<a​js_:matrix.org> plowsof: luigi1111 repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-front/-/merge_requests/37

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MAGIC Monero Fund - links to website where

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Bounties - ""

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MoneroKon Association - single ccs, trying to bypass ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monerujo Funding - l m f a o :

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The Monero ATM Project - funded and would be bypassing ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Community Art Fund - bypassing

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> P2Pool - l m f a o

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> PiNode-XMR - roflmao,

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monerica - 💀 why is this even here

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MAGIC Monero Fund

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Bounties

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> links bothto website where other fundraisers (plural) can be found

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MAGIC Monero Fund

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Bounties

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Both link to website where other fundraisers (plural) can be found (these 2 are ok)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So does Monerica, if you can find it.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monerica is a directory

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I don't know what it is. I can't read that mess.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yellowpages

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> A phone book

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> What ever. Driving potential sponsors away from CCS is a shitty idea.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bro

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> None of those are vcs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Are ya reading?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats a bunch of projects that would be bypassing ccs, but using cca website to get fake credibility

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ccs isnt a directory for donation addresses

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That's my point. Listing alternative/competing funding options is not a good idea.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ahhh so you ARE reading. (i never doubted you for even 1 second) :D

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I was starting to doubt your reading comprehension 😛

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> No jet fund?

<a​js_:matrix.org> why is it a bad idea to give donors alternative funding options?

<a​js_:matrix.org> shouldn't we be for decentralization?

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Just because Monero is a decentralized crypto, doesn't mean that absolutely every single nut and bolt of infrastructure managing the project has to be decentralized too

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> In the spirit of decentralization, have you considered using $DINE? I hear it's the shit.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> * $DINO :)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ajs_: What is the purpose of the CCS?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> To get hacked 😬

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Toon soon?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Too soon?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Nah, that's just the wallet(s)

<a​js_:matrix.org> TrasherDK when viewed in the historic perspective, the CCS (used to be "FFS") was used to fund devs/projects with Core acting as a trusted escrow agent in a time when there was no multisig or projects with an established track record

<a​js_:matrix.org> it was there when the Monero project was relatively small

<a​js_:matrix.org> and Core was more involved

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Have the current CCS, pre hack, proven to be an effective source of funding for multiple devs and projects?

<a​js_:matrix.org> some project think not

<a​js_:matrix.org> and some have argued it was a broken process before the hack

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> The ones that didn't gey funded, yes :)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> "get funded"

<a​js_:matrix.org> Monerujo for an example went solo because the gatekeeping that went on CCS proposals had gotten bogged down by endless decisions and bureaucracy

<a​js_:matrix.org> cryptographers have left Monero altogether out of frustration with funding options

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So, the CCS model is not for everyone. Some need a regular paycheck from a registered company, then CCS ain't it. Some a happy being anon devs, getting paid for thair work, CCS covers those.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> they were also kinda funding their own for-profit app

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I couldn't remember what was up with the Monerujo thingy, but the for-profit rings a bell.

<a​js_:matrix.org> right, CCS one model, but we ought to highlight there are other options

<a​js_:matrix.org> since CCS is promoted by the Monero community on reddit and "official' website, it has more eyes on it

<a​js_:matrix.org> by linking to other funding options, it is an indication the CCS is not "the" canon option

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Well, it's the official community funding thing. Those others are not.

<a​js_:matrix.org> should it be though?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Yes.

<a​js_:matrix.org> why?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> It has proven to be an effective source of funding for multiple devs and projects 😎

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> are we going in circles now?

<a​js_:matrix.org> "effectiveness" is a contentious proposition

<a​js_:matrix.org> let's see what others think

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Sure, let's. Anyone?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i would have said its good at weeding out non-critical proposals but then we got movie ccs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> since that went through on the basis "let people decide if they want to donate or not, nobody is forcing them" that can be applied to literally everything else

<a​js_:matrix.org> and don't forget telsa

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i thought tesla was a joke made by core

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> We also got that bitcoin Bluetooth monero net thingy 🤣

<a​js_:matrix.org> kovri money pit, Chinese forum scam

The beatings will continue until we accept that the CCS is great

Only core / seraphis devs have funding secured(tm) because of all these complaints. Everyone else including plowsof can think about their wrong doings until [solution]

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i am so happy i never made a serious ccs proposal

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i can shit on it all day

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Well. I put my vote in. Have CCS continue as before, with some beefed up OpSec, and heated discussions around proposals. Gotta love that drama 😄

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> It will just need to upgrade to win 11

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> stupid ass win 11

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it just blocked an app i wanted to start

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but without any of the hidden run anyways buttons

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> so i actually couldnt start it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> only way was through admin console

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I'll have to get a Win 11 laptop soon, and am not looking forward to that experience.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I have a feeling, most of the software I run, won't run on win-11.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the most annoying part is definitely that right click doesnt show all the option anymore

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> instead they shoved stuff behind a second click

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Someone please make a win 8 skin 😉

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/kFstMbFHFYrzfwbqcgZAhdbI

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> she looks smug like that dog

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/GlQpsvxDuLCyLgEFpnPltvRl

<a​js_:matrix.org> cryptographers have left Monero altogether out of frustration with funding options <<>> this was just one problem for them among others

also I am sure that chinese forum and kovri proposals were supported by the community which is why they went to funding, would funding not be requested for these on other platforms?

some in the community were so hungry for marketing that they wanted and funded the chinese forum, smfh

but it's decentralized, you can go start your own funding with monero name

I see people mention monerujo funding as example, it was again almost exclusively funded by one person

ccs funding is best possible monero funding atm with rules, history, and those whales supporting the monero development wants the ccs as it was

with wallet fixed

how fix wallet

as I see bF is only bothered about sending payment too often

is he collect donations in GF2

and someone else is sending XMR to plowsof who is sending to devs then

and someone reaching settlement with bF once monthly or each two months

Plowsof revealed his 4 year plan (that ends in taking the ccs wallet balance and vanishing)

MRL will discuss how to fix multisig soon

<s​iren:kernal.eu> We should be, especially when it comes to funding. After the stupid fucking incident you'd think this would be clear to the people but no, some people have the cult cryptobro mindset.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> And FYI the ATM project isn't funded. Last round was funded successfully. You would know if we were listed on CCS.

slower alternative is to help tobtoht add multi-sig fast-track into feather wallet

so we get real world testing of it and find bugs that way

multisig needs security proofs to be considered close to 100% secure

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I don't understand why this keeps getting mentioned here? Who are these devs? Why does it matter? The reality is that you were robbed 2,675.73 XMR because of this system. "B-but the devs are salty and throwing shit at CCS for no reason", yeah right.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> How is the robbery related to the discussion?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I was responding to "some devs are not happy with the current CCS".

<s​iren:kernal.eu> It's proof that the system is shit

<s​iren:kernal.eu> You're arguing that it's not and people are complaining because they're oh so salty

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Nah, it only proves good OpSec is required for larger amounts.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Do you understand how hard that is to achieve?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> well, I do run a few servers 😆

<s​iren:kernal.eu> CCS is not only a shit system, but it's a system that discourages people from donating to other projects that are not listed on CCS. Perfect for rug pulling.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So let's all join the monero foundation, when you are ready.

which other funding options have integrity ?

transparency

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Certainly not CCS since 2,675.73 XMR is lost

<s​iren:kernal.eu> People are safer and better off supporting devs directly

Devs will be just lazy, why would they complete the task?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Let the donors choose how to support the devs, by listing these projects ^

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> You only have an opinion, CCS has a record.

Donors have link already

<s​iren:kernal.eu> MajesticBank: donations are not a hard to cancel scam subscription. If devs don't deliver you don't donate.

why listing it bro

You are free to promote those links

it's decentralized

you might as well start getmonero clone

<s​iren:kernal.eu> So more eyes see it

Bro go shoot in the streets

so more ears hear it

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I myself already reach funding goals for my projects off the CCS. But having external funding pages listed would be beneficial for monero events and other community projects.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Nobody can deny that.

as I said ccs have integrity, some of those projects don't

might as well be hand of NSA

why would ccs be involved in promoting NSA fund

<s​iren:kernal.eu> "CCS has integrity" is your opinion on this matter

surely, this is just a discussion and means probably nothing

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Some of these projects are well known and more trusted than the scam shit that was listed on ccs

since it's obvious in this room you can say w/e you want

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> CCS has a long record of success, nobody can deny that.

and insult whoever you want

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Funny that you feel insulted

not talking about this particular interaction

community was community maybe 2-3 years ago

now everyone checking their end, coming to consensus decision at this point

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> For sure, Monerujo is technically for profit because we get fee sharing revenue from exchanges in the app. Believe me that if that were enough money to cover development we wouldn't have asked for funding.

when someone working with another fund or don't want oversight about funds they receive

makerdao have voting token

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the features we got were pretty cool

there must be some mechanism, because you can now just print 'community members'

<s​iren:kernal.eu> There should have been an exception made for Monerujo. Since CCS policies were broken before by funding non-free media etc.

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I agree. I think it's the best solution we have managed to develop so far, and works great in the majority of cases.

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> And the only reason it might look like it didn't work for some people is because for very personal reasons we had some months of very little spare time, so time was spent keeping the app working fine, instead of adding new features.

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I like about the monerujo funding approach that it's also useful for us to gauge interest on specific features, prioritize, etc

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> We don't get many instances of genuine feedback, since it's all so private and not tracked

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I wish we can continue with the tradition of the CCS, but definitely with better funds security for sure

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> hows that going? Wen sidekick? Wen not halfassed pocketchange?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Right. Magic and bounties, even perhaps kuno.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> not "random proposas 1, 4 and 9"

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> And tweak it to make it even better and transparent

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Is this sarcasm?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > why?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cuz of ppl like msvb

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > > <@ajs_:matrix.org> "effectiveness" is a contentious proposition

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > i would have said its good at weeding out non-critical proposals but then we got movie ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 😁

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > > <@anhdres:matrix.org> For sure, Monerujo is technically for profit because we get fee sharing revenue from exchanges in the app. Believe me that if that were enough money to cover development we wouldn't have asked for funding.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > There should have been an exception made for Monerujo. Since CCS policies were broken before by funding non-free media etc.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> There was an exception made for geonic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont see why monerujo cant use ccs - anhdres does

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (current "monero garden" ccs)

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Gatekeeping, bureaucracy and the other reasons ajs mentioned. The same reason why poor merchants have to hack around btc payserver today.

Why not just have the CCS as a community vetted/approved list of projects that people can, or should, donate to. The destination address for the donation can go anywhere. If the proposer bails, then they arent allowed again onto the CCS "pre-approved list"..

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What project do we NOT list?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> One of the main reasons imo why the monero ecosystem sucks for merchants.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or should ccs just be a directory for self funded options

<s​iren:kernal.eu> There can be a directory of this and also the good ol classic centralized scam wallet

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Possible to have both at the same time. Just don't allow CCS projects to self fund at the same time.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Well, how do you "get your prohext listed">

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Opening a pr on getmonero?

Could even have long time devs with profile, current focus, status of work, expected burn rate, and a view key of their wallet balance (that they control). When wallet gets low, the entry goes orange or red or something.

Monerica was rejected from its getmonero listing attempt

<s​iren:kernal.eu> We can vote on it here or yeah pr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats even harder than gettinf approved for ccs

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Who said Monerujo can't use the CCS? We decided it was better to try to do it ourselves, but nobody banned us from the CCS or anything like that

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It seemed to be implied that monerujo HAD to use another option

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Hmm how so? It's just a listing - similar to how exchanges and services are listed on getmonero.org

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Im pointint out that, no, "for profit" isnt a blocker

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, and wallets.

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Halfassed? I don't see why not consider a full ass as this point

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Takes foreevvvvver to get approved

we had lots of issues with services listed on getmonero.org scamming others

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> That may actually work

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > > <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> hows that going? Wen sidekick? Wen not halfassed pocketchange?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > Halfassed? I don't see why not consider a full ass as this point

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Well, since youre not in ccs, its nobodies job to ask you for updates

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats what ccs is already! Lmao

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Except removing escrow and milestones

Monericas PR to -site monero-project/monero-site #2117

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Then that's not what the ccs is already

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Anhdres. Are you sayibf ccs is not a community vetted list of proposals?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol.?

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Yes

Plowsof resign immediately

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I'm saying that what midipoet said is not the way that the ccs works, since the escrow part is an important part of the ccs system

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I made that distinction, anghres.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "Except removing escrow and milestones"

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> Then all good Mr. Ofrn

Yeah, it essentially removes the escrow and keeps the gatekeeping nature of the directory. You can also keep milestones, just have them associated with sub-adresses/different wallets, and update the directory when milestones are achieved to thr satisfaction of the community/CCS coordinator. If milestones aren't achieved, remove donation address/entry

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Different subaddresses - escrow lolz

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Different wallets = escrow

The use of different wallets is so the CCS can show balances and try to keep track of donations to date

the proposer can maintain control of the wallet

So it wouldn't be escrow

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> so how do you _not_ the incomplete milestone?

In English please?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not pay*

I assume the idea is that the next milestone only gets funded after the first is finished

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> How do you avoid a scam proposer from collecting without working

sounds like a nightmare

selsta: yeah. Could easily be a pain in the ass

But it's just an idea

the CCS already has quite an overhead for devs who would prefer to just focus on working on monero itself

hopefully future solutions don't increase this overhead even more

ofrnxmr: you can't really, so perhaps you would need a maximum milestone value/time. though this risk may ensure we weed out proposals better

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So, not only are you asking peps to part with their XMR, they also need to keep taps on the projects they sponsor, making sure the projects keep their promises, revoking support if they don't. Sounds like a bitch to me.

Also, i guess a proposer can request an escrow service, if they prefer.

Kayabas FCMP is easier because its retroactive / no escrow required. Has a timelimit of 2 months to raise funds. This could be linked on the FR page (if it has a btcpay/kuno or similar fundraiser)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> CCS already has to deal with bad merged proposers who try to collect unearned funds

trasherdk: they don't need to keep an eye. They donate in the first milestone. If the first isn't completed the proposal gets removed

So they only lose what they donate to MS1

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats asinine

Sadly building the actual ccs is a bit tricky (dependencies issues) we need a docker wizard to have a look at it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lets just do milestone 1 charities

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (Sarcasm)

selsta: to be honest long time devs could have longer milestones. Easily three months. You dont get a new three month listing if you don't do the work for the first.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The only way i could see posting personal projects, is to retrofund them. But at that point we can use ccs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Midipoet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> to be honest, people dont usually go 3 months without pay 💀

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (Thats why devs get dayjobs)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> > <m​idipoet> So they only lose what they donate to MS1

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> They shouldn't risk loosing anything in the first place.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Donors have lost many times with the CCS. Many projects were never completed. In theory the money from the unfinished CCS proposals would be available for other projects. In practice, the money was stolen.

ofrnxmr: they won't have to go three months without pay. They'll be able to access funds as soon as they are donated, as they maintain control of the wallet.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It is probably not possible to create an efficient system that always works when the problem it is full of asymmetric information problems and collective action problems.

Admittedly, it's riskier though as they are never certain that the complete proposal will get funded

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> After 3 months of work, retro

We repurposed some funds for other projects :( even found the jet fund, this is too sad to talk about still

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> that needs to be looked over, after the fact

<4​rkal:monero.social> Quick question. Why aren't all ccs proposals accepted (given that they are not complete rip offs). There would be an expiration date on each proposal and if the end result is not achieved (withing the timeframe) the ccs will be able to refund donors

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2700 xmr gone

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2000 of that was xmr that was from failed proposals

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 4rkal: "refund donors" lol

Ref

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> On what planet do donations get refunded

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not a retail purchase

<4​rkal:monero.social> If the CCS is expired

<4​rkal:monero.social> The funds can be returned

It would be best that after some inactivity the funds get sent to some dedicated wallet where it gets re-invested on new proposals.

We are lucky to get devs payouts ontime

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Then donors shoull come forward and prove their donations

Try paying out 100 donors

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And then we repay 20-100 ppl?

<4​rkal:monero.social> Yeah

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ty plow. Lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Loo 4rkal

just pay me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Bounties is annoying enough

<4​rkal:monero.social> I know it's very hard for you to send txs for whatever reason but you could try

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lets go multisig, and pay 100 ppl

<4​rkal:monero.social> Could even automate it? Idk

lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> That sounds safe

<4​rkal:monero.social> Move expired funds to hot wallet then distribute

<4​rkal:monero.social> Automatically

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Automate ccs spend keys. Yolo

don't forget to "adopt a dev"™

we have several good ones to choose from

<r​ucknium:monero.social> There was a version of Seraphis txs that could "auto-refund" donations if a goal amount was not achieved. It would not auto-refund after the goal amount was achieved, i.e. if the proposer did not deliver what was promised. But Seraphis development went for another tx version.

rucknium: For Magic, are donations to specific proposals converted to USD as soon as they get received? If yes, what is used for that?

A la flipstarter (auto refunds). A shame seraphis didnt include it

<r​ucknium:monero.social> selsta: Good question. The MAGIC Monero Fund (MMF) committee discussed this in our meeting less than 24 hours ago. The MAGIC Board, which is "the boss", has decided to hold assets in USD instead of allowing us to also hold cryptocurrency assets. I think there was a big administrative cost to do accounting with cryptocurrency.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The MMF committee doesn't necessarily support that decision, but the board is the boss. In the near future (within 1 month I think), the process will be that donated XMR is sent to a centralized exchange, converted to USD, then invested in a SIPC-insured USD money market account.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The MMF can still pay workers in cryptocurrency if they want.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> sgp can add details if he wants

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Is anyone from Monero interested in attending 37C3?

Msvb ^

Where is 37C3 located?

I'm asking because I don't even understand how I would do taxes with self funding... It means I would have to keep track of each indiviudal small donation, check how the price changed between in between the time I received it and I sold it, etc. It would singifincatly increase the amount of work necessary for taxes to the point where it barely makes sense for a part time CCS.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> apparently hamburg

Selsta doesnt have to worry about anything btw

trasherdk: if proposers want to afford the community a greater level of trust/accountability, they can nominate an escrow wallet. We could colour these listings green or blue or something

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I thought the KYC process for MAGIC workers could only be a downside, but you can see a small upside because IIRC MAGIC gives tax paperwork to you and even files it to the government for you :)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yall want to turn the ccs into kuno.anne.media or what

<r​ucknium:monero.social> But in general I would not want a large number of Monero devs to be KYCed.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> monerobull: Yeah, pretty much. Trust, don't verify.

selsta: fair point on the taxes. That would be a pain in the ass for many small donations

Scrap the idea

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we can see how well selffunding works for large projects

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> (that arent as known as monerujo)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/ffRRMzTpTSWrENcQViTWnldn

midipoet: that's exactly why I don't want to do self funding and would prefer an escrow system similar to how it existed

what about we have a specific "trusted dev" listing, escrowed by Core (or someone). Devs can "draw down" from it, as they require, as long as it complies with their pre-agreed burn rate, and projected milestones for the period

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> whats the point in that

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> just ads a whole lot of management work

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we barely managed to get ccs proposals merged and paid out with the old setup

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no way "draw down as they require" would work out well

monerobull: means devs dont need to create listings/proposals in perpetuity. Just milestones for the period.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ah ok

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah i thought its weird that our main devs doing most of the work and have been at it for years have to do proposals every 3 months

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Probably m​idipoet's idea is what some people think they are doing when they donate to the General Fund :P

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah i always thought its weird that our main devs doing most of the work and have been at it for years have to do proposals every 3 months

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Devs telling what they are planning spending their time on every 3 months seems like a good idea.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Plowsof sent you a dm on Matrix

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> And yes it's in hamburg

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> At present my plan is to attend 37c3 and both MC and do Monero presentations as I did on previous years.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> do we do paid vacation again /s

<a​js_:matrix.org> Diego Salazar: will there be a monero assembly?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> There's the CDC again, and a stage like last time. If we can get some XMR people there then I don't see why not.

Devs have 3 month CCSs because there is a rule limiting proposals to 3 months that was put there to mitigate issues that had happened with longer timeframe CCSs

Meanwhile Doug's CCS was for 6 months so.....

6 months CCS have the risk that price signifincatly drops in the meantime, especially in a bear market it's risky

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I haven't seen a bigger and cooler conference for Monero to be a part of, I hope you can go and Monero can be a regular presence there

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Monero and bitcoin are the only cryptocurrencies allowed to have an official presence there

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Gotta take advantage of that

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> just like in Defcon, if i'm not wrong. right?

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I agree in both cases, very special places and good cultural relevance for Monero in those conferences

<a​js_:matrix.org> not so much for Defcon anymore

<a​js_:matrix.org> we've got relegated to a merch table at Defcon

<a​nhdres:matrix.org> I know, but it used to be the case. Sad news if you ask me

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Donors have lost many times with the CCS. Many projects were never completed. In theory the money from the unfinished CCS proposals would be available for other projects. In practice, the money was stolen. <= a significant amount went to genfund, but carrying a balance is definitely negative (for CCS, for genfund it's arguable)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2 words

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> jet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> fund

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> maybe people dont understand what thebjet fund is, ans just ignore it because they think its a joke?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Rucknium described the jet fund. Luigi seems oblivious, as the jet fund is separate from GF and is in opposition to sending stale ccs to GF

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Again, 2000/2700 xmr that was stolen, was stolen FROM ccs, but the money shoukd have been "jet funded" a long time ago

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I estimate that, at most, 50% of the stolen xmr was claimable. The rest should not have been in the ccs wallet, or generalfund. It should have been in the jet fund to do what rucknium just described

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "donors have lost many times with the ccs" <<- yes, paying scammers is hilarious.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Referring to mj and his tirade (and not work) that got him free moneros

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No work = Jet. Fund.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why is it cslled the jet fund? Bcuz if you planned to scam ccs, youre just going to help us fund real development.

yes the process of dealing with the jet fund was in progress but we were too late :(

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Soon™️ bit us in the ass

you can send to me for safe keeping

have we considered the theory that the retroactive proposal made the CCS self-implode

This is entirely possible

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> My theory is more plausible

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Which one?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> FCMP isnt finished

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And its not been moved to funding yet either

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Maybe its shitty pedestrians who throw stones at contributors like kaya, that caused a boating accident

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> That you hack the jet , so geonic wouldnt get paid..