<1​23bob123:matrix.org> So thats who took the chairs

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Tools for building personalized ActivityPub sites already exist. One notable example is Wordpress which has a well-maintained ActivityPub plugin.

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Is there some specific feature you want to see implemented?

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> If you're interested in Monero + ActivityPub working together, check out my project codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> This is actually good news, I don't have to build it. The wordpress plugin makes it even better and much easier. And I've checked out your project and it seems pretty solid. It's pretty much what I would have wanted to do. Now, I have even more questions than answers, why don't people use activitypub though esp to make the circular economy

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> monero.town is getting used

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Interesting, what about the UI? Isn't the reddit-like UI distracting? I get that lemmy is a link agregator, but I feel there's sth obvious I'm missing. Maybe I'm reinventing the wheel here. But ideally, I think there should be a similar experience to amazon/ebay etc but with the right foss software and minus the consumerist distractions. If monero takes out the currency distortion<clipped message>

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> through no inflation then we combine that with real goods and services, shouldn't we be able to ride that to the moon? And if we can federate all these shops then shouldn't that get rid of price distortions as well? And we can maximize efficiency by focusing on the real economy? Think about it, if we create a marketplace that is uncensorable then everyone can participate using mo<clipped message>

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> nero and it should weed out ineffeciencies. For example, how many contractors don't get the job because they lack some certification required by the bank? Assuming we have lending facilities in the marketplace secured by multisig then don't we have the basic building blocks? Even for sole proprieters to make it as well as big business? That's my line of thinking

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i didnt know you meant in the context of a shop

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> town is supposed to be a backup to reddit

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> neroshop could be the decentralized marketplace you want but they need a c++ dev to make any more progress

<c​trej:matrix.org> I want a monero shop aggregator. Not a list of all shops, but a search tool that aggregates all listed products

<c​trej:matrix.org> I think that is the only way to circumvent the "too small for serious use" issue

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> depending on how the activity pub plugin works that could be doable

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Ok, then I guess this is a different application though. Personally, I'm quite convinced that once multisig lands then we can get some bigger chunks of the economy eg real-estate, insurance, loans etc. Combine that with the aggregator and we're in business

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> best part of course is that you don't need to trust a third-party, you are the end-all, be-all

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> From what I heard from silverpill the aggregator part is already done though. He has his own project here: codeberg.org/silverpill/mitra. And I was told by multiple people that there's a wordpress activitypub plugin. Then it would just be a simple matter of spreading the word and getting as many "main" instances as possible. silverpill's is particularly interesting because<clipped message>

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> he has set up an invite feature that could be quite useful. It's all gpl too. It could just be a question of sending emails out and listing those businesses that would want to participate. Next, we channel traffic there.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> could be done manually but takes a loooot of work to keep updated

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> could be done manually but takes a loooot of work to keep updated

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Maybe at first, but as the db grows and the business case proves itself, it could be quite profitable

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if there was a woocommerce plugin that works with activity pub that could link a bunch of shops together that would be awesome

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> only if you partner with every single shop manually

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to get referral link

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to get referral links

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> or i guess if you sell adds

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> or i guess if you sell ads

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Isn't woocommerce a wordpress plugin? If wordpress officially supports activitypub shouldn't that be good enough?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> im looking at the wordpress activity pub integration and it seems like its not designed in a way that would be useful to us

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> youd still need a plugin to put all the woocommerce products into one searchable site

<c​trej:matrix.org> revenue sources could also be build in swap service or shop verification checkmark (like twitter)

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> ads would be an anti-pattern I think. They distort consumer behavior. And they would lead to us competing with amazon/google etc

<c​trej:matrix.org> or instant updates for verified shops, but slow crawler for everything else to save on compute and bandwidth

<c​trej:matrix.org> yeah fuck ads

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> From what I can tell from this wordpress activitypub plugin spec, I don't think it should be a problem. It seems pretty standard. But yes, there needs to be some search functionality added to make it make sense for our purposes

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> wordpress.org/plugins/activitypub

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this looks like its only usefull to put your wordpress blog posts into someones mastodon feed

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> revenue sources could also be build in swap service or shop verification checkmark (like twitter)

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> This could be part of a larger feature-set if monetization proves to be an issue. However, I feel we can get most proprieters to pay us just for admin

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> activitypub is pretty standard when it comes to requests etc so we can create our own UI that can be used with the same plugin no stress

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> And we get free traffic from the rest of the fediverse as well

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i personally have no idea how to write wp plugins but if you want to develop something id add it to monerosupplies.com :P

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> And we have our first supplier!!!

<c​trej:matrix.org> it would be in the sites best interest to include as many merchants as possible, even if they don't pay. Its not really viable to charge customers because they can just go to the store page themselfs. So charging sellers for some kind of "premium" function would be the best sistainablr long term strategy

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> sellers would also be incentivized to install the plugin

<c​trej:matrix.org> To include as many merchants as possible, it shouldnt be opt in, the same way you don't register to appear on google searches

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah that doesnt work

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not if you plan on using activity pub for product listings

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> sellers would have to install the plugin

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Agreed. Plus, from my preliminary findings, server costs shouldn't be too expensive and with the wp plugin already done, basically we're talking about the client-side UI only for the "main" instances.

<c​trej:matrix.org> I'm lacking the technical background, my brainstorming is primarily from an end user perspective

<c​trej:matrix.org> I want to go on amazon.xmr, click on product and click on buy

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you want it to be decentralized it needs to actually use activitypub and not just rely on crawling sites

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and this site would only redirect you to the original store

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> I think that is what is needed actually. The technical part's done. Like with most things blockchain, the experience is the problem.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> unless you also develop a whole new payment gateway that can split up the funds

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> and this site would only redirect you to the original store

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Perfect, the seller gets to provide their clients with the experience they want them to have

<c​trej:matrix.org> would it be possible to bridge "legacy" web pages to activitypub with eg. daily crawler?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> in theory

<c​trej:matrix.org> I'm okey with this

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Well, in the amazon-style listings, you can have the sellers details and avoid processing payments on their behalf

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its garbage UX when you want to buy stuff from multiple different stores

<c​trej:matrix.org> better then what be currently have

<c​trej:matrix.org> so its more like idealo.xmr

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i guess

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> best setup would be activitypub plugin that aggregates all products and then also handles payments to the respective stores

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> is it even possible to request a monero send-to-many payment?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> like, 1 qr that auto-fills addresses and corresponding amounts

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> so that you can pay all the vendors in 1 tx

<c​trej:matrix.org> more then 2 outputs is bad for privacy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 16

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> I don't know about splitting payments but payment cost is so low I think multiple payments is ok

<c​trej:matrix.org> can you put a 16 out in a single qr code? Or is that too much datam

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> waiting 20 minutes in between payments is terrible for shopping UX

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 16 is norm for exchanges, merchants etc, and 2nd most common

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the 10 block lock is the main problem

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you can send to 15 ppl + change in 1 tx using rpc, yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> a regular qr code cant store much data

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not 15 addr anyway

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> the 10 block lock is the main problem

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Ok, I agree that 20 minutes between payments is a problem but if the client only has to wait for one payment then it's not too bad I guess? And payment confirmation is pretty fast, you could just go by that for payment verification, like exchanges, before the payment is fully completed, you can process the goods

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Plus, if it needs delivery that takes time anyway

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you have 4 products in your cart you cant expect someone to sit there for an hour sending multiple payments

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I see

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> a single sent-to-many would solve this

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> a single send-to-many would solve this

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you just need to get it into the wallet because expecting the user to manually copy paste addresses and amounts will 100% lead to fuckups

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> or a churn tx, send to service, and service uses rpc to send to merchants

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> exactly

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> that could work but would make you take custody of funds, which would make it a centralized service

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> aka

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> my agg instance gets an order for a lambo from a different store

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ill steal the money lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> same: how do we know youre not going to swap the addr you display

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tf. Msg didnt send

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nfc and anoneros qr might work

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Say we create multisigs per transaction so the funds can't be stolen?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> hm, yeah ok. this idea is dead.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or monero:uri click button

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah no you have to redirect people, anything else wont work.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Sign the XMR address with the SSL certs, then the client verifies. That would require some more programming :) You could use spirobel's browser extension idea to verify.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero has built in ... signing of some sort

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Signing msgs using the addr iirc

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this is terrible. went from "link aggregation" to "needs a new activtiy pub plugin, payment gateway and address verification"

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You should just do redirects at first. See if the idea works.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> meanwhile neroshop is basically this but as a separate application and without a dev

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Then you don't have to do pay-to-many, too.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> looking into it rn

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Or what if the "main" instance just has time-lag problem but also supports redirects so that the client has both options?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i mean, this could work

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/lHDgTqAOXUdrvzJTUnoYawhv

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but still

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> but still

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> This is the admin's value? Like monerica. In the future, the admin could have arrangements with sellers such that it's like a wholeseller-retailer kind of deal

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> well

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> there you have it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/vTZmwRYgBfRhFYYxzcNDzdSu

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i could make a site and manually link stuff

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> I gotta admit, I really like your shop. And your hustle. I'll get mine up and running too this week I swear! I've always wanted to do it and now I think I've got what I need. Say, we could try and do this federation thing yeah?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> whats a good domain for a directory shop like this

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ceetee:

<c​trej:matrix.org> should not contain xmr, monero and/or crypto

<c​trej:matrix.org> we have to many of those, they all sound the same

<c​trej:matrix.org> trocador, haveno, kuno are all good examples of naming

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> By the way, I've been speaking to many retailers and wholesellers where I'm from and for them they don't care too much about this blockchain business but they'll take cash. They said I could list their items and then we agree on commission etc. There's many transporters too on side. Basically, if we can sell it, we can list it. All that's left is things like financial services, bu<clipped message>

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> t all in good time.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Moneroshopping!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jk

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monerozon

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Amaxmr

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> linkshop / shoppinglinks - you are talking about a aggregator thingy, right?

<c​trej:matrix.org> "the orange pages"

<c​trej:matrix.org> probably we shouldn't piggyback of some corpo tho

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Smthn like amaxon (i think)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Id call it something opposite of private, like.. (exit creativity) "openpages"

<c​trej:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/mOiVHExctEChiEeHsSNkNnlP

<c​trej:matrix.org> when choosing name and logo we have to be careful that we don't end up like this

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Haveno swaps back/front

<c​trej:matrix.org> because this convo reminds me of another project...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> jinx

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> It could also be all of the above actually. I'd prefer that way. Like pirated anime streaming services. afaik, it should boost network stability. I wouldn't mind running different versions too. Experiment with different UIs, different product offerings, different UX etc for different niches. Same high quality though, just different experiences.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> hm

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> thats more of a monerica thing though

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not much sense listing aniwave.to on a monero product directory

<k​aizer:hackliberty.org> Not in that sense. Like piratebay's hydra domain thing. Same backend multiple frontends

update on the "set to wrong address" reddit post from yesterday: waiting for the proof to be verified by Alex/Localmonero reddit.com/r/monerosupport/comments…ce=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3 thanks for sharing it monerobull

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> 👍️

<a​lex:agoradesk.com> The user is in contact with binaryfate so I'm just waiting for his response if they need something.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> probably send proof from the localmonero wallet that made the tx 😄

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> that is my understanding of how it works? it is LM's wallet which the user has no private keys for?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Alex | LocalMonero | AgoraDesk

<a​lex:agoradesk.com> We're in contact with this user. He already sent him something, he's waiting on a reply.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i asked a question reg who owns the wallet but thanks for the rephrased response