<Morpheus[m]> "I'm building these charts for..." <- sech1: perhaps

or datahoarder who is in the p2pool channels

hardenedsteel:

Continue herr

Selsta is here too

> how do you imagine decentralized devlopment to work?

selsta: development teams can agree with each other when making hard forks

* > how do you imagine decentralized devlopment to work?

selsta: development teams can agree with each other when making hard forks

Teams such as?

We are all individuals here

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Teams such as?

> We are all individuals here

such as "the monero project"

Is not a team

Monero core is a team

Monero core does not make the decisions. Those who write and review pr's do

And those who write and review could be anybody. Latest release has ~72 contributors

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Is not a team

>

> Monero core is a team

okay then the monero project can't have official website if everybody is individual and not team

Monero project can have an official website just like we have am official repo

who decides it's official?

1. Those who write and review prs

2. Users

3. Ur mom

To quote kaya

"a contributor to the Monero project who has a claim equal to any other contributor in our unweighted system"

"... The Monero Project is on purposely legally undefined"

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> 1. Those who write and review prs

> 2. Users

so in monero.com's case first reason is not acceptable because they wrote too.

you mean write code right?

And it was universally rejected by contributors to monero-project

And reviewers

And again, contributors and reviewers = anyone

ofrnxmr[m]: how universally? what if i decide it's official

Divided monero.com is?

You need consensus. And nobody except for you would allow a proprietary website with 0 oversight to be the official domain

Getmonero.org is official by consensus.

Feel free to create something better and change that

ofrnxmr[m]: i don't need consensus if it works well with network.

Example

We moved from GitHub > GitLab > GitHub + backhub

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Getmonero.org is official by consensus.

> Feel free to create something better and change that

so does official mean what most people think?

Thats what consensus means

An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.

General agreement or accord.

Could we.. just be fragmented? Allow 16 ring nodes to work with 21 ring or 5 ring nodes?

A fixed ring size, not getting rid of ringct, randomx etc

If you dont like it the way monero-project is going, you fork.

How do you think monero was created? Via consensus to fork away from bytecoin

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole.

>

> General agreement or accord.

consensus wont make official, to make it official you need to have something like ceo of monero but it doesn't exist so getmonero.org may official for you but may not for me

Those who didnt want to fork, stayed on bytecoin.

Monerov is another example of not reaching consensus and monero-project remaining the chosen chain

What is officicisl for you? Where do you get your code to build your software? Wownero git?

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Could we.. just be fragmented? Allow 16 ring nodes to work with 21 ring or 5 ring nodes?

>

> A fixed ring size, not getting rid of ringct, randomx etc

it's hardfork and not like making website.

The website is open source. Facepalm

You can fork the website, node, change where it checks checkpoints

Mobilecoin for example

Or oxen

Why did they start their own Genesis blocks? Because they know they will never reach consensus with their bs "improvements"

ofrnxmr[m]: yes i can make fork or make another website for monero but there will be no official website for monero. because monero doesn't have leader, CEO or something like that.

Read a Lil bit

ofrnxmr[m]: ^

Important question above

ofrnxmr[m]: there's currently only one monero implementation exist which is made by the monero project (or monero core?) developers (which is bad for monero)

nothing is official for monero

Its made by so-called "monero-project" which is not a group, but individual contributors

And no, there are many monero implementations

Monerov for example

ofrnxmr[m]: its another coin not implementation

It is monero that forked in a diff direction

Same Genesis blocks

Its called monerov because they couldnt use monero because of.. drumroll... consensus

for an example bitcoin cash has several implementation which works together well and keeps development more decentralized

and they agree each other when making hardforks

Bitcoin cash vs bitcoin is another example

Which is official?

bitcoin cash and bitcoin are different coins and not implementation

ofrnxmr[m]: subjective

The problem is, monero is so well done we all contribute to the same repo

ofrnxmr[m]: it leads to centralized development

hardenedsteel[m]: They were not different coins, lack of historian

ofrnxmr[m]: they forked

Bitcoin.com is for bitcoin cash

Bitcoin cash identifies as the real bitcoin

ofrnxmr[m]: i told you its subjective

They didnt fork the blockchiaj history. Aka same coin

Wownero = new coin = new genesisblocks

ofrnxmr[m]: no bch and btc nodes dont work together

Monerov = same coin, different ideals

hardenedsteel[m]: Not anymore

They did when it was all bitcoin.

i dont talking about making different coin or network

V18 and v17 monero nodes wont work together after Saturday either

There will be a 24hr period where both will work, after which v17 will continue on the old chain and v18 will become the _new_ official

... by consensus

are you trolling? you keep talking about creating another network or coin, which i dont

who is trolling?

Monero is currently on the "old" chain.... node version v0.17.

After Saturday monero-project will hard fork onto a "new chain", or as you would say, a "new coin".

v0.17 is the current coin.

Is v0.17 official?

And will it be post Saturday hard fork?

Im running v0.18 and will accept the new chain as "monero".

_anyone_ else is free to continue to mine and transact on v0.17 and continue the current "official" chain

Thats only ~1/10 of nodes

cryptogrampy:

Monero.fail sees around 13k nodes in a day. Is it possible for menace to track how many of those are updated?

quite trivial

The core team did not fork the project away from Bytecoin. Monero was launched as a new chain with a new genesis block, an entire new coin called Bitmonero. The founder of Bitmonero was a douchebag who wanted dumb things like Bytecoin merge mining so the core team forked the project away from him and began to work on Bitmonero on their own (like renaming it Monero)

yes he did not listen to....consensus

I suppose the original code being copied from Bytecoin makes Monero a Bytecoin fork, but the chain was never forked because Bytecoin had a terrible premine

Apologies for the skipping steps, but yeah, bytecoin > fork new genesis (new coin) > bitmonero > hard fork (same genesis) > new bitmonero

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> cryptogrampy:

>

> Monero.fail sees around 13k nodes in a day. Is it possible for menace to track how many of those are updated?

I'm not sure but kinda doubt he had the bandwidth and/or inclination to do in next few days

He came to the rescue in ~ an hour to add web compatibility detection :P

Maybe he's in a good mood :)

Solid guy nonetheless. Possible Gingeropolous might be able to

monero.fail is a node with a white/grey ip list (which had ips shown there on the dns ban list for 6+ months, theyve since been removed) (ginger has also looped through these lists using bash, as grampy says its quite trivial) the issue is that after the hardfork, v18 nodes are going to ban other peers using v17 if i understand correctly, so they wont appear in their lists anymore right? and 1 node isnt going to provide a full picture

of the network so we'd have to contribute to people not updating (by hosting both v17 and v18 in every continent :D

Morpheus[m]: got data almost from the start for p2pool and for mini too. I can take a look at this after this week, maybe poke me again in those channels?

<DataHoarder> "Morpheus: got data almost from..." <- Awesome. The chart structure on Moneroj is ready. Just waiting the data.

I'll wait the full data to launch them then

I believe you can export most via the api nowadays (each share and block is available, if not full just the relevant information at least)

Otherwise it will be a few GiV

GiB

I just wanted the number of miners, the hashrate, total hashes found and total blocks found each day since inception

So I could plot them

Do you think you have these variables?

Yeah afaik I published some of that already ready to use, but I can give it in bulk

If you could share the link, that would help

👍️👍️

<joshhavepigdog> Nanopool has surpassed MineXMR in hashrate

As I said

Minexmr moving to nanopool and support xmr = bad

Been arguing that this date chosen was in bad faith. At least its moving before the date... still looks like an attack to me.

(Volitility right before hf. Global hash is up as well)

or maybe they simply don't want to update to v0.18 (and add support for view tags), that's why they chose this date

Cake wallet v0.18 looks like its releasing today 🥳

just tried blockchain sync with v0.18.1.0, took 8 hours to fully sync up

selsta:

Yeah, but i argue they could have and should have chosen an earlier date. Previously said 1 week or even 2 days would be better then "at the finish line"

Ive been advocating for everyone to ditch nanopool and support xmr because of the threat of minexmr moving to one or the otherb

⚡ thats.. fast! When is v0.18.1.0 planned to release?

I probably cant join the build party :(

Just saw > Tagging today.

Probably release Thursday or Friday?

release is before the hardfork

fk ledger, look like I can't build app for the X model if I don't have a "Special nano X developer unit". I don't like when they release the app at the last second.

Last time we got a fork on where Ledger released the app **after** the fork, I had a Nano S and so I simply build the new app myself.

I feel I should TX some of my bank account into a software wallet just in case.

s/bank/XMR/, s/account//

read your warning a little to late and now have to patiently wait for ledger to get their sh*t together 😐

I'm in contact with Ledger the plan is still to release in time

anyone wanna clean up the official CLI / GUI reddit release thread? there's been a ton of spam posts on it for idk a week now

I reported a few

<ofrnxmr[m]> "Cake wallet v0.18 looks like its..." <- github.com/m2049r/xmrwallet/releases/tag/v3.0.0

<selsta> "just tried blockchain sync..." <- fucking hell

Nice ^ on rujo

ct🇧🇪: regarding moneromoon ccs

At 441 subs, they ask for 0.136 xmr per subscriber per year

The 0.1xmr you donated doesnt even cover yourself at these rates

And imo, its not a new newsletter and doesnt need seed fundingb

Or, more accurately: they've have 4 years to build a subscriber base and a business model.

If its a hobby, the comment from him about "working for less than minimum wage" is meaninggless

If its a full time job, it definitely should not run off of donations of ccs, but funds from those who read the paper.

So if "ct" is 1/441subscribers, he's asking you for 0.136xmr/year.

As a reader saying you arent willing to pay that. I absolutely do not support funding a project at a 90% loss compared to expected revenue (what readers say they would pay)

This is essentially subsidizing 90% of moons operation

I know it's expensive, I know my minuscule donation cover shit, and I don't say it should be funded. I also stated the rates which I consider fair.

However I do thing it offers unique value the other newsletters do not provide. For those following along, they can read my comments here: repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/336

And I say operation, because its 4 years old and has 400 subscribers that, one of which is only willing to pay 0.01xmr per year

The stickers thing is my hobby and i make it work out to be sustainable (my costs are covered, i don't lose money but i don't give myself a freaking wage)

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> So if "ct" is 1/441subscribers, he's asking you for 0.136xmr/year.

>

> As a reader saying you arent willing to pay that. I absolutely do not support funding a project at a 90% loss compared to expected revenue (what readers say they would pay)

I'm not a subscriber. I read it whenever it pops up on reddit or 4chan. I suspect other people do the same. I don't see it as a service, but rather as an ad campaign for people who are new-ish to monero

Even better.

Meaning, if you more people like you were subscribers he'd have a far larger pool to collect donations from

And your fees would ve less than 0.136 per subscriber.

(Im saying, he should be querying readers for funding.) Youtubers "like subscribe, join my patreon"

Moon "ccs"

If the rates weren't so high, id likely have said nothing.

If it is possible to collect the funding from the 50 donators on ccs, I see absolutely no good reason why 440 subscribers cant cover the bill

Or be asked to

Alternative funding is simple as well.. plowsof made a service for these types of things.

CCS is for all people that need/want funding for a project, that benefits 3rd parties. The Monero Moon benefits most people who are new to monero, and don't get news from other sources (yet). In turn we benefit if they become more familiar with the community. But exactly these new people are least willing to pay for it.

>If the rates weren't so high, id likely have said nothing.

That's indeed the primary pain point

CCS is not for all people that want / need funding

>Alternative funding is simple as well.. plowsof made a service for these types of things.

I thought the CCS was supposed to be open for anyone, and the people can decide with their wallet what gets funded or not? Why do we have to gate-keep proposals like this?

Because at some point our generous whales funding every proposal might stop :/

You can request a ccs to sell bitcoin gear at defcon but ccs is not for your personal endeavors

> <@ctrej:matrix.org> >Alternative funding is simple as well.. plowsof made a service for these types of things.

>

> I thought the CCS was supposed to be open for anyone, and the people can decide with their wallet what gets funded or not? Why do we have to gate-keep proposals like this?

Nope.. ccs has to be approved.

By the community.

I wasn't aware that everything gets funded, and if that is indeed the case the "vote with your wallet" part doesn't work quite right

Vote with your wallet = plowsof WaaS

ct[m]: Was a bit of sarcasm from bull

A lot of bad ccs have been merged/approved. Were not doing that anymore

Nobody has money to pay peoples light bills so they can fuck off

And lie about their hours or work being done, not finish work, or totally misrepresent the job

Thats just how it goes when you have to be sustainable. Other projects act like fancy tech startups where its expected to lose shitloads of money for years, we kinda have to deal with what we have and that usually means development > marketing

ct[m]: does anyone know what happened to the animated videos thing

i know the creator faked a bunch of micro donations to inflate the "supporters"

* i know the creator faked a bunch of micro donations to inflate the number of people who donated

Looks like we need to close it and send those funds elsewhere

how much is it?

400/minute

45xmr

and the amount of coins that were donated?

was that the first proposal that wasnt fully funded?

Its fully funded

107 donators 🥲 scam nonsense

hm, do we know its dead?

ofrnxmr[m]: i believe about 90 are fake

They offered to release one video for money

And didnt. 2 months ago

ah

how are "i guess he put effort into this but the quality is still kinda mid"-translations handled?

No more tl ccs for the timw being

I think there is an exception for v1docq47

Exception meaning we didnt close it

how about review? ive put 2 hours into monero means money german yesterday and while i certainly could do all the other stuff for free, it would have way higher priority in my day-to-day live if i was getting even a small compensation

What do you mean review?

Reviewing translations?

yeah

Its not a hard fast rule that no tl or tl related ccs. Just that they are paused until further notice. More that we arent trying to make a mess while we figure out a better system.

In the meantime, we need to figure out how best to handle them.

Another problem is, we'd need to maintain the translated versions in absence of the original translator

Meaning, if there is an english getmonero.org repo, id expect retreat to be an up to date Polish repo which has active maintainers

i see, whens the next meeting related to the ccs?

We need to schedule one

Last one was last week Saturday

the last moneromoon CCS was funded easily

no idea why all the fuss

it has not been in continuous production for 4 years, it recently came back

I read none of the newsletters

so seems tornado cash also mixed usdc and usdt, i feel like that made them an even bigger target

ct its not just the rates. even if he said he would do it for free, his writing isnt good enough to justify any kind of ccs contract. I spotted one error that i posted in the ccs comments and now another "Being able to piece together these tweet threads is largely be due to the fact..." <- please, someone read his proposal. we're not running make a wish here. if you can't write coherently IN your CCS proposal , and the comments are

accusing you of such there's a problem.

imagine interviewing for his position, he wouldn't get the job

Hey, you wanted some positive comments, so I provided them :)

I didn't mean to cause such a drama

its just his rates -> he will lower his rates and everything will be ok. no

Last time i provided a positive comment against a generally negative sentiment was havenos proposal :/

It's a dumb idealistic idea. 99% of crypto in the first world is hype speculation and hodling on exchanges lol

its not drama discussions are great , and we need to sides for that (else its not fair / 'the sock puppets are attacking me' defence cant be used

two*

there is an account that only posts negative feedback

that feedback is almost exclusively in line with someone's interests

this might spark assumptions

Kill Bill?

yes

* Kill Bill? (FlamingAtlas)

okey, good to know. Didn't recognize the name, but the guy appears unnecessary rude

plowsof:

😅 I hate to say it, but I agree

The comments I left on the proposal basically indicated that: if readers enjoy the paper, at least 441 people will they will donate an average of 0.136xmr per year to read it

If he knows readers wont pay.. why would nonreaders....

Its called a "free" paper, but free for who?

If readers fund the ccs, its far more than 0.136xmr/year

who knows why it would get funded but it has gotten funded

plowsof gives a good critique

if it got merged it would get funded again (i assume)

i do not like being negative toward a monero contributor though , its not like his contributions are worthless

Revuo is worthless though

lets put up a vacancy , almost 30 euros an hour to release a weekly newsletter / handle social media accounts and see the calibre of people who apply

* worthless though /s

Revuo did tell me about the SoloptXMR merge attempt though :D

Same.

Hey spirobel, welcome back to community

Why are you tripping on Reddit after you avoided any discussion

ofrnxmr[m]: it is

Revuo makes more money than moon from readers

how do you know that?

So.. worthless tho whom? People vote with their wallets to keep revuo online. And myself and plowsof both read it and both found out about soloptxmr sly merge request

Am I saying its a good paper... never said that. Im saying revue doesnt get 36xmr from "community funding" to copy and paste every couple weeks

nor should it

I dont see a ccs for revuo, do you?

Why should moon?

agreed

but after the monertopia ccs it looks like its just a free for all there

any idiot can say "ill do xxx for monero adoption/recognition" and get paid

Not just a free for all, but "developers" making death threats while claiming pay for attending meeting and fixing spelling mistakes

Collecting* pay

i just wanted to rule myself out of hosting a meeting because of being biased toward one of the ccs proposers :'(

Its not a biased if its based in fact / not personal

the meeting would be unfair / one sided probably anyway (seeing that he's not active on matrix/irc)

Example.. am I biased against mj-xmr? Nope.

He said those threats in a reply _to me_ and I watched him refuse to take them back, then watched him bill his ccs for straight up bullshit

Im not biased when I say HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no, youre not getting paid early and changing your milestones on your remaining ccs after you pulled that 100% horseshit

Dang I'm glad I'm not luigi1111: lol

Hey, spirobel claims Luigi is some sort of overlord

i m also glad jwinterm[m] is not luigi

I'm glad I'm not luigi

o_0

On Reddit today whining about their afgan ccs, while they avoided all meaningful conversation around it. Saying dumb shit like "you Americans should get regular jobs" as a reason for funding LOL

im glad you're not luigi1111w , he is the mean one, you're the nice one

Yeah.. Luigi1111w is a monster..

Wait for the new series, CCS Gatekeepers, coming soon to a streaming platform near you

Luigi is a power hungry sadist who likes to crush independent developers dreams and aspirations, rucknium is singlehandedly implementing a backdoor into monero, rotten has 3000 sockpuppets controlling the narrative, haveno dev went 150x long with ccs fund, monerobull posts quarterly reports of everyone's real life address, Vik from cakewallet literally laughst at your pathetic bags every night, justin is a fed trying to secretly

destroy the community and fluffy handed over the monero-master-viewkey to the fbi

Did i forget anyone?

And cyptogrampy still needs his diaper changed

Monerobull 😂, mixing some fud with some facts. Haha

<monerobull[m]> "Did i forget anyone?" <- jw is a shitcoiner launching shitcoin forks to cheapen monero image

Are you the guy who's "balls deep into nfts"?

Yes

Also that

Lol

I actually like the dog nft. Not "like it enough to pay 100$ gas fees to get it" but i think they're neat

Gas breddy cheap lately, more like a couple bucks

Yeah gas cheap get those jpgs now

Was kinda funny vitalik did a tweet thread about some new type of contract that is basically like stealth addresses for NFTs so you can't see recipient

Then two days later feds erase tornado

Tornado should show Bitcoin that it is possible to sanction Bitcoin 😅 / steal funds

Overnight

Not from private keys but simply accepting tornado eth is a crime

And, I didnt check, but sounds like usdc, usdt as well

ofrnxmr[m]: Idk but i think having a CENSORED ONCHAIN BLOCK should have been a wake-up call

That happened?

Yeah

When

Wow I'm so old

Marathon, a North America-based mining company, has mined the first OFAC compliant bitcoin block yesterday, that only included KYC validated transactions and excluded transactions from addresses coming from sanctioned subjects. The block was found five days after Marathon completed the transition from its other pools to its completely compliant mining pool on May 1st. Since that day, the whole 10.37 EH/S are assigned to only

mine KYC/OFAC compliant transactions.

There are some pretty big public USA mining companies, presumably they're all compliant

I guess you can use a stealth addresses and they would still mine your tx to send to a sanctioned entity

But sending from sanctioned entity...

Just sell it as a service

"I'll send 0.01 sanctioned BTC to any address, for only 10$ XMR"

I guess they can still use samurai 🤷‍♀️

soo who will get sanctioned next?

More mixers

And every single time without fail, fud posts will pop up on r/monero

wen monero sanctions?

<jwinterm[m]> "I guess they can still use..." <- this is whitelisting, not blacklisting

only utxos from approved sources will be mined

oic

samourai is good for "you cant spend from xxx", not good for "you can only spend from yyy"

s/utxos/txs/

jwinterm: do you still mod r/cc?

I am still the boss ya

wait you own it?

no reddit owns it

I just work there for free

well, for free for a number of years, and for the last couple years I am awarded reddit community moon points

<jwinterm> "well, for free for a number of..." <- yeah stfu youre a millionaire now

the only person in monero to make it and it was due to reddit updoot coins

you can look next to my username and see that I am not in fact even a completely illiquid millionaire

moonionaire

i have 20 dollars worth of moons spread across 2 accounts and should i ever try to liquidate them im doxxing myself

i have 4.5 cents worth of nova eth so theres still some hope to liquidate

testnet was so much more comfy

afaik each tx on nova is like $0.002

so you should be good

I haven't played with it all yet tho

and now kids, my wallet is doxxed. imagine this happening to your savings account

jwinterm: want to buy my moons for 10$?

xmr

neigh

how is it doxxed tho? just because reddit knows your ip?

is your reddit account really connected to your irl identity?

no but if this wasnt my shitcoin reddit account you could just put the eth amount into an explorer

whats the chances another wallet has that exact amount of eth like 30 hour after reddit introduced this

also, kek @ reddit removing the nft market

ive heard a few people got refunded

just makes my profile even more "special"

they're totally killing it?

killing all nft avatars? or just the marketplace?

well the marketplace is gone, cant buy any new ones. not sure if its a technical problem or axxed

huh

I just asked to have one of them come do reddit talk about nfts lol

and some people on r/cc posted about how they got their purchases as far as 2 weeks refunded

* as far back as 2

on one hand i wish they refunded mine but on the other, this is kinda funny to have on your account

ive got more in moons than i have spent on it anyways

There was a bunch of subreddits that were just banning people who had one

yeah i heard about that lmao

I guess they just weren't prepared for backlash maybe, and are regrouping or reneging

the whole thing was hilarious

they never called them nfts

Right, which eventually will be the case for everything, but that was obviously a pivot because of backlash