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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> I purpose we have a web cam stream on the offline pc!
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> If they cant find you where is the physical threat.
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Inge
nioc: next time, wear plate mail.
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m-relay
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m-relay
<pyromaniaco:matrix.org> I'm getting back to posting regularly, I've been working on some new art and texts, all thanks to Kuno's support. Thank you so much everyone and stay tuned 😉.
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m-relay
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m-relay
<pyromaniaco:matrix.org>
t.me/MoneroPropagandaBR
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m-relay
<4rkal:monero.social> Does tx extra still exist?
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m-relay
<4rkal:monero.social> Was it made smaller or completely removed?
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Lyza
it exists, there is a size limit in the relay rules, so large tx_extra doesn't generally get propagated by the peer to peer network, but it's not a consensus rule so a miner could theoretically still mine the transactions and the blocks would be valid
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 100kb consensus limit
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 1060bytes iirc if youre running updated versions
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m-relay
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m-relay
<monerobull:matrix.org> very good video on the new trezor safe 3 with monero support
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m-relay
<monerobull:matrix.org> the guy also has a 8% discount code which is nice
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> When installing the GUI wallet to Linux, what's the difference between installing a flatpack vs the tar.bx2 file? Does either of them do updates, like apps do in a package manager?
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_DOOM_
Is there any place I can get information on the mining process and how that contributes to concensus? Like when I make a transaction where does that go and how does that eventually end up on the blockchain?
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Hm?
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Blockchain 101?
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> You > send tx > to node > node > sends tx > to other nodes
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Miners > connect to nodes > miner asks nodes what transactions are there > miner mines > miner finds a solution > miner sends solution (new block) to node > node sends to other nodes
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m-relay
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> The flatpak is auto updated via flathub
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> google/chatgpt/bing/etc "should i run the flatpak or the binary"
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Flatpak and binary are two different ways of packaging and distributing software. Flatpak is a package manager that allows you to install and run applications in a sandboxed environment, which means that the application is isolated from the rest of your system. This can be useful if you want to run an application that has dependencies that conflict with other software on your syst<clipped message>
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> em. On the other hand, binary packages are pre-compiled packages that are installed directly on your system. They do not run in a sandboxed environment, so they have access to all the resources on your system.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Whether you should use Flatpak or binary depends on your specific needs. If you want to run an application that is not available in your distribution's repositories or if you need a newer version of an application, Flatpak can be a good option. Flatpak also allows you to run multiple versions of the same application at the same time, which can be useful for testing purposes. Howev<clipped message>
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> er, Flatpak packages can be larger than binary packages, and they may take longer to start up.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> If you prefer to use binary packages, you can install them directly from your distribution's repositories. Binary packages are generally smaller than Flatpak packages, and they may start up faster. However, they may not be as up-to-date as Flatpak packages, and they may not be available for all distributions.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> In summary, if you need to run an application that is not available in your distribution's repositories or if you need a newer version of an application, Flatpak can be a good option. If you prefer to use binary packages, you can install them directly from your distribution's repositories. Ultimately, the choice between Flatpak and binary depends on your specific needs and preferences..
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Source: Conversation with Bing, 11/30/2023
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (1) What's so good about flatpak? : r/linux - Reddit.
reddit.com/r/linux/comments/99naxl/whats_so_good_about_flatpak
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (2) Flatpak vs Snap vs native packaging - Linus Tech Tips.
linustechtips.com/topic/1370712-flatpak-vs-snap-vs-native-packaging
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (3) 5 Reasons to Use Flatpak to Install Software on Linux - MUO
makeuseof.com/reasons-use-flatpak-to-install-linux-software
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (4) Flatpak vs Snaps vs AppImage vs Packages - DEV Community
dev.to/bearlike/flatpak-vs-snaps-vs…nux-packaging-formats-compared-3nhl
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (5) Flatpak vs. Snap vs. AppImage | Side by Side Comparison - phoenixNAP.
phoenixnap.com/kb/flatpak-vs-snap-vs-appimage
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> (6) en.wikipedia.org.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatpak
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Rip irc
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> bing even finished with ".."
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> what a rude bot.
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Holy shit batman
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m-relay
<xmradar:nope.chat> I sent the new translation for kuno in swedish to be updated. Credits to vostoemisio for the translation.
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m-relay
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<quincunx55555:matrix.org> Thank you!
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Double rip irc 🥀
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> np
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> oh wait, nvm, m-relay doesnt see replies :)
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Also install flatseal for flatpak or uss overrides
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nioc
looks fine on irc
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nioc
here is some offtopic.............
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nioc
Inge: I was given a knife resistant glove which is basically a somewhat fine chainmail
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nioc
don't know if playing with Cat using plate mail will be any fun
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Does it work against evil maids
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nioc
.shrug
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> Cats*
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> Crazy cat lady
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> We can use nioc’s cats for multi sig?
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nioc
only have 1 as Cat likes it that way
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nioc
3 cats is a good number to have so also works for multisig
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m-relay
<voidastro:matrix.org> how is it possible for monero to have such absurdly low fees? will the fees increase over time?
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> What are uss overrides?
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> Sorry use* overrides
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> I guess I already have one of them since it installed and is now syncing. I'm guessing the sync process takes a while.
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m-relay
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<quincunx55555:matrix.org> Actually, my log shows an error, so maybe I'm not actually syncing.
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nioc
overview: as btc emissions will eventually go to zero, miners can only be compensated with fees. I imagine this has something to do with the block size being restricted
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nioc
monero will ofc keep the block reward as it is now = tail emssion
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nioc
if monero gets used more and blocks grow then fees actually can drop
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nioc
during the period of grow they can increase but once the block size is stable at a larger size then fees can be less
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> When I start the daemon, the first output in the log is:[11/30/23 12:03 PM] 2023-11-30 20:03:24.371 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.1-unknown)
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> Error: Couldn't connect to daemon: 127.0.0.1:18081
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nioc
raising/chnaging fees via a hardfork is always an option if there is some reason to do so
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> When I start the daemon, the first output in the log is: [11/30/23 12:03 PM\] 2023-11-30 20:03:24.371 I Monero 'Fluorine Fermi' (v0.18.3.1-unknown)
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m-relay
<quincunx55555:matrix.org> Error: Couldn't connect to daemon: 127.0.0.1:18081 is that a problem, or an error to ignore?
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Why do we have 12 digits
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Raising fees in xmr value kind of ignores adoption add seems to assume xmr will never be more than $2000
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sech1
Bigger adoption -> bigger blocks -> smaller fees
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sech1
Fees were raised to reduce spam transactions
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 0.0000xxxx0000 is the current fee
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> the last 6 zeros are pretty dusty
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> The fee per transction is not as low as it looks
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Fee per transaction is really not bad
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Probably cheaper than what VISA charger to merchants
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Especially if it go down with adoption
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> If price go up, adoption will to
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sech1
Fee is <1 cent now
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Cent in my local currency too, really, nothing
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> like half a cent or something
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nioc
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Why do we have 12 digits <<>> more is better
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nioc
future proof
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nioc
where 1 xmr = 10 million
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Let say we get massive adoption and flip BTC... Except, no block size limit... ummm, imagin... We could technically take over and the fees will just go down...
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Can only dream ;)
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Get the massive storage array ready!
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 0.00002950btc aka 2950 sats. Around $1.25
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> on the other hand, our fee is
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 0.000033000000xmr aka 33 micronero (or 33,000 nanonero... 33,000,000 piconero.. ).. about 0.5c.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 18m xmr
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 19m btc
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> In xmr and btc terms, our fee isnt proportionally "low". Its only low if you look at "cost" when priced in other assets
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nioc
ok then, I wanna pay more in fees :D
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> you want to pay dollars in fees?
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nioc
yes $30.66 please
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nioc
for 1 in 2 out
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Were already at something like 25kxmr = ~$1 tx fee.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> the fee in xmr decreases with volume.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> I wonder what the fee (in xmr) would be decreased to with a sustained 600k tx/day (btc's max throughput).
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Avg 840 tx/block assuming 1:2 tx @ 1.5-2kb/tx.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> thats ~1.5mb blocks. A 5x block size increase.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> the fee might be 0.05c right now, but even if its 66% lower (due to increase in volume), at 0.00001 xmr (assuming 38k, btc price) its still a 8x increase in fiat value from 5c to 38c to send a basic 1:2 transaction
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, you are right for that
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> would make the fee at 1.11$ if XMr where where BTC is right now.
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Still lower than when BTC is agitated, way lower.
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> But that's is without taking account of the adoption.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Of course USD isnt stable, so 38c in the future might only be worth half a cent lol.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> @nioc 2 steps.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 1. Split outputs into 0.001
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 2. Consolidate them and set it to "fastest"
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sech1
Fee gets lower quadratically, not linearly, so your math is incorrect
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Youll pay 30.66 or more :D (i think)
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sech1
It will get lower faster
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> My maths is guessing, i was wondering what it would be, not saying it WOULD be 0.00001 or 0.000001
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nioc
ofrn, I did specify 1 in 2 out
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nioc
$1000000 xmr
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> whoops, ofrn didnt read good
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Fastest is abt $1 usd / 0.006 xmr for 1 in 2 out
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 0.006124 is what im getting
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m-relay
<voidastro:matrix.org> how are the monero fees nearly nonexistant?
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Nearly all online payment processor charge more
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> All banks payment processor charge more
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> BTC charge a lot more
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> We are like the cheapest option :D
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m-relay
<voidastro:matrix.org> but why is that? is consensus not allowing miners to accept more?
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m-relay
<voidastro:matrix.org> yet there is no congestion so that wouldnt matter anyway..
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> To prevent spam and blockchain bloat
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> then all client should send default fee so all TX look the same
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m-relay
<voidastro:matrix.org> wouldnt this make spam cheaper? with the fee being one cent anyone can embed arbitrary data into a blockchain cheaply.
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sech1
Fee depends on transaction size
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Its not 1 c
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Its 0.004% of 1xmr
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> And yeah: what sech said.
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m-relay
<ofrnxmr:monero.social> the larger the tx, the higher thebfee