<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So, to recap. To apply for CCS funding, you'd have to show minimum 1 mainnet node and an up-to-date self-hosted mirror of Monero GitHub.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That's about it, right?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> If I run a node can I get a vacation to MoneroKon?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not necessary. Just join -policy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.to/#/!aFGXKcPvUExSWMkVYu:mat…cial&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat

So now i understand why ofrnxmr has been role playing the concern police over at -policy.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> help others understand plz.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I figure its pretty simple:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> -policy is run using consumer grade tools

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> -monerokon tickets convinced them to write fluff pieces to make themselves look busy. (too bust to upgrade to Google workspace)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Q: how to get free tix 2 monerokon

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> A: join -policy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "concern police"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you guys cost far more than you put out. Thousands on tix, 0$ on tools to get the job done

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> monerokon tickets arent that expensive D:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> sorru

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I mean travel

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and the policy panel was very well received

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we already have new rules to insure reimbursements arent unreasonable

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I'm not commenting on the output of monerokon

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im talking about the "wheels r only spinning si we cn go on vaca"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im talking about the "wheels r only spinning so we can go on vaca"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> How much was spent to fly policy out?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> im out of the loop on the policy drama

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They put in a proposl while the group was dead

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.to/#/!aFGXKcPvUExSWMkVYu:mat…cial&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Before thus msg: dead

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> after: trying to get that travel $

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (better than dead. Id still prefer if they took some of that vacation $ and upgraded to a service that you actually have control over)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not sure but artic was there anyways, sgp was representing cake, midi ran our banking

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Drive personal version is a joke for production emvironments.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> so thats like, at least half the panel already

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Artic is excluded.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> sgp is a larpin liar

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and midi meh

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> cake literally was sponsoring kon with the highest tier

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I wonder why

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cake and rino only

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> they for sure spent 9k to get 2k

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Majestic barely made it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> oh yeah rino also sponsored with top tier

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and cake funds everything.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sgp has nothing to do with viks spending

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And vik has bothing to do with policy plane tickets

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or msvbs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> as i said, the reimbursements are overhauled for next year

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I know

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its kind of cuz of me, remembwr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Template billing

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the real crime was the person maxing out the 2k reimbursements by spending 4 nights in a 5 star hotel

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Rejecting speakers hotel bills

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lmao

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you didnt know?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> How is that a crime?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i know

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> well

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the thing stated reasonable expenses

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And its absolute hypocrisy to pay msvb's TEMPLATES but not a speaker with reveipts

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> are there speakers who havent been paid?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Reasonable is "round numbers, always" ?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No, but the 5* speaker was in talks to be rejecred, in the same breath as ignorijg the 15k maybe made away with

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> with 0 receipts

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> well, you can rest easy that the plan for next time is clearly defined rules and a "finance council"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i know

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> U forget? I was there..

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> dadajo:

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The changes are bcuz of me... lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ok so whats the problem now

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> that -policy uses google drive personal edition

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> magic monero fund used the crypt drive thing and then seths server went down and we didnt have access to any of our files for some time :P

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fkn traitor seth

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Could at least uae google workspace..

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Personal tier doesnt allow you to use your own keys, allows google to edit and delete you works, etc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (/s)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if Konferenco s.r.o works out we can use it to set up a proper solution

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> kon needs something anyways so invoices dont disappear anymore lol

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i know someone who can do it for 0.1 xmr a month

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ha

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> or put the invoices on gitlab so we can clone every other day

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> were getting a 6€ vps and some proper foss accounting software

ofrn did I meet you?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ofrn wasnt at kon

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> at least not that we know of

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 2 new/recent proposals on the ccs ideas page btw ccs.getmonero.org/ideas

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> tbh im skeptical of the atomic swaps gui

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> do we have any updates posted somewhere about how the recent meetup in Turkey went?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Siren: you were in turkey right?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we need atomic swaps and we need a good gui but why does it build on comit? i thought farcaster was better

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i left some feedback earlier

yes farcaster please

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Looks like extension of last ccs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> also yes please to vosto

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Last one was retarded

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Yes

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> plow, how much do we have left from scray meat eye ccs

<s​iren:kernal.eu> The event went great I think we should repeat

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Next time we'll probably record the talks

I hear that cats are treated very well in Turkey

<s​iren:kernal.eu> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…/kernal.eu/acXFxZkcLqvNpsZHWDVMucFv

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 36xmr iirc?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Yes nioc my airbnb had 3

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 36 XMR yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Minus vost pay

siren <3

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the community funded his prev proposal so those funds are untouched

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah all of that should be insta deposited into vostos ccs

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Turkish xmr community is solid. Hopefully we'll get more sponsors for the event this way.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Regarding binarybarons new ccs. No.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 26xmr/mth for maintenance, when its still broken and has been for months?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> "438 XMR into this GUI" "1000 swaps"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> lmao

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> How about 10xmr/yr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> UnstoppableSwap same issue on repeat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 100xmr year year is still less than the ask

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I remember this ccs being very bad, and not knowing how it got merged

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/GukMWFkCxgvueQdOZldDrnLU

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> shitcoins on bisq have more volume

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ```

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Some things i would like to note about the previous proposal. Speaking in the third person and making pull requests to your own repository using alts as shown here lead to me believing that multiple developers would be funded by the CCS (Combined with you stating "Our rates are"). I notice in this proposal you are now using "My rates are" so i commend you for the increased clarity.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ```

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Slides for ATM and Metronero. Not much because we did lotsa talking.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> hedgedoc.digilol.net/p/s4BF_FNnp#

<s​iren:kernal.eu> hedgedoc.digilol.net/p/WYUghN5WB

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Tldr; Metronero won't have custodial mode anymore. There will be a shared production instance that only works with view keys and merchants will pay monthly invoices (1% of all payments they received) for the service.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> The self host edition will be single merchant only

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> cute plushy

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i like the "liquidity pool" concept

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> im interested in why you chose the example like this

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> escapethe3ra: rottenwheel reporting live from the scene, this Turkey meetup update from Metronero is developing as we speak. Back to you in the studio!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/xwdWegbUCNNuwjqPjetIARak

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> why should the cash-purchase be cheaper if you need more cash

<s​iren:kernal.eu> So the user takes the deal

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i know "incentivizing cash deposits" but it still feels kind counter-intuitive

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I don't think people would care about the machine, they just love good rates

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> id assume it to actually be the opposite, usually you dont use crypto atms because they have such amazing rates

<s​iren:kernal.eu> It's not in the slides but another behavior we want to have is offering better rate for higher denominations. Like you'd get more XMR if you input 50 bills instead of 5s

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah that makes sense

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I guess best way to figure this out would be to deploy a machine irl and see how people interact with it

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Try out both strategies

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> too bad its so freaking illegal in germany

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> in the past i had already looked into these really expensive prebuilt atms

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but you need a banking license here

" offering better rate for higher denominations." -> i seen a picture today of a kebab seller, offering 6 kebab for 6 euro or 2 for 16 or something lol

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Wouldn't it count as p2p if you made no profits and used it within your friend circle?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> in that case yes

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Hmm :D

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> :D

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> anyways, just thought about how atm hooked up to serai would be cool 😳

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> actually

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> wouldnt work

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> serai takes 20 min to send funds

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> serai takes 20 min to send (xmr) funds

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i guess you could use it to replenish the atm after a trade

the ATM will send out a distress beacon when funds are low - every cash-by-drone seller in the area will be alerted

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> person buys 1 XMR, ATM gives it from local wallet, buys 1 XMR from serai with DAI

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> minimizes volatility risk for the atm operator

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and wallet wont run out as long as the serai trade wallet has enough dai

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> can be done in reverse too, person sells 1 XMR to ATM but this time the sell transaction could already be the one swapping to DAI

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> im such a serai simp

wen

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not soon enough

<a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> someone knows how to use monero with tails without persistent volume?

use tails, download a monero wallet, create wallet, write the seed phrase on paper. repeat the steps next time but instead of creating a wallet, you restore your old one and wait for it to sync , however, paper is the "persistent volume" so this doesn't answer your question

perhaps you mean by using remote nodes? im sure you will find useful info here even though im off the mark xmrguide.org

<4​rkal:matrix.org> Why wouldn't you want to use persistent storage?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Single use wallet, for extra something something, you know.

<a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> can a exit node send viruses to tails? i'm afraid to get a virus on it

<a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> monero over tails without persistent storage

<4​rkal:matrix.org> Unless your retarded I think the technology is pretty well developed. All users that have been caught have been caught because of their own stupidity, never has a tor user been caught from a vulnerability in the Tor network or any other technology. Just practice good opsec and don't do anything stupid

<4​rkal:matrix.org> A exit node will not give you a virus

<a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> oh and how many words for the persistent storage password?

<a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> thank you

<4​rkal:matrix.org> Are you currently being tracked down by le? Are you scared that they will crack the password? If yes use 40+ chars. If not just use like 15+ and your gonna be ok. Try to use random letters not words and also use weird characters like & " etc

<a​nxietyinducing:matrix.org> I think about it but I feel there needs to be a solution for anxious people like me who are afraid of persistent storage to some degree

<4​rkal:matrix.org> Hypothetically

<4​rkal:matrix.org> Lmao

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> No, I didn't mean the ticket. I meant the flight 😄. It's probably around $800. I was joking though

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Memorize the seed phrase. Use flashcards and do parts of words.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Use full-disk encryption and you will be safe

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Use a six-word diceware password and that is sufficient and has good entropy.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You can also use two separate devices, one cold (air-gapped) and one hot (can connect to internet). Export key images from the cold device and relay them over the network with the hot device

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Use a six-word diceware password and that is sufficient and has good entropy.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> You can also use two separate devices, one cold (air-gapped) and one hot (can connect to internet). Export key images from the cold device and relay them over the network with the hot device. Keep wallet data on cold device.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> (or) Use full-disk encryption and you will be safe. Tails does not provide FDE. You'll have use to use grub dm-crypt. Try libreboot

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Of course your threat model is the most important thing to begin with. Who are your adversaries, what are your assets, your threats, etc.

<i​nstrumental_only:matrix.org> Whats an example of full-disk encryption?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> wiki.parabola.nu/Installing_Parabol…l_disk_encryption_(including_/boot)

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> At that point, the only thing that an adversary can tamper with are the internals.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> That means boot ROM, integrated NIC, etc.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Best to do this on a usb and with an iommu, otherwise backdoored HDD/SSD firmware will be able to read your RAM through a DMA channel and get your encryption keys

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Hey guys, just a question I started thinking on. How does an airgapped wallet send a transaction?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Sign a transaction, export key images, then send it to a device (through usb or qr codes, anything), then the device sends the transaction to the network

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> oh, so what I thought. Ty needed that confirmation

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> monerodocs.org/cold-storage/offline-transaction-signing

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> you can try it out using ANONERO

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> check out the video demo: odysee.com/ANONERO:3

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> yea, saw that. thanks tho

<r​ucknium:monero.social> A difference with bitcoin and other transparent coins is that you have to construct the unsigned Monero transaction on a non-airgapped device that is connected to a node. The node is connected to other nodes & the internet.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You need to do this because you need to create the ring signature(s), which are based on transaction outputs that you don't own. They are gathered by the node for your wallet.

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Yea got that. Ty again

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> bitcoin also needs to have an online counter-part, not just for broadcasting, but for up-to-date UTXO set

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> technically you can create/sign a bitcoin tx if the wallet with xpub is up to date, and then you turn off network connection

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> itll work for the first tx only, after that youll have to go back online to update the utxos again

<r​ucknium:monero.social> With bitcoin you just need to know what you've spent already. You don't need a network connection for that.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I think we agree.

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> right, thats why it works for the first one only

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> after that, it has know way of knowing whats going on

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> after that, it has no way of knowing whats going on

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It can work multiple times if you have multiple UTXOs in the wallet

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> also looking forward to seraphis so we can do away with outputs/key image part of the process

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> thatll cut the number of scans from 4 to 2, like a bitcoin tx

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> sure, i guess by first time for each of those then. i get your point

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> point is eventually youll need to refresh

<r​4v3r23:monero.social> sure, i guess first time for each of those then. i get your point

<r​ucknium:monero.social> _Technically_ you can cache output public keys to use as decoys for Monero transactions. You could avoid having to connect to a node for unsigned tx construction that way. That's very bad for privacy, but we have seen behavior like that on mainnet.

<h​bs:matrix.org> as long as they are not retroactive you're good ;-)

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> hbs: you're months back in your client lol

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Such an out of context excerpt

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> (It was a joke in reply to 'halving' FCMP sizes)

<h​bs:matrix.org> indeed my client is completely lagging! It updated like crazy just after my reply, weird.

<h​bs:matrix.org> anyway looking forward to more FCMP related CCS anyways

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> - firefly-iii.org

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Does that work for tracking stuff like reimbursements?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> That would be an expense

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Can you attach files to those

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Ideally, publicly

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> demo.firefly-iii.org

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> The public part is the problem i think

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cause its financial i’m not sure

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Hm

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> It looks very good

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I did suggest that ajs can use the focalboard on mattermost for that

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Ideally something immutable

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Mint as morb :P

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Could go reimbursement as expense and attach all invoices too that. Then if you run a report for that would show all

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Maybe each month or end of year you publish profit/loss statement?

Revuo Monero Issue 188: September 28 - October 5, 2023. revuo-xmr.com/issue-188.html

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Thnaks

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Thanks

ofrnxmr: if MoneroKon has a finance council next year, i am not sure if we'll be able to swing you free travel and hotel to konferenco under the guise of involvement with -policy.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I've used this one before, very good. Of course, my offer for hosting it free-of-charge is always there.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We can run monero BGP?

<e​scapethe3ra:matrix.org> thanks, posted