<Rucknium[m]> "Is anyone aware of any data on..." <- What exactly do you think the real economy is lol

jwinterm: I'm referring to debtors on DeFi purchasing production equipment or paying workers' wages. Production equipment examples would be kitchen equipment, new office buildings or factories, machine tools, robots, various raw materials, computer equipment and physical servers, etc.

I think it would be hard to parse that out, and impossible to guesstimate whether there is more loans strictly for financial speculation in defi or oldfi

I guess we can assume oldfi

There's a lot of publicly-accesible aggregate data about that for OldFi. Central banks generally maintain it since they need to know what's going on as far as loans within the economies that they operate in.

No so much for DeFi as far as I know, however.

Top three on terms of total locked value allow users to earn yield in stable coins in excess of any traditional finance account except maybe some risky bonds dappradar.com/defi

Doubt people are buying robots and kitchen equipment much, but is earning yield beyond inflation by lending somehow not real

People like to speculate, institutions speculate at massive scale

What I am interested in is the debtor side, not the side of people earning interest. What are people doing with the loans?

Just because defi isn't loaning $100k to jimbobs construction business doesn't mean it's not creations "real" value

Speculating on shitcoins in large part

I would guess

jwinterm: I guess I should have specified. I am using "real" in the technical sense of the word:

>The real economy concerns the production, purchase and flow of goods and services (like oil, bread and labour) within an economy. It is contrasted with the financial economy, which concerns the aspects of the economy that deal purely in transactions of fiat money and other financial assets, which represent ownership or claims to ownership of real sector goods and services.

>In the real economy, spendings are considered to be "real" as money is used to effect non-notional transactions, for example wages paid to employees to enact labour, bills paid for provision of fuel, or food purchased for consumption.

Fair enough, but the world gets less and less real each year that goes by

If you leverage eth holdings to take a loan on defi to pay contractor in other country under the table to help you build a new app, is it real?

Yes, I would consider that 100% real. Something real is produced. In this case, a service, essentially.

That is probably minority of cases, but no one reporting to central bank, so hard to tell

Defi loans are different than traditional loans in that they are overcollateralized also

So not really even the same thing

I am open to the idea that there is some substantial activity like you describe. I am just wondering if there is any type of data on it, so we might a get a sense of magnitudes.

No one requires paperwork because everything is overcollateralized

Lenders can't really lose

Well, unless there is a hack or the stablecoin loses its peg. I think the high interest rate for lenders is in part a risk premium,

Personally, I am not impressed wit the high interest rates since it just looks like compensation for risk to me, which is just classic credit economics.

Yea, there is certainly risk if price of base asset moves dramatically, but it is still more in the borrower side AFAIK

IANAEE

I am not an eth economist

I am an economist, but not an ETH-specific one, I suppose.

We doing monero defi now?

What did I miss?

I think some people want it. I don't see it happening, though. At least, no changes to the Monero protocol to specifically enable it.

jwinterm[m]: It was just a question on my mind. DeFi is hot right now, but I don't think it's all it's cracked up to be.

NFTs are hot, defi was hot like a year ago

I mean, still pretty warm

I think people rejecting things that have proven to be money magnets is silly

It's hot in a political sense. Coinbase's proposed DeFi (or was it CeFi?) was blocked by the SEC and now people are upset.

Yea that wasn't defi at all