-
alpharabius[m]
-
alpharabius[m]
Blow this post up yo
-
selsta
git is distributed by design, making centralized copies on a server doesn't make much sense
-
alpharabius[m]
Read my response to first comment
-
endogenic
why dont you guys just use monero-lws..?
-
endogenic
mrnaif
-
endogenic
out of curiosity
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I dont think its ready? Is it?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Personally, I want lws to be in core once ready
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Subaddress supoort and all that. cryptogrampy: are you still playing with it?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<alpharabius[m]> "Read my response to first..." <- Post it here, I dont see your response
-
endogenic
gotcha. i can add subaddr support. i already designed the api
-
endogenic
and have a client for it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Would be much appreciated.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Then hopefully it makes sense for wallets to implement it
-
alpharabius[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "Post it here, I dont see your..." <- That is not the only goal, our other goal is to build a Library with only bare censorship. And if the domain and/or server were to be seized this would be a place they'd know to go to
-
alpharabius[m]
+ it's going to mainly be based on git
-
plowsof
i used to be pro sub-address, but payment id's have won me over for merchants accepting payments , does monero-lws handle payment ids?
-
endogenic
yes encrypred pids are largely dope. yes monero lws supports pids
-
plowsof
<3
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<plowsof> "i used to be pro sub-address..." <- For merchants, but lws needs subaddresses for usersssss
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Phew
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Its been like 24 hrs, maybe 25
-
chesterfield[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "I dont think its ready? Is it?" <- I think for the bitcart use case it would actually work well as they’re just using payment id
-
endogenic
by the way i shoild mention plowsof the api i designed is totally different from the one we started building 3 yrs ago. this new one is significantly more powerful, simpler, and verified to be actually useful
-
endogenic
the other one wasnt sufficient
-
chesterfield[m]
endogenic: Link?
-
mrnaif
<endogenic> "why dont you guys just use..." <- Same with wallet-rpc: it works with 1 address only, required additional setup, takes a long time to sync
-
mrnaif
You can start using BitcartCC to accept payments instantly, that's good for new merchants
-
halontka89[m]
> <@mrnaif:matrix.org> Same with wallet-rpc: it works with 1 address only, required additional setup, takes a long time to sync
-
halontka89[m]
> You can start using BitcartCC to accept payments instantly, that's good for new merchants
-
halontka89[m]
it doesn't support subaddresses?
-
mrnaif
No, it uses integrated addresses
-
Martin77[m]
anyone want to join my briar group , only 6 member though
-
chesterfield[m]
> <@mrnaif:matrix.org> Same with wallet-rpc: it works with 1 address only, required additional setup, takes a long time to sync
-
chesterfield[m]
> You can start using BitcartCC to accept payments instantly, that's good for new merchants
-
chesterfield[m]
It supports many wallets as well as integrated addresses:
github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws
-
mrnaif
Hmm, maybe I didn't check it a lot. I will check it again later, my laptop ran out of RAM when compiling it (:
-
rbrunner
mrnaif: You have something that works, and as you reported seems to work well? Well, splendid
-
rbrunner
Those lighwallet servers hang a bit up in the air for years already because it seems the Monero dev community cannot make up their mind
-
rbrunner
whether they are core components of the Monero software or not.
-
rbrunner
And development and improvements are pretty slow at times.
-
endogenic
it's not true that they cant make up their mind rbrunner
-
endogenic
it's that no one has brought the question up in years
-
endogenic
rbrunner is working on his own competing project afaik
-
endogenic
what needs to be done is actually to factor monero core code
-
endogenic
it has little to do with monero lws being stalled haha
-
endogenic
funny how it's the exact opposite of what you said
-
endogenic
monerolws is perhaps the only thing which isnt stalled
-
chesterfield[m]
-
chesterfield[m]
Image you can test out for lws
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<endogenic> "funny how it's the exact..." <- ^^
-
halontka89[m]
<endogenic> "monerolws is perhaps the only..." <- care to elaborate?
-
endogenic
like i said, it's an example of where monero development didnt stall. if monero core were factored by me or someone who knows the techniques i know then monero lws would already reside in monero-project alongside simplewallet
-
endogenic
it is an example of us doing something despite a "stalled" part of the project
-
endogenic
and by stalled what was meant was that people dont think factoring is important enough (rare to nonexistent cases of this) OR they want to become famous or straight up distract effort from the rest of the project by building redundant or unnecessary and even dangerous APIs on top of wallet2
-
endogenic
what a sad state of affairs for monero frankly
-
endogenic
we already had the ways to use monero without building atop wallet2 , largely
-
endogenic
but instead of working on factoring of core certain people have popularized certain means of integration which have gone the opposite direction
-
endogenic
halontka89[m]:
-
endogenic
-
endogenic
i would do it myself but i have a lot more to do now..
-
endogenic
maybe i'll hire someone eventually. we can certainly do a CCS for that now. multiple people have told me they would fund it
-
endogenic
but i've got no direct assistance right now
-
endogenic
frankly the work is already done in large part anyway
-
endogenic
it merely needs to be PR'd but i am honestly scared of the risk of justifying certain PRs to devs here with some of the hostile and bad actors who still run amok here
-
endogenic
well. not scared of spending my time justifying it to the devs who understand. like i said almost everyone admits it's key
-
endogenic
but so many people have their own motives. such as the example above
-
mrnaif
endogenic: Yeah, during implementation I saw that everyone was like "just use wallet2", which is an extremely big piece of code which needs to be used in a way. It was very hard to avoid using it. I think it shouldn't be a single source of truth indeed
-
endogenic
but yeah almost evrryone agrees it's key and i have buyin / agreement from the most talented devs here
-
endogenic
yeah wallet2 is a trainwreck
-
endogenic
have a look at my talk
-
endogenic
it's why i made mymonero-core-cpp
-
endogenic
there's such a history that has been actively buried by certain community members
-
endogenic
idk if they're trying to stall monero
-
endogenic
or what
-
endogenic
it's been happening for years and it goes DEEP
-
endogenic
the real thing monero cant make up its mind about is whether to kick those people out
-
endogenic
there's always an attack vector on this community
-
endogenic
it's so easy to make people doubt such decisions
-
endogenic
and to muddy the waters
-
endogenic
but when people know the history and they know the reality of the situation they cant be fooled as easily
-
endogenic
when monero kicks out its bad actors, its obstacles to changing and developing will be removed
-
endogenic
no wonder those bad actors always have to blame everyone but themselves
-
endogenic
that's how they maintain the confusion of the community
-
endogenic
and their fear
-
ofrnxmr[m]
endogenic: You had me until this line
-
ofrnxmr[m]
endogenic: ^
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Be clear
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Who?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Cant kick what I cant see
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<endogenic> "that's how they maintain the..." <- Dont get me wrong. I do agree that there are people fucking around.. but im very clear and direct when I address them... I dont leave things up to speculation or conspiracies when there's a problem.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nothing can be perfect fixing a problem starts with identifying it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "Who?" <- Tldr
-
endogenic
if you (communally) cant recognize them now then that is not a solution yet
-
endogenic
more important is communally having the ability, standard, and consensus to identify what is not helpful to monero (and ourselves) and what is helpful
-
endogenic
people dont think highly enough of this problem
-
endogenic
i have said many times this is what endangers monero
-
endogenic
look at bitcoin
-
endogenic
nevermind actually. mistaken comparison
-
endogenic
point remains that until people make up their mind to orient the community in a productive direction instead of all fighting against each other then nothing will change except slowly for the worse
-
alpharabius[m]
I feel like bitejo can become successful if done correctly
-
ceetee[m]
I too thought about this before, if Monero goes down, it will be because of fights within and a split of the community
-
alpharabius[m]
ceetee[m]: Which doesn't seem impossible imo
-
ceetee[m]
What do you think is a the best approch to face this issue endogenic: ?
-
alpharabius[m]
I just hope monero doesn't go down bcuz i have my life savings in it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
ceetee[m]: I think the best approach is to stop waiting for someone else to point out the issues
-
Lyza
I think a big issue potentially is assigning bad faith to people we merely have disagreements with. creates an atmosphere of distrust
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Waiting for a group of people to come to the same conclusion is not efficient at all. The points need to be brought forward and addressed
-
ceetee[m]
The first step is to listen, it always is
-
ofrnxmr[m]
What Lyza: said. If it isnt public knowledge, its your opinion
-
Lyza
if you have criticism to make, you can make it without impugning someone's motives, unless you really have evidence they are bad actors and would like to lay it out, best not to make passing accusations I'd think
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And youre afraid to speak on it
-
ceetee[m]
I know your stance, but not endogenics
-
Lyza
anyway last I checked the plan wass to ditch wallet2 for wallet3 when/if seraphis drops so does it even make sense to spend a bunch of time refactoring wallet2 rn, genuine question because idk
-
endogenic
good question
-
Lyza
if someone wants to do the work I don't see the issue but... /shrug
-
endogenic
it's not clear when seraphis will be ready or how good that code will be. chances are it will be good enough and well factored
-
endogenic
the factoring is not the biggest issue here though
-
endogenic
the factoring is largely already done
-
endogenic
i released it under a different repo years ago
-
endogenic
the bigger issue is the ambiguity of everything nowadays here due to problems being covered up
-
endogenic
it is a fatal condition for a project
-
endogenic
we have been co opted
-
Lyza
that is a very strong statement
-
Lyza
which you should provide evidence for
-
Lyza
everything is covered up? lay it out then
-
endogenic
my job in part is to wake people up to this and try to bring back the old culture of development. the strongest contributors are all fragmented / separated now
-
endogenic
or they got pushed out
-
endogenic
i will say more when i am at less risk and exposure
-
Lyza
bro what, is someone threatening your family what do you mean risk
-
endogenic
i have my entire job on my shoulders with the exception of a small amount of help
-
endogenic
Lyza there is a lot of history you dont know and which has been hidden
-
endogenic
and this can keep happening as long as people churn thru monero
-
endogenic
that's how it can keep happenung
-
endogenic
people are being ground under wheels
-
Lyza
yeah but you won't share you just keep making vague accusations
-
Lyza
that is bad
-
endogenic
untrue
-
endogenic
i have been specific many times
-
endogenic
the bigger question is whether people are ready to deal with it
-
endogenic
bbl
-
Lyza
"<endogenic> i will say more when i am at less risk and exposure" <--- what is this then
-
Lyza
yeah okay bye
-
endogenic
i will be more prepared to provide solutions soon(tm)
-
endogenic
i have good reasons
-
endogenic
thanks
-
Lyza
welp I'll read whatever you gotta say when you're ready
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<endogenic> "we have been co opted" <- By?
-
Lyza
(it's me, I am in charge now)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Send in DM if you want
-
chesterfield[m]
<endogenic> "i will be more prepared to..." <- Isn’t developing a solution in secret and spreading unfounded rumors about Monero and developers the problem?
-
ceetee[m]
people should be able to work on solutions in peace. There's always a chance of bad actors in open source projects, stating the fact is not a rumor
-
chesterfield[m]
Someone ping me when the military grade Reddit drama post drops
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Endogenic didnt just say there is a possibly
-
ofrnxmr[m]
He said we have been co-opted
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Id like to know where to aim, plz and thx
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Otherwise dont pretend like youre in this fight to win.
-
ceetee[m]
devs are limited, I'd rather be confident about things than acting swiftly and kicking out anyone by accident
-
spacekitty420[m]
to a wider definition, cryptoworld as a whole currently is being co-opted for a long while now
-
spacekitty420[m]
most likely not what was being hinted at here tho
-
spacekitty420[m]
we all :tinfoil: up in here and always pointing fingers at who the ones doing an inside job for the glowies, and the ones to those fingers are pointed at are also pointing fingers as well o.o
-
spacekitty420[m]
there's been theories of fluffy being compromised back then (necessary been done just in case at the time iirc, or maybe was just temporary, still...)
-
spacekitty420[m]
maybe is cake that being like tryna do the whole malicious takeover o.o :tinfoil:
-
spacekitty420[m]
like, is sgp sus? idk, he cute tho, well, he got cute eyes, whatever.... prob not doing the co-opting tho, idk....
-
sgp[m]
If you all spent 1/10th of the time you spend conjuring conspiracy theories, on improving Monero with side projects, Monero would be worth $10,000 😂
-
hashy[m]
kek
-
sgp[m]
<plowsof> "i used to be pro sub-address..." <- Really? Why so?
-
sgp[m]
You need a view key to detect incoming payments anyway
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<sgp[m]> "If you all spent 1/10th of the..." <- How-to build cake pls
-
endogenic
see?
-
endogenic
example
-
endogenic
wakey wakey
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Which example
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Yawn
-
spacekitty420[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: how-to-build-android.md apparently
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Booe
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nope
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Doesn't work
-
spacekitty420[m]
s/how/howto/, s/to-//
-
sgp[m]
We're setting up automatic builds
-
sgp[m]
Check the PRs; there's one with a build script
-
sgp[m]
But these will be automated since building is boring
-
sgp[m]
endogenic: Wow so specific and actionable 🙄
-
endogenic
see?
-
endogenic
ban sgp
-
endogenic
he clearly has his own interests and is attempting to discredit someone with narrative control technqiues in the absence of facts
-
Siren[m]
What
-
endogenic
people can be deceived only when they are ignorant of the facts
-
sgp[m]
What facts
-
Siren[m]
What are the facts
-
endogenic
few of you have any idea what people like them scheme about or have done or otherwise disrupted
-
endogenic
sgp largely cares about fame
-
endogenic
not the code base quality lol
-
sgp[m]
I hear even fewer have heard any facts from you
-
endogenic
if you arent ready to know then you wont pursue confirming it
-
endogenic
sgp stop projecting
-
endogenic
you're the one doing that
-
endogenic
it's 1000x easier to make someone doubt then to make them confirm
-
endogenic
so stop talking to me
-
Siren[m]
endogenic: Just say it
-
endogenic
i just gave you an example
-
endogenic
you treat your best contributors like garbage
-
sgp[m]
Stop wasting everyone's time with circular conversations please. If you want a separate endogenic rambling channel, make one and people who want to listen can listen to you in a corner. Don't take this channel down for no reason
-
endogenic
no wonder the noethers got so easily cast out
-
endogenic
sgp you sound a little worried
-
endogenic
and a little biased
-
sgp[m]
endogenic: I went to Sarang's wedding last year..... I don't think he hates me
-
endogenic
judge for yourself, monero
-
endogenic
hate is different from indifference noob
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
endogenic
i sais stop talking to me
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Endo, a convo works in 2 directions
-
sgp[m]
Serious question: is anyone against a endogenic ban, at least temporary? They show up and derail the conversation with circular, non-actionable, conspiracy nonsense
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And this is a public room
-
endogenic
there it is y'all
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Yes im against banning both of you
-
endogenic
wake. up.
-
Stnby[m]
I am so lost 😆, endogenic Are you claiming that sgp is sabotaging Monero?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Endo has posted once in weeks, today
-
spacekitty420[m]
sgp: sowry summoning u lol, just had intuition that it was something along those lines, yall enjoy your weekend <3
-
sgp[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Yeah but every time he shows up it's this same old same old
-
plowsof
(i see this is now off topic) but heres my opinion so far on integrated / sub address - if you are a merchant who values your customers privacy (it would be bad if anyone found out they sent funds to an address of your business because reasons) then you must use sub addresses and keep your viewkey private. otherwise just re-use the same address and implement it without hurting your brain
-
Siren[m]
Why would subaddresses hurt someone's brain?
-
Stnby[m]
I am against integrated addresses, and managing 100s of different separate wallets for each payment as well. But subaddresses <3
-
sgp[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Yeah, you need these to build the connections to the relevant third parties. Otherwise things like Cake Pay won't work
-
plowsof
ive implemented sub addresses , and i see that payment id's are 'easier' is all
-
ofrnxmr[m]
That was the line I was missing.. I think
-
spacekitty420[m]
speaking of cake, heard there's an announcement related to cakepay next week or so, is there a specific day to look out for is nothing set in stone just yet?
-
spacekitty420[m]
s/is/or/
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Plowsof says Friday is the best day
-
Stnby[m]
plowsof: Depends on your use case, don't you think?
-
sgp[m]
spacekitty420[m]: Not Monday :p Probably not Tuesday either
-
spacekitty420[m]
alrighty, thanks :3
-
plowsof
yes its all use-case based , hobbyist vs something more serious
-
Siren[m]
I hope it's gonna be the Cake Pay EU announcement :D
-
plowsof
hobbyist - use a remote node with payment id's to sell your competitively priced stickers with exceptional customer support, just like they do over at [insert advertisement here]
-
Stnby[m]
The difference is also how you track partial payments, maybe you want to have some customer balance associated with a subaddress, maybe something else.
-
Siren[m]
How do you have partial payment support with payment ids?
-
Siren[m]
Sounds hard
-
plowsof
well thats easy for me because im waiting for Metronero ccs
-
mrnaif
Simply track two fields: amount, and amount_sent
-
Stnby[m]
subaddresses do everything what integrated addresses do, but not the other way around.
-
mrnaif
and well, amount_confirmed for my case
-
Stnby[m]
In my opinion integrated addresses were supposed to be deprecated :D
-
mrnaif
I think I remember reading on github issue about payment ids vs subaddresses that subaddresses don't allow to derive base address without private spend key or something like that, I might be wrong
-
mrnaif
and without new seraphis scheme it can't be fixed
-
sgp[m]
I can't wait for this new scheme to remove these issues
-
Siren[m]
mrnaif: Wait - you can reuse payment ids? What about your second transfer that completes it?
-
plowsof
problems ive noticed with subaddresses from a tech support angle : gate .io users have often setn funds to the 'base address' of the payment id , due to an old bug in the gui wallet. the merchants support team ;dont see the payment; and you enter 'ticket closed' hell for several months
-
plowsof
s/subaddresses/integrated**
-
mrnaif
Siren[m]: Wait, why not? Maybe I missed something 🤔
-
plowsof
so there are other issues with payment id's for users
-
Stnby[m]
Also, single transaction cannot pay to multiple integrated addresses.
-
spacekitty420[m]
thought that payment ids been removed few years ago tho?
-
Stnby[m]
So yeah integrated addresses should be deprecated, removed from wallets etc. Imo
-
Stnby[m]
Subaddresses are the preffered way
-
sgp[m]
spacekitty420[m]: "removed"
-
mrnaif
spacekitty420[m]: They are encrypted
-
plowsof
every monero address has a random payment id in it. pls confirm
-
Stnby[m]
spacekitty420[m]: There were talks, but some integrated address fan boys popped up
-
spacekitty420[m]
aw :/
-
plowsof
every monero address is an integrated address pls confirm xx
-
Siren[m]
mrnaif: Isn't linkability between transactions an issue?
-
mrnaif
Siren[m]: They are 2 transactions sent by same user. Same issue if you send 2 partial payments to one address generated in bitcoin, or to subaddress. Nothing changes here
-
Stnby[m]
Read about the benefits of subaddresses here:
monerodocs.org/public-address/subaddress
-
Stnby[m]
I do not want to copy paste everything.
-
nioc
just want to say that I feel so much better now that Lyza is in charge
-
nioc
see no reason to ban anybody now, people here are quite capable with using logic
-
rbrunner
"In my opinion integrated addresses were supposed to be deprecated :D" I don't think that will really still happen on the way to Seraphis and Jamtis
-
rbrunner
And then it's just addresses.
-
Siren[m]
It's obscure tbh, subaddresses are at least private by default
-
rbrunner
"thought that payment ids been removed few years ago tho?" The long ones, right, not the short encrypted ones
-
plowsof
have a look for yourself by entering an address into rbrunners site here
monerotech.info/Home/Address
-
Stnby[m]
Is there a single mention of integrated addresses on getmonero site?
-
Stnby[m]
As I remember not seeing anything like that.
-
Siren[m]
Stnby[m]: Yes
-
Siren[m]
It's under addresses page
-
Stnby[m]
-
chesterfield[m]
<mrnaif> "I think I remember reading on..." <- Subaddresses are shit for merchants currently
-
chesterfield[m]
Hope their remaining issues get resolved soon
-
alpharabius[m]
plowsof: thanks for telling me your opinion😀😀😀
-
ofrnxmr[m]
What was plowsof's opinion
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I hope he didnt say I looked fat in that dress...
-
plowsof
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Damn, I should have sent link before reading
-
plowsof
Close the proposal please
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But yeah.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
There are multiple hurdles (impossibilities at this point) with going from a proposal > reality.
-
selsta
who did the original archive proposal?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The idea itself, is one that has been spoken about a billion times and has been covered in depth on GitHub and here on matrix
-
ofrnxmr[m]
monero_archiver:
-
ofrnxmr[m]
> <@plowsof:matrix.org> Close the proposal please
-
ofrnxmr[m]
>
-
ofrnxmr[m]
alpharabius:
-