<matric3:matrix.org> Is there a way to purchase Monero without having to give KYC? Seems like everywhere I go, every market and exchange I go to to buy Monero requires too much KYC. I would prefer an app on my phone if possible. I've seen a few exchanges that require you to download their app on your computer, but is there anything that's meant for a phone running Graphene OS.

<matric3:matrix.org> Also, if I were to start mining it, would that require any KYC to mine the coins and stack them that way?

<shuroii:matrix.org> @matric3:matrix.org: Haveno and an atomic swap provider would probably be your best bet. No idea about running it on a phone though.

<shuroii:matrix.org> @matric3:matrix.org: Mining doesn't require KYC, as there is no customer.

<shuroii:matrix.org> Exchanging them for something else might result in being met with a lot of KYC tape though, but there's ways around that if you're clever.

<matric3:matrix.org> Great! Thank you! I will have a look at haveno

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> #haveno.exchange:monero.social www.retoswap.com

<matric3:matrix.org> Yeah, it's just like all the other, no KYC exchanges I've found, haveno requires either Windows, Linux, or Mac to install. I'm looking for something to install in Graphene OS. Does anybody have any ideas? Are there any atomic swap apps available in Graphene OS?

<banevading:matrix.org> github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app/releases

<banevading:matrix.org> for graphene

<matric3:matrix.org> Thank you banevading! I will try it out

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> you ahould technically be able to run atomic swaps on mobile, but not available as an app

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno is p2p swaps, not atomic. But iirc, that app also runs haveno locally in the terminal.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> theres a remote node version here

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-remote-node

see how they like you plowsof > banevading:matrix.org

"30 day ban for kitty, (aka anyone who says "smh" and "shits" and spams public rooms with drivel like theyre having a private conversation with their bud)"

still does drive by fun

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> These llm trash prs are on fire today

where?

ah, I see a couple that just ... add random comments and rewrite code

and removes license headers, surely this is now expected for all AI generation

> * * Optimizations by "The World's Smartest Coder":

> # ... (License header kept intact) ...

(it was not kept intact)

DataHoarder: "world's smartest coder

uses AI

we are cooked

<321bob321> this one > <DataHoarder> also supports txkey + multiple addresses blocks.p2pool.observer/tx/834a724fe…address=43jMNkyW3jPGqLKQakz4Bn4bF81

<matrixuser2175:matrix.org> all hail monero chan

<321bob321> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/vxoythyQDnMsheGJmPjTKYYv.png (cloudflare.png)

<gingeropolous> goddamn ram costing as much as cpus these dayus

from where can I buy some monero with fiat? why has it gotten so hard

<quadriocellata:matrix.org> laris: hard bc monero works so its restricted. depending where you are direct with fiat would be difficult. something like retoswap or xmrbazaar may allow you p2p w fiat. Alternatively use any CEX to get a crypto e.g. LTC and swap for XMR somewhere like trocador.app

thanks

Thanks 321bob321 now that's fucked and thy are breaking caching

guardarian was nice

it's called RUM Preferences, great

irc.gammaspectra.live/48958080262b6db2/image.png

<sgp_> reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1p5kqz…ing_skylight_wallet_a_modern_monero

Laris: last time I tried, kraken was working for buying monero with fiat

Not in every country, though?

yeah

for example, kraken in the EU no longer lists monero

due to.. *cough cough*

CERTAIN regulations

it is crazy they unlist it when you think that it is the only crypto that can actually act as a **currency**

...or a mixer for other cryptos, for when it isn't accepted. Which is sadly too common.

TBH I didn't remember whether it was the EU or the US that unlisted it - I just remember it happening and being a big deal.

<albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> The EU doesn't have XMR for fiat in any CEX I checked (which is Coinbase, KuCoin (only one I could buy from before they stopped serving my country), Kraken)

Once you have one crypto, though, others are not a problem at all. I'd be more concerned about merchants and the swappers themselves when it comes to delistings.

I don't really know which exactly the good automatic swappers are, but from what I've read, they're very accessible.

BlueyHealer: it's the EU

it's apart of their plan to completely ban monero (and other privacy coins) by 2027

<hbs:matrix.org> Cindy: You're reading the regulations incorrectly, only regulated exchanges are concerned by the prohibition of privacy coins, individuals are free to use them as they see fit

Prohibiting its use by individuals seems unfeasible anyway.

However, I did hear they're also planning to ban merchants from accepting anonymous currencies without KYC.

^

<icarolongo> Free Software Foundation and the GNU Project now accepts Monero (XMR):

<icarolongo> fsf.org/about/ways-to-donate

great, now we just need to convince wikipedia to accept monero (again)

NOICE

<rbrunner7> Cool.

i cant see xmr @ gnu project

Check, Bitcoin or Litecoin

<icarolongo> "Other ways to give"

there is no checkbox for that :P

go email them

<icarolongo> "About the FSF | Renew an existing membership | Other ways to give"

ah, thx

<icarolongo> fsf.org/about/ways-to-donate

This address is valid until December 2026.

XMR Ceo only has contract till then

bad deal

:P

By donating your frequent-flyer miles to the FSF

hahaha

thats the funniest "ways to donate" page i've ever seen :D

By donating your car to the FSF.

<victor5577:matrix.org> Guys I need 100 monero

why are there more trolls on matrix than IRC

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Don't you need an email to register on IRC with Libera?

literally anyone can join this channel without registering

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Meaning you need an email to join monero rooms with IRC. While on Matrix it depend of the HS...

it's not +r or +R

<shitpost1337:matrix.org> no registration needed

you WOULD need an account if this channel were +r/+R

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Oh, No registration needed, I was sure it needed it (maybe it was for spam control back >1 years ago

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Or it was for offtopic

some channels have +r/+R on

which will require you to be logged-in to either talk or even join the channel

and they can turn it off at anytime

<ravfx:xmr.mx> So to be able to access all monero rooms on IRC you need to be logged-in (email required), while for matrix you can find an home server that don't ask

no

none of the monero rooms are +r/+R

as of right now

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Because they want to use tor and dont have time for libera shenanigans, also because they arent boomers and have never heard of irc > <Cindy> why are there more trolls on matrix than IRC

<ravfx:xmr.mx> ok, good to know.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> So my rememberance of it is probably outdated lol

ofrnxmr: most of what libera does in that depertment is due to spam control

not only do they allow tor usage if you have an account (and use public key auth)

they also ban most VPNs/proxies

but not mullvad or any of the paid ones

they intentionally put in some holes because they knew most trolls would go for the easy (& free) way

and very little would actually go out of their way to register an account, or pay for mullvad to troll people on libera

<albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> mullvad is really cheap though, so people that really want to troll are just a few bucks away from trolling

but very rarely do they actually take that path

<ravfx:xmr.mx> One can just get a ceap VPS with a lot of IPV6 and rotate

<ravfx:xmr.mx> s/ceap/cheap/g

ravfx: libera ops can block an entire range or subnet

<shitpost1337:matrix.org> even residential proxies, you can get 1 GB of data for less than $5, imagine how long does that last on an IRC...

now, this isn't to say, there AREN'T trolls that are so dedicated that they are willing to pay the price for it

but those kinds of trolls are like.. once in a blue moon

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> We should allow people to pay to get out of jail

they do their crap for a few minutes

and then they never do it again

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Time solves nothing

ofrnxmr: we should have people mine a share in p2pool mini

to get access to the room

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thats like 1 cent

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Useless

<albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> A good night of sleep is (usually) a good way to ponder, so imagine 1825 nights to ponder

<shitpost1337:matrix.org> mine 1 entire block for unban

but it could work as a PoW challenge lol

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @shitpost1337:matrix.org: 🤣. Thats cruel and unusual punishment

one block is too much

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Can rent some hashrate

that's super dumb

<ravfx:xmr.mx> expensive yeah

so more money than if you mined yourself

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 0.01xmr for unban AFTER time served -> 0.1xmr for early unban (min 24hrs) -> 1xmr if you get banned again within 30days

considering matrix, they'll just make a new account on another homeserver

than pay 0.01 xmr

19:38:07 <+br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Oh, No registration needed, I was sure it needed it (maybe it was for spam control back >1 years ago

afaik it has been enabled when spam becomes an issue. but usually it's IRC-wide spam, not monero specific

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and then get banned "asap"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And jumps to 0.1xmr

asap.. LOOOOL

more like

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I used quotes for a reason

just have federated accounts pass via a containment aging process

that way they need to age accounts and it's not wack-a-mole for 4h until they bore themselves

ban the chain, existing users unaffected

DataHoarder: how do you determine the age of the accounts

monero.social knows when they tried to join

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> theys just farm accounts > <DataHoarder> just have federated accounts pass via a containment aging process

^

it's federation

they'll just put sleeper agent lurkers in the room

yes, they will farm them, but then those are stopped way easier ahead of time

for a month

like they already do that, but those usually get dealt with via the original instances

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I probably have 10-15 aged accounts that im willing to sell to the highest bidder @ocean:nope.chat /s

it cleans up drive-by and requires them do actual effort :P

and that effort can disappear with "ok all aged accounts have timers reset" when we have issues

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (ocean tagged bcuz they accused me of having a bunch of alts)

all recently*

this is doable with policy servers, afaik

i wonder why monero uses matrix

<albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> "Decentralization" I think

matrix is so horribly designed and overengineered

yeah quotes are important there

it is terrible in term of design, but is there alternatives?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Because its easier to sign up "privately"

^ and VC funded mainly, and removes support for non-$ parts

i had to ask mods in 2 different rooms to kick me and invite me back

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero doesnt uae matrix, it uses irc

TWICE, this month

why not run our own IRC servers :)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> None of the matrix rooms are adminmed by core

<gan:skhron.org> It's a certainly trade-off, DHT-based and truly decentralized chats are too slow for the average > <Cindy> i wonder why monero uses matrix

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Core runs the irc namespace

jah: for real, XMPP

XMPP has better design for rooms than matrix

Cindy: true, and sadly so much underated

sync errors don't exist in XMPP rooms, which means you don't have to ask mods to kick you and invite you back

once in a week

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Example: why do i use matrix instead of irc? Because im on mobile

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: You're comparing a fox with an elephant

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Using irc from mobile is essentially an effort in futility

<gan:skhron.org> XMPP is for the most part is stateless, while Matrix have state-based

ofrnxmr: I disagree, if you have a bouncer it is fine to use on mobile

not if we run our own servers, ofrnxmr

doesn't that make it better?,

<gan:skhron.org> is state-based*

then that can have the history and fast join exts enabled

it's stateless for a reason, makes for less sync errors

the-lounge lets you install it as an app, which is just a full screen browser

ofrnxmr: but you have a point, that requiere complex setup

meaning you lose nothing even when reconnecting

whenever there's a state-based design, it's centralized under one serve

for non-bouncer users

liek how rooms are centralized under their own MUC server

ah yes, 'run your own server' in the small print lol

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: as you can see, it's not really true

I keep hope that one day, matrix design will be improved and implementation will be mature... but oh well, this is taking time

well, matrix is also "run your own server" in the small print

<gan:skhron.org> but it's surely a pattern that we see with USENet, Email and so on

<gan:skhron.org> Contextually Jabber wasn't too different back in the day

XMPP was carefully designed, battle-tested, and standardized. matrix is just VC-funded thrown together webslop

<gan:skhron.org> when it was sucking off Google and WhatsApp

I do run my own matrix homeserver, and have an IRC bridge on it for connecting to IRC channels.

which is why you see more chat services building on top of XMPP

AlbertLarsan68: how much disk space does your homeserver requiere?

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: not really true, I rarely see XMPP being used for anything new

gan: not just google and whatsapp, also video games and nintendo switch notification service

a lot of things behind the scenes use XMPP, well specifically ejabberd

because it's pretty scalable

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: Google was the biggest Jabber provider

a lot of things still use XMPP in the background

just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not used

<gan:skhron.org> it'd just end up in the simllar way as email did with Gmail

it's literally the best messaging protocol for multiple users/devices, for various usecases

even stuff that aren't just chat, just IoT devices communicating with each other

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: again, it's openly not used, since text-oriented protocols by their nature is a waste of resources

jah: 11 GB of database, with a whole bunch of bridges to a lot of services (and also non-matrix data in there). About 8 GB of (local) media

lol

<gan:skhron.org> it's commonly some combination of protobuf and so on

AlbertLarsan68: no way, 11 GB?

yeah that is insane

my prosody installation barely gone over a few megabytes

<gan:skhron.org> Average Synapse usage 🧌

is this what matrix operators have to deal with

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Matrix.org's is some many TBs

<gan:skhron.org> also you could vacuum your database

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> xmr.mx pruned data older than 30days

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Prunes

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: No, Synapse isn't the only server implementation

well I'm sure 11GB is with pruned data older than 30days

in my opinion, matrix is garbage

<gan:skhron.org> and retention policies are also a thing

still, we are talking 11GB with retention policies in place, very likely

Cindy: anything BUT synapse for small servers, synapse is monster

and now the rewrite is sold for $$$ enterprise

and not in the open

I tried running synapse, and tuning all the things you mentioned, it was still terrible

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: Any federation-based protocol is, XMPP isn't that better

maybe that lighter rust server is better, but I feel like it's fundamental to the design

like you keep media for the other federations in your cache

Nah, 11 GB is usage since a few month, with *many* channels being really active but non-federated (Discord bridges, etc)

<gan:skhron.org> Personally, I use continuwuity

also i like how XSF stopped themselves from hosting the *official* XMPP server

With Synapse

and instead encouraged people to host their own

it stopped server monopoly...... unlike what exists in matrix

<gan:skhron.org> jah: that's normal if you don't want for your IP to be grabbed

gan: continuwuity, that is the fork of the previous uwu until maintainer left right?

<gan:skhron.org> and remote media could be purged too

that's what I ran for bridge testing :D

painless tbh

<gan:skhron.org> DataHoarder: yup

gan: I would like if I could **not** bridge media at all

CP spammers take advantage of the fact that all matrix servers have to bridge media

their illegal material literally spreads to other servers without consent

anyway, I hear you, maybe I should give an other try, but last time, just joining an active channel (like the synapse one), was totally flooding my storage

yeah I would not be surprised if AlbertLarsan68's hardware have some CSAM without knowing it

</rant>

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: not illegal per Section 230, same goes for majority of European countries

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> you should see how bad git is

Nah, I clean the remote storage a bunch, and I am the only user of my homeserver

gan: nobody wants to filter through tons of illegal material in their hard drive

or even try to come up with an excuse for why it's there

nobody wants the liability

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "your honor, i don't know how it got there"

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: You don't have to? old media could be purged

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: then don't run a server

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Meanwhile, someone running w btc node somewhere is storing cp

<gan:skhron.org> It's a common issues that exists on all internet services

<gan:skhron.org> not really, related to matrix at all

imagine the feds upload a CP in one of the rooms you're in

to plant evidence

<gan:skhron.org> that's schizotalk at this point

<milas900:matrix.org> Thinking to create a game how to use monero . Any ideas ?

<gan:skhron.org> and no, that's entrapment then

gan: you're thinking in first-world basis

entrapment is handled in court case

third-world authorities will not care

not for getting the initial hit on you

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: I don't live in first world

<gan:skhron.org> You could store CSAM in MAM on XMPP, and?

<gan:skhron.org> does it matter

<gan:skhron.org> I'd say not

in XMPP, it's just a link

and MAM histories can be tombstoned

the material does not spread to others

just use yEnc a-la usenet en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YEnc

it remains in the server that the user uploaded to

A vacuum made the DB take only 9.5 GB

for 1552350 events

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: I would recommend to read XEP-0313

you can't store files in MAM

it's just text

So around 6 kB/event, but also consider that I have over 23k users (most of which are puppet accounts for the bridges)

when you do a file upload in XMPP, it uploads to your server, and then your client posts the link that your server gives you

so instead of spreading the liability to everyone else, it's isolated within the bad actor's server

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: I'm aware, by that logic, you could store content on a S3 server on Matrix

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: To note, there's absolutely zero liability, if the server is bought/rented anonymously 🧌

<gan:skhron.org> Either way, there's zero cases of arrests for UGC in context of reasonably moderated services as well

"reasonably moderated services" is the point

your homeserver you setup a year ago could be gathering dust and be used for abuse

directly or indirectly

<gan:skhron.org> then it's on them

that's a shit setup then, specially when you joining a room suddenly makes you liable

and with redaction you don't even know where the media is at

^

<gan:skhron.org> DataHoarder: Again, it's doesn't makes the operator liable for anything

Create a cronjob to clear remote media on a timer

same issue with mastodon

it grabs all media locally :P

instead of only proxying it

<gan:skhron.org> It's the same issue for any internet service with UGC

<gan:skhron.org> you just haven't seen CSAM attacks on forums

<videogaming:matrix.org> good to know that having my actual main mail address for administrative things (under my full name) is now getting closed

<videogaming:matrix.org> and that you're dancing on that grave, that's some cool shits in the monero community lol

<videogaming:matrix.org> right now it's my streaming/gaming mail address, which am down to get it closed too, it's whatever at this point, it's less valuable to me than the other one anyways

<videogaming:matrix.org> but i hope that doxxing myself proved the point of the rot that been around in the community

<videogaming:matrix.org> yall have a good one, and stay safe[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/1srdhswKX3VrWGJ0 ]

<datahoarder> also here plowsof

<gan:skhron.org> I have to note that even possession of CSAM in the cache of a browser doesn't lead to anything as well

<gan:skhron.org> you can even find a NYC case which was dismissed because of it

yeah, but it ends up in courts

yes, people usually want to avoid getting sued over it in the first place

why would you need to retain a lawyer for hosting a matrix server

<gan:skhron.org> they shouldn't run public services then

<gan:skhron.org> as for Matrix, it's not a concern at all, nobody fucking cares

I though the caching was an issue for Freenet

<gan:skhron.org> Cindy: You could be placed under the watchful eye for having large presence of drugs-related discussion, even on XMPP - I reckon, CSAM isn't the only thing that might get you into the trouble

is it possible to transfer money from an offline "cold wallet"? using a usb stick to move some sort of receipt to an online machine

<endor00:matrix.org> Yes

<eddie:oblak.be> puffybuf: You sign the transaction offline with your private key, and export the transaction as a file . Save that file to USB, and transfer to online machine. Broadcast the transaction. There are online guides on how to do this. This is for electrum (bitcoin), but the principle is the same for monero: electrum.readthedocs.io/en/latest/coldstorage.html

<ofrnxmr> docs.getmonero.org/cold-storage/offline-transaction-signing

<jueyy:matrix.org> Sorry new here is there somewhere to.buy monero with fiat p2p