you can still do this in P2P exchanges

it's that, i doubt anyone will take you

from how risky in nature it is

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> good points all around. but what if there was a way to give the code to the p2p exchange first. is there a way for them to verify if has been used yet? if so, then maybe that could work like an escrow system.

only if someone is daring

no, there's no way to verify if it's been used

once you share it, how do you prevent them from spending it

and saying it was used

unless you mail the gift card to them, without ever scratching it off

and you might as well mail cash then

they can always lie and say it showed up scratched off

plus what if the giftcard was purchased with fraudulent funds like a stolen CC

and then it's revocked a few weeks later by the victim

that's even worse

just stick to irreversible transaction methods when buying or selling crypto

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: ok. I didnt' think about that actually.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> so if the fcmp transactions are 7.2 kb and the block size is still at 300 then it's cooked in terms of tps right? <<>> the non penalty block size will increase with FCMP++ but I forget the exact #

you're asking for no-KYC (so anyone can spin up new accounts) and a high fraud rate (giftcards)

bad idea

we've had someone here who asked if they could do CCs in P2P

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nioc: 625kb

meow

and stated that they owned the card (yeah right)

Cindy: you can, but they usually have high af fees

and force every protection like 3ds etc

that was super suspicious

2fa codes to the phone number etc

to prevent stolen CCs

also this guy said he had an american credit card

but sometimes spoke russian

i was thinking he just stole a credit card

yea, just move on

Cindy: we have russians here, we have everybody here

some users are bilingual

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> will cake wallet (or some other service) let you buy some other altcoins from them directly with a prepaid card? then just swap to XMR?

I wouldn't instantly attribute a subset of languages to fraud

some humans even lurk here

meow

just use a KYC creditcard > BTC , then a noKYC btc > xmr

anything else is dumber and risky

BoBeR182: your exchange account will get frozen

wut?

move the BTC to your phone frist

then move to over P2P to someone else

how will that freeze your exchange account

even if that person uses the BTC on a honeypot darknetmarket

they can freeze you from ever buying BTC :P

it's 2 + hopes away from you

why would a KYC stop your from buying BTC?

that's literally how they make their money

CEXs like to track down where you send your BTC to

and when it ends up

if it ends up something bad, you get incriminated

but any BTC can do that

exactly

they clearly accept the risk

you don't heard normie users having exchanges frozen from normal transactions

so why would yours be any different

you bought BTC with a credit card, moved it to a personal wallet, then moved it to a p2p exchange

you could even move it to another CEX and buy XMR directly

then move the XMR to a phone wallet

and trail is gone

just don't do XMR > illegal service

just don't do CEX XMR wallet > illegal service wallet

👮 illegal service sir? no thank you

if you're trying to avoid the risk of someone else illegal activities tainting yoru coins, just bump to your own wallet first to "clean" or deattach them from previous history

XMR is great for that

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> because the BTC blockchain is transparent. chain analysis would be able to determine where the BTC is going (to be swapped for XMR) even if its a few hops. if a user does this over and over, it might come off as suspicious. thats probably when the kyc account gets flagged/frozen. > <BoBeR182> how will that freeze your exchange account

buying XMR isn't illegal?

unless it is in your juristriction then you have other issues like talking in a #monero channel

most CEX even allow buying XMR directly

just do that?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Buying xmr isnt the problem

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Its depositing no-kyc btc, mixed, dirty, tainted, racist, terrorist btc

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: sure, some CEXs allow this. but i've always wondered: wouldn't this make you suspicious to the government from the beginning? if you use a CEX KYC exchange and buy XMR directly. now the government knows you have XMR. regardless of whatever your plans are with it, they KNOW you have it. i feel like even that is a risk.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> exchanges that deal in surveillance blockchains, are often mandated to perform dragnet surveillance on the coins that you deposit or withdraw

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @cranial_luminance:matrix.org: Who cares? Im allowed to have xmr, gold, silver, a per rock collection, or whatever i feel like

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What im not allowed to do, is be in posession of stolen goods (tainted btc)

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> "Who cares?" is a fair question. but lets be honest with ourselves here: 1. the government probably does care, even if they don't admit it, and we should assume they do care. 2. if we had the choice between buying XMR directly from a KYC CEX or getting as anonymously as possible to where not even the government knows we have i [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/hNP8tt8KZkhrd3A4 ]

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> just throwing ideas out there

ofrnxmr: "Who cares?" the EU certainly does care

2027 2027 2027 2027

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> the gov doesn't care about you buying, it cares about you selling

no it cares about both

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: for now. but remember: laws change

you talk about "the govt" as it was one entity

the US government might care under one department the IRS

but if you are using you wageslave job to fund buying XMR, and never bring XMR into your CEX and trade for fiat

there's no reason to think you are running a business and evading taxes

the FBI/etc might care about your XMR if you buy lots and are associated with drug dealing

the EU cares now

but generally speaking investing in crypto both private and nonprivacy isn't illegal

they are planning to ban anyone from accepting anonymity-preserving coins

as long as you pay any capital gains or business income tax on it

which includes monero

Cindy: plan to, and have banned isn't the same

why am i seing planning

saying*

still multiple governments exists that have to work with multiple CEXs

their deadline is 2027

it's not one magic database

when 2027 hits, they will start enforcing the ban

so right now, the ban is just for show

each access for information will require a warrant, or at least an analyst to approve a "national security warrentless look"

all that still requires work and effort

others have a different opinion about what will happen in 2027

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> superintelligent AI will take over the world

you can use XMR openly and not break the law

look at mullvad

they accept XMR

over a .onion at that

and they have no magical govt raids

what does superintelligent AI think about monero?

why don't you ask it?

it doesn't exist

monero not existing seems like the perfect usecase

however I can ask Cat

govt: where are you hiding your funds!!!

me: it doesn't exist

but I already know what Cat thinks about meownero

meow?

does anyone have a good source on monero propaganda art

looking to expand my collection

monero makes Cat feel quite secure

also loves mining during cold weather

<gan:skhron.org> That sounds enjoyable

meow

:)

meow nioc

<gan:skhron.org> Better than to waste other stuff when you could compute

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I can mine more during summer because more sun

<ravfx:xmr.mx> 40C ambiant is so nice :D

<gan:skhron.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: I'd probably die

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Battery health is good, I want my lifepo4 to outlast me.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Mining is how my battery dont get to 100% at 10am

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: I think you're missing my point. let me clarify. Yes, i'm aware that in many places its perfectly legal to use XMR for legitimate purposes. But my point is that this could change at any time, look at the EU (as Cindy pointed out) Therefore, it would be logical to be prepared for these things in advanced. and one of [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/7ZuluN8KVERhVkRO ]

buy any legal crypto coin via KYC or p2p

exchange for XMR on a noKYC platform

that's all you have to really do

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: ok, but wouldn't cash by mail be even more anonymous? or gift card to XMR (assuming everyone can trust each other). I'm curious to see how far this can go. what is the ultimate paranoid way? maybe just mine it in that case? but then the electric company might ask what you're doing to use up so much electricity.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Get offgrid, get solar panels and batteries, make electricity for yourself, with love

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Now we're talking!

ultimate paranoia way would be sending gps coordinates through pgp encryption or similar, then meeting up using cold storage wallets and doing a XMR for non-traceable bills

xd

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> sponkz: hmmmmm, this might work. just gotta make sure you're dealing with a trustworthy person. but i like the way you think!

"trust me bro"

:D

best face-to-face trades should be done in public places like a mcdonalds or starbucks :p

<321bob321> You also get food out of it