you can still do this in P2P exchanges

it's that, i doubt anyone will take you

from how risky in nature it is

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> good points all around. but what if there was a way to give the code to the p2p exchange first. is there a way for them to verify if has been used yet? if so, then maybe that could work like an escrow system.

only if someone is daring

no, there's no way to verify if it's been used

once you share it, how do you prevent them from spending it

and saying it was used

unless you mail the gift card to them, without ever scratching it off

and you might as well mail cash then

they can always lie and say it showed up scratched off

plus what if the giftcard was purchased with fraudulent funds like a stolen CC

and then it's revocked a few weeks later by the victim

that's even worse

just stick to irreversible transaction methods when buying or selling crypto

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: ok. I didnt' think about that actually.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> so if the fcmp transactions are 7.2 kb and the block size is still at 300 then it's cooked in terms of tps right? <<>> the non penalty block size will increase with FCMP++ but I forget the exact #

you're asking for no-KYC (so anyone can spin up new accounts) and a high fraud rate (giftcards)

bad idea

we've had someone here who asked if they could do CCs in P2P

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nioc: 625kb

meow

and stated that they owned the card (yeah right)

Cindy: you can, but they usually have high af fees

and force every protection like 3ds etc

that was super suspicious

2fa codes to the phone number etc

to prevent stolen CCs

also this guy said he had an american credit card

but sometimes spoke russian

i was thinking he just stole a credit card

yea, just move on

Cindy: we have russians here, we have everybody here

some users are bilingual

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> will cake wallet (or some other service) let you buy some other altcoins from them directly with a prepaid card? then just swap to XMR?

I wouldn't instantly attribute a subset of languages to fraud

some humans even lurk here

meow

just use a KYC creditcard > BTC , then a noKYC btc > xmr

anything else is dumber and risky

BoBeR182: your exchange account will get frozen

wut?

move the BTC to your phone frist

then move to over P2P to someone else

how will that freeze your exchange account

even if that person uses the BTC on a honeypot darknetmarket

they can freeze you from ever buying BTC :P

it's 2 + hopes away from you

why would a KYC stop your from buying BTC?

that's literally how they make their money

CEXs like to track down where you send your BTC to

and when it ends up

if it ends up something bad, you get incriminated

but any BTC can do that

exactly

they clearly accept the risk

you don't heard normie users having exchanges frozen from normal transactions

so why would yours be any different

you bought BTC with a credit card, moved it to a personal wallet, then moved it to a p2p exchange

you could even move it to another CEX and buy XMR directly

then move the XMR to a phone wallet

and trail is gone

just don't do XMR > illegal service

just don't do CEX XMR wallet > illegal service wallet

👮 illegal service sir? no thank you

if you're trying to avoid the risk of someone else illegal activities tainting yoru coins, just bump to your own wallet first to "clean" or deattach them from previous history

XMR is great for that

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> because the BTC blockchain is transparent. chain analysis would be able to determine where the BTC is going (to be swapped for XMR) even if its a few hops. if a user does this over and over, it might come off as suspicious. thats probably when the kyc account gets flagged/frozen. > <BoBeR182> how will that freeze your exchange account

buying XMR isn't illegal?

unless it is in your juristriction then you have other issues like talking in a #monero channel

most CEX even allow buying XMR directly

just do that?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Buying xmr isnt the problem

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Its depositing no-kyc btc, mixed, dirty, tainted, racist, terrorist btc

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: sure, some CEXs allow this. but i've always wondered: wouldn't this make you suspicious to the government from the beginning? if you use a CEX KYC exchange and buy XMR directly. now the government knows you have XMR. regardless of whatever your plans are with it, they KNOW you have it. i feel like even that is a risk.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> exchanges that deal in surveillance blockchains, are often mandated to perform dragnet surveillance on the coins that you deposit or withdraw

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @cranial_luminance:matrix.org: Who cares? Im allowed to have xmr, gold, silver, a per rock collection, or whatever i feel like

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What im not allowed to do, is be in posession of stolen goods (tainted btc)

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> "Who cares?" is a fair question. but lets be honest with ourselves here: 1. the government probably does care, even if they don't admit it, and we should assume they do care. 2. if we had the choice between buying XMR directly from a KYC CEX or getting as anonymously as possible to where not even the government knows we have i [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/hNP8tt8KZkhrd3A4 ]

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> just throwing ideas out there

ofrnxmr: "Who cares?" the EU certainly does care

2027 2027 2027 2027

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> the gov doesn't care about you buying, it cares about you selling

no it cares about both

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: for now. but remember: laws change

you talk about "the govt" as it was one entity

the US government might care under one department the IRS

but if you are using you wageslave job to fund buying XMR, and never bring XMR into your CEX and trade for fiat

there's no reason to think you are running a business and evading taxes

the FBI/etc might care about your XMR if you buy lots and are associated with drug dealing

the EU cares now

but generally speaking investing in crypto both private and nonprivacy isn't illegal

they are planning to ban anyone from accepting anonymity-preserving coins

as long as you pay any capital gains or business income tax on it

which includes monero

Cindy: plan to, and have banned isn't the same

why am i seing planning

saying*

still multiple governments exists that have to work with multiple CEXs

their deadline is 2027

it's not one magic database

when 2027 hits, they will start enforcing the ban

so right now, the ban is just for show

each access for information will require a warrant, or at least an analyst to approve a "national security warrentless look"

all that still requires work and effort

others have a different opinion about what will happen in 2027

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> superintelligent AI will take over the world

you can use XMR openly and not break the law

look at mullvad

they accept XMR

over a .onion at that

and they have no magical govt raids

what does superintelligent AI think about monero?

why don't you ask it?

it doesn't exist

monero not existing seems like the perfect usecase

however I can ask Cat

govt: where are you hiding your funds!!!

me: it doesn't exist

but I already know what Cat thinks about meownero

meow?

does anyone have a good source on monero propaganda art

looking to expand my collection

monero makes Cat feel quite secure

also loves mining during cold weather

<gan:skhron.org> That sounds enjoyable

meow

:)

meow nioc

<gan:skhron.org> Better than to waste other stuff when you could compute

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I can mine more during summer because more sun

<ravfx:xmr.mx> 40C ambiant is so nice :D

<gan:skhron.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: I'd probably die

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Battery health is good, I want my lifepo4 to outlast me.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Mining is how my battery dont get to 100% at 10am

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: I think you're missing my point. let me clarify. Yes, i'm aware that in many places its perfectly legal to use XMR for legitimate purposes. But my point is that this could change at any time, look at the EU (as Cindy pointed out) Therefore, it would be logical to be prepared for these things in advanced. and one of [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/7ZuluN8KVERhVkRO ]

buy any legal crypto coin via KYC or p2p

exchange for XMR on a noKYC platform

that's all you have to really do

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> BoBeR182: ok, but wouldn't cash by mail be even more anonymous? or gift card to XMR (assuming everyone can trust each other). I'm curious to see how far this can go. what is the ultimate paranoid way? maybe just mine it in that case? but then the electric company might ask what you're doing to use up so much electricity.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Get offgrid, get solar panels and batteries, make electricity for yourself, with love

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Now we're talking!

ultimate paranoia way would be sending gps coordinates through pgp encryption or similar, then meeting up using cold storage wallets and doing a XMR for non-traceable bills

xd

<cranial_luminance:matrix.org> sponkz: hmmmmm, this might work. just gotta make sure you're dealing with a trustworthy person. but i like the way you think!

"trust me bro"

:D

best face-to-face trades should be done in public places like a mcdonalds or starbucks :p

<321bob321> You also get food out of it

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> lmao this is crazy, there's actually no source code for the node, wtf. shame the blog is written with gpt though > <Cindy> blog.can.ac/2025/12/20/reverse-engineering-hyperliquid

most anonymous would not be in person, as then you have to travel, and lots of CCTV + metadata (phone pings, tickets, gas station reciepts)

online only, over some alternative networks, .onion/.i2p

ideally it would be crypto4crypto with a time delay

otherwise physical precious metals in the mail/dead drops with time delay

this is assuming a trusted trading partner

precious metals don't have serial numbers

while the mail system can be traced, dead drops are less likely to be monitored

Gas station? That's the least of your problems when you're travelling by car. With public transport a lot of tickets are KYC but I think one can manage.

also in some places cash by mail is illegal, keep that in mind

Missed the first part of the conversation so didn't get the context lol. But I feel like for me the CCTVs during purchases are not a concern, not as passive/centrally monitored as bank card transactions.

new release of skylight wallet v1.0.6

BlueyHealer: makes sense, but assuming a repeated purchase of "illegal" xmr crypto on a nation state hostile country, you'd want to avoid meeting in the same place with the same 2 people consistantly

travel creates a strong pattern, lots of studies show you can be deanonymized by that

so dead drops + secure communication seems better or "remote" transfers like cash in mail

biggest problem with cash is if you pull out $1000 in twenties from an ATM, and they immediatly get deposited in the same order at another customers ATM you can easily link the two transactions together

serial numbers and all that

lol imagine HAVING $1000 in cash

<b4n6_b4n6:matrix.org> Hi, guys

<b4n6_b4n6:matrix.org> I made this xmr-btc dex aggregator :)

<b4n6_b4n6:matrix.org> monero-orderbooks.com

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> sponkz: Maybe I've seen too many movies, but my idea of proper face 2 face trade is to meet at a toilet in a shopping mall or similar public place :D

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> One of the last places on earth where privacy is respected.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> They did get raided once actually. Cops walked out empty handed though. > <BoBeR182> and they have no magical govt raids

What are you talking about?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> theverge.com/2023/4/21/23692580/mullvad-vpn-raid-sweden-police

That's nice to have but wouldn't count on that alone for anything important. Same as for Signal - raids show they weren't doing it at the moment, not that they're not capable of it.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Capable of ?

I mean eventually capturing data that the raid showed they weren't collecting.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Unless you can demonstrate the client apps are capable of capturing data, isn't this just unfounded speculation ?

Why client? I mean the servers in the raid.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> the idea is that data you transmit to them is encrypted, no ?

<321bob321> Zero knowledge if its e2ee

<321bob321> Server is just a sync

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Yep.

I mean the metadata

With https everywhere, I assume that was the point

<tsjk:matrix.org> @b4n6_b4n6:matrix.org: How can some prices be less than 100% of the market price?

<torir:matrix.org> @b4n6_b4n6:matrix.org: You may wish to consider adding the Eigenwallet orderbook as well. Also RetoSwap has a competitor now called Dawnswap.

<monerobull:matrix.org> Dawnswap is more imaginary lol

<monerobull:matrix.org> I don't think there has ever been a single trade complete on it

<321bob321> Its a new dawn

<remake6316:matrix.org> Anyone here use localcoinswap?

<monerobull:matrix.org> Just use retoswap man

<monerobull:matrix.org> >anyone in here using PayPal?

I've been using godex.io for swaps. It's easy to use and the conversion rates are ok

Funny how XMR is being banned on CEX, I don't even think anyone should be using XMR on a CEX in the first place, since it kinda defeats the whole purpose of Monero. DEX for the win! :)

But what about businesses accepting it? Or swappers? They need it conveniently and in bulk, and their income is not secret.

^

DEX is not as stable

you'll have to seek out suppliers or sellers of XMR

and negotiate payment metho

method*

Yeah, something that's not a big deal to an individual, but not a business.

<flyingfish0:matrix.org> A lot of discussion is happening on reddit about the new view keys on the next update of monero and the fact that i can be asked by regulators to map the network. does this discussion is happening to those who make the final decisions on monero devlopment ?

True, but if it's being banned, it's being banned nothing we can do about that. I was thinking though, this CEX ban is a bit silly considering you can always give an auditor your view key no?

flyingfish0: honestly regulators can do it right now

without the new update

they can ask for all the incoming view keys, and then correlate transactions in a pretty simple way

as far as i know, outgoing view keys are important to the quantum-safety of FCMP++

i think DataHoarder explained that yesterday

dmlunar: yeah that's true, but at the same time, aren't we able to strive for something as convenient as CEX?

Good point, hopefully the community can.

i'd like a list of centralized fiat<->XMR suppliers that hold some of their liquidity as a bond to prove that they aren't a scam

<flyingfish0:matrix.org> From what i've read the current keys seem impractical tu use for that purpose > <Cindy> they can ask for all the incoming view keys, and then correlate transactions in a pretty simple way

flyingfish0: not really

if a transaction has a main output and a change output

you can check who received the change output (usually the sender itself)

and who received the main output

all with just the incoming view keys

sure, there are transactions with no change, but those are uncommon compared to the ones that do

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> dmlunar: godex is a cex... you know all swappers are cex right

br-m: that's interesting, I thought it was more of a hybrid.

br-m: nonetheless I've had a good experience with it

br-m: I want to give retroswap a go sometime soon

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i think there is a large undeserved hate for cex and love for delisting

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> * the vast majority of liquidity provided to dex is arbitraged on cex, if cex blows up then liquidity tanks. like with the binance delisting. if kucoin nuked it tomorrow, liquidity would be down terribly again

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> * no one is running market making on your dex standalone that needs to wait minutes to confirm the trade (there are no AMM dex for monero), central limit order book with huge throughput and low latency is where the liquidity is coming from. if all cex delisted tomorrow it would be very terrible

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> * most users buy/trade on cex because the dex ux is 100x worse (like you using a swapper site which is cex, though swapper sites are more like a middleman, and not a "true" cex)[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/l7yl0t8KaUFmbTRi ]

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I think i might agree with 40% of each statement

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> what part do you disagree with

" that needs to wait minutes to confirm the trade"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> re minutes to confirm trade = same thing for arbitraging on cex or using a swapper. Cexs and swappers dont allow 0 conf deposits

if ANYONE even takes your trade

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: that is why dex have terrible liquidity. because it takes minutes to arb with the cex. no one wants to be holding that risk. on the cex there is tight liquidity as you can trade with extremely low latency. the swapper sites just use a "floating rate" and take the cut off whatever it actually trades for, they don't care.

you have to find the goldilock offer

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: arbing cex -> cex is the same wait ....

either it's too small, or too big

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> trading on cex is mostly NOT arbing though. trading on dex is

or make your own and wait days for someone to take it

or more

CEX is more convenient, you don't have to spend hours looking for the best offer

like if its a payment method you like, but the person wants 1000-2000 XMR

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> When going from fiat?

both ways

when going from fiat and when going from monero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Of course cex is much easier and more secure

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Exchanges arent doing chargebacks or running scams with stolen accounts

there are so many offers that ask for too little

or too much

and have a payment method you can't possibly fulfill (like F2F)

and yes, range amounts are supposed to fix this, but the minimum or maximum still ends up being shit

on most of the offers that use it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But for crypto<->xmr, id argue that there isnt really a problem finding liquidity. If youre buying > 100xmr, theres a few thousand available at 2.5% on retoswap

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And less than 100xmr and theres probably a couple hundred at 0.5-2%

but i don't want to buy >100xmr

and i don't want to sell that much either

oh wait, you mean crypto<->xmr

sorry

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Ya, the big offers dont want to sell less than 100xmr > <Cindy> and yes, range amounts are supposed to fix this, but the minimum or maximum still ends up being shit

<preland> In general, fiat DEX transactions are the most challenging

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @preland: Yee, becauae fiat cant be decentralized

<preland> I wish there was a better way to do it, but fiat doesn't exactly make transactions "simple" in the same way that crypto ones are

fiat DEX sucks

i was only able to complete one trade

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Fiat dex is an oxymoron

on retoswap, and that's only because i finally found a GOOD offer after spending hours upon hours

i used to think DEX is the way to find monero, but i wouldn't recommend this shit to normies

and to businesses either

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> 2.5% is terrible bruh... 0.5 is already not great > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But for crypto<->xmr, id argue that there isnt really a problem finding liquidity. If youre buying > 100xmr, theres a few thousand available at 2.5% on retoswap

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> it needs uniswap-like liquidity to be actually good

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: For 2000xmr? Try buying that on cex w/o slippage

i'd like a list of suppliers that either let you sell or buy XMR (even with a fee) directly to or from your wallet

but not like the CEX way

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I'm slowly coming to the conclusion it's better to acquire a different coin like LTC first then swap it over to XMR.. Not ideal but RetoSwap doesn't really fit my needs either. > <Cindy> i used to think DEX is the way to find monero, but i wouldn't recommend this shit to normies

they list what payment methods they accept upfront, amounts, etc. i don't care

the main benefit here is that it'll be much more stable than the sea of offers in retoswap

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Basicswap liquidity dried up after xmr ran to highs, but it had good rates for ltc<->xmr, like 1% in either direction, sometimes 0% if buying ltc

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Now I moved the problem from finding XMR to finding LTC, lol.

like accomodating both big and small buyers/sellers, and you can be sure that they won't disappear one day

one of the issues i've had in retoswap, is that the good offers i find don't last

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Fiat?

yes

fiat

it's not like you can just settle with someone and know they'll be there for you anytime

they just disappear within a week (or even less), and you're back to searching

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Why not? When a friend of mine named notfrnxmr was on localmonero, he was reliable

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I wonder how it was with LocalMonero. I never actually traded with it but I don't remember it had the same issues as RetoSwap.

exactly

i'd like a list of stable suppliers who are there most of the time

i'm not asking for 24/7 uptime, just business days or whatever

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Nah LM has full time swappers who were available constantly

and have a good range they accept (not big only or extremely small)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Even had businesses

yeah LM had those

but it changed after LM got shut down

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Damn, I missed out.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> like ravfx said, a lot of them never migrated to retoswap

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Why's that ?

retoswap is not a full replacement for localmonero

because local monero had stable suppliers/swappers

while retoswap is full of one-off offers

full of instability, and hours wasted on searching for offers

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Localmonero was easier for non-tech ppl to hop on and buy or sell monero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Retoswap isnt used by normies

also it didn't help that you had to keep retoswap on all the time

to keep your offer alive

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Yea

if you go offline, your offer is gone until you come back

<gan:skhron.org> not yet, that is, because the lack of the userbase at the moment > <Cindy> retoswap is not a full replacement for localmonero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Also thr accpunt model made it easier to blacklist scammers

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Fuck it I can probably host LocalMonero here for you here in this 3rd world country.

that fact made it even worse to use haveno in general

because i'm not leaving a bloated Java program on 24/7

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Neither was localmonero to be fair, but yup, it was certainly easier to grasp for the lesser technicals, because it's le website in le browser

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @gan:skhron.org: yes it was

what about openmonero.com?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Id argue the majority of my friends buyers/sellers were people that were barely able to use cake wallet

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @gan:skhron.org: Nah. LocalMonero was an app on my phone. Haveno feels like I'm entering the darknet market.

also if you didn't run haveno for a long time

you'll have to wait for it to sync to the tip of monero's chain

<basses:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: any reason for that?

which made it more dreadful to use it

<gan:skhron.org> That's true, but I also think most people who might use it usually have the hardware to handle it > <Cindy> because i'm not leaving a bloated Java program on 24/7

gan: i like to do work on the same computer i have haveno on

and trust me, the RAM usage from haveno adds up

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @gan:skhron.org: I exclusively used the localmonero app

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Hey this looks pretty good at first glance. ! > <Cindy> what about openmonero.com?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Localmonero.me

is openmonero.com a scam

<gan:skhron.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I unironically forgot that people use smartphones [I use non-jailed OSes], but yeah, doing F2F trade is almost impossible because desktopness of Haveno

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: For RetoSwap to feel so underground ? I mean it feels that way because thats what it is..

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: What's going on here..

<basses:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: still dont get the reason... is it because it doesn't have web interface and support agents?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Openmonero has a bad rap for numerous reasons.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. they tried to act like they were localmonero and launched as localmonero.me

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 2. They created a localmonero matrix room and invited everyone from the real localmonero's matrix room

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 3. they rebranded / aliased as openmonero, which is another already-taken name[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/1P2c098KYVl0Q0M2 ]

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: > 2. who doesn't love invite spam

<gan:skhron.org> yeah, pretty shady

<basses:matrix.org> @gan:skhron.org: grapheneos exists

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> you can buy that much on cex with much less slippage. i don't recall retoswap having that much liquidity in the past, any screenshots? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> For 2000xmr? Try buying that on cex w/o slippage

are there intermediaries that basically take payments over paypal or whatever and automatically convert to monero?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/arGtnSJpaMFMMiYxmAPMbHjo.png (share_8617968101189429552.png)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats buying xmr using btc @kiersten5821:matrix.org

<gan:skhron.org> @basses:matrix.org: Don't care about androids in general, they're still pretty jailed regardless

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: It's because, let's start from the beginning:

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> First, I can't even install it on PC from my usual channels, it's not on Flatpak or any distro's Repo's, gotta download it from the website.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Then, I have to wait what felt like over 2 hours before being able to use it waiting for the wallet to sync over Tor.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Then, finally checking the offers, nearly all of them are for tens and hundreds of XMR, and most are deposit based meaning its a no go for beginners...

that's exactly what i'm talking about

most of the offers are for giant amounts of XMR, like only for the big traders

if you just wanna convert 70 dollars from XMR to fiat, good fucking luck

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I also use "non jailed OSes". > <@gan:skhron.org> I unironically forgot that people use smartphones [I use non-jailed OSes], but yeah, doing F2F trade is almost impossible because desktopness of Haveno

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: There are better rates on smaller amounts

<gan:skhron.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: > First, I can't even install it on PC from my usual channels, it's not on Flatpak or any distro's Repo's, gotta download it from the website.

<gan:skhron.org> It's provided as an appimage, that could be easily jailed

<gan:skhron.org> > Then, I have to wait what felt like over 2 hours before being able to use it waiting for the wallet to sync over Tor.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/x9ys098KMjEwRllr ]

gan: it's not a one time thing

it happens everytime you don't open haveno for a long tiem

it has to sync up first

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Well shit. The search for a non convoluted way to acquire Monero continues.. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Openmonero has a bad rap for numerous reasons.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: On re-check, the smallest is 1xmr

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (Which isnt small)

1 xmr is 512 dollars

of course that's not small

if you just wanna convert a small amount quickly, haveno is painful

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Hey, for ltc<->xmr on basicswap, the smallest is like 0.05ltc

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Not from what I've seen. Unless you consider +15% rates to be good.. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> There are better rates on smaller amounts

i miss long-term swappers

on localmonero

they were as convenient as CEX, but without the problems from CEX

<basses:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/NdwiCIgUThzSWNrUiSGKohIW.png (clipboard.png) > <@pyratevevo:matrix.org> It's because, let's start from the beginning:

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Agree

<basses:matrix.org> retoswap.com/#download

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Cindy: Bring Back LocalMonero !

these one-off offers fucking suck

always too big, the good ones just disappear after half a week

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: monero-orderbooks.com

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: I did say I had to download it from the website. What's this screenshot for ?

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/ShHzrUznIISNFRjsuSVnpqlB.png (image.png)

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> Not even close to 2000 xmr at 2.5%...

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> oh i read it wrong

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> you were right

<basses:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: because what you are saying is subjective, I dont see how downloading from website is somethind odd, you can request them to have on distro's repo

the swappers i like are the ones that accept traders of all kinds

small trades, big trades

most of the offers on haveno are only for whales

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I wasn't talking about crypto swaps.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I mean fiat to Monero directly.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i guess it is a little better than i thought

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: On Linux, it is indeed odd for the developers of a software to not put it up on Flathub.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I know why though, it's for zero-trust shenanigans. "Download directly from source" etc etc

<basses:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: yes, feather refused to put it on flathub for that reason

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Still, pretty inconvenient especially when an update is out.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You don't need flathub for updates

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Paranoid devs can even host their own flatpak or distro repo if they cared..

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: retoswap folks arent devs by any stretch of the imagination

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Pretty sure I had to revisit and redownload the flatpak when an update was out last time.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I don't know if the AppImage auto updates, that should be trivial to achieve though.

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Haveno went with a poor design decision where maintaining a separate network requires changing the code, as almost everything is hardcoded in Java instead of being configured in a separate file

<basses:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: true about about flatpak repo

<basses:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^ is probably the reason why didnt do that yet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I said need :P

<gan:skhron.org> @gan:skhron.org: What Were They Thinking remains a mystery

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @gan:skhron.org: It was a last minute change

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> It was never intended to have networks

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It's a poor architectural design in general, like it's still a mockup

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: As far as I've understood the concern of running "official" network was always there

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Nah

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> They had an official network up and running

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But pissed the bed and cancelled the launch

<gan:skhron.org> Hmm, perhaps I'm not correct, truthfully, I've joined the observation deck pretty late in its development

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> before tornadocash, nobody cared about potential grey areas

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> free roman storm

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Could it be that openmonero is all bullshit ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> could be

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I say we should test it out.

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: My memory is too fuzzy then, I thought the development pick up after tornadocash fiasco

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> :P

does openmonero have bonds?

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> didn't they steal 90 xmr?

or something to check if the swapper won't scam

wen did binance delist relative to localmonero shutting down?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @gan:skhron.org: Nah dev was done by the time localmonero shut down

<gan:skhron.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Truthfully, the holes in that grey area were observable with localmonero, as it's obviously that there has been pressure from the state despite it being registered to a HK company (if I recall correctly)

<gan:skhron.org> Like they have to obey sanctions applied by the U.S to some other states

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Cindy: Apparently yes: How am I protected from being scammed?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> All online trades are protected by arbitration bonds. When a trade is started an amount of Monero equal to the amount of the trade is automatically reserved from the seller's OpenMonero bond wallet. This means that if the seller runs away with your money and does not finalize the trade, OpenMonero support can direct the the Mo [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4e_4098KWHA2VVZP ]

"local trades do not have arbitration bond protection enabled by default."

because you can beat them up

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> What the fuck is "Kenya M-PESA" ?

very popular payment system in Africa

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> nioc: Cool. I wonder why these very legitimate OpenMonero traders ask me to send to there African payment system when their listing says Revolut Germany..

I have no idea the extent of the network nowadays

Maybe because less regulation :)

.shrug

<monerobull:matrix.org> it is > <@pyratevevo:matrix.org> Could it be that openmonero is all bullshit ?

<monerobull:matrix.org> its one guy from nigeria running a slander slander campaign against everything else

<monerobull:matrix.org> and he got hacked before because the site is vibecoded

oh right, he was slandering retoswap 0_o

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Gotta give the guy A for effort. The only scam you can fall for with this website is your time.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @monerobull:matrix.org: Kenya*

<monerobull:matrix.org> sorry my geographic knowledge is rather limited

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @monerobull:matrix.org: Twitter exposed them

ofrnxmr: do you know how adaptor signatures work?

i could never understand those

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Otves papers can explain better than i can

otves paper?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But tldr it transmits some data off chain

oh

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> academy.particl.io/en/latest/basics…_technicals.html#adaptor-signatures

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> If I got LTC from a CEX, should I use the MWEB pegging feature before swapping to XMR or is worthless ?

<yokoama:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: if you swap from mweb, you are 99% bound to lose your coins

<yokoama:matrix.org> mweb is seen as mixing, anything coming out of it is not recognized by cex

<yokoama:matrix.org> ltc > mweb > ltc > ltc > ltc > ltc > ltc > ltc > ltc > cex might work

<yokoama:matrix.org> you can do it, fees are low

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @yokoama:matrix.org: Wow.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @yokoama:matrix.org: Nah fuck that.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> It's incredible how difficult it is to acquire Monero at no ripoff costs.

hi

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Why? > <@yokoama:matrix.org> if you swap from mweb, you are 99% bound to lose your coins

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Ive swapped from mweb np

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Where are you swapping it? P2p?

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Well I don't really need to worry about it anymore as even getting Litecoin without KYC seems like wild goose.