Do you think anyone would be interested in a plug and play monero+p2pool node? The cheapest option would maybe cost ~180€ with more expensive ones up to 250

All the user would have to do is plug it in and forward 1 port

That sounds pretty neat

I could do that price and include a phone

Lol ok

What sort of device were you thinking of monerobull @monerobull:monero.social:

Rock pi 4

Sounds interesting

(Im not in the hw business)

Okok. Yeah that sounds solid

This would be for non-technical people who never even heard of things like SSH

I have one myself and the PiNodeXMR software is really solid once every is set up

s/every/everything/

Bull, have you tried the termux node (android)?

I once built xmrig from source and mined on termux but i haven't run a node on it

I had thought of buying low priced android 7 devices + SD cards and doing the same. But said "too much work".

SD cards also get chewed up by Blockchain stuff

Flash storage is flash storage

I think the pinode Dev said they last about a year

Write cycles depend on the sync mode used and the size of the card

Safe, for example, does more writes than fast:async

And a 512gb card can write 50gb twice as many times as a 256gb card

But all flash storage is limited by write cycles

(Which is why I recommend against using internal storage unless you dont care about eventually bricking the device)

This is what the most expensive node would look

Like

Nice.

Case isn't a necessity though

You can probably get away using cheapo dram-less nvme drive

How much write per day you need for monero, probably really not that much

Not much, thought about a cheap 30€ Samsung SSD

2TB crappy Intel 660 should last 5 years if you write 400GB per day

so it should last forever in a monero node (until you get to fill it with XMR blockchain)

I'd have to do some more research on the SSD, currently just probing for interest

s/660/670p/

Samsung 970 EVO 2TB have 1200TB endurance (so you can write like 6-700GB a day during 5 years. So expect 100 years for a more respectable 35GB per day). Will surely die for other thing than endurance before that.

monerobull[m]: Do, Endurance are nice now because good wear leveling algorithm and high capacity

Honestly any SSD larger than 500GB will do for a long time

I personally use a 1TB Western Digital blue SSD

I do have 1 WD Black Nvme, 1 HP EX950 NVME, and finally one Chia coin abused Samsung SM951 512GB (it's a 2016 drive, I began abusing it for Chia, stopped abusing it when usage was at 98%, about a year ago. Now using it for gaming, usage still 98% lol)

The only SSD that caused me real trouble is the Patriot Warp 2 I got a very long time ago (2008 era piece of crap)

<wheezybackports> "Honestly any SSD larger than..." <- Even a 256gb will last a couple more years, it would be the default option to keep price as low as possible but more storage optionally available

Should be 512GB imo

minimum, as you say, you want the node to last a couple of years without upgrading the default

You can get any shitty DRAM less SSD and pre-provision the blockchain in.

and put the OS in a 16GB SD card or something like that

Are we talking pruned or full?

That's the plan, pre-synced nodes, ready to go

Full

Pruned I think 256 is ok. But that a full should imo be > 2x the blockchain size if its going to be sold

Yeah I guess you're right

Would push it over 200€ though:/

So perhaps a cheaper option, pruned nodes, and a full node option

Full node option can come with a pruned node is so desired..

If* so

Idk if i want to sell pruned nodes tbh

Why?

They aren't as useful

In what manner?

480GB Crucial BX500 is like 45$ on amazon

Aren't they worse for privacy since they need data from peers?

it's a crap drive for an OS but it will work just fine for a node (if it's pre-provisionned, else it will take more time to sync than a decent SSD)

Needs to be nvme to work with the rockpi

Pruned nodes sync full blocks and then prune them.

They are fully verifying nodes just like full nodes.

If you also enable sync-pruned-blocks then you will sync old blocks that have been verified by another pruned node.

New blocks (tip of chain) are always synced as full blocks. No reliance on any other node

The issue is, if a full node is trying to sync blocks from a pruned node, it needs (at least) 7 other pruned nodes to build the full chain.

In theory, the network can run on 100% pruned nodes

Hm

monerobull[m]: Team Group MP33

al800 @al800:0wnz.at: thoughts on the Western Digital SN550

Note: Some people have suggested that the BTC network slowdown is due to low-performance Raspberry Pi BTC nodes:

Both are DRAM-less but the MP33 is cheaper

> <@rucknium:monero.social> Note: Some people have suggested that the BTC network slowdown is due to low-performance Raspberry Pi BTC nodes:

> blog.lopp.net/is-bitcoin-network-slowing-down

The rockpi is plenty quick

Raspberries are slow af though

I would recommend running the Seraphis performance tests on hardware that you plan to use:

> <@rucknium:monero.social> Note: Some people have suggested that the BTC network slowdown is due to low-performance Raspberry Pi BTC nodes:

> blog.lopp.net/is-bitcoin-network-slowing-down

Rucknium: how about the # of nodes for the period last year vs this one. Isnt bitcoin like, flat

More users + same network = congestion

> <@rucknium:monero.social> I would recommend running the Seraphis performance tests on hardware that you plan to use:

> monero-project/research-lab #91

I'll do that

Rucknium: the seraphis performance numbers are where I argue pruned nodes will be needed if we get a lot of volume

ofrnxmr: Could you clarify your point? The BTC block size is the same last year and this year. Mempool may be a bit different, but some nodes choose not to keep mempool.

I remember reading last year that the number of full nodes on bitcoin was ~ 10k with 100k listening nodes

This year I read 10k full nodes with 150k listening nodes

50% more listening nodes relying on the full nodes, isnt that a cause for sync slowdown?

(Im Asking, not telling )

Thanks for the discussion, if you have anything else, comment on the reddit post, I'm going to sleep now :)

I've had to sync BCH and BTC nodes from genesis a few times recently. The BCH nodes seem to sync about 50% faster (up until August 2017). That could point to slow BTC network for initial block download.

>50% more listening nodes relying on the full nodes, isnt that a cause for sync slowdown?

Could be, yes.

All I am saying to monerobull is "be careful". Make sure the plug-and-play nodes can keep up if transaction volume increases.

Alright, thanks for the input :)

Current requirements are under 25kbps

CPU verification of Monero transactions are much more computationally expensive than bitcoin transactions. That would be the bottleneck I would be concerned about.

Yes, I kept that in mind

I timed how long it took to verify full blocks, vs how long it took to download them, and kept a padding room of 1 minute (dont want to always be 1 block behind)

On my slowest device*

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Rucknium: the seraphis performa..." <- Pruned nodes still need to verify all the data, so the cpu requirements are the same. Pruning only affects storage space requirements. You verify the whole tx, then discard some of the data before writing to disk

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Pruned nodes sync full blocks and then prune them.... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…1a73b5228bbd9a91e3a707ebc7d9dfc4432)

Pruning also allows you to use less bandwidth during sync when using --sync-pruned-nodes, though I don't know how much bandwidth gets saved and how it exactly works.

--sync-pruned-blocks

meeting today in ~5 hours , ill remind an hour before again as its at a weird time / day, and update any last minute ccs proposal ideas, Monero Moon has just posted theirs for example monero-project/meta #723

luigi making us work on weekends , cruel :'(

<plowsof> "luigi making us work on weekends..." <- cruel, but fair

this song is the nature of us, with a needed turnabout in outcome

Rage against the machine

ofrnxmr[m]: my favorite lyrics are "shake your hands and march around, but don't take what you need"

with monero, you grasp our future

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Rage against the machine..." <- I see a mad face. yeah they putz up. but they literally tried to do something real no other band has.

they put a free show on at the height of their fame just to give people a chance to toss themselves upon the wheels, upon the gears, upon all the aparatus to make the machine stop

* I see a mad face. yeah they putz up. but they literally tried to do something real no other band has.

they put a free show on at the height of their fame just to give people a chance to toss themselves upon the wheels, upon the gears, upon the levers, upon all the aparatus to make the machine stop

and what do you bring to the table IRS:

Careful Martian, they are on IRC

greetings

Greetings

Salutations.

Hi

hi meeting time

my goal is to merge or close 80% of these by the time we're done here

:)

hi

am i the Unknown moderator?

moderate away. I don't know what else you want to talk about, if anything.

ETH<->XMR swaps thing was closed already as its funded by MAGIC .. 1st step toward the goal

right slets just get some community highlights and jump into the ccs ideas

3. Community highlights

also can someone ban luigi for interrupting my meeting

thanks

[MineXMR closing August 13th](minexmr.com)

Minexmr closing on the 12th* which is imo not good for hashrate during the 720blocks after readjustment

plowsof: ETH<>XMR atomic swaps are not yet funded by MAGIC. The status is: in discussions to have a fundraising campaign for it.

glhf

1GH yesterday, 989mh today

thanks for clarifying

Hello

more info on magic here -> [MAGIC grants](reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w5g49a…ng_a_ccs_proposal_check_to_see_if_a)

Can confirm what Rucknium[m] said, with the distinction it is moving forward at this time and not an equal possibility ("discussions")

ofrnxmr[m]: oh I thought you were saying p2pool had 1 GH and I was like, "no way"

also if we didn't know its actually donation week, funded by MajesticBank (ends this sunday) [MajesticBank Donation week](reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/w82bl3…week_use_majesticbank_and_help_fund)

i wanted to put up some donation pages for devs/contributors in need of hardware (as i thought this would be an easy goal to fund) and only 2 reached out to me (1 does not wish to go public with it) more info @ p2pcrowd.fund

MAGIC is a 3rd party?

MAGIC is US-based non-profit organization

aremor[m]: magicgrants.org

but, who is first party anyway?

who is 2nd?

49 minutes left, funny fellas.

5. [CCS updates](ccs.getmonero.org)

a. [[monero-bash] continued development (3 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/333)

So my point is, it’s a centralized 3rd party that is processing payments. So there’s tax implications?

hinto is the proposer, and has already completed 1 previous ccs

yes you get tax deductions I think

aremor[m]: MAGIC is favorable for donors compared to CCS, at least in the USA

aremor: Yes. The tax implication is that any donors who have U.S. tax obligations get a tax credit for donation to a nonprofit. It's the opposite of what you're guessing.

Re monwrobash

1.0 stops working and 2.0 doesnt exist without ccs?

i think p2pool related proposals are more relevant now considering the minexmr closing down news

ofrnxmr: v1.x.x versions will still work

although i will stop maintaining them

Why the increase in rate?

Rucknium: sorry if I’m getting in the way. But what’s the implications for the developer? There will be a W4 filed for them?

my positive input for hintos last ccs proposal was that after being funded he completed the work quickly, and continued working on it (judging by his github commits)

continuing to maintain it turned out to be a lot more work than I first thought

i also think my first ccs price might have set a precedent for small requests for funding

compared to other proposals i think it's an ok price :D

aremor: jwinterm knows the details.

you don't say how many hours you think it'll take though?

too soon to reach a consensus on this proposal?

it'll take max the duration of the ccs so 3 months

To do what?

aremor[m]: I think we would normally do 1099 but tbh I'm not 100% off hand

3months of work or a few hours of work over 3 months

ofrnxmr: everything listed in the milestones

specify exact hours / hourly rate and we can re-evaluate?

luigi1112: pretty much constant work until it's finished and then continued maintenance when needed

That doesnt seem like 3 months if work

well it's also not 3 months of pay

10xmr/mo

jwinterm: ok. Devs shouldn’t probably be properly informed because they accept proposals on MAGIC. But potential implications. Full US taxes might be up to 40% depending on tax bracket and lots of other things

anyway it has no votes or comments so I'm not going to do anything with it presently

Hi all, sorry to late!

consensus: specify hours / hourly rate - generate some feedback (votes/comments) ?

I'd like to start from the bottom if we can. Afghan thing

close it?

ok

spirobels afghan proposal

Hours per item would be nice.

ofrnxmr[m] agreed

ok, will edit the ccs

even just rough estimates

thanks

Close it - spirobel

Missed every meeting

great

done. Translations....

I still do not like tr ccses much at all

plowsof: there was an issue in monero transaltions group

296 and 335

Im notnsure thebdetails.. I think mj and his referral?

aremor[m]: Afaik the money going to the developer would be treated as income whether it came from magic as a payment for 1099 contracting or from ccs without any formal contact

But it is beneficial from donor perspective

:+1:

which one is 335 sec

spanish tr

new spanish one now that he got paid for last one

i have no idea about this proposal, im only aware of a shortage of translators to verify the work of translators... and yes ofrnxmr there is another tr proposal brewing for greek / korean

there is an existing one for greek, though IDK the overlap

they come up with a crazy amount of material to translate

but yeah the difficulty reviewing and the fact that it's basically volunteer work makes the whole thing almost unworkable

close the old greek one my vote

we brought on a "tr coordinator" but then he was afk a long time

Should just establish a practice of only supporting Esperanto, no English available even

Obvs

I'm kinda of the mind to disallow any translation CCSes pending redesign

Ive have no useful comments on tl.

+1 for dissalow further tr proposals pending redesign

jwinterm[m] can you be coordinator?

Well, id agree with that

any others?

Shoutout to Google translate for helping me through all these translation ccs’s

just a small edit to the "how to" ccs page and smooth sailing

the tr coordinator netrik182 himself says that translations are meant to be freefly submitted by the members of the community via weblate

Disallow & closing 296 & 335 with the edit in the how to page, my two mili piconeros.

ah it's what is ccs page

next one luigi?

plowsof: i think the general lack of reviewers makes it very slow

indeed

i submitted some translation via weblate many months ago that i don't think have been touched

ok

bulk translation via a ccs might be easier to process, but idk

patronero was discussed in a prev meeting - rucknium suggested the totel cost of funding the ccs would be more than it would ever raise for donators

and not much activity in the comments there.. i vote close

total*

What is difference between this, bash, Seth docker, termux node?

Except for price

Seconded

its been 3 months since any comment on that one , rip

I want to say in my defense that I have not only translations, we also do voice over for videos and transcripts of all speeches from monero conf and we support the work xmr.ru for 5 years already

internet folks are here so I might lose connection for a bit

v1 is an old timer for sure

:(

bit unique

I don't have any insight into whether what he's doing is of value or not, but he's certainly been doing it a long time drama free

s/of value/worth the cost

ofrnxmr: patronero seems like a more beginner friendly 1-click solution to p2pool mining

although the author has been MIA for a while

Is there any reason v1 ccs is urgent ATM? I know its scheduled to he started in august. but can it wait?

ok we are down to 9 (7 after the 2 tr ccs)

SeedSigner - great concept, why wouldnt we want it, hourly rates are a bit sus imo though , and the feasibility of obtaining the hardware for the quoted price

Termux node has p2pool, onion stratum user friendly setups.

Maybe I should up my price significantly

plowsof: They said they'd come up with a beta release but no update since, as highlighted by last hinto[m]

I have problems with publishing reports on reddit

unless I misunderstood something.

id like to see a proof of concept showing data rate transfer speeds on the hardware he intends on using via qrcode / cameras

reddit stubbornly blocks my reports, I tried to contact the moderators and they confirmed that it is reddit that blocks all reports and links :(

i vote close then on seedsigner until he comes back with a beta PoC thanks dukenuken didnt see

np. Second the sentiment.

yes of course i can wait for august

Third

agreed, cool concept but author disappeared

Garlix .io - the devs/creators themseves said here on matrix that they would close that proposal because things such as hotshop exist (the web wallet point of sail thing for monero)

sail->sale

plowsof can you comment sometime with that sentiment?

oh you voted close

ok

Close

will give it a day or so since hinto just asked 2hrs ago

Something like SeedSigner (or Monerujo's Sidekick) seems useful since users rely too much on Ledger and Trezor updates when we hard fork. But yes I would like more proof of feasibility before pushing it to funding.

garlix!

close vote for garlix

+1

Definitely

Selstas new ccs - +1 merge

plowsof: you are now a mod of this channel, congrats 🎉

Merge

+1 merge to selsta's CCS

jwinterm: your point makes sense but there is a difference. The difference is your personally identifiable information has to be shared with additional groups which means it’s possible for it to leak easier. The Twitter leak for 54 million people this past week is an example. Centralized groups are notoriously not good as safeguarding private information

vote no on garlix

monero moon - i gave a thumbs down simply because his rates are double that of monero observers

i already think MO should ask for more, but this just seems unfair

selsta's will get merged after the appropriate period

I suppose that is true aremor:

we need to talk about solopts merge request , this is important

yep

Yeah, no

Solo opt. Split milestones. No

in my opinion, if you sign up for a ccs As a team , with milestones to pay out as a team, then , you can't just complete your part and get paid out, you must get your team mate over the finish line

you then have an excuse to abandon it, because hey, you're paid.. not your problem anymore

not a good precedent to set either modifying milestones after being funded

what is the context on this one?

And he already banked money to attend meeting and count hours

Dishonest at its best

mj has completed part of the work for some milestones so he wants to extract his pay out of them (these milestones where a team effort)

No.

his team mate is not yet finished with their tasks

"Split milestones 3 & 4 into (3.1+3.2) & (4.1+4.2) for individual devs" -- wait, what? No, you do not unilaterally alter the terms of the contract. That's the opposite of why we have contracts.

Originally he was supposed to oversee endor and ensure the work was completed

i vote no - milestones are 'set in stone' - complete it as a whole to receive payment

I think that makes sense

I vote nay

FWIW I concur. Milestones exist precisely to be as objective as possible binary yes-or-no, you made it and got paid.

mj sort of set this CCS up as an opportunity to mentor endor, i.e. increase overall skill level among Monero devs/community members. The splitting of payouts is not consistent with the mentoring idea.

I vote, any more of this nonsense the ccs is cancelled and funds forfeit

my logic was basically mj wants to be paid and endor doesn't seem to care, therefore leaving them together makes the milestone more likely to be completed in a reasonable time

logic for leaving them linked

yep, get your team mate over the finish line or you get nothing

I am not familiar with this specific proposal really, but I definitely feel somewhat for the person who does work and then can't get paid if their teammate didn't do anything. But still, it's not really fair to just pay for a partial proposal for nothing to come of it

sgp[m] his argument is they are sort of doing parallel work and so "something" comes of it even if only one part is completed, I think

even so.... that's not really a healthy situation to put you in

The originally ccs says

Should Endor not make it until the deadline, I guarantee, that I will finalize the project by myself until the coming winter.

No splitting.

my preference would be they figure it out amongst themselves

agree

to clarify, we did not vote to remove xmr.ru's proposal - infact we did not have time to discuss it , unless?

this is to be treated as not a generic transslations proposal, as the proposor is a long time serving member

video translations / community etc

leave it up longer to generate some more interaction / feedback?

+1 for v1, translation work is hard + finding long-time translators is even harder

most of my translations are focused on Monero research papers

need some more engagement on that regardless

some of the lack is probably just from being a long timer

anyway we are over 1hr, and we got quite a lot done

yeah we're not talking about this proposal when we say 'no translations' (just to clarify)

I think at this particular moment in history having a good source of Monero information in the native russian language could be very helpful to the project.

2 are sub 1d so don't matter

the rest all have clear directives on what to do, with possible exception of v1

Did we make 80%

if we go with 9 instead of 11 to account for the 2 new ones, we are very close :)

(considering closing the two tr ccses)

i give us a 9/10 , well done everyone

@xmrack I'd help fund expedited alternate Russian translation FWIW

We did it, Reddit! 🥳

seedsigner we'll give a day or so, then close, hinto is going to update with hour estimation

poggers

that's 4/5 of the remainder (not counting selsta and foss again)

fyi selsta will be home shortly thats why he wasnt here

I'm late

Sorry, confused the meeting time

sgp: very unrelated but will monero meet continue? or maybe starting breaking monero s2 with Rucknium :D ?

luigi1112 I agree with not having for tr ccses until we come up with a better system

s/for/more/

There are too much opportunistic submissions and lack of volunteers

thanks netrik182

As someone mentioned earlier, I'm personally in favor of translations being submitted organically

As volunteer work.

We successfully managed to close the Spanish one with exceptions which was pending for 1 year

Maybe we get volunteers with awesome swag more than XMR? Bragging rights? Exclusive Tshirts, social media badges, basically you brought XMR to the World *AND WE THANK YOU*

The German one from wobole will be reviewed by a trusted contributor but wobole themselves is not reachable

I tried contacting them without success

That's the last tr ccs still in progress iirc

I can PR a rephrased version of CCS instructions about translations not being allowed for now luigi1112

netrik182 I did already but it's pretty basic. Feel free to propose something better.

Will do

thnx everyone for attending, have a nice weekend

Likewise.

Thanks plowsof for organizing it and sorry again I was late

I enjoyed my first meeting very much. Thanks so much jwinterm and Rucknium for engaging with me

Thanks luigi1112: and plowsof:

Is nft safe?

very safe

Piconero.eu now has tripcodes and secure tripcodes for buying and selling. Tor and VPN posting is also enabled.

s/Piconero/Piconeroj/

@all Do you have any suggestions on how to make it more known among xmr uusers?

I am a strong fan of Agorism, and XMR appears to be very useful for that.

I'm tension free with monero. Is there trustworthy nft blockchain software?

And a wallet

Some in the reddit crowd might be interested me thinks.

Thee is an agorism group iirc

That is cool. I will advertise the site there as well.

<piconerojeu[m]> "Some in the reddit crowd might..." <- Yeah both /monero and /moneromarket

Is status.im trustworthy?

<aremor[m]> "Yeah both /monero and /moneromar..." <- Good idea.

Can someone here with a reddit account please kindly make a post about piconeroj.eu over there?

Thank you!

<luigi1112> "my logic was basically mj..." <- fwiw it's not that I don't care, I'm just handling some personal stuff that's causing some delays on my part that affects mj's work too - but I am still working on the project and intend to finish my part of the work as well

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Thee is an agorism group iirc" <- it sucks

This is what happened after i announced piconeroj.eu

what did you expect?

you or maybe someone else asked on "break the site"

It was me who asked everyone to break the site.

I meant breaking in the techincal way instead of Le 4Chin way

For now, new Ads would require manual vetting.

piconerojeu[m]: That's not gonna scale, at least not if you plan on moderating it alone.

mib[m]: True. Do you have any suggestions on what to do about it?