<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> blockchain bloat, wallet sync bloat, etc etc etc

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> pre fcmp, yes, decoy elimination

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> not just because its public, but from the size of the tx itself

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and, ofc, bloat is worse with fcmp

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> like, oh look, i can store a dns entry today for 1.5kb, but it hurts privacy >> i can store one tomorrow for 7kb but it doesnt hurt privacy, it just hurts ux of every wallet user and node runner

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and, ofc, that 7kb is amplified by the number of nodes

<ravfx:xmr.mx> if someone need privacy to use the internet, he can use tor

<ravfx:xmr.mx> tor allow user to use the internet assuming the site he want to go isnt hostile agains tor user

<ravfx:xmr.mx> tor can resolv normal dns

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yeup ^

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or if u want to store garbage data, use bsv or some shit

<ravfx:xmr.mx> DNS can be "decentralied" aka, owned by the people who own the thing, like ns1.getmonero.org, ns2.getmonero.org, ns3.getmonero.org, etc, etc

<ravfx:xmr.mx> xmr.mx can provide DNS services

<eravsar:raubritter.org> i agree. but monero blockchain is already big, i think this is just worth it. blockchain is the only solution to decentralized dns and monero is one of the most decentralized (thanks to randomx) and has great cypherpunk ethos.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> also it doesnt store dns records, just 32 bytes ed25519 public key and 32 bytes name. dns resolution is then made by connecting to authoritative dns server at port 53 of the i2p/tor service derived from the key.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> no, it is not already big

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> stressnet is already larger than mainnet in just a few months

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it stored 64 bytes PLUS 7kb garbaage tx

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> multiplied by number of nodes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "blockchaiun is bla bla"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ever heard of namecoin?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> why dont you use a blockchain that was invented for that purpose

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> where txs arent fkn 50MB for PUBLIC data

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> use a chain that has PUBLIC storage then, like wth?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> because it won't work out fine. it doesn't have any value on its own except being the name coin and no adoption. it is better to use something established. i understand the criticism about blockchain bloat and i accept it, i just believe it is worth it.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i think your service is cancer

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Something established is DNS, it exist since somewhere in the 70's or something

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and is why i hate txextra

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And everyone can query them without extra crust added

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> becasue of people like you, who think i should have to sync your garbage data onto my node and wallet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> messages should be sent in a sidechannel, off chain, or on a chain built for such, not embedded in my history forever. this isnt bitcoin, where bloat is insignificant and nearly free

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: anyone can do dust transactions to cause bloat. you really think only one name claim transaction is that chaotic? the txextra size there is almost meaningless compared to the base size.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it used to be 100kb and now it is 1kb

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> how is that insignifcant? thats 66% increase to the tx

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: it is not a stupid message, it is simple 64 bytes name-key per claim. minimum for 1 year. is it really that bad?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> you can't send to a side channel because that's the whole reason it needs blockchain.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its permanant

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> not 1 year

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> do you think data just falls off of the blockchain after 1yr?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> no i meant xns name claims, at worst one name would be burned for minimum 1 year. so 64 bytes a year

<eravsar:raubritter.org> come on it is only 64 bytes. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> how is that insignifcant? thats 66% increase to the tx

<eravsar:raubritter.org> like 2% increase

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its 1.564kb (and will be 7kb)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> multiplied by 10000

<ravfx:xmr.mx> The website is on a server

<ravfx:xmr.mx> the dns can be owned by the same people who own the server(s), if they adhere to the same security standard and don't use 10 years old Linux then it should be fine.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Having decentralized bloat-inducing DNS that require using to install extra thing to query, for a site that sit on a server, is not useful (imo)

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: it is for any unspent output though not about txextra

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And normal DNS are technically decentralized (if your not using cloudflare...)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> and are using your own

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It's just decentralized... on L1 Internet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nono, ravfx, we need to store dns on a blockchain that costs as much as possible for uninterested parties to store it

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: cant state actors shut it down if they really want? aren't you trusting a registrar and paying with fiat money?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @eravsar:raubritter.org: They can just steal the server on where the site is hosted at that point, what is the difference

<ravfx:xmr.mx> if they wanted to steal monero domain names they would already done so

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: there is a huge difference. they can just censor your domain is one thing, stealing your computer is another thing.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> these are just nfts all over again

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: useful at least

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> not in the slightest

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> a car is useful. a car that takes 40 gallons to travel 6 feet, is not

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And there is the eggs in the chicken problem too as a bonus

<ravfx:xmr.mx> DNS are hosted on monero blockchain

<ravfx:xmr.mx> You want monero

<ravfx:xmr.mx> You need access to monero blockchain to query DNS[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4Oyah6ILMU91WXJX ]

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: at least you can have the car

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there are cars that are built for travel

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: it is not necessary, use i2p/tor nodes. monero also has optional i2p p2p transport afaik

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it doesnt have i2p p2p transport

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, people who need or want to use theses tool can totally use them

<ravfx:xmr.mx> But people who just need access to basic information or software should not be required to use/learn said tools

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and it can never, if people like you want to add garbage 7kb tx spam

<eddie:oblak.be> I pay for some DNS with monero > <@eravsar:raubritter.org> cant state actors shut it down if they really want? aren't you trusting a registrar and paying with fiat money?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Can just make .onion or something

<ravfx:xmr.mx> for the private layer

<ravfx:xmr.mx> .i2p work too

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there are like 50 different solutions for this. ens, unstoppabledomains, namecoin, etc etc etc, layer2s etc etc

<ravfx:xmr.mx> why having to use blockchain based DNS, I don't understand, I never even queried one of such crypto dns

<eravsar:raubritter.org> it is another discussion. but if you just gatekeep something because it is not convenient it can never get established enough to become convenient > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> But people who just need access to basic information or software should not be required to use/learn said tools

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> stuffing it inside of the most wasteful method, is something claude would do

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: viva la fragmentation

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> lets add another option

<ravfx:xmr.mx> have to install 32 services to resolve them all!

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> maybe people will choose the dumbest one

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> lets use monero!

<eddie:oblak.be> I also don't understand why DNS should be on the monero blockchain.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: is there any other way to achieve truly decentralized dns? any design slowly turns into blockchain.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> make sure ppl need to sync 700gbs over the course of 14 weeks to resolve a fkn domain

<eddie:oblak.be> Why not use Matrix as a fileserver

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> youre 1 person, with 1 "service", imagine if everybody did that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> like eigenwallet adding fuckin atomic swap messaging to monero

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> this is a fkn shitshow

<eravsar:raubritter.org> this is not a service. i am not selling anything

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i agree it is stupid

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Just get everyone reliable people in the space to own a server or vps or whatever, each can run there own nsX.getmonero.org

<ravfx:xmr.mx> We still need a way to vet who can update DNS but then you have 15 monero DNS slave

<ravfx:xmr.mx> no blockchain involved

<ravfx:xmr.mx> no L2 or L3 involved

<eravsar:raubritter.org> but not the same thing.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what particl (basicswap) did, is they added a messaging service that runs ON TOP of the blockchain. messages expire and are not stored on chain

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what p2pool did, is added a SIDECHAIN

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i concede that txextra will continue to be abused as long as it exists, and fcmp codifies its existence

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or rather, carrot does

<eravsar:raubritter.org> the reason this shit has to be a cancer on monero is, it wants to use the consensus of monero. that's basically it. no point in arguing with this. i accept it is causing bloat but i am saying it is worth it. and +64 bytes compared to base transaction size is not really that bad

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so, people are going to use it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what is the base transaction used for?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> to put it in a block

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thats all?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so its a dust tx just to store the data

<eravsar:raubritter.org> someone can just do cheap dust transactions if they want to bloat the blockchain. +64 bytes xns does is nothing compared to any ordinary unspent output.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: not dust, you burn 0.01xmr per year

<ravfx:xmr.mx> What if we need to add extra IP to the DNS ban list, that will be a big TX, a critical one at that... What if chain take 30 min to confirm eet, like badluck forever confirmation (it append).

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> we should store the dns banlist on the blockchain

<ravfx:xmr.mx> What if the people that added the spy network are also flooding monero with high fee transaction to prevent the DNS upgrade to occur

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: in that case ordinary monero transactions are also in risk

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: That could work, in addition to DNS and .txt

<ravfx:xmr.mx> new nodes that sync, ideally, need access to the last banlist

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ravfx:xmr.mx: we should update it every block

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> send 40 txs to fill the list

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or better, 1 tx per entry

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Oh I see, send 40 txs every block to keep it updated!

<ravfx:xmr.mx> sound good, Approved!

<eravsar:raubritter.org> nice jokes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> who's joking?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> this is your idea, just scaled up

<eravsar:raubritter.org> just tell me why +64 bytes per name per year is that bad compared to base transaction size

<eravsar:raubritter.org> it is like only 2.5% increase per transaction. these transactions at least burn 0.01xmr.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> and you get unstoppable names. come on

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I should never have blabed about why monero used cloudflare 😂

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @eravsar:raubritter.org: unstoppable names 99.9% of people can't resolv

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: are you saying because a tech is new it should be avoided

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what makes your idea holy, but its not ok when eigenwallet wants to do the same to send messages?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And well, I made a point before, you need to sync monero blockchain to resolv them

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And you need to revolv them to get the monero software needed to resolve them

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @eravsar:raubritter.org: non, What I said is that it's won't get standarised into OS so only a very small subset of user will be able to resolve them

<ravfx:xmr.mx> We have the fix for limited IP

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It's called IPV6.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It's been there since DECADES, to fix a REAL problem, and there is what??? 45%

<ravfx:xmr.mx> [... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/ysbph6ILTlRtSFdC ]

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: because this is the only way to achieve unstoppable names. tell me any other architecture that has a global name state without trust assumptions.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> namecoin, handshake, ens whatever all exist because of this. but they are failed except ens because they didnt have the strong consensus in the beginning by providing another kind of value. ens succeeded on its own field because it inherits everything ethereum has. xns does the same for monero but for more practical reasons.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> If to fix issues it take decades

<ravfx:xmr.mx> To fix less important issue it will take how much time for full adoption (because you would not want a user wanting to use monero to first need to get monero to be able to get monero right?)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> no, xns doesnt do the same. and namecoin is alive and well

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, namecoin still alive (never used it)

<eravsar:raubritter.org> it is alive and well but no practical use

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> id rather everyone switch to ens and namecoin, at what, a few bytes for the whole transaction, than 7kb per domain name, every year

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: so you are only saying that because monero transactions itself are huge?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or better, dont use a blockchaina at all 🧠

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if they expire after 1 year, you dont need a blockchain

<ravfx:xmr.mx> At least a user would be able to get namecoin to be able to resolv monero, there is that (would still put a break in adoption)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yes, because monero txs are huge, and private

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: as i said this applies to any ordinary monero transaction

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> any ordinary monero transaction is used for commerce

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: what do they resolve namecoin with lol

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and we accept the weight because of the privacy

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> you dont need privacy for some public message

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @eravsar:raubritter.org: Something they can find on normal internet using normal DNS?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> okay you are right about that

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: do the same for monero

<ravfx:xmr.mx> yeah, that was the initial point (why monero use cockflare instead of there own DNS)

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: xns is not made to download monero software

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: i didnt answer to that message, someone started talking about it and topic got detailed

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: yeah about that you are right. but there is no other blockchain network that's decentralized as good as monero. so maybe worth the trouble.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> worth it to you. not people who have to download this shit on their wallets or nodes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> on a public blockchain, its not as bad. look at bsv, they just added the whole monero source tree on their blockchain

<eravsar:raubritter.org> removing txextra wont fix that though. and any dust transaction results in the same thing. why especially make xns the scapegoat

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i have to scan and "decrypt" your public messages

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> for the same reason this room is not encrypted, is the reason why storing public data in an encrypted storage is nonsensical

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its simply waste

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> waste of space, waste of compute, for EVERY person who interacts with the blockchain, not just consumers of your product

<eravsar:raubritter.org> there is no public blockchain with randomx pow sadly. only if monero had transparent transactions... jk

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and the space and compute is not negligible. it might be for your service alone, but imagine if every service in 2026 decided the best place to stuff arbirary data was into the tx

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> wownero will have randomx soon

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or there is that exploited garbage zephyr

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: difference is blockchain is a necessity for decentralized names. it is a justified cancer

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> also, why randomx? this is the type of thing that is good for PoS chains

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it is not a justified cancer. it is stupid to store public data on a private blockchain

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> again, i bring up p2pool and particl/basicswap

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i never understood PoS.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> randomx is so that it can actually be decentralized even with little effort. even for small networks.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> neither of them needs to store data on the base blockchain for data that is temporary

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: xns data has to be permanent

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> smsg / particl lets you extend the life of the data by paying for it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they have a whole ass marketplace that runs on smsg. shares the underlying blockchains consensus, but stores nothing on the blockchain

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the onnly people that decrypt the messages, are the people who they are addressed to

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> particl also has ringct, ct, and transparent mode (w/ segwit). blockchains exist for non-monetary usages. private blockchains are the least ideal, lowest viability, and worst experience for doing so

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> you have stuff like zano as well. why not use zano

<eravsar:raubritter.org> paying with what? their own blockchain currency? leads to same outcome > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> smsg / particl lets you extend the life of the data by paying for it

<eravsar:raubritter.org> interesting > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they have a whole ass marketplace that runs on smsg. shares the underlying blockchains consensus, but stores nothing on the blockchain

<lordx3nu:matrix.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: Irrelevancy?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it doesnt lead to same outcome, because the txs are 200 bytes and transparent (very little compute)

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: still not as established as monero. look i get all your concerns but i am saying xns itself is not that catastrophic (since any dust transaction can lead to same thing). maybe it is not the most elegant way to handle this but tradeoffs just make sense for me. it is not even about tx_extra at all.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its about storing public data on a private blockchain, and forcing every participant to unravel your spam

<eravsar:raubritter.org> people know and use monero. it already has the decentralized consensus needed for this purpose. it has the liquidity. it has everything. at return you get decentralized dns. meanwhile "risking" to bloat the blockchain, meanwhile anything can do that. yeah it is not most elegant to have something public in a private thing, but really is it that bad?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yes, it is that bad

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if it wasnt, there wouldnt have been week, years of debates about nuking txextra

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: any dust transaction unravels a spam, whether it is necessary or not. at least with this there is a minimum burn amount

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-project/monero #6668

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: the debates were mostly concerned about decoy elimination afaik, which is solved with fcmp that they even work on carrot now, accepting that public and private parts of the blockchain can be considered as isolated from another. that's why keeping tx_extra is finalized with fcmp, am i wrong?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> no, they werent

<eravsar:raubritter.org> look, this is not a big deal, i am not insisting on this is the most elegant solution. i am just saying it is not that catastrophic, not the end of the world, and what you get in return is just beautiful. small sacrifice.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> did you read the FIRST comment and the OPENING POST?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-project/meta #356#issuecomment-501347185

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> " Censoring "undesirable content" from an otherwise open platform. What I have mentioned above is only one of many possible attacks against tx_extra, so unless there is a compelling use case for tx_extra, its removal is the prudent course of action."

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> dns is not a compelling case

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its just a junk drawer and people, like you, stuff junk into it

<eravsar:raubritter.org> okay remove it then. press the button i am not holding you. why are you extracting your anger at me

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: also this is irrelevant

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> im not angry at you

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> moreso at everyone who insists on taking a dump inside of txextra

<eravsar:raubritter.org> if it's gonna be removed i am okay, xns will just stop existing. if it is going to exist using it like this is not that bad. no harm for others privacy. at worst it is redundant.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> after we debated for years and wanted it removed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> only to settle for a half-way compromise that limited it at relay level, and the next hard fork maked the limit consensus while also increasing the use of it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and as a result, we are already seeing increased uses of it, like eigen using it to send messages

<eravsar:raubritter.org> as far as i know tx_extra was made so there will be proper ways to store arbitrary data, instead of ugly ways like using dust transactions to encode content

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and you using it for dns

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> transactions we partially public and like 40kb at that time

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and the txextra was unbounded. it was only limited by the max tx size (100kb)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> which lead to some people putting, example, the entire mrl logs on chain just to show us how stupid we are for even debating it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> also put the bee movie script on chain, and hundreds or thousands of 100kb jpegs

<eravsar:raubritter.org> eigen's case is really stupid.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> difference is you would never invent a blockchain to achieve what eigen is trying to do.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> you would invent a blockchain to achieve dns thing, and they do.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> so this is the difference, xns wants to use monero as it is already well established for all the reasons i've been saying. it is already a legitimate requirement for a blockchain. your only argument would be that it is stupid to have public data in private chain, but it seems to be the way monero is going to evolve with carrot [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/vf6WiaILeVN4cDRm ]

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i hope xns dies, and txextra with it

<eravsar:raubritter.org> i am okay if tx_extra dies along with xns. but i believe it is useful

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its not simply bloat

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its compute

<eravsar:raubritter.org> you do the same compute for dust transactions

<eravsar:raubritter.org> is xns only to be blamed because it declares some rules on how a transaction is to be read?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> if so it doesn't make sense, as those rules at least require that transaction to have at least 0.01xmr burn

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yourrules might, what stops me from forking xns to yns and requiring 0.000000001xmr?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> then it is just any other dust transaction :D

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> a decentralized dust attack

<eravsar:raubritter.org> again you see it doesnt make any sense to oppose this. oppose dust transactions in general? how?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> instead of sending all of the dust from my own wallet, i can get thousands of people to submit lottery tickets

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> costs me nothing

<hughjank:matrix.org> Anyone got a funny feeling xmr is about to skyrocket and be out of reach to buy a coin soon?

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: sadly not...

<hughjank:matrix.org> Hope ur right

<hughjank:matrix.org> But im feeling opposite

<hughjank:matrix.org> It wont go down to 350

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> All of the physical stores in the US that take monero:

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/JVwhmrHOGBPZLIcvVopcmOra.png (image.png) > <@hughjank:matrix.org> Anyone got a funny feeling xmr is about to skyrocket and be out of reach to buy a coin soon?

<hughjank:matrix.org> thought it was gonnabe zero that didnt help

<hughjank:matrix.org> U just proved it works

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: I mean, I would expect a few.

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> I just don't think enough people know about it right now

<hughjank:matrix.org> The fact theres stores accepting is insane

<hughjank:matrix.org> Willing to risk fed eyes on em

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: true.

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: I went to any, I'd probably pay with monero though

<hughjank:matrix.org> Are u brave enough to tell me hm coins u got? Im not a fed

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: 1<x<2

<hughjank:matrix.org> Just wanna see how smart u are

<hughjank:matrix.org> even 1 u wilo be rich of u hodl

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: I don't want to put too much in... Also it's not the easiest to buy without kyc

<hughjank:matrix.org> Justhold 5 years

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> My first monero I bought as bitcoin with bisq and then swapped to monero.

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> Now I use haveno reto

<hughjank:matrix.org> I see

<hughjank:matrix.org> Trocadore work aswell

<hughjank:matrix.org> Fast if u alreasy got random coins

<hughjank:matrix.org> Insta swaps

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: true. I only have monero though (and like 10 cents of btc but that doesn't count)

<hughjank:matrix.org> We live in the prime time to swap fast ... once shtf lol gonnabe insane...

<hughjank:matrix.org> Insta swaps make xmr insanely rare

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: wdym?

<hughjank:matrix.org> During shtf price will show

<hughjank:matrix.org> Its a scaling model basically

<hughjank:matrix.org> At this time u can insta swap get insane amts of xme

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> but how do insta-swaps make xmr rare? You can do that with all cryptocurrencies, right?

<hughjank:matrix.org> But as time goes on it makes it insanely rare and if price jumps its game over

<hughjank:matrix.org> Its killing rarity slowly

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> Ah, ok.

<hughjank:matrix.org> Smart ppl are sucking it up

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> Every once in a while I see the monero price from like 2021 and then I become sad. (That I didn't buy it earlier).

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> I know it's for being used as actual currency and not for stock trading and investing but still... :(

<hughjank:matrix.org> Instant swaps for a fungible coin is a overpowered meta that shouldnt exist

<hughjank:matrix.org> Matthew kratter is a gatekeeper fed

<machineswillrise:matrix.org> didn't you say that haveno was kind of suspicious a while ago? > <@jacoblightning3:matrix.org> My first monero I bought as bitcoin with bisq and then swapped to monero.

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @machineswillrise:matrix.org: That was a long while ago but yes.

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> I trust it more now though

<machineswillrise:matrix.org> @jacoblightning3:matrix.org: what made it suspicious btw?

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> Iirc haveno was originally a fully-featured client but something happened to make haveno just a proof of concept and retoswap (haveno reto) seperated out to be the main client. Something like that?

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> It honestly might've just been the fact that retoswap was using haveno's name. I might be misremembering

<hughjank:matrix.org> Seller has ur name

<hughjank:matrix.org> Reto is a joke for that

<hughjank:matrix.org> Also sellers direct u to telegr

<hughjank:matrix.org> Red flag

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> Not necessarily. > <@hughjank:matrix.org> Seller has ur name

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> With something like cash by mail, you don't have to provide any info.

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: Never had this happen

<hughjank:matrix.org> Whydoesnt reto warn u never use telegram etc

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: I think it does

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> In the chat it says to not use external services

<hughjank:matrix.org> Ihad seller try to get me on telegram to talk

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: Interesting. Report them to the mediator then. I've never had any problems

<hughjank:matrix.org> Ur saying thats abannable offense?

<hughjank:matrix.org> also on sellerinfothey listtheir telegram

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: possibly. They're definitely not supposed to do that.

<hughjank:matrix.org> So odds are hes a fed since he openly discussed it on tg

<jacoblightning3:matrix.org> @hughjank:matrix.org: maybe. idk about that

<hughjank:matrix.org> All i know xmrvoid aka maverick is a red flag fed planning an exit scam

<hughjank:matrix.org> His tg is xmrsociety

<hughjank:matrix.org> Group chat not encrypted

ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: about eigenwallet, they inject 12+1+2+256 bytes into the nonce tag in tx extra, yep. encrypted, but recognizable. afaik the rest. The data is encrypted with the view private key of whatever they use for swaps, but size and structure is recognizable as they use quite nonstandard message sizes

02:13:28 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and is why i hate txextra

I still don't understand given we altered the output format, why we didn't move most tx extra fields onto the output, and fix the rest, afaik it's due a 2-out can use a single pub instead of two, at the cost of abuse in the form of storage. the rest of storage that is not needed for strictly wallet scanning should land in pruned sections tbh :)

and yep ofrnxmr it can also be directly detected blocks.p2pool.observer/tx/3d47a7a76…c58b9d48d0ec332afea9b3bafe4b6961d8c

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thanks dh

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Why there is not enforced encrypt+padding for txextra scam? At least they would all look the same

different things need different data amounts, though monero oxide has this utility that recommends that github.com/monero-oxide/monero-oxid…oxide/wallet/src/extra.rs#L312-L350

serai doesn't encrypt that, hermes does encrypt and pad

but ... it can still be recognized, ofc

you also cannot enforce encryption without being able to decrypt it (if it's symmetric)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: would also allow it to be used to send a short message to the receiver of some sort, payment reference or the like

<redsh4de:matrix.org> iirc that's what zec has

it's already used for that (legacy payment id, or encrypted payment id)

on tx extra nonce

<redsh4de:matrix.org> yeah, its just that using it as is for that has the distinguishability issue

it can be distinguished regardless as long as main wallet doesn't do the same thing with same useless extra data

zkesh?

<hughjank:matrix.org> rkesh aka rakesh is dectrantralized punjabi coin