Friendly reminder: community meeting tomorrow at 1700 UTC in this channel. Join us.

Agenda: monero-project/meta #599

Keiji would you like to moderate tomorrow? Seems like the other two guys might not be around.

If need be, I can step up to the plate. We can improvise tomorrow. No big deal.

Given I've advertised on Reddit and forum I might as well moderate. If you like you can do announcements and moderating next time if no one else wants to

Nah, no need to. All good.

Looking forward. Thanks.

About three or four good CCS to go over. Let's hope turnout is good enough for discussions.

there are at least two people who won't participate if the moderator is the individual above or if he keeps spamming the meeting like last time. so Keiji[m], please moderate accordingly and keep all comments on topic.

two people from different workgroups*

geonic: Ok. They weren't in last meeting so I don't know what the spam would look like: monero-project/meta #588#issuecomment-886088581

I must be remembering the first meeting

😂

What a great loss, two morons not participating in a community meeting. Glad I ignored that jerk.

Outreach and it's shit stirring nobodies.

Comical.

* Outreach and its shit stirring nobodies.

hm yeah. ErCiccione is definitely a "nobody from Outreach".. but yes, thank you for proving my point.

vtnerd are you planning on being at this meeting? There were some really good discussions on monero-lws about a week or so ago and it would be great to understand where this project is at/how it can be pushed forward/if help is needed

* vtnerd are you planning on being at this meeting? There were some really good discussions on monero-lws about a week or so ago and it would be great to understand where this project is at/how it can be pushed forward/if help is needed. Cc-ing SerHack 🙃

* vtnerd are you planning on being at this meeting? There were some really good discussions on monero-lws about a week or so ago and it would be great to understand where this project is at/how it can be pushed forward/if help is needed. Cc-ing SerHack 🙃

PSA: Matrix sucks 🙃

It really does

should rename this channel to #nebekenezer and get everyone off matrix. except that one person, he can rot there.

Man.. Can we leave the toxicity at the door please? Not sure it's necessary

I think there should have be a separate session/meeting or even room called 'monero beefs'. Where everyone can get together an articulate what they don't like about each other and projects. Airing dirty laundry is a healthy thing

* I think there should be a separate session/meeting or even room called 'monero beefs'. Where everyone can get together an articulate what they don't like about each other and projects. Airing dirty laundry is a healthy thing

* I think there should be a separate session/meeting or even room called 'monero beefs'. Where everyone can get together an articulate what they don't like about each other and or project related things. Airing dirty laundry is a healthy thing

sudo_ki[m]: Something geonic is very good at, let me tell you.

Records people without asking for consent and pulls off very targeted attacks. Pretty low.

<sudo_ki[m]> Man.. Can we leave the toxicity at the door please? Not sure it's necessary >>> I'm afraid that would be akin to asking a KKK member to politely stay at the door and not enter

Preaching to the choir; I'll let morons be morons and cancel them moving forward. End of the story.

Clearly there need to be some basic rules for monero beefs to work constructively

I miss the old days when avowed racists just wore white sheets.. it was easier to tell them apart. now these 4chan racists get so easily offended when they're called out

so convenient when they can hide behind a keyboard too :)

being cowards at heart, they also tend to just run away when confronted in person. but they're sooo talkative when they get behind their keyboard

Rule number 1. No hyperboles

and the hyperbole here is..?

I love Marshall Rosenberg. But I think we should start with this amazon.com/How-not-RACIST-racist-why/dp/B08BR259DQ

but you must assume that our racist friend is antisemitic too, so that video might cause more irreparable damage

anyway.. if he ever decides to open a CCS to deal with his daddy issues through therapy instead of spewing vitriol at minorities online, I'd happily donate

*/end of topic

i kinda liked it in here, helpful people, no degens shilling their scamcoins, but then kindergarden broke loose during the night apparently 🤣 no hate just sharing my outside eyeview

<pilotg[m]> "i kinda liked it in here, helpfu" <- Nothing wrong with a bit of drama and banter. It's crypto at the end of the day.

The error of some communities and projects is becoming too serious.

I confirm that if rottenwheel will be a moderator of a community meeting (or any other meeting), i won't be participating to the meeting and will actively boycott it.

For people who fall for his fake neutrality on this channel and haven't experienced his double face: He is a racist, homophobic, rude and overall horrible person that should never be in any position of influence in the community.

Me too!

In the Spanish Community Rotten say that if he will moderator/Admin he will ban people like me

This boy has repeatedly said that he has people like needmoney on his side and that one day he will be Admin in several Monero groups, and then he will ban Raas (current admin of the Monero group in Spanish) to Me and many other people who has told her truths to her face like racist

yeah and anyone who is ignoring the issue to avoid drama is actively part of the problem (and that's the majority, sadly. Even people who had to deal with his bullshit personally). FFS the guy regularly posts on twitter speaches from paramilitary nazi organizations, racist and anti-vax content, but people still give him the benefit of the doubt. Stop enabling him.

Link?

<Keiji[m]> "reddit.com/r/Monero..." <- This post is still awaiting mod approval, so most people cannot see it

sudo_ki: i'm sending by PM. The guy gets enough free visibility

I’m not sure what the people who continue to engage with him are hoping to accomplish at this point. Maybe the “Monero is for criminals” headlines are not enough? Let’s try actively encouraging racists & homophobes for good measure.

carrington[m]: dEBRUYNE: the problem is still there ^

geonic: that's what disappoints me the most. The same people who got insulted by him, the day after make jokes with him and encourage him. It's sad and pathetic.

<carrington[m]> "This post is still awaiting mod..." <- I've been pinging reddit mods about this for months and recently i got even told that the problem doesn't exists. You can only try to ping them until somebody unlocks the post

Maybe they think they can stay on his “good side” this way? It is pathetic.

Anyways, I have added a comment to the reddit post which will hopefully be helpful to people with the links to the CCS proposals

Seth please approve the community meeting reddit post

carrington: if too long has passed since you did the post, i suggest to delete it, create a new one and ask the mods to unlock that one. Or better, wait for a reddit mod to be online so they can unlock it straight away. That's how i did in past

<carrington[m]> "This post is still awaiting mod..." <- Really? I could've sworn I even upvoated it earlier.

7 upvotes and 2 comments. Seems to be approved and up in the subreddit for me.

Keiji little suggestion. You can just add an item to the agenda that reads like this, for example:

c) CCS proposals

Huh shows as approved to me now

And when you hit that item, you just pull up the CCS site section under ideas and start copying and pasting titles.

That way you don't clutter the agenda with each CCS idea. Just my two cents.

Once you copy and paste x title, we can begin discussing such CCS proposal.

Direct link doesn't show the "awaiting mod approval" banner but I can't see the post on the subreddit front page. Definitely seems to be some issues with getting stuff onto the Monero reddit

<carrington[m]> "Direct link doesn't show the "aw" <- Hmm.

I also don't see the post about the meeting in r/Monero

_This post is currently awaiting approval by the moderators of r/Monero before it can appear in the subreddit._

So is this a technical issue with the Monero subreddit or is it simply a matter of unresponsive mods? And reddit mods here who can give some insight?

Meeting in about one hour right?

<msvb> "Meeting in about one hour right?" <- Yep! (･ิω･ิ)

I wish reddit mods could put certain people on 'allowlist' that ignores karma and account age checks

Welcome to August's Community Meeting!

- Greetings

Hello.

Hi

Hi

hi

- Community highlights

Does anyone have anything to highlight now that Revuo is no longer printed?

Hi

It sounds like maybe not. Let's move to CCS discussion then

Hello

- " ajs would like to adjust terms of xmr radio CCS after taking it over"

ajs, please discuss what you would like to change

hi

so for a quick status update on XMR.radio

$4,524.98 was released from the Monero.FM CCS to pay for start up costs for 1 year and buy MP3s

Here is the up to date income statement itemizing all expenses

Current cash on hand balance is $2,179.49

We’ve made $67.92 in sales and received $98.72 in donations

ATH of 58 listeners was reached during the Defcon broadcast and numbers have declined since then to around 10-20 daily listeners

Haha "land line"

we are old school

Hi

Call us: +1 (702) 899-6040

A well-known VPN service has reached out to us about advertising on the station. However, they asked us to get back to them once we have over 100 daily listeners.

And a few artists listed their albums for sale in XMR.radio store

It was sad for me to find out I cannot listen to the radio without using a VPN. I hope we can solve that licensing issue in the future. Monero and its community is truly international.

We can call the land line? That's great.

Who answers if I call it?

anhdres: unfortunately, licensing is done country by country

station is currently licensed for US, Canada, and UK

station is also broadcasting via Tor

on the adjustment issue, you can find details here reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/p3mtnn…scope_xmrradio_monero_community_run

However, seeing the numbers have fizzled out last few weeks, I am not sure it is a good idea to establish an LLC

I didn't even know xmr.radio was a thing. Would be great to figure out some ways to spread the word. Will definitely be tuning in now

costs are covered for the 1st year and we can run this thing a few more months before deciding to go the LLC route

I've been happy with that I've seen so far on the radio station

It will be cool to see what comes of it in the future

Maybe a text to speech thing calling out the block height every hour or so

msvb-lab: it does to voice mail

Or any other stats from time to time

*goes

Is there anything regular mortals can do to help get more listenership?

anhdres: like a numbers station

I can try and get it added to the 4chan biz general 🙃

* I can try and get it added to the 4chan biz /xmr/ general 🙃

ajs_[m]: Exactly. The more it sounds like one the best haha

90s internet vibes for sure

crypto_grampy: that would be great

We can also try to cut snippets of monero interviews or talks to put in between x amount of songs, like sentences from Daniel Kim's talks for example

we are looking for DJ and Podcasters to fill in slots

so you any, point them our way

*know

so we can table LLC issue until things pick up

ajs_: what terms exactly do you want to adjust?

m2049r: to use left over funds from CCS to incorporate an LLC

and pay for some marketing

So ok to discuss Monerujo SideKick CCS now?

okay

OK, since LLC issue is tabled, let's move to discussion on repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/247

It is currently in Ideas Phase

m2049r: Any things you want feedback on in particular?

not really - i would be glad to answer any questions though

I saw several people mention doing qr's over bluetooth. Is there any reason why Bluetooth is prioritized?

I see that both are in the ccs

because it's easy - and qr codes is a usability nightmare! i have been working on audio comms for the past week ( sounds like a fax machine)

and normal people can make a simple audio coupler with two headphones

unfortunately, usb comms is impossible with android

I personally feel like I want an airgapped device to be quite airgapped

No wires, no signals, but that's just me perhaps

We used Monerujo NFC in the village at Defcon, which seems to work great and replaces QRs viewable by surveillance.

yes, i will be looking into nfc as well

But the encoding is not directly compatible with General Bytes ATM machine NFC encodings (for our badges.)

luigi mentioned the hourly rate. maybe we can touch on that? “This proposal has a lot of support, and I'm willing to merge as is. However, I would like some feedback on the hourly ask as it seems outside the norm.”

too high or too low?

I'm sure he ment too low

RIGHT?

Nice try.

Sorry I cannot help me, back to serious meeting

$127/hr for the PoC work does seem a bit on the high end

i think we are happy to adjust rates as the community sees fit

<m2049r[m]> "and normal people can make a sim" <- I would say more people have functioning Bluetooth over functioning cameras, or phones with audio jacks or NFC chips as well. Just to add 🤗

geonic: now, yes. who knows whats in 3 months

crypto_grampy: yep.

I wonder what happened to the idea of guaranteeing rates through the GF and having any excess go to it as well as shortfalls covered by it

Any other questions people would like answered?

btw, does anything like this exist for Bitcoin atm?

geonic: for the station at least, to avoid this issue, I converted XMR to USDC right away

there are some solutions, but they can't be compared since in btc you can build an entire transaction without access to keys

geonic: One way to guarantee rates is by converting the raise to a stable asset

MAGIC does this

did ajs go through MAGIC?

no

so how does this work? Payout needs to be made in advance of the work performed?

i converted on my own account

fwiw i’d be OK with this option for monerujo’s proposal

if that helps with volatility concerns

and with capital gains tax

m2049r: maybe state the actual rates you would like to receive and make it payable upon funding?

make it payable upon funding?

yes. rather than waiting 3 months and absorbing the volatility

ah - we were going for 100 eur/h for dev & 60 eur/h for design stuff

There are about 8 minutes left. I would like to be fair to the Workgroups and give them a chance to announce updates, and then we can come back to sidekick discussion

- Daemon/CLI workgroup, any updates you'd like to share?

- Localization workgroup, any updates you'd like to share?

(Just trying to speed things along, sorry)

Since we have a Village meeting right after

m2049r[m]: Do you want one or not? Look in your dms.

Sorry! In that case, are there any Workgroups who'd like to share anything at all?

Is it OK to go back to sidekick discussion since there's no Workgroup summaries? Any other questions?

Ok, sounds like maybe not. Again, sorry for long meeting. 😥 Do people want Community meeting in another 2 weeks or another 4 weeks?

is there anything still open on the sidekick ccs?

Is the implementation going to be easily addable for other wallets to interact with?

yes,

Like a standalone library?

they only need to implement the transport (bluetooth or whatever)

its completely compatible with the current ledger impleemtation)

its in the monero codenase (if the monero devs choose to take it - otherwise its in our monero fork)

*codebase

so you could have ghe official gui use it. or cake. or whatever

Awesome

:)

poc code is open or not yet ?

not yet.

still dirty, but can share if you want to see it

i have to go now. thanks to all & esp. to Keiji for moderation

Is there going to be any sort of audit for this code?

Again, sorry for the slow and long meeting. I will try to do better next time orz

crypto_grampy: we want to have a serious audit for this as a separate ccs when its done.

also XMR.radio is streaming 'Slowed Motion' screwed and chopped hip-hop mix at @ 2PM PDT (21 UTC) today straight out out dirty dirty south

and Hydrogen Lab #2 Live DJ Set with RYIT at 7PM PDT (02:00 UTC) spinning Psytrance

Is it my current area that makes the xmr.radio play button greyed out?

msvb-lab: try VPN or Tor

I think the meeting is officially over since there are no comments for 5 minutes. Thanks everyone for your patience this week and attending

Okay ajs_[m], I didn't need to do that in the version (without very nice graphics) before Defcon. But maybe the system changed since then.

yeah, geoblocking is enabled now

tx Keiji for moderating. I think 4 weeks is a good cadence

Thanks for your feedback on next meeting time! (^^♪

<geonic> "btw, does anything like this..." <- Here's one for ETH that uses QR codes github.com/r001/airsign

Has the issue of 'competitive advantage' been discussed? Will sidekick be easily integrate-able into other wallets? will monerujo enjoy a period of exclusivity?

plowsof: no exclusivity. open source as always. can be integrated into other wallets as long as the transport (bluetooth, audio, whatever) is implemented on their end.

"... but can share if you want to see it" yes and another question: can you decomposite this app into components ? what is the hardest part ?

Thanks @Keiji for the moderation

<Keiji[m]> "Does anyone have anything to hig" <- I will eventually take Revuo on; just not yet. FYI.

<m2049r[m]> "because it's easy - and qr codes" <- Why? Lol. I have at least 3 hww that do PSBT w/ bitcoin. It's two simple scans, one from your mobile wallet, another from your HWW. Nonsense.

Might be a usability nightmare because of how heavey XMR txs. are, that I may accept, but QR codes are far from being a usability nightmare.

<crypto_grampy[m]> "I personally feel like I want an" <- Yes; this.

I want an android QR hardware wallet on my desk by Monday

unsigned_tx -> binary string data -> QR code -> scanned by android -> signed_tx -> converted to a QR code -> scanned and submitted by the wallet

The Monero CEO and board members want results!

<plowsof[m]> "I want an android QR hardware wa" <- Geonic, your alt is showing.

Hello,

Looking for a wallet.keys file that had funds in the 2017-2018 time range to run some experiments re: the newly disclosed selection algo bug (attempting to reproduce j-berman's method j-berman/monero #2). Obviously it can & should be empty now but if anyone has an old wallet that was active then, I'd appreciate it.

Not trying to claim your Monero V / Classic, if that's a concern just claim it first.

If anyone can donate one. I'd appreciate it!

Will the general fund wallet be suitable for your needs (view only)

plowsof[m]: No, for the purpose of recreating the methodology I'd need a wallet that had on-chain funds at that time and can generate test txs when I roll back the blockchain to that height