<s​pirobel:monero.social> Nobody elected you. It is arrogant to claim that your "soft feeling" is speaking for "the community". But lets assume it does. What "the community" thinks is stupid and stands in the way of what needs to be done. Look at the way kaya had to work in quiet for example. Because it was clear that his proposal would have never been accepted had he announced his work beforehand and trie<clipped message>

<s​pirobel:monero.social> d to convince "the community".

<s​pirobel:monero.social> because it gives you a chance to taunt people.

you know you can fork the project if you wish right

just like the original core team members did. no one needs to “elect” you to do that

<s​pirobel:monero.social> if you dont like it the way it is you can leave

<s​pirobel:monero.social> get out

in all seriousness, "just let developers take individual donations" is no solution

who said this is a democracy anyway. most people are dumb, I don’t want ofrn and friends determining the future of the project

<s​pirobel:monero.social> It is a better solution than sending all the money to luigi.

you’re bitching and moaning like someone is forcing you to be here or is imposing their will on you

when it’s actually you trying to impose your will on everyone else

<s​pirobel:monero.social> just shut your mouth for a second you are not productive.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> nonsense

well yes I hope we do something besides "send all the money to luigi" going forward but that doesn't imply demolishing the CCS

<s​pirobel:monero.social> if you dont like it the way it is you can leave <<>> are you talking to yourself?

give me my paycheque 3 months up front in advance and see what happens to my motivation levels

he’s rephrasing what I said about forking the project

as i suggested the other day... y'all should just give me the ccs. I know how to opsec a wallet

spadin that'sa what I said too dude lol

ah, yet seems to fit

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> See the money, Take the money (and do no work or work on something else that provide more money, easy)

then it is settled... Lyza and I hold the new ccs with 2/2 multisig

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so you wouldnt be motivated to work if you got the money up front? not a good look.

we're not sure the multisig is working :D but I'm sure we can sort out something

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can we have a 30/40 multisig?

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I can be one of the signer :)

anyone who suggests multi sig - follow this guide with 2 of your friends monerodocs.org/multisignature

"not sure that the multisig is working"...? :skull: what the fuck

oh yeah XMR multi sig is hella fucky is part of why it was jsut like.... held in a wallet

hey what do you guys think like, Kraken does

with their cold storage

there goes one of the modules i had planned for my project then rofl if there's no multisig

Kraken has an excellent setup from what I know

spadin now your project is fix multisig :D

but don't remember the details

maybe they can share it with us heh

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> > so you wouldnt be motivated to work if you got the money up front? not a good look.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> how is it not a good luck to be honest?

but the person responsible for monero seemed really knowledgable

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> look*

I mean they must have the same issue, they also can't just trust the keys to like, some employee

I guess they can physically share a space

must be nice

i'm not cryptographer ;-; i'd be the last person to figure it out

girls and boys. one of two people leaked the seed and/or made off with a bunch of money. it’s either fluffypony or luigi. lower the attack surface by removing fluffy’s access and get back to business. very high likelihood that solves the problem. no reason to reinvent the wheel.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> wanna be my friend? ❤️

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> jk

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> if i handed any one of you <infinite> amount of money, are you coming to work on monday if you have a slight headache?

I mean if it's something I give a shit about yeah of course

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> back to volunteering*

plowsof I would still be here shitposting

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They dont even shitpost

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And are gone for lentgtht periods

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They dont _want_ to be present

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not sure why were calling water wet

i'd go to work anyway lol can't have coworkers thinking you a lil bitch

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so if people sent you donations up front you would just leave / not work?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im hiring

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Anybody that wants to work for free, dm me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Else u a lil bitch

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Lot of people would

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (Says spadin)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> if people gave me 3 months up front , i would have less motivation than if the funds where kept in an escrow (with checks and balances when its time to claim a payout)

oh wait i thought i was still getting a minimum wage

hell no then LOL

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> plowsof is a liar

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i would slowly transform into a greedy evil person

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Mr 50% rate cutting

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> he doesnt know how to be greedy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or even collect his own milestones

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> my ego would inflate too

<s​pirobel:monero.social> then dont give these people money we dont need them. There are enough people that have proven to be committed to the cause by the amount of work they did without any compensation.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plowsof doesnt have an ego hahaha. Funny guy

<s​pirobel:monero.social> so therefore we need the CCS? because we have a CCS coordinator that would not work otherwise?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plowsof is a liar

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Didnt i just say thay

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> He works for free

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then for free

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then for free

<s​pirobel:monero.social> he just puts simlies everywhere thats his job

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then collects 50% of pay and feels bad

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not even close

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> He does a lot of work for mrl

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bp++ ccs arent simple yknow

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what is "simlies" (smilies?)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> me meant similes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 🐒

token-based governance system for ccs maybe? tari has tokens on monero we could use that no?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Spiro, yknow whats funnt (repky to money emoji)

Tari is in alpha lol

and is not "on monero" but entirely seperate

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bp++ ccs vs geonics

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Same price lololololol

damn it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sarang gets paid less than geo lolololololoooooooll

fucking chatgpt's gaslighting about tari keeps getting worse

<s​pirobel:monero.social> conflict of interest for a core team member to run a project like this

<s​pirobel:monero.social> but it is dead anyway i guess

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nah

tari is being released eoy 2020

<s​pirobel:monero.social> the time for mimble wimble projects has come and gone

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Core team doesnt do anything else

<s​pirobel:monero.social> and gamers hate crypto

<s​pirobel:monero.social> it is over

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> give me 3 months up front then ask me to review this monero-project/monero-site #2199

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> see how my motivation levels are

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I understand, all the gaming corp that tried to push scams (NFTs)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> K

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> "ill do it tomorrow"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youll review it in3 days

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Stop lying

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hahaha

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> youll literally work your ass off and then burn yourself out trying to prove yourself

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> fantasy to think youd get paid and not dobthe work

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You dont twice the work and still dont ask

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You do*

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> in the short term, yes, but money/funds does things to people

yes... things... like private yatchs full of women

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can I get XMR so I can spend more time making proper monero node on HDD using SSD cache benchmark and tutorials?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yea. Ppl think they own ya

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But ofrn doesnt have a price

so is anyone actively working on monero rn or what's the deal?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yes

thank god ok

good

cause u know the feds working too on trynna fuck with it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> github.com/monero-project/monero

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> now i will review that -site PR tomorrow 😒

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plenty of work being done

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> BEFORE GETTING PAID

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MR ISNT EVEN MERGED

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Dont make me get my whip

<s​pirobel:monero.social> Nobody elected you. It is arrogant to claim that your "soft feeling" is speaking for "the community". <= if the community won't speak, what is your view of the appropriate action to take?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> 🤔

you can always ask me luigi

h/j

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Mayb im on ignore

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> cant

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> i would like to nominate myself as monero ceo, as fluffy as stepped down

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> i would like to nominate myself as monero ceo, as fluffy has stepped down

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Id like to nominate geonic

<s​pirobel:monero.social> admit that the community does not know.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who doesnt speak?

<s​pirobel:monero.social> that it is out of answers

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Idk what hes talking about

<s​pirobel:monero.social> bro you cant hear the voices?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Word salad

<s​pirobel:monero.social> whats up with that?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "if the community wont speak"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bruh, we dont stfu

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I have like 20 alts on every continent going wild 28hrs a day 8 days a week, + weekends

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Wont speak..

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The only one not speaking was the silent 60 days where community asked for their moolah and were met with radio silence

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "community doesnt speak"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Opposite day

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> More like we dont stfu

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> you use fluffy chat?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not anymore

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> spirobel fork off!!!! repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…c88857ef27b6ca9f0188ba288f037c75788 :D

<s​pirobel:monero.social> I will never leave. You are stuck with me. 🤣

<s​pirobel:monero.social> I will never leave. You are stuck in here with me. 🤣

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> More like we dont stfu <= come to consensus is what I meant

<s​pirobel:monero.social> that it is out of answers <= ok so just leave them in ideas?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We came to consensus

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Absolute trash

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 9 downvotes is a DOA proposal

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 8*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Upvotes by people who were

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> a) involved in the making

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> b) were involved before the ccs was created

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> c) cant read titles or pay attn to the fact that the ccs title is fkn lie

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> d) fake accounts

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Arent upvotes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Midi says we weigh votes. If we did, it was 1-8 or 2-8

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Anyway, old, irrelevant news about a shit stain on 2023 ccs record. "featuring monero"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> someone, please, tell me where

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs is only a charity for some ppl. We reject trash proposals all the time, somehow this one cant be rejected. Was an auto merge from before it was posted

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Song and dance about community support didnt work, so just merged it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> paid him milestones where were just paying his bills, and then milestones for winnig shit awards

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The ccs WAS TRASH

which proposal was this about?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Geonics movie

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We came to consensus <= I'm not talking to you

you two are accusing me of opposite things more or less

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ah, well.. what i said still stands

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Still talking about this?!

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Re spirobel - i know spirobel doesnt like ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But thats neither here nor there

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > spirobel fork off!!!! repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…c88857ef27b6ca9f0188ba288f037c75788 :D

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Is all there is to say abt it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant really ask someone to stop doing something that has nothing w do with you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tl: spirobel cant tell ccs what to do, when spirobel has nothing to do with ccs. It would be like us telling litecoin to stop their blockchain

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like ok. Thanks for your input.

<s​pirobel:monero.social> what is the purpose of consensus if it stops people from doing stuff and money still gets lost?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> +3 xmr donation to the general fund 😭 thank you nitter.net/WatchFund/status/1720948930395926532

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Let us know if you see 2k xmr

thinking of doing another movie ccs just to see ofrn implode

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> 😄

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> lel

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> it would be funny, if you werent just chirping drunk again

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> AA

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This idiot thinks i care about him or his movie

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> plenty more scum where he csme from, hes not the first, the last, or the largest pos around either

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> has nothing to do with geo or his movie

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And everything to do with shitheads who trt to abuse the ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You didnt slip through the cracks, you were smuggled in the back door

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So how bout ya just stfu, damn drunkard

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What pisses me off about geo, is that he literally has 0 to add to any conversation in this room

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fuckin casually drops drunk texts at 3am every weekend

lmao my movie has been living in your mind rent-free for the last 6+ months

But sure, you don’t care about it :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and lives in a fantast where his ccs is honest, and the movie features monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nah, it hasnt

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I live under your bed

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> thats another fucked up trait of yours

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You project onto everyone

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fkn head case

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> oFRn iS UsINg AlTs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hi oFrN #65257

can u blame me for thinking you do? you’re talking to yourself even now

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> R ya stupid?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes i blame you for thinking ibdo

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youre a damn retard

Walls of text by the same demented spambot, day after day

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You cosigned for mj accusing me of bein an alt over a year ago, fkn loser

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then come and accuse me and ceetee of being rotten

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Put the pipe down. Now its like 15 of us

sorry for not being able to distinguish between a bunch of useless nyms

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <g​eonic> Walls of text by the same demented spambot, day after day

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> On topic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You just post articles from 2019 and try to cancel ppl

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fkn loser

work on developing a personality, I guess?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And throw mom insults. You have no defence to anything on topic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Work on that oscsr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <g​eonic> sorry for not being able to distinguish between a bunch of useless nyms

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MODDDDSSSSS

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (im pretending to be geo)

Working on it, actually. What are you working on? Sorry, forgot you spend your whole day on Matrix.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Working on cancelling fluffy?

can’t possibly do anything productive when you’re spamming all day

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or getting the movie that features monero .. wait

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> it doesnt exist

Fluffy should’ve stepped down years ago, not sure why he’s still hanging on

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Same reason you csme back

but you literally just got here 5 minutes ago so what would you know

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Says you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jk. You came back for the $$

Lol, it's Sunday morning, chill guys

Sorry I was busy making a movie and couldn’t spend all day entertaining you dumbass

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> A movie _not_ featuring monero

Saturday night where I am :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Must have been another rendering error

None of your business what it features and what it doesn’t. Have you ever even donated to a CCS proposal?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Saturday night fever

what matters is that *enough* people think it features monero and want to contribute to it, which they did

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> the title of the ccs makes it my business ya fkn clown

who the fuck are you to say what is worthy of support and what isn’t?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Think?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It either does, or it doesnt

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> dishonestly bs isnt worthy if an audience at all

So you’re the smartest one in the room and everyone else is too dumb to read a ccs description? And decide whether they want to donate or not?

the people giving their money are all idiots?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "help me win an oscar" is what the title should have been

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <g​eonic> the people giving their money are all idiots?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 100%

you’re not as special as you think, get a grip

lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They wouldnt do it again

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <g​eonic> So you’re the smartest one in the room and everyone else is too dumb to read a ccs description? And decide whether they want to donate or not?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> yes. Nobody reads

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Some do, most dont.

How can you be so confident and so dumb at the same time

must be a special diagnosis for your condition

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cuz i speak facts

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Peoplenread haveno ccs?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Read yours? No

And the person who sent 100 xmr to my proposal didn’t read it?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> correct

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I know who that was, dumbass

Who

so the whale didn’t read the description but just happened to message me anonymously and tell me what to put as a special thanks in the credits

right

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ask them yourself if i know

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Corredt

I don’t know who it was

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I know about before and after, fool

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I do

congrats

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And you do too

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol

anyway, you’re a nobody who hasn’t accomplished anything, either in this community or outside of it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> why argue with a liar and a drunk? Good night geoscam

But keep spewing shit and if you think you’re doing something useful

night alttard

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Was that directed at me? Or the 15 other handles?

see you next time you wake up thinking about my ccs :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont ever wake up and think about your ccs

because you think about it 24/7?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> R u fkd?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This aint a dm

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont give a fuck about you or your ccs

The chat logs prove otherwise

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They prove 15 peopke dont either

see how long you can go without mentioning it. 24hrs tops

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> youre not famous

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youre high

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Goodnight

😘

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ofrnxmr lives rent free under geos bed, everyoidy knows thst

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Fkn boogeyman

don’t forget to get your alts to back u up next time. you’re pretty weak on your own

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont give a fuck about you

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Maybe they do?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youre a waste of my time. I have absolutely nothing to converse with you about

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youre a parasite. period.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If anybody else felt like like talking to you, thats what they chose to do.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> To me, youre just a shit stain on the ccs. A number.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nothing personal.

<c​trej:matrix.org> I don't want geonic and friends determining the future of this project either

<c​trej:matrix.org> > <g​eonic> who said this is a democracy anyway. most people are dumb, I don’t want ofrn and friends determining the future of the project

<c​trej:matrix.org> plowsof told me to use the quote feature so the irc users can see too

<c​trej:matrix.org> ngl I ship drunk ofrn and drunk geonic

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Maybe those two finally went to sleep now, and we will have a period of relative calm here? :)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> famous last words

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont sleep

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> or drink

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tyvm

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Vampire confirmed!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 24/7 so idk about that. I do daylight hrs too

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> With curtains closed?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or spf5000 sunscreen

<4​rkal:monero.social> Anyone noticed a pattern here?

<4​rkal:monero.social> People from core or people who have been funded via ccs just want it to continue without seeing any of its problems

<4​rkal:monero.social> *and

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/IvWmrKRQjAsRjriGdsgdsAru

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> My pattern

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who are "people from core"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ive seen 1

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And he didnt say what you said

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Hello Moneroanons,

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> britanon here requesting help

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> HMRC is not disclosing taxation metrics use to, well, tax crypto transactions.

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> WHy cant I paste links here?

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> CRYPTO100100, 100150, 100200, 100250, 100400 AND 100500 policies are not available on the HMRC website.

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> It just states 'information withheld because reasons'

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Any resources or reading materials related to the above topics?

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Topics - Compliance: Indicators of cryptoasset usage

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Compliance: Risks

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Compliance: Questions to ask

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Compliance: cryptoassets in investigation

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> Compliance: Mixers and Tumblers

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> yea.

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> So the problem here is, FATF consiers AECs like XMR to be a flag redder than Soviet Russia. So it might pop up on my PF back when Kraken had XMR and I had bought XMR from Kraken.

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> So the problem here is, FATF considers AECs like XMR to be a flag redder than Soviet Russia. So it might pop up on my PF back when Kraken had XMR and I had bought XMR from Kraken.

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> I love XMR and have no intention of actually taking my HW wallet on a boating trup

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> I love XMR and have no intention of actually taking my HW wallet on a boating trip

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> I also know that my taxman has a long arm and in my case a bad teeth.

<b​ritanon:mozilla.org> So any suggestions on how the above Risks are taken into account while those dogs go on a fishing expedition is greatly appreciated.

<c​trej:matrix.org> haven't been funded by anyone ever and off I'm unrelated to core. Still want ccs to persist as I think its the only viable option to give "real" devs the assurances they want and need.

<c​trej:matrix.org> There have been problems before the incident, and now we have one more. Still a better option then other funding options in many cases.

<c​trej:matrix.org> Thats nothing that prevents us, the community, from attempting to fix the CCS while advancing alternatives in parallel

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> Core needs an overhaul too. It's hard to take it seriously when so much tireless work is done by long time volunteers who just happen to not be part of le secret club.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Can i apply to be pa?

it's hard to take long time volunteers seriously?

the FFS > CCS was created to fund "real" devs while also giving the community to select and funds other things that they consider important.

the most important aspect is still its ability to fund quality devs

and although the devs need to jump thru some hoops it seems to be less than other alternatives which is an important quality

yep ^^^

*the ability to select and fund

Cat, bring me more tea please

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> it's hard to take Core seriously, not the CCS or the long time volunteers.

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> well, the ideal version of the CCS.

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> clearly the CCS needs to be optimized

the connection I was trying to make is, core are long time volunteers

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> yeah I get that. but core often operates without any transparency. for example, I was under the impression that all of fluffypony's privileges were revoked, so why was he still involved with creating and maintaining the CCS fund?

<i​ntr:envs.net> because he created the seed ages ago

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> I'm not even accusing Fluffy of anything, but because Core operates with absolutely no structure, when you have a serious event like this happen it's hard to figure out who exactly what doing what

<i​ntr:envs.net> CCS has existed for a long ass time and they never changed wallets afaik

that part seems odd

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> right, so then why wasn't a new seed created?

<i​ntr:envs.net> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ good question

the issue seems to be security of funds and that will be addressed

things worked without issue for a long time

<i​ntr:envs.net> the part that makes me scratch my head is how only the CCS wallet was affected, nothing else

having much stagnant monies there created a situation that hadn't been previously

although any loss is obv not a good thing

it was the only wallet on that machine

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> luigi, I FORGIVE YOU !!!!!!!!!!

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> after using a multi sig wallet in the cli it all makes sense

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Did you actually try, multisig "by hand", right?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> yes, i think if the other 2 wallets where people, the exchanges might be easier to manage instead of juggling things , but simply copy and pasting longs strings several times is a nightmare

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Later you will have to send files around in a (hopefully) secure way, even more night-marish :)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what i was able to achieve easier was offline signing - i even did a "11 out" tx in the cli (by pasting address amount address amount in a text file) then copying this one long string into the cli

<s​pirobel:monero.social> some goes for addresses ... thats why i like browser wallet UX where you dont need to copy and paste.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> putting a file on a usb, walking back and forth (iirc 3 times in total) was OK

<s​pirobel:monero.social> usb???? 😱

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> y-yes .. i didnt audit any QR code things myself yet :(

<h​bs:matrix.org> the syntax of make_multisig should be changed to force the user to specify total shares and threshold

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> could the docs on the `exchange_multisig_keys` part be more clear also hbs?

<h​bs:matrix.org> It's disturbing that the same function has to be called twice with different parameters yes, but that's just a matter of documenting the process a little more I'd say

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i felt your pain hbs, paste something... was it the correct string? (that all look identical) .. hmm backspace.. uhh ctrl+c OOps

<h​bs:matrix.org> when calling make_multisig if you paste one of the Multisig... content with a trailing LF before the last one well you have to start over because your multisig is now M/N-p :-(

<h​bs:matrix.org> So definitely not for everyone

<h​bs:matrix.org> But otherwise it's fine

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Wow, didn't know this one already

<h​bs:matrix.org> that's why I am suggesting to add the total number of shares as a parameter to make_multisig so it can check there are enough parameters

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i assume it didnt work -> was audited -> considered experimental -> 200iq implemented it into their own projects and the cli remained untouched

<r​brunner7:monero.social> fluffypony's new proposal is really interesting, nice to see all laid out what there is to manage for Monero to function. If we come around to try this, I do wonder however where all those workgroup members will come from: Well versed in security things, multi-year community presence for trust, ready to do volunteer work, ready to take heaps of blame if shit hits fan nevertheless <clipped message>

<r​brunner7:monero.social> again ... there must be legions of people waiting :)

we didn't even find anyone to take over the maintainer job in addition to luigi, 6 new workgroups that are highly sensitive...

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> super-administrators aka

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Ah, somebody already showed his head. selsta, you are recruited by force :)

<r​brunner7:monero.social> This will get interesting for sure.

I already have too much, not taking over more responsibilities :D

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> it would be easy for a corporation to slide in and say don't worry.. we can take care all of this :) and then... bad

<r​brunner7:monero.social> If we only let people apply that manage to build a 2/3 Monero multisig wallet "by hand" as a recruitment requirement, almost nobody will be left :)

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> the monero core team (sponsored by cake wallet)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> do i mention the CSS typo or

rbrunner7: not EVERY workgroup needs people with all those traits, some are more technical than others and some require more human interaction than others

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> " The recent CSS wallet incident" -> CCS :)

<t​isktisk:monero.social> No typo, just couldn't get my wallet margins to align

So that's how they did it. Css

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Nginx gotcha

Welcome

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Tbh what fluffy is proposing is a huge task and all the groups would have to align there thinking on how monero goes forward, cause it could turn into factions

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> we have until Jan 2025 to think about it, meanwhile

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And is there enough people to fill it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> People a quick to say lets disband, but Havn’t thought it through

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> People are quick to say lets disband, but Havn’t thought it through

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I have a gut feeling that fluffypony called some bluffs here :)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> rename core to super-administrators (sounds cooler)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> this is chatgpt prompt on how to give people a reality check

gentoo, which is contributor-only sets a precedent similar to what has been proposed

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeah seem like it. Here is my cards so me yours.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Also i wouldn’t disclose cdn and infrastructure info.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Some stuff you cant decentralize

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeah seem like it. Here is my cards show me yours.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> luigi you are promoted to super-administrator

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> now lets move on

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <s​elsta> we didn't even find anyone to take over the maintainer job in addition to luigi, 6 new workgroups that are highly sensitive...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I shared similar sentiments with someone before reading backlog here

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Csnt even manage matrix workgroups

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Also with multi year experience

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nevermind collaborate on infra

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And needs to have good opsec and admin skills

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> On a whole another level

opsec practises for all security sensitive groups should be open to scrutiny

monero dev running windows sounds like a fetish to me

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Need to re evaluate there setups

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Like os they use, communications they use

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Security measures

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Etc

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We can discuss and they can implement

lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I understand the.. point of the gesture, but i think were a ways away from having that sort of community.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> First step degoogle!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nah

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant even degoogle -policy

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Just do the basics

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> first step - hire googlers who cant use github

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Git*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And scammers who have been around for 5 years

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We dont have enough captains for a 12 ship fleet

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I can only help in some aspects. Its up to people to do the rest.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I’ll be rear admiral !

tbh these are small enough pieces, and plenty of the core team will participate in the workgroups

I'm confident that in 2 months we can self-assemble these workgroups and do hand over

I know that there might be changes these workgroups want to make to things, but they can start with the status quo and then figure out from there

also workgroups can start really small

eg. the domains & dns workgroup can be like 3 people

and then grow it from there

(we also have a precedent for this, eg. the VRP Workgroup is 2-3 people)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We couldnt even organise a piss up in a pub

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or a pull in a brothel

I'm sure plenty of people will step up and be willing to take on the responsibilities in one or more workgroup, I think the challenge will be filtering down the people willing to do things

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Took kon weeks to workout that there going to be an nfp

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> It was like post malone “circles”

I agree that decision making *within a workgroup* might take time, we certainly see that even with PRs, but I'm confident we can get the initial part done in short order, and then those workgroups can take months to get used to their role and to decide on changes they want to make

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Hmm

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I like your confidence

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I’ve been here a short time maybe 8months and i dont think this task achievable from what i have seen.

well lets see

wiki . getmonero . org should show something like this on a per workgroup basis along with opsec practises/guidelines:

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Board members

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I vote plowsof to do all

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Actually i want to be janitor

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Michał Górny (mgorny)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Janitor

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I want to shine plowsofs boots.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Maybe refill his water bottle

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Thats his pa

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ok so we have janitor and pa filled

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Whats next

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> for 1 group

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Maybe the fluffy is onto something

<c​trej:matrix.org> 6 groups with 3 people each = 18 highly trusted multi-year volunteers with great opsec that are not at capacity with their current tasks

<c​trej:matrix.org> seems ambitious

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seems like a fantasy

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Sam James (sam)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> newbie

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They havr to come to consensus too, remember

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Good job description

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or "community core" will "chainsplit"

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> All groups need to have aligned thinking or its hinger games

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> All groups need to have aligned thinking or its hunger games

<c​trej:matrix.org> And I don't think thats the current state of community

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Actually i want to be janitor <<>> I asked for this position years ago

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I might look good in leather :0

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Sold

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> cat hired you?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Im a in newbie job position then

so no more anon people in positions of responsibility?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cat is hr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cat is anon

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Are they anonero now?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Msvb and geonic are doxxes, as is mj

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think anon vs doxxes is a pointless metric

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> and the fluffy

some are anon

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Not sure about luigi, cause mario knows him

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im talkibg about the scammers

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Most community members who rip us off, are well known

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Theyre not anons

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Piconeros

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I can say this will flush out the peoples

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And we swing the axe

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And we have plenty of anons who are indisputibly solid. Like selsta

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Goldstar that bloke

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Employee of the month

<3

don't forget that someone like binaryFate might choose to be on multiple workgroups

it doesn't have to be distinct people, there can be overlap

<c​trej:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/WmNaucEaFhZWuzCovcpZJfQY

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Can we clone selsta?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Make selsta k8 and replicate the pods

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <f​luffypony> don't forget that someone like binaryFate might choose to be on multiple workgroups

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Boooooooo

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> how often are we supposed to get transparency reports? Are we late again

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Kon is waiting btw

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I think we could do worse than starting with the second workgroup on fluffypony's list, "CCS Workgroup". Remember, there was something with the CCS.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> You have 3 months get to work

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We have one already 🤣🤣😭😂😂👍

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Wow, really?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We have a oaid coordinator and everythinf

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> All department heads meeting this weekend on monero island

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Clothes optional ;)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Look how this worked out

just get a few people to do multiple rolls and call it ..... core

sorry

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The coordinator was left in the dark

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And devs were starved for months

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> @nioc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> cant even communicate within a vacuum

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i coordinate the CSS of getmonero

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I think it just needs to be re evaluate

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I thought erc did that

plowsof is head of the CCS workgroup \o/

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And not be reactive

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hehe

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > All department heads meeting this weekend on monero island

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The jet was stolen

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> So you get a name badge when your head of department?

take the yacht then

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We can use tesla

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Still in the garage

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> my gpg keys are not cold .. connected to a hot laptop

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> You stole the laptop

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> can we have a secure ya keys workshop at monerokon (travel reimbursements and hotel stays???)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Are you mining? If so, thats normal

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Lets see how kon goes going independent

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> See if they have a plan to protect the chairs

<t​isktisk:monero.social> Monero island sounds cool af

<t​isktisk:monero.social> Sorry for unnecessary comments but I have to add a send or I get lost digging through this chats endless history

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> CCS proposers in the work in progress list are covered by the general fund (officially now) getmonero.org/2023/11/04/ccs-wallet-incident.html

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> This is the way

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Facebook offical?

<h​bs:matrix.org> will test how good the trezor safe 3 is for gpg keys as soon as it's available

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> works on ledger fine, and trezor, however, the security of it is ... questionable

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Out of all this lets see if the people who whinged standup

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> look at this very smol ledger pgp key github.com/plowsof/pgp/blob/main/plowsof.asc

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> only for signing things, not encryption of sensitive things

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeah

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> No forward secrecy

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> so never mind monero keys... we need offline secure pgp keys first 😟

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Gpg*

<r​ucknium:monero.social> You can make PGP public keys that can only be used for signing, even if a user tries to force using it for encryption. My key is like that.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> example: there was a .pdf file posted here containing a script , did i click it.. yes. could that have contained an exploit in it and now my pgp keys are stolen, yes

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i am not using qubes or whonix or any hardening , so i need to improve my own setup , this is my personal takeaway from recent events

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i would have to start from scratch, new hardware everything

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Attack vector

<j​ohn_r365:monero.social> plowsof - I think we're all questioning our security after this. I certainly am too.

<s​paceguide:matrix.org> cube os needs a very decent machine to run on, and a swat of mem. it will need to get a bit known off

<s​paceguide:matrix.org> it was actually designed, to research virusses

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> gpg --full-generate-key

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Please select what kind of key you want:

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> (1) RSA and RSA (default)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> (2) DSA and Elgamal

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> (3) DSA (sign only)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> (4) RSA (sign only)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Your selection?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> redhat.com/sysadmin/creating-gpg-keypairs

<s​paceguide:matrix.org> using rsa /rsa...

<h​bs:matrix.org> never managed to get the ledger agent to work properly, kept on dying on me

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> dies on me for ssh keys.. so im not surprised , not polished at all

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> support.yubico.com/hc/en-us/article…259-Using-Your-YubiKey-with-OpenPGP

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Buy a thinkpad off of ebay that is compatible with libreboot

<t​obtoht:monero.social> osresearch.net

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I can help anyone with their security setups if needed, I've spent countless hours on it. Feel free to message me and ask (e.g plowsof if you need help)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> github.com/drduh/YubiKey-Guide

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or this too

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> qubes-os.org/doc/certified-hardware

met the owner today of this shop at a conference

Re: libreboot

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> thanks!

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> privsec.dev/posts/linux/desktop-linux-hardening

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Forgot i had a list in my standardnotes

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Security workshop is a good thing to have at monerokon

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Degoogle to tinfoil hat level

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> git.hackliberty.org/hackliberty.org/Hack-Liberty-Resources

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> anonymousplanet.org

The Hitchhiker’s Guide to Online Anonymity :)

oh shit new monero version

0.18.3.1 has been out for a bit

just saw it pop up on my client... anything good?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yest

:OOOOO

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> DNS servers have been updated today so the autoupdater works woohoo

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Nioc offical announced a while a go

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Dns poisoning ftw

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> thankfully the autoupdater does not trust, but verifies everything!

<i​ntr:envs.net> also nitrokey.com/products/nitrokeys for an open source alternative

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

:') i'm close to 0.1 xmr milestone

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> solokeys.com

<i​ntr:envs.net> Or those, if you're in the US yes

<i​ntr:envs.net> but they're generally shittier than nitrokeys

<i​ntr:envs.net> also privacy.awiki.org

<h​bs:matrix.org> Trezor are FIDO2 compatible too

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> keepassxc now supports passkeys fwiw

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Not sure how a hardware keys differs from an encrypted usb?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Hmm

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Fit for purpose i guess

<i​ntr:envs.net> This is a terrible idea though

recanman: computer can access usb storage and steal keys; hw keys don't let the computor do that

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I just use yubikey

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> More compatible

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Ah, ok

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> can you expand on that?

that's what i got too a yubi

<i​ntr:envs.net> Hardware keys offer security features such as fido2 and housing PGP keys without the secrets ever leaving the device, this is very different from encrypted flash storage

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Also buy two of the keys

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Backup!

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Interesting, I never actually looked into them. I wouldn't buy from a third-party though

<i​ntr:envs.net> The point of passkeys (which are basically FIDO2), is that

<i​ntr:envs.net> - you have a master secret key

<i​ntr:envs.net> - you have a secret key generated for each identity on each website

<i​ntr:envs.net> These keys should stay on a physical device at all times without the ability to extract them, as this is against the fido2 spec and defeats the security model

<i​ntr:envs.net> Passkeys as pushed by Apple and Google are plain retarded and just attempts at vendor lock-in. If a service for some reason *requires* you to use a passkey and you can't be bothered about security, then sure, use keepassxc. Same with 2fa

<i​ntr:envs.net> if you actually give a damn about the account and its security, use a physical security key

i use keepassxc totp on sites that don't support yubikey

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We can use piv to sign in too monero work :0

<i​ntr:envs.net> as long as you know that it nullifies the '2' in '2 factor auth'

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> is it impossible to extract the keys from the device even if you have physical access to it?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Seperate totp from pw manager

<i​ntr:envs.net> Just like with a Trezor, yes

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> unless you know the master password

<i​ntr:envs.net> No, not even then

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> just like with keepassxc, no?

<i​ntr:envs.net> A physical security key by design never reveals the security keys generated on it

<i​ntr:envs.net> Authentication is used to sign/encrypt data with the key, but never to reveal the key itself

<i​ntr:envs.net> that's what makes it secure

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I wouldnt put all my keys in the same place

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> i understand.

<i​ntr:envs.net> Yep, for redundancy you should buy 2 of them, register them, and store one of them away in a safe place

<i​ntr:envs.net> if the device breaks, you're SOL

<i​ntr:envs.net> A physical security key by design never reveals the private keys generated on it

<i​ntr:envs.net> I wonder if editing messages on matrix causes a bunch of spam on the IRC side. If so, sorry

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yolo it !

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Go old school

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> *oops

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> i'm still not sold on 2FA

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> ?

<i​ntr:envs.net> What flavour of 2fa? or the concept itself?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> IIRC Yubikey (not necessarily other hardware devices of this type) are closed source and therefore inappropriate for people with extreme threat model.

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> the concept itself

<i​ntr:envs.net> it's an objectively better authentication flow that minimizes collateral damage from data breaches and makes phishing a lot harder

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> sure, 2FA is more secure than single authentication, but by that logic so would 3FA and 4FA and 5FA

<i​ntr:envs.net> even if you're not retarded, phishing can happen to you or a relative, etc

<r​ucknium:monero.social> If you use hardware devices for PGP, make sure to generate a revocation certificate so you can broadcast it if you lose your device.

<i​ntr:envs.net> That's not an argument against 2fa though

<i​ntr:envs.net> sure, wearing a bullet proof vest helps against not dying from gunshot wounds, but so would riding a tank

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> the argument is that single authentication can be secure enough for the daily life of most people, and that 2fa adds a layer of complexity that leads to poor usability.

<i​ntr:envs.net> should you therefore not wear bullet proof vests in warzones?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Its security layering

<i​ntr:envs.net> Security is always a trade off of convenience to an extent. Use workflows that work for you that are secure enough against whatever threat model you have

<i​ntr:envs.net> Data breaches happen very often, it just depends on what's at stake really

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> of course, i agree.

<i​ntr:envs.net> "secure enough" is very much up to the individual to decide, as long as they are informed

<i​ntr:envs.net> yknow, like not using password authentication to ssh to your ubuntu box

<i​ntr:envs.net> if there's a wallet on it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> You get keylogged then your stuffed

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ssh i use ed25519-sk

<i​ntr:envs.net> very based

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> of course splitting my mnemonic seed in 24 different locations would be more secure than having my mnemonic seed as a whole in one of those locations.

<i​ntr:envs.net> Yes, but splitting it in 2 or 3 locations already helps a *lot*

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> but i mean, a very few % of people benefit from such measures

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<i​ntr:envs.net> tiny trade off for a much more secure solution

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> you can be more safe with 1 very secure location than with 2 or 3 poor locations

<i​ntr:envs.net> and even more safe with 2 very secure locations

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Lastpass says hi

<i​ntr:envs.net> Security keys aren't all that inconvenient and don't get in the way that much, especially once you're used to them

<i​ntr:envs.net> some of them you can leave in your device with a lanyard for the entire day, and only store away when you're not home or something

<i​ntr:envs.net> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…a2951b6eb6577f431721235340435390464

<i​ntr:envs.net> sure it takes up a USB slot but it doesn't stick out any more than a bluetooth dongle

question: what's the point of using an open source hardware key if you still can't compile your own copy into the hardware? :|

sounds about as secure as yubi (unless you actually can somehow)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Code review

of what? their code on github or the code on the hw itself?

<i​ntr:envs.net> afaik you can buy dev versions that will accept unsigned firmware, but yeah

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> good question, i have the same doubt, i don't think you can flash the hardware keys yourself

<i​ntr:envs.net> one reason it's more secure is that nitrokey actually accepts firmware upgrades

<i​ntr:envs.net> allowing just any firmware to be loaded on the device may cause it to get bricked or load malicious firmware that could reveal secrets, etc

<i​ntr:envs.net> that's just my theory tho

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> so what are the best hardware keys around atm?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> docs.solokeys.dev/building

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> perhaps i should get myself one.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Tbh compatibility wise yubikey, opensource solokey

<i​ntr:envs.net> Solokey, Nitrokey

<i​ntr:envs.net> If you're in the US solokeys are the easiest to get

<i​ntr:envs.net> if you're EU, Nitrokeys

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> what about onlykey

<i​ntr:envs.net> don't know much about them

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I dont think solo key works with keepassxc and challenge response

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I’ve seen that name somewhere

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> aight thanks

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> i'll make sure to get the purism key /s

<i​ntr:envs.net> yeah only the beefy yubikeys and the nitrokey 3 work with it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Thing that shits me with yubikey is the ends arent protected

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Asif it will survive

ends?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Where you plug it in, usb ends

<i​ntr:envs.net> The usb connector on the yubikey is non-standard and kinda sucky

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeah i have two fips ones.i got them when yubikey had that special on.

<i​ntr:envs.net> prone to break

<i​ntr:envs.net> I only have nitrokeys myself

<i​ntr:envs.net> my only complaint is the plastic can feel a bit cheap, but they're more durable than they look

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Actually wasnt there an opensource hardware key getting done?

<i​ntr:envs.net> I only know about the Tillitis key

oh lol i thought it was just normal usb

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Need #monero-privsec

<i​ntr:envs.net> true ^

<c​trej:matrix.org> That would be unironically very helpful dan

yes and we need to lock in there the guy that had an online windows pc handling sensitive moneros

people underestimate just how spywarey that shit is

the wallet on the online windows pc wasn't the wallet that was drained so think again

maybe fluffypony can save us the long posts and just resign (for completely unrelated, personal reasons, of course)

that's not the point; i would say the same without the heist if i found out windows was being used like that at the top level of a privacy project

microsoft doesn't need ur money

bill gates wouldn't bend over to pick up 10k xmr off the ground

this bears repeating. if luigi was the source of the "hack" (cough-cough) the hot wallet would've been drained too.

well I mean if I wanted to avoid looking guilty maybe I'd leave the smaller wallet

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> luigi had chances to get much much more in monero than what this hack was worth in the past

not accusing just, thinking through the reasoning

<c​harutocafe:matrix.org> luigi had chances in the past to get much much more in monero than what this hack was worth

I'd say that's a point of evidence against it being him, though who's to say his personal situation / finances haven't changed since then

whereas the change in personal situation / circumstances for fluffypony is pretty obvious

<k​inghat:matrix.org> you cant go by timing of available funds to take. you have no knowledge of a thiefs life circumstances.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We have zero clue how this incident happened either being hacked or exitscam

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Its just speculation at this point

geonic: I stepped down in 2019, and then I had further access removed in 2021 when I was arrested. There are some historical elements that remain, and this post seeks to rectify that in ways that my “resigning” will not.

(Stepped down as maintainer I mean)

If it’s not obvious, I do not want to be part of these responsibilities at all, but there needs to be someone to hand this stuff over to

And further centralising this stuff by continuing with the status quo seems unwise, don’t you agree?

Anyway it’s my bed time here, got an early morning tomorrow - I appreciate your continued input on this, hopefully you’ll step up and volunteer on one or more of these workgroups

Love your energy and willingness!

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Monero transition team

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Does that mean we have to pay mr fluffy a redundancy ???

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i nominate myself for being wrapped in cottonwool and letting someone else fix it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Then you can blame the previous government i mean management for the next 4 yrs

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> boog900 vostoemisio jberman geonic dangerousfreedom do we have IRC accounts to DM luigi1111 to confirm request payout/confirm addresses? if so please do this asap

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I hope those address are required to be signed by PGP.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> If you are doing the communication over IRC.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Hmm imagine using e2ee

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> On matrix

<i​ntr:envs.net> what about it?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> The irc dm

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> boog900's is pgp signed, vostoemisio not

<i​ntr:envs.net> oh right, I misread

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> some of the others have been paid previously - i assume if the same address is re-used then no further questions required

<b​oog900:monero.social> my address is signed on GitLab is that enough? or should I still message

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Send too policia

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> yes message him personally over IRC , ello m8 im boog heres me update link and my pgp key is here thanks

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> EHLO

<b​oog900:monero.social> sure : )

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> mod needed at matrix.to/#/#xmrmine:matrix.org

again ??

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Please hold the line, we are currently busy

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> You are number 2 in the queue

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Sneedlewoods in progress

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> thank you

what makes it easy for me is this series of events: 1. post update on original merge request; 2. add some chars of desired address to message; 3. DM me link to update, milestone(s) requested, and full address

if you have been paid previously and want the same address, skip 2

<r​ucknium:monero.social> xmrack: What is the resolution of this chart? Number of 12-out transactions per block?

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> yes

<r​ucknium:monero.social> xmrack: This doesn't make sense as a user pattern, right? PocketChange was released widely on June 5th, too. github.com/m2049r/xmrwallet/releases/tag/v3.3.7

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> hmmm good point

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/smmPawsGUSpLpHpeXwpnyJoL

<a​ck-j:matrix.org> This is the data I collected

<r​ucknium:monero.social> If you are doing the communication over IRC. <= gitlab is authoritative, since that account made the proposal in the first place (unless extenuating circumstances).

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes, I agree. gitlab comment with partial address that is long enough to prevent "vanity address" brute forcing + IRC DMs is enough.

never had someone try to fake and claim something that didn't belong to them. Don't start now, trolls.

<e​scapethe3ra:matrix.org> luigi1111w please check pm's

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Weblate instance is down translate.getmonero.org

escapethe3ra did you DM me on matrix? I don't see anything on irc

<h​bs:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/hfMmPNqqqhoVPgEUDUPdAQlO

<h​bs:matrix.org> > i assume it didnt work -> was audited -> considered experimental -> 200iq implemented it into their own projects and the cli remained untouched

<h​bs:matrix.org> Because no one deserves to suffer I've written a short HOWTO with my latest findings.

<e​scapethe3ra:matrix.org> messaged luigi1111 & luigi1111w

hmm it didn't work then

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> irc <-> matrix dm doesntwork

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if its re ccs, dm plowsof

<e​scapethe3ra:matrix.org> used to work^

"performance improvements"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> m-relay bridge doesnt

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And plowsof is the ccs coordinator

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ccs ceo now

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> temporarily use GF2 wallet to receive CCS donations and get this show back on the road?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> just need the priv view key, and a statement from the super administrators and we're raising funds by tuesday , while we get our sh*t together