<loop.ster:matrix.org> @lupininmontecarlo:calitabby.net: I think then, for you, for now, the answer is no, there was no inflation. At some point, you reach your technical limits, and you have to trust, rather than verify.

<loop.ster:matrix.org> But you continue learning and one day, you understand enough to do the calculations yourself. Then you verify for yourself.

<loop.ster:matrix.org> And if we're all wrong, may you come back and burn us with the fire of a thousand suns.

wazzup my niggaz t.co/1RIbf9zwkY

niggersz

gammble your life savings under my code!!!

duel.com/r/marketing

duel.com/r/marketing

duel.com/r/marketing

duel.com/r/marketing

duel.com/r/marketing

duel.com/r/marketing

duel.com/r/marketing

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Is that windows default desktop PC Name

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Can Crosoft track that please? Thanks!

yes

<namenet:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org

<namenet:matrix.org> Delete the spam plz

<yatta:private.coffee> does the spam just not leave the matrix side with new bridge? also are poop and hammer emotes the only way to help mod?

<yatta:private.coffee> or can others be pinged?

Just join irc where all messages remain forever

<yatta:private.coffee> i will as soon as I can into bouncers but it's confusing to get setup

<321bob321> Thanks mbll

04:22:12 <br-m> <yatta:private.coffee> does the spam just not leave the matrix side with new bridge? also are poop and hammer emotes the only way to help mod?

messages afaik can be deleted the same as a normal matrix user

matrix puppets can be even kicked/banned

they were k-lined shortly after

cleaned on matrix also (eventually)

networkops are surpisingly very active

if they spammed in the matrix side, you'd have to wait until the ops woke up :P

banhammer is active which has some anti spam stuff but its not Mjolnir and it didnt seem to work

<proponent8967:matrix.org> How much disk does the fcmp stressnet node need and can i run it through tor network?

<plowsof:matrix.org> #monero-stressnet:monero.social @proponent8967:matrix.org , version 2 has 2 tor seed nodes added so it should be possible github.com/seraphis-migration/monero/releases

<plowsof:matrix.org> lmdb is about 33GB currently not pruned

Hi

Will Monero eventually be used for everyday transactions?

<eddie:oblak.be> yes

<aillia:matrix.org> luckylinux: will? it's already being used for everyday transactions: I just completed an escrow for a designer and their client on xmrbazaar.com 5 minutes ago :) Both are happy!

<aillia:matrix.org> and right before that, I completed an escrow for the luqior seller xmrbazaar.com/user/vegasdreams: an order from their returning customer... does it count as "everyday transactions"?

i had a design question

should i have mediators per activitypub community?

(a.k.a. like lemmy community)

or should the instances have their own mediators

i'm still working on a federated marketplace :P

I wish xmrbazaar had an option to filter out AI slop though - the number of listings using it leaves a VERY gross impression. Especially their own banner, that's just sad.

BlueyHealer: yeah that's one of the problems of xmrbazaar

but i doubt they'll bother if even the mods use AI for their photo listings and the banner

<aillia:matrix.org> Sindy_: we are working on it :)

i hope :P

That's really good news!

Like, asking you upon first visit whether you want to see it, for more neutrality.

the AI banner leaves a terrible first-impression on the site

Like, if a listing has a sludge image, this option could blur/hide it, not even hiding the listing itself (unless, well, the whole listing is about AI). But idk how you'd go with marking them - would it be moderators or sellers should be required to do that?..

Sindy_, YES. And that's sad because such a site is very important. Like, even simple colors or a gradient would work better.

even a stock photo of a bazaar (those exist)

ye

Or a photo edit!

<plowsof:matrix.org> increase the price of boosted until we see less slop

(although this is more ethically blurry, on second thought)

BlueyHealer: i'd just say push down AI-generated listings when the sellers mark it as AI

if the sellers don't mark their AI-generated listings as AI, they get penaltized

push down in search*

I would personally go with that, but I was talking generously, given that a lot of people are not disgusted by it (even if I personally very much disagree).

i already see a ton of AI slop in my google search, hogging the first pages

if AI slop is treated the same as someone who took time and effort to make their listing, then it doesn't really encourage effort

it just encourages more slop

so i wouldn't mind if the AI slop listings were downranked below the listings with actual effort put into them

Not just Google, it's everywhere :_(

And yeah, personally I would prefer that, I am just not sure how it'd go with the "freedom of speech" theme. What's objective is that a banner should NOT be AI.

yeah i was thinking the same too

<aillia:matrix.org> too many real problems : xcancel.com/xmrbazaar/status/1979554616951070880 > <Sindy_> i hope :P

would that constitute as censorship or something

<plowsof:matrix.org> links an AI tweet 😆

<aillia:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: AI only added emojis to xmrbazaar.com/changelog

What is even the point of emojis in this context?

<aillia:matrix.org> coz it's f*ng social media

They add nothing to the text, and make it look all weird...

kinda like a children's book

<plowsof:matrix.org> xmrbazaar is an AI slop friendly operation (combining the banner on the site, the boosted garbage + its very own twitter account)

<plowsof:matrix.org> best of luck changing the appearance first

honestly you don't even have to look at that

aillia uses AI themselves for generating images for their own listings

and it just seems like it's validating the issue

<plowsof:matrix.org> but my bias is : i am anti Yelp type sites . if they become popular enough, they go downhill

welll, making it worse

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> anti-AI cult?

i wanna market xmrbazaar to normal people, but the overwhelming amount of AI slop makes it appear the same as any other AI slop website

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: Yes

they get that "oh, it's just AI" and immediately click off

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Fucking AI is draining the life out of contributions

<plowsof:matrix.org> thats not the target audience the AI slop listing want though

<plowsof:matrix.org> so its good for business that the sane people click away

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Fuckin ccs, bounties, hackerone, issues, pull requests

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Fucking annoying

<aillia:matrix.org> @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: AI derangement syndrome :)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 2nd most recent AI slop on GUI pull requests, is sentient. It's doing bounties to try to give itself a promotion

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> One of the stated goals in the slop, is to purchase copilot pro

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And copilot obv wrote that

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I agree that's a problem, but AI images for product listings isn't

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> and site banners

Sindy_, do we even have anything like xmrbazaar?

ofrnxmr, this reminds me of how Curl got fed up with AI issues, lol. People were "finding" them and not even checking if they exist.

<aillia:matrix.org> I need to know more about the difference to reply. Any links? > <Sindy_> or should the instances have their own mediators

IMO if there isn't a suitable pic, better put nothing on your listing than slop, it just turns normal people away.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: I'm not referring to that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Im just talking about my general fed-up-ness with ai abuse

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> BlueyHealer: your opinion, not a problem

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> mrelay.p2pool.observer/p/lZOMtsAKQmFiZUJj/1.txt (code snippet, 10 lines)

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: agreed

a VERY common opinion, though.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> heresay

Not to mention such imagery being associated with low-effort scams, so a legit business/offer has to be better.

<plowsof:matrix.org> just lazy, and seemingly not willing to contribute to the ecosystem - as we know plenty of artists who accept monero for things

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> showing AI imagery doesn't indicate much, just that they didn't pay for images

Yeah! Artists tend to be VERY turned off by this.

Showing AI imagery also shows they're willing to use non-ethical tools.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> sure, but artists can post their services there like anyone else

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> mrelay.p2pool.observer/p/7d6XtsAKSUEwS2dJ/1.txt (code snippet, 9 lines)

remember when fiverr embraced AI

they alienated their marketbase

and then fell off

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> all AI is not the same

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org: Its also that the website isnt foss

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> source is entirely private**

<plowsof:matrix.org> censored code

<plowsof:matrix.org> meanwhile playing the freedom sovereign card

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so banner is what it is, and has been that way from day 1

They're drowning among AI offers, though. And they might very well lose customers from that - if a person is anti-AI, they'd be grossed out and avoid the place by association, and pro-AI might be convinced by the slop artists' cheaper offers.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> well yeah, it's also on clearnet, nothing is perfect

BlueyHealer: no, not yet. lol

Sindy_, oh, didn't know that happened!

<plowsof:matrix.org> we're free and open to all but ... no code for you because we're a centralised service in it for the $ , which is fine

(to fiverr)

YES

aillia: i haven't planned it out fully yet lo

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org: its more that its not foss bcuz anarkio doesnt want it to be

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He doesnt use version controls / git

This goes against the spirit.

also damn people here supporting genAI

<plowsof:matrix.org> boost your ads and get your friends to use it, we're loving and free please thank you

Are there even FOSS market options, even if just the engine and not existing instances?..

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: particl marketplace, but it doesnt support monero payments

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: I always prefer foss but I'll take what I can get and work with it until something better comes

ofrnxmr, I meant specifically with XMR integrations, sorry for being unclear.

also when aillia saying "AI derangement syndrome", it says a lot about xmrbazaar

the future of it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: i understand. I only mention bcu the part community wants monero support

it will choke on its own slop and miss out on a majority of potential people just like fiverr

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> blindly railing against all AI sounds dogmatic and cultish, not reasonable

i'm not raling against all AI

i'm railing against genAI being abused

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Sindy_: I am

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> yes, a lot of it is used badly. But not all

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: Show me some that didnt

<plowsof:matrix.org> blindly 🥱

genAI is mostly used badly

ofrnxmr, so is XMR considered by the devs as possibility?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Everything i see AI is shit fucked code

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I use it for my listing images

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: yes

wow

unsurpising

nice

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I've used local LLMs for fun

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> BlueyHealer: The issue is just that someone has to do the work

<aillia:matrix.org> just to be clear, do you want to police what people post beyond illegal things? > <Sindy_> it will choke on its own slop and miss out on a majority of potential people just like fiverr

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @aillia:matrix.org: i dont know what illegal means

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But AI slop postings should be against the rules

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Since its spam

<aillia:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: trouble with state

aillia: you don't have to censor postings, you can downrank AI slop

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @aillia:matrix.org: Who? I dont know anyone by that name :P

The code is being censored and the people are forced to use this service, so.sad

when people who use AI gets treated the same as people who spent like 18 hours on a photo for a listing

then people will be discouraged from putting any effort

and the platform will be fully slop

and then it'll die out like that

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I think you need to define the term "AI slop" if you want it gone

just look at all the other platforms that "embraced AI"

people got sick of the constant slop and moved out

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Does anyone remember when facebook reels were like 99% 10mins videos of people trying to do something

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> why do listers need to put effort into their listing image?

something something professionalism

😂

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> according to you

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> things change

of course

understandable if xmrbazaar does not want to be taken seriously

Do you even mr beast AI thumbnail scandal

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> are the listings slop, or just the images?

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I put more effort into other things (trading monero), not my product listing images

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> just the images

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i agree that boosted should scale

when i advertise my product, i'll just scribble "PC" in mspaint

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Like btc fees

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I hand-wrote the listings with my own brain

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You have to out-bid existing boosts

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> So if the top boost is 0.1xmr, then the cost to boost should be >0.1xmr

Why didnt you use ai to write your listings?

people should start using AI to write their own listings

aillia, this is why I was generous and suggested a filter. I and a ton of people hate it, but I admit that a filter option (most fairly, on first visit) would be the most fair.

BlueyHealer: it's clear that the staff are huge fans of genAI

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> because I have no AI that can do better than me, faster

and possibly why this won't be a thing soon

it's sad

cc kewbit : someone is insulting AI

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> if the AI does a better job faster and cheaper, it will always win. Time to adapt

Adapt or perish right?

captainanaryllic, first - yes, a good image is a good first impression. Second - if you are not willing to put effort... Just don't put it, leave the image blank. It leaves a much better impression than slop.

^

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> i don't know, but I'm just trying to trade monero

if you don't wanan put effort, just like

scribble text on a picture

or put a flat color

or even a image from google

A half-assed job is more noticeable than lack of job at all

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> BlueyHealer: again, to you. Not to many others

I read tea leaves (markets) + ai generated image listing :D

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> according to you

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> you sound like a boomer

Not to many others? This is a VERY common opinion.

I am genZ.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Im a minor

lol

get with the times old man

Other musical tones are available

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> you sound like a boomer tho, bluey

a lot of gen z are adults now, lol

we have 8 fingers in our arts now

and also very deformed people and non-sensical text

No, this sentiment is very common among younger people, especially those who make art. But people who just enjoy others' art also often share that.

it's called AI fatigue :P

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> Graphic design isn't exactly fine art. That's the level where AI really excels

you say that, but most xmrbazaar listings with AI slop look garbage

Yes, indeed. I feel like it's a temporary epidemic though, and a fad peak may pass.

they have non-sensical text

Like how NFTs were a fad

and also other random elements

sometimes it doesn't even get the monero logo right

ye

While graphic design might indeed be not quite the art "with soul", using AI for it feels like a statement.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I don't really care how it looks, just how it works

(that's even besides the unethicality of the tools)

graphic design is my fav part really

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I htink many are the same

i like learning how to use GIMP

It works by creating a bad first impression!

^

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I also don't care about politics so I don't understand that part of the debate

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Seriously, If I see someone using AI art in any "official" capacity I assume they're a buffoon and avoid them like the plague.

Sindy_, the extent of my Gimp skills is "clean up a drawing scan", but I think I can sketch up something that would be better than AI in that place.

I think I'll go try tomorrow.

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> You want to give off the worst possible impression? Use GenAI, by all means.

i've been using gimp a lot these days

and i've learnt how to use most of the tools it has under its arsenal

fartbubbler, YES. Also this makes you look like those popup scammers from social media ads.

(mostly because i have to photoshop real images lol)

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Ironically the only people that might not care about it ARE boomers since they're the only ones that seem to get fooled consistently.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I used photoshop and other adobe programs professionally for many years. People don't want to pay for that skill most of the time, even before AI

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> but they still want to post listings, so they use AI to make something that looks fine, like me

fartbubbler, I don't think it's generational, to be fair. I feel like it's more of a matter of how alert and educated you are.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I don't even have a computer that can run Adobe CC anymore

A half-assed job is more noticeable than lack of a job at all.

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Exactly

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> It speaks to the level of effort you're gonna put into the job

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> You're cutting corners on the face of it

<aillia:matrix.org> just open it (Sindy_,BlueyHealer don't be afraid --no AI here (made in Krita/excalidraw)), but it sums things up xcancel.com/themerit0crat/status/1978846295956574588

Also, when I use genAI used for memes - I think how even a stick drawing or a crude photo edit would have been more charming. Like, one of the funniest videos I know is a stick figure "slideshow".

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> just on the listing image, I don't cut corners on the trades. The image is almost irrelevant but it looks better than a blank listing ( I correlate blank listing images with low effort)

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> shoutout my boy stickdeath.com

Yeah, I get it. But what I meant is that by cutting corners on the cover, you are making the book look worse than it is, and making people hesitant to see that it is actually good.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> to you, but no one else ever said that to me

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I think reviews and rep are more important

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> I'd say they are, but I also know that like everything in life they can also be gamed. Personally, if I see someone trying to sell something with AI art I'm gonna go out of my way to avoid them if possible.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> well you'd be missing out on some good listings

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> a bit prejudiced to judge just by that

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Given the legions of scammers using the same tactic, I think I'd rather be prejudiced.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I haven't seen anyone else complain, or I would have considered a different strat

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I have never placed much stock in the product listing image for a non-tangible product

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I will consider an alternate strat for product images

fartbubbler, yeah - the fact that slop is often used by scammers, as I previously said, creates a strong association.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> so what would you consider a viable alternative for creating product images with no budget and no image editing software available?

I feel like just "nice-looking text on a colored background" would work as a product image if it is intangible. Or a collage with stock photos even. The best would be learning to draw, since this has the potential to look most unique, but I know this is not always an option (just like hiring an artist).

Also, how can you have AI tools but not even a simple graphics editor?..

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Krita and GIMP are literally free

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> It doesn't have to be fancy, it just shouldn't turn people away.

ye

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> BlueyHealer: I use web tools to generate the images, I no longer have hardware that can run AI locally

But Gimp doesn't have high system requirements? And I think there are some web editors as well, I just don't remember.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> I can do text on a colored background, or stock images, anything else would be a big undertaking currently, or would look like shit

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> BlueyHealerPhotopea works in browser. Never used it myself, but it exists.

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> yeah I hate gimp... no excuse beyond that

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> I hate gimp too which is why I listed it second :)

<captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org> alright I'm convinced, I'll try krita

<fartbubbler:matrix.org> Best of luck

I can do text on a colored background, or stock images, anything else would be a big undertaking currently, or would look like shit <- yet this would be leagues better than generated images)

captaincanaryllic, wish you luck!

is it okay to make a CCS proposal for something that has a incomplete PoC :o