<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ping Rucknium ^

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> You're welcomed, it was planned

<b​oog900:monero.social> is moonstone sqps new venture?

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> cat's out of the bag now. yeah it is one of them

<i​ntr:envs.net> cool stuff

<b​oog900:monero.social> I mean I can only see it helping Moneros privacy long term

<i​ntr:envs.net> are you making efforts to inform exchanges about the incident?

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> Not currently, I'm unfortunately way too busy with other stuff. It would be a big help if other people could reach out

<i​ntr:envs.net> I'm a literal nobody, I don't think that would do much..

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> majesticbank have you seen any trades with those txids

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> job done, great work everyone

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Morpheus:

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> monerobull has anyone used your referral code for a large swap recently

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i think thats all our bases covered

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero condoms r supposed to break. Is normal

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if theyre smart, theyre hodling

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monerujo as a source tells me they planned to dumo

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And just used a privacy friendly wallet

sgp: <meta name="author" content="Serai DEX">

intentional?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Does help xmr is blacklisted of exchanges

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It would be a little shocking if a PocketChange tx was involved. Both because it's a new, rarely-used feature in a single wallet implementation and we discussed PocketChange privacy as a medium-importance research topic.

did rehrar / cyperstack design the website for you and serai? I guess that would explain it

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> It was a ccs rug safety safeguard

<r​ucknium:monero.social> xmrack counted 11-out txs from May to July 2023 IIRC. The arrival of Pocketchange didn't show up above the background level of 11-outs

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I can re-count. My counting box is a little busy.

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> Yea I can post the code for it tomorrow

<r​ucknium:monero.social> (using swap space even with 256GB RAM 😬)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> So where at defcon 1 peeps

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> im sad that i didnt get to see any of anhdres' illustrations in that report :( but a Monerujo shout out shall suffice!

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ruck find them and everyone lets meet in the #monero-war-room in 5

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I can tell sgp wrote a lot of the Moonstone site himself since it has misspellings :P

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> A hacker so cool he couldn't wait 20' for his next club mate paid with XMR

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I also told cloudflare” where under attack” 😬

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> Lol

<r​ucknium:monero.social> My personal opinion is that this kind of analysis has low probability (5% or less) of recovering any funds. If the community wants me to try, I could do it. IMHO, SGP has done a pretty good job already.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> With transparent blockchains, you know usually which addresses/outputs are adjacent to centralized exchanges would having to request exchange to do a "dragnet" database dump for you. That's the first barrier

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Tbh, its probably a debt right off

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We can claim in next financial year

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Would an exchange say, "Yes, based on probabilistic analysis that has not been peer reviewed, we will give you these funds. Meanwhile, the thief has already exchanged the XMR for something else and withdrawn."?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ima guess eth

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Then, there is the risk of innocent people being accused. Ring size 16. On every transaction.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I accused ofrn already!

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> So thats 15

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I don't think it can ever recover the funds.., Not after all that time.

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The best a CEX can do probably is tell us where the person withdrew the BTC or ETH (addresses or TXID)

<n​aphtha:kyun.host> i didnt do it guys i swear on my mothers life

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> latesthackingnews.com/2023/05/21/et…inners-guide-to-penetration-testing

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> forgot i had this saved

<s​pirobel:monero.social> it is just a bunch of speculation ... other wallets have similar features

<s​pirobel:monero.social> it also does not matter the money is gone

<s​pirobel:monero.social> the ccs needs to be shut down

<s​pirobel:monero.social> and we need to stop acting like monkeys

<s​pirobel:monero.social> reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/17ncne…/monero_real_talk_shut_down_the_ccs

I thought the cookie jar analogy was fitting

<s​pirobel:monero.social> this looks like an april fools site lol

imagine the irony if the cookie monster turned out to be a core team member currently on house arrest for allegedly defrauding a cookie company

<s​pirobel:monero.social> honestly it does not even matter

your thesis is completely wrong though. people are social animals and they survive by cooperation. what you're saying is that cooperation is bad and people liking each other and wanting to work together is bad.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> maybe it is all just an april fools joke like the fake announcement back in the day

<s​pirobel:monero.social> cooperating is one thing. insincere back scratching to get to the cookie jar is another

also, perfect is the enemy of the good so let's destroy what we have because it doesn't match a perfect ideal that doesn't exist

<s​pirobel:monero.social> okay fine. So I will take over luigis role from now on

<s​pirobel:monero.social> send all the money to me

why?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Geonic is so annoying

<s​pirobel:monero.social> because I will do a better job than this

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Whoops. Wrong room

you're not solving the cookie monster problem

so why should we just take your word for it?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No cookies left

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Problem solved

#monero-kindergarten please

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats a ccs called monero garden

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so why should we take someone elses word for it? this is just dumb

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And geonic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Please stfu

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Posting articles from 2019 is not relevant at all

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Go watch yur movie 900k times and buy some fake views

luigi has been doing a perfect job for how many years now? what's your track record for doing this kind of work for the community?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kthxbue

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Perfect my ass

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> He merged u and paid mj

will you let us have a conversation, you demented spambot?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nah

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Take it to a relevant room

hmm

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> im a sticking with ofrn doing it so geonic didnt get paid

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> He merged u and paid mj <= remember it is very hard to get something merged

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> soloptxmr?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Oh geo?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I remember

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> that was a bs merge luigi

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No consensus

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Feb 21 2023

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> there were no merges on table, no meeting. Just decided on your own after community said it was trash

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.to/#/!WzzKmkfUkXPHFERgvm:mat…cial&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> For matrix users ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > ok we merged the video. Can we merge another 1 or 3 to divert attention?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> For luigi ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Random merger

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and "remember"?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> lol. I was there. At every meeting.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont have to "remember". Ive been saying the same thing since it was merged. Its a luigi merge, not a community one. No consensus

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> alts and friend voting it up and it has fucking nothing to do with monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not geo's alts. VC investor alts

it's consensus ideally. Otherwise some soft feeling

there were plenty of people in support

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No there werent

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Go check the upvotes: friends, jwinterm and alt accounts

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And again, nothing to do with monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Can i open a ccs for my new burger joint?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It has an M in it somewhere

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bullshit ccs, bullshit merge. Everybody and their neighbor kniws it. Only people in support are the 5 people who viewed it before the ccs was posted

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And ignored the fact that it did NOT feature monero, despite the title of the ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Frontrunner for worse ccs of 2023

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Worst

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seriously

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Go through the list

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Msvb's defcon attempt would have been worse

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> isnt he in japan?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> saw some post

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Hardware

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ```

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Distribution of Kastelo enclosures began at Nostr World in Hong Kong yesterday, and we are distributing them free of charge right now in front of the main stage.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ```

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> nov 2

<s​pirobel:monero.social> this is what I mean. To suceed in Monero as a developer you have to bow to the guy with the windows computer. To make sure his "soft feeling" is thumbs up and not thumbs down.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> but it seems like people want to continue like this

<s​pirobel:monero.social> nobody is serious about anything. Everybody has their little grift and there is not even an attempt to work towards a goal.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> or what is the result of this? Who will take responsibility? My guess is no one. The funds will be filled up from the GF and everything will continue as usual, right?

<j​winterm:matrix.org> I think the only support that mattered in that case was Vik not me, as I believe he funded it. I said I thought it was worth opening donations, not sure why you're accusing me of manipulation when I really didn't care that much.

<j​winterm:matrix.org> Fwiw I agree with spirobel that the whole process from project selection to custody of funds is fucked, and imo the best course of action is to kill the CCS and leave core in charge of the website and not much else

<j​winterm:matrix.org> You know what would happen if magic "lost" $500k? Me neither, but at least it would be some regulated corporate entity that people could start a lawsuit against for mishandling of escrowed funds. Now people have to try and figure out how to serve poor Luigi papers if they want to sue someone.

<j​winterm:matrix.org> reddit.com/r/Monero/s/SPOo3qyhKL I tried to raise these concerns or at least concerns tangential to this two years ago apparently

<j​winterm:matrix.org> based on fp answer to me there I guess Luigi is part of a loose South African collective for legal purposes?

<j​winterm:matrix.org> all core members are equally (personally?) liable?

<i​ntr:envs.net> spirobel: good video

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Depends if ccs is a legal entity

<j​winterm:matrix.org> if you read the reddit thread from two years ago it appears not but they also kinda refused to be explicit

<j​winterm:matrix.org> it's like: "guys trust us with millions of dollars we're totally cool but just don't ask us who or what we actually are"

<s​pirobel:monero.social> every time I asked a basic question like: who actually is the core team? where can I read the meeting minutes? I just got handwavy answers.

<j​winterm:matrix.org> I don't think there's any other answers they can give

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so what do we do now? It seems like the old guard is not ready to give up yet. And it seems like they will just ignore everyone that is not in line.

everyone is free to vote with their money and you could launch an alternative crowdfunding system a la magic grants I guess 🤷‍♀️

<s​pirobel:monero.social> Somehow the argument is we need the current system to defend monero and it is better than nothing. But in practice it is worse than nothing. If the devs received direct monthly donations, each of them could maybe rug a few K at most. With the current system the rug potential is much larger.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> (and concentrated on just a few people, that have clearly shown that they are incapable / untrustworthy )

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> Yeah fwiw, MoneroFund.org exists

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Core meetings of what?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ccs meetings is where proposals get discussed

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so we have to bow to you instead? You dont even answer DMs, because you are so important and busy. The issue is not only that the system can rug the community. The issue is also that people navigate themselves into these choke points in the community and give themselves an aura of importance that is absolutely insufferable.

then...start something yourself, if you are so much more sufferable lol

<s​pirobel:monero.social> yeah I dont think I am better.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> Every dev should host their own funding page where they directly communicate with the donors

<s​pirobel:monero.social> we just need to make it easy enough to host and maybe prototype more of these systems to get the ergonomics right

I don't think any devs want to do that tbh

ime devs generally appreciate as little interaction with other humans as possible, and maybe this is generalizing too much but I think that they do in general appreciate having some shield between them and the hordes of unwashed masses

I think this is a known problem of the existing CCS - devs getting burnt out from being harassed by angry redditors or whatever

<s​pirobel:monero.social> that could be fixed by the ergonomic of the tool: you can only comment after you donated. kuno implemented some of that, but maybe it still needs some iterations so people start using it.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> that could be fixed by the ergonomics of the tool: you can only comment after you donated. kuno implemented some of that, but maybe it still needs some iterations so people start using it.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so people that dont donate need to be quiet

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> There are five community elected committee members that operate this. The closest thing in this community to a functional system with the ability to implement changes

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> Elections are opening up soon, this month or next month (I can't remember the exact time but I'll look it up)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Vote 1 biden

I don't believe uncle joe or any of his spawn are currently running for a seat on the monero fund committee :P

<s​pirobel:monero.social> it seems like you put in a lot of effort

<a​js_:matrix.org> it is possible to expand the scope of the Czech association we are thinking about forming for monerokon to include "software research and development" to help fund devs

<s​pirobel:monero.social> maybe it is a solution to fund academic research. It seems like an academic grants funding process for academics from the US

<s​iren:kernal.eu> That would be better than CCS. Still centralized but at least there's legal responsibility.

<a​js_:matrix.org> and European based donors would be able to claim a tax deduction

<s​iren:kernal.eu> If it will be a non profit we can also have elections

<a​js_:matrix.org> yes, same as MAGIC

<a​js_:matrix.org> approach

<s​pirobel:monero.social> the issue is that committees cant produce what we need

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> But still really on someone yeah. With win98 pc

<s​pirobel:monero.social> committees cant produce what we need

<s​pirobel:monero.social> There has to be mechanism to fund creative work besides an academics grant committee and a win98 cookie jar.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> we have to use our brains to come up with something better

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Start with: You have a collective action problem and an asymmetric information problem.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im not accusing you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youre the outlier

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> The real spend!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1 real upvote

<j​winterm:matrix.org> an outlier amongst outliers 😸

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The reason why people like the CCS is that it provides some minimal vetting to overcome the asymmetrical information problem. Donors save time by outsourcing the vetting to someone else. Donors either prefer not to spend the time to vet or are not capable of vetting since the projects are technical.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and this was almost monerobull

<t​igerbalm:matrix.org> Any updates on Haveno? There seems to have been no social activity for a year

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Wait

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Havent the projedr or the ccs?

<s​pirobel:monero.social> I thought about this a while ago and I came up with an idea for a piece of software that is called "Monerochan's trustfund"

<r​ucknium:monero.social> meito: They are still doing software releases. Go to #haveno-dev:haveno.network

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The project is alive and well, had a beta release yesterday

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Haveno **

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs is dead

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Oh, I guess woodser is posting dev updates in #haveno:haveno.network instead of #haveno-dev:haveno.network

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The "frontend" ccs has indeed had 0 movenent.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> the backend is moving along nicely

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> Another option for the EU would be great

<r​ucknium:monero.social> An EU org could just fork monerofund.org: github.com/MAGICGrants/campaign-site

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Baby steps

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Kon needs to be self sufficient

<t​igerbalm:matrix.org> Thnx

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Deverick and I modified the OpenSats website to be more project-based instead of individual developer-based.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> maybe 20-30k would have been fair for the frontend. I got a bit pissed off when they said they are searching for a volunteer react dev that can work for free.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> 20k nginx static page?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Normally the backend is done before a frontend

<s​pirobel:monero.social> electron app

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fair?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Theres no backend

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We paid to put lipstick on a pig - without a pig

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Theres no backend

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I mean. That ccs was supposed to have been completed in 6 months.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Well over a year later, theres to pig to put this imaginary lipstick on

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No* pig

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 0 would have been fair

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Should have waited to open til after the backend was functional

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Should have waited to open frontend ccs til after the backend was functional

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/AqAjPgKBhtjetZgAgYoCRyaX

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Haveno by design and consensus 😭

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I cant believe in the entire ccs proposal nobody asked "so, what about thr backend?"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The whole convo was about the backend, but backend had literally nothing to do with the ccs.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ppl asking questions about engines and kickbacks

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Frontend aka ccs doesnt include anything about the frontend

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not even what lang to be written in

<s​unchakr:monero.social> Hey all! We are going live in 30mins. Jump on if you’re free to chat about the CCS wallet hack, if you can :)

<s​unchakr:monero.social> streamyard.com/h6ke6gmzu8

<s​unchakr:monero.social> Or watch here: youtube.com/watch?v=ZDJqbIEJnSI

<c​howbungaman:matrix.org> Show starts at 11am est but will probably get “viewers on stage” segment around 12/12:30

<spirobel:monero.social> this is what I mean. To suceed in Monero as a developer you have to bow to the guy with the windows computer. To make sure his "soft feeling" is thumbs up and not thumbs down. <= the other guy is arguing I just merge almost everything

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> From what I can tell, Luigi literally just acts based on what is decided in community meetings

<spirobel:monero.social> so what do we do now? It seems like the old guard is not ready to give up yet. And it seems like they will just ignore everyone that is not in line. <= definitely false. Table is wide open.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Haveno had another test release literally yesterday

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Still needs some testing but it's getting there

<monerobull:matrix.org> From what I can tell, Luigi literally just acts based on what is decided in community meetings <= yes life is good when there is consensus.

Is there a community meeting today?

and if not, when is the next one, as there doesn't seem to be a meta/issue

plowsof: ^

I would prefer if a CCS-like system continues to exist. If others prefer self-funding then they can decide to do that, no one is forced to use or donate to the CCS if they disagree with the centralized aspect of it. Also in the future it should be made sure that large funds don't continue to just sit there, there should be an expiry date or something similar.

Ideally I want something where I don't have to waste too much thoughts on funding process itself, and while the CCS wasn't perfect it was good enough.

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/udnQiVZdFYvifjHxAEZHQVUB

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> Rucknium[m]: This shows the number of 12 output transactions right after pocketchange was released (early May)

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/iYcRldlkXlIryhVBoLXbSGAq

<r​ucknium:monero.social> xmrack: Thanks. The suspected CCS thief PocketChange transaction was 11-out. This would be a self-spend PocketChange tx, right?

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> This was 11 output transactions during the same time. I forget why there were more 12's. Its been a while since I looked into it

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> Found it, 12 output transactions were more common due to a typical pocket change transaction consisting of:

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> normal spend output + change ouput + 10 pocketchange outputs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, still not done and frontend devs would have left a long time ago if they "finished"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tldr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (replies to mb)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> That is nothing against the backend. But frontend ccs was AT LEAST a year too early

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ppl voted for haveno frontend, somehow confused themselves into thinking it came with a backend

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> is there any significance to the fact that the bad actor used monerujo as opposed to the cli? or a desktop wallet? seems odd to me.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I'd say they are more likely to be q community member or at least somewhat more involved than a regular person

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> > <@lordx3nu:matrix.org> is there any significance to the fact that the bad actor used monerujo as opposed to the cli? or a desktop wallet? seems odd to me.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> In reply to @lordx3nu:matrix.org

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> is there any significance to the fact that the bad actor used monerujo as opposed to the cli? or a desktop wallet? seems odd to me.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I'd say they are more likely to be a community member or at least somewhat more involved than a regular person

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Wtf matrix

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > From what I can tell, Luigi literally just acts based on what is decided in community meetings

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> More like

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> A) Luigi 👍 comm 👍 = merge

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> B) Luigi 👎 comm 👍 = merge

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> C) Luigi 👎 comm 👍 = merge

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> D) Luigi 👍 comm 👎 = merge

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> E) Luigi 👎 comm 👎 = dont merge

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Like I don't think North Korea is using pocket change

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> tf i repeated B

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I don't think we 100% know that they did use Monerujo. Whatever tool or choice was made. My peanut gallery thought is that the bizarre transaction structure is them giving Monero the middle finger on their way out.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Got to try looking into it regardless.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Luigi, im not "the other guy"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (im like 15 other guys)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> midipoet normal meeting would have been scheduled for next Sat. the past several days have blended into 1 or 2 (with my back assuming the shape of a banana)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> magic staff don't like ccs, people who benefit from the ccs like the ccs (myself included)

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> it's weird that someone with the hackerman knowledge of whatever network exploit was undertaken would then pull out their mobile device and use monerujo with poketchange (tm) selected.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ahen

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ahem

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Would you put it past luigi tobuse moneruno

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And try to churn using pocjetxhange>

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Noob shit going on over there

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If the stories are true, then yes, 100% believable that he himaelf used Pocketchange

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Also didnt tell the hackers for 60days

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So rip hope of catching the fuckup red handed

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hackers = community devs on ccs

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Sadly, no mordinals were minted on their way to the exit.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> spackle_xmr has a better churn script than pocketchange

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes 100%

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> plowsof: Thanks! It could easily be improved but I think it is pretty good for how simple it is. In fairness, PocketChange isn't a churn script at all.

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> ...so maybe not a very favorable comparison :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Makes change in a way that doesnt make unnecessary bloat

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> true true, PC wasn't meant for security rather convenience

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or fingerprintabe tx

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Could make it less fingerprintable. Throw in the odd 3+out with some dust, etc.

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> exactly. pocketchange is to seperate existing outputs to make spending easier is how I understand it because of the 20 minute wait times

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2 (or 16) only pls :P

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> would make more sense for the bb77 transaction to have been sent to 11 different unique wallets

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i dont believe the inside job - FCMP's would have been put to funding, and/or wait for Seraphis related work (that would add another 200~k to the pot) luigi was printing gold coins with 1000xmr's on them like candy back in the day

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> although apprently there was some linked enotes in subseqent transactions, so yeah I agree with spackle, I think this is a middle finger on the way out

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im not outright calling it an inside job, im just saying "if that opsec is true, monerujo pocketchange could be too"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant say "the best haxkers woukdnt bla blah"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hello

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> missed oppurtunity to shitpost in tx_extra

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The whole world is saying that ABOUT US right now

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> so yeah, i wouldnt put it past the lead maintainer of the top privacy project to run their system like a home user

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> just start using subaddresses > index 200 of the general fund wallet and pretend like this never happened

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> thank you

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> nobody will be talking about this in liketwo days. except us, lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> im saying.. what would we say if this happened to zooko

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a forced refund of the monero dot com donation + a 200 top up from the GF

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Problem solved

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> or we could say the person who donated the monero dot com funds 'saved the project' with it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tldr: dont put it past the thieves to have used pocketchange

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We speculated that luigi was secure

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We were wrong

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Maybe they just opened the wallet and oressed "ok" and didnt know what happened

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the blog post clarifying that the GF will handle all inprogress proposals will be going live soon

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> First time xmr users, long time crypto thieves

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I'm trying to stay solution oriented. Having fun imagining nested multisig schemes for CCSv2 (if indeed there is a v2).

11th November would have been the next meeting (posted now) monero-project/meta #920

in my version of reality the CCS will continue, this time, more securely and we shall live happily ever after. pls make this happen somehow

plowsof: the next meeting is still on the 11th?

Ah yes, ok. I see you posted an issue.

<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (im like 15 other guys) <= head exploding.gif

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I like the ccs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> The people who don't like it and call for it's destruction are a disproportionately high amount of people who have previously had their proposals rejected

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Curious 🤔

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I call for it's destruction and my proposal wasn't rejected

The CCS isn't the issue. The issue is the method/process through which raised funds are stored/secured.

<c​trej:matrix.org> exactly

<c​trej:matrix.org> one good think that happens because of this is the push for monero native multisig

the proposal that wasn't rejected also was not approved

<a​js_:matrix.org> Monero Events meeting in 10 minutes

maybe that retroactive proposal made the CCS self-destruct

<a​js_:matrix.org> monerokon PR will be closed

<a​js_:matrix.org> we are going with a self hosted solution

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Miss independent, miss self sufficient

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We are memed

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Forever in the meme chain

<r​ucknium:monero.social> jeffro256: Proposed method to detect post-PocketChange consolidation: Let transaction `Y` be a transaction with `N > 2` outputs. Transaction `Z` has `M` rings. Consider transaction `Z` to be a suspected consolidation transaction of those outputs from transaction `Y` if more than one ring of transaction `Z` has a mutually exclusive output from transaction `Y` as ring members. By "m<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> utually exclusive" I mean that the ring members in the multiple rings cannot be the same output from transaction `Y`.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Conjecture: The correct way to calculate the plausible maximum number of outputs from transaction `Y` that may have been consolidated in transaction `Z` is to construct an `N x M` matrix. If output `i` of transaction `Y` is in ring `j` of transaction `Z`, then let the `i,j`th element of this matrix be `-1`. All other elements are zero. Perform the Hungarian algorithm (en.w<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> ikipedia.org/wiki/Hungarian_algorithm) on this matrix. The absolute value of the result of the Hungarian algorithm will be the plausible maximum number of outputs from transaction `Y` that may have been consolidated in transaction `Z`.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> What do you think?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You can only count a row of the `N x M` matrix once since each output can only be spent once. You can only count a column of that matrix once since only one ring member in a ring is actually spent.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I started trying to code the logic, but then thought "there may be a computer science algorithm to do this": stackoverflow.com/questions/3605840…matrix-in-distinct-rows-and-columns

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The elements of the matrix are `-1` since the algorithm performs minimization. We need to maximize.

jesus christ how is this thing still on

i mean

good morning gang

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> irc bouncer sir

ay wassup boss, here's my multipass, thank u for ur work

sos did we ever figure out who stole cookie from cookie jar or na?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Not yet, all actual discussion is behind closed doors

oh rip

i really really REALLY hope they don't end up going public like some people suggested... that's just asking for fed infiltration... it would be the death of the only private and anonymous crypto

<x​mrscott:monero.social> As a general rule of thumb look under closed as well and it’s almost always n + 2 weeks

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> mattermost.monerokon.org/plugins/fo…j5owy?r=k9sryfcathag7x83dhz17afqc1r

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> i try and keep this uptodate too

good evening

always on

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> evening nioc/everyone

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> hmm

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> i'm in future then

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> morning

how is it there bob?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> same shit different day

crushing my hopes :(

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> day 63 of breach

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> for nioc day 62

mornin/evenin

<e​udaimon36:matrix.org> Hey, did you ever try to get a monerod.service working again? I'm committed to figuring this out, and thought I'd ask.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Rucknium: yeah all of that sounds correct. You can only spend outputs once, and rings only spend one output, so this sounds like a correct application of this algorithm. Something in the back of my head is saying that since all values are either -1 or 0, then there should be a more efficient algorithm, but this should be correct at least