<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Context (i think): the bridge being down was supposed to be temporary, so datahorder did m-relay as a shirt term solution.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> this news doesnt change m-relay, but it means "termporary" became "permanant".

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> correct me if im wrong DataHoarder @datahoarder:monero.social:

yes

that is what I mean, worth exploring running other tools that align better with what was intended interaction wise

so far the one people were accustomed to was the matrix bridge service, which you can run on your own, but then you take message loss as a feature

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Temporary permanent

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Is this just with libre.chat?

correct, but others care less about the privacy issues/packet loss

the issues on the EMS bridge exist on the other networks

Imagine rolling IRC-only back, no more Matrix, bridges or anything alike. The good ole days.

See: nitter.unixfox.eu/grapheneos/status/1726825738660360332

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeah i argued with Daniel M going to discord

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And i didnt get banned which is weird

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Try harder

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Always

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> I am hearing reports monero suffered a network attack in sep

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> is this true?

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> ?

a video titled is it true? about a supposed monero attack

seemed like an appropriate response

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> That's funny: `It has severely harmed the GrapheneOS project, hindering our ability to build a community.`

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Didn't those guys block everyone, and their mothers, on twitter?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Basically he whinged and no one listen

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Whinged to matrix devs

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> violent rhetoric: Monero is always under attack 😎

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Monero HA

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> but did monero get breached?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Wallet or monero?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cause the jetfund 🛫

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> network

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Did anyone check ofrnxmr's socials for holiday pictures from Bahamas, supporting the theory, put forward by Dan?

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> offrn?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Ah, a newb 😆

no network attack

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> who is offrn

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> who knows.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Uno

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> bro just say it

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Around here, we don't doxx peeps, not even ofrnxmr 😅

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> yall talkin about the bahamas

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> why

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> LOL, that was a while back. You had to be around for that.

the bahamas suck

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> are there any plans for monero to adopt a ZKP "mixer" with nullifiers etc?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> MEEE

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <n​ioc> the bahamas suck

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah. Just got back. 6/10

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > are there any plans for monero to adopt a ZKP "mixer" with nullifiers etc?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Mixer?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> right. No network attack.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> just a boating accident.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I'd be surprised about the lack of bad news about it, but then again i assume most news outlets have a "monero" gag order

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> similar to how torando or zcash work.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I hoped they would run a huge smear campaign against monero, but nope. Theyre still afraid to mention monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Tornado and zcash arent zimilar

ok boomer.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> One of these is a btc fork that can work 100% private like arrr

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> they use zkp snarks with nuliifiers to sever connection between input and output. even a break in the discrete log cannot reveal links.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> so, youre talking about full chain membership proofs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes monero plans to impl FCMP, but no, not a mixer

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> do you have a reference to the effort?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> FCMP are in progress

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sure. 1 sec

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats video ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> theres also

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> links in OP

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> does FCMP maintain the property that tornado has in regards to a discrete log break wherein such a break cannot compromise past privacy? currently with monero if the discrete log is broken in the future analysis will reveal far too much about the past.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> voidastro: The current Monero FCMP proposal is based on Curve Trees: usenix.org/system/files/usenixsecurity23-campanelli.pdf

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I don't know about forward secrecy specifically, but the paper does require the discrete log assumption for security.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Please provide clear citations that Tornado Cash and Zcash's Halo 2 have forward secrecy if discrete log is broken.

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> they have forward secrecy because they have the zero knowledge property. a dlp solver can forge proofs but cannot links inputs and outputs.

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> this is true of zk-snarks in general though.

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> in the case of tornado it's just that whats being proven is membership and nullifier construction

#monero-research-lounge maybe?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> For Zcash I think you need the transaction to be fully z address-to-z address (not t- to z- or z- to -t) and the z-address to not be known to the quantum adversary: forum.zcashcommunity.com/t/is-zcash-actually-quantum-private/40706

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I just skimmed this thread when I first saw it. I don't know much about it.

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> Hi guys I don't know if I'm in the correct channel for this but I purchased some vending machines very cheap and I am wanting to convert them to accept XMR and Dogecoin. I originally wanted to use the LNbits software to accept BTC on the lightning network but due to high transaction fees and how complicated it is to use LNbits I don't believe that is the best option for a vending machine.

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> I was planning on using a Raspberry pi to run the software to generate QR codes and an Arduino to control the stepper motors on the vending machine.

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> I was hoping someone here could point me in the right direction to start this project. I've been looking online for months and have not found anyone else who has done this or something similar to this so I'm struggling to get this off the ground.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Sounds interesting. staysilver: Best place to ask is #monero-community-dev:monero.social

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> staysilver: Take a look at atm.monero.is

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Join their Matrix room #atm:kernal.eu.

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> Thank you Rucknium!

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> rottenwheel This project actually isn't an ATM. I purchased two older snack vending machines for very cheap that still work I am wanting to convert to accept XMR and Doge. I plan to sell normal candy and snacks out of the machine but may do 3d printed items or whatever else people might want.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> staysilver: Understood. Thought an ATM project may have common interests with your forthcoming project. Sounds interesting, keen to see where it leads you.

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> Thank you I do appreciate it. Hopefully it doesn't lead to a dead end lol. I have some programming experience with python when I was in school but I have since forgotten most of what I learned. I am hoping to find someone who can consult me on which programming language might work best for this so I don't waste time learning a language that wont be beneficial to the project.

<s​taysilver:matrix.org> To be honest I very surprised no on else has done this yet.

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> Have you missed 25th's MoneroTopia?

<c​omradeblin:matrix.org> You can get a recap here: monero.town/post/1243680

<j​okeman203:hackliberty.org> from where

o​frnxmr: what do you suggest instead of luigi?

multisig should still be better than single if the parties are trusty, unless my understanding of the theoretical weaknesses is way off

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I thought it was just in efficient?

what % of multisig signers need to be hit by a bus before we lose the wallet?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> 2 i think

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> 3rd is bus driver

for 2 of 3

?

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Yes, you need 2 signatures. If you have 3 signers, you can "afford" to lose 1. If you lose 2, it's game over.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ok

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> So cat can drive over one person then

Cat is a proven killer so beware

we could use 2 of 5 so we wouldn't be so fearful of buses

dunno if it's a good idea otherwise

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Can it do that?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And gotta get 5 people to volunteer

known only to each other

2 of 4 ...... whatever

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ofrn alts?

2 of N means you only have to convince 1 person to split 2600xmr with and because we dont know who(s) signed the tx you can have plausible deniability and also say ooo123 dod it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Wasnt me

It cant be proven who colluded to steal , so the more signers means the more plausible deniability

24/25 multisig wallet?

10/25 could be good. Add me in! Still need 10 people that approve the stealing even if they get nothing in return

s/10/9/g

I promise to split it evenly of you collide with me

Oh my what typos, collude* if*

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Trust me bruh

just give Cat turkey and she will have no reason to steal

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Fancy

Do they really know the difference anyway. They just raid any chiken as long as it's not modified (spices, sauces....)

2/3 or maaybe 3/5 is all that makes sense really IMO. I think it will be quite cumbersome to use though especially if hot wallet is kept small like 1-2 months

Send 2600xmr to the hot wallet once a year

we could have a single sig hot wallet if it's actually kept small

imo

might require manual payouts for bigger stuff but so be it

I was planning on single sig hot wallet anyway. Too much bandwidth otherwise

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or split payments in 1 hot wallet for monero devs and other for projects

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> And jetfund as offline

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or split payments in 2 hot wallet for monero devs and other for projects

Hot wallet has been single sig for 6 or 7 years and has never had a breach.

Did you send the seed via pigeon carrier to any external parties for that wallet?

No

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> What about we put monero on a usb and do a “money drop”

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cloak and dagger style

If multisig wallets show who signed the tx we would know exactly who was compromised

They don't though

True :(

I mean the wallet would but not the transactions

Then a 1/2 multisig wallet could show who was compromised/did it

1/2 is a degenerate case

That's just seed sharing

At least in XMRs way

In a smart contract way you could tell ya

Yep (without knowing/proving that 'ot wasnt my key who did it')

Maybe a future upgrade/request for Seraphis/multisig - prove you wasn't part of the signing group

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Proof of not exiting

Single signhot wallet + the bulk in a 3/5 is sane.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Still need to improve opsec

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Otherwise same boat

There's just tradeoffs

A single singer can reasonably do offline signing even via qr codes. Hard doubt that will scale to multisig

500 xmr ish to be paid out every month though

Yes there's a lot of volume that reduces the convenience significantly

The 3/5 signers have to provide the service, free of charge for eternity

Aliases 6+ years old is a good start for the multisig group?

Yes another big tradeoff

Also old nicks have fallen off over time. Hard to tell if the 6 year old ones are closer to staying forever or dying

lol

nioc are you ok?

never better

how about NoodleDoodle ?

He's alive

hard to tell lol

Agreed he doesn't respond to me very often

Also there seems to be some pushback against hardware wallets. Which I agree they are less secure than offline computer both virtually and physically

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Well you only have ledger or trezor

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Just put an offline pc in a faraday cage

There is no physical protection for any single signer wallet if we know the exact balance being held

The trezor passphrase wont work neither will the offset phrase or a jumbled up seed... We know you have 2600 xmr where is it

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Arent you just protecting the signer?

correct very hard to protect against wrench attack

multiple signers only slight helpful if amount is large enough. You can go very deep in the rabbit hole thinking of scenarios.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Wrenches are expensive now

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Also if you have good opsec cant use a wrench if they cant find you.

well good opsec is basically: be anonymous

bob you cab still get wrenches for less than $5

*you can

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Asian metal yeah. One hit and it breaks?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Opsec is more security them anon

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> The trezor passphrase wont work neither will the offset phrase or a jumbled up seed... We know you have 2600 xmr where is it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I giggled

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (long day, catchup on backlog later)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> its not what you know, its what you can prove.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> bf doesnt seem to fear the wrench

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Wear chain mail

I can confirm that Cat claws go thru chainmail

it does help somewhat

only puncture vas ripping

well a bit of ripping but also less depth

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Opsec is more security them anon <= physical opsec against worthy adversary isn't much more

unless fully security detail on you + relevant family members

and even then