<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ypavtv97lx:

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ofrn relay

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> seems my account was suspended: reddit.com/user/So_F_What

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> but weirdly other comments are intact like on this post:

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/189w8m…lk_bans_btc_mixers_but_allow_monero

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> reddit is a septic tank anyway.

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> maybe coincidence but it was banned right after discussing /r/bitcoin censorship with another, he made a post on /r/cryptocurrency which was removed after about hour maybe by mods

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> i never linked to other subs or in anyway broke the rules

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> maybe coincidence but it was suspended right after discussing /r/bitcoin censorship with another, he made a post on /r/cryptocurrency which was removed after about hour maybe by mods

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> maybe coincidence but it was suspended right after discussing /r/bitcoin censorship with another user, he made a post on /r/cryptocurrency which was removed after about hour maybe by mods

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> 👆

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> yep already added to bookmarks ;)

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> anyway, just wanted to report this weird behavior as I wouldn't mind reddit account to be suspended but deleting targeted comments is really weird and seems some moderator, maybe even global reddit moderator has something personal to Monero.

<y​pavtv97lx:matrix.org> cheers.

shadowbanning happens a lot on that godforsaken platform

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> Hey fam, can anyone tell me whether there are any exchanges that offer automatic buys? Trying to start dollar cost averaging some cryptos including xmr. Could pay for it with USD or LTC preferably. wort wort wort

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Like DCA?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kucoin has bots

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol. Yeah, dca. (read the whole msg first, ofrn)

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> Lol

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> Yeah dca

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> Im us based btw

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Havent used kucoin in quite some time, but they had bots before

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Way to DCA is to just yolo into it - says ofrnxmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The best way*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Unless youre dca out of other crypto. Then i guess you can run a rebalancing bot or something

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Markets

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> Yeah w all the etf stuff going on I want to spend 2024 aggressively DCA some crypto. Yolo

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> On kucoin? I am not familiar with using bots

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Markets to continue trade or pricetalk

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But yeah. Binance probably does too. Idk

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I yolo on localmonero

I have heard dca described as the lowest average

it's also the higheat average

it's the average

*the highest

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Be a man. 100x futures

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Even if youre not a man (no offence to non-men)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> YOLO but YODO too (unless youre niocs cat)

Cat yoloed by walking over the keyboard

why do the make the enter key so large?

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> The other night I went to reset my TradeOgre password but the link they sent me doesn't support HTTPS which I thought was sketchy, do yall still trust them or nah lol. I was reading some stuff on reddit about them recently. (Kindly tell me if discussions about exchanges belongs in the other room thnx)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Hello sir and/or madam and/or other. This "Community" Monero Community room is intended for community work related endeavors, organization etc.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero for general monero talk

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero Markets for price, exchanges, trading.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kindly,

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ofrnxmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The above question may be suitable for Monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And Monero Offtopic for when you dont know

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> to answer your question - id have a hard time believing that youd be sent an http link to reset your password.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> when i try to visit TO via http, it redirects to https after using cloudflare.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> tradeogre.com/how-to-buy/XMR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> tradeogre.com/how-to-buy/XMR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And id you did end up on an http site, i'd hope you didnt enter your password on it..

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> When I click the link in the pw reset email it says it doesnt support https. The pw reset link begins with "url9296.tradeogre.com/randomcharacters". The main site does HTTPS.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Begins with what now?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Pretty surr u left out the first 7-8 chars (http...)

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> No, I did not change my password because it felt weird. Also, and this may be completely unrelated, I searched "url9296" and the only result was a text file to a script that looks like it blocks ads or trackers and url9296 is included on it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Link in TO email starts with http or https?

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> url9296

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> url9296.tradeogre.com is what it clearly says.

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> Contacted their support, was pretty much told "that's weird"

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> And this is what shows up on google when you search "url9296" in quotes. I dont know a lot about pcs compared to probably most of yall but it def gave me a sketchy feel

<b​espinlonging1:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/mqPeOMWZPZZUGWwHCYXBCnWs

did people discuss the observer proposal? I think no progress bar is more or less a nonstarter, but that's not something that couldn't be changed.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nothing was discussed. Ofrnxmr said merge

yes sir, oscar

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i mean, when the question was poised, nobody replied

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plowsof said he had no objections (plowsof = nobody)

er, I mean the observer ccsv2 proposal on the newsletter, not an actual ccs proposal

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Link?

direct funding is not an option for me

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Almost 2hrs later n im still wondering why luigi is trolling

the act must go on

I will propose something tomorrow

or today rather

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Rarr

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Hows the investigation going

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Has the FAA found the jetfund?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its in building 7

we are playing phone tag rn but tomorrow

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Ok will tell nsa😬

They prolly stole it

<a​js_:matrix.org> l​uigi1111: is possible to have the progress bar visible with a wallet address and private view key for a direct funding proposal?

<a​js_:matrix.org> if possible, i think direct funding should be an option if it goes through the same vetting process as other escrowed proposals

<a​js_:matrix.org> when moved to "funding required", they can some type of tag indicating it is an external self-custody wallet

<a​js_:matrix.org> then it would be up to the donors to decide to donate or not

<a​js_:matrix.org> the "idea stage" would still serve the function of weeding out low quality proposals and community feedback for proposal improvement

Direct funding on the CCS is laughable after seeing 2600 accumulate from vetted but abandoned proposals

<a​js_:matrix.org> hopefully lesson was learned

<a​js_:matrix.org> it should have been broken up to smaller milestones

<a​js_:matrix.org> with concrete deliverables

<a​js_:matrix.org> it was even more laughable seeing over a half a mill stolen

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Have a payment wallet and jetfund wallet

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Basically 90% spam posts.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> monero.observer/cypherpunk-transmis…king-monero-ccs-cypherpunk-proposal

it's really ironic we're making literal money and struggle so much with coordinating holding and dispersing funds

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It's a theoretically hard problem. I'm not surprised it's difficult to solve.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> What if the escrow agent(s) were paid? We have almost 0 volunteers to escrow, but that could change if there was an actual incentive for it.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> (I know Core members are not supposed to be paid)

here's an insane take: people often use LocalMonero for escrow

they charge 1%

they probably already hold significantly more than the entire CCS wallet on their site

and have been long term dedicated to XMR. could work at least until we have damn multisig, Idk

then if you have individual funding you can do 2/3 multisig, where one key is the person getting paid, the other key is the person deciding milestones, and the third key resolves disputes between the first two

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Localmonero uses multisig

well what the fuck are they using then and why can't we use that, are they using experimental code in production?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes

ooph okay

spooky

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its not experimental compared to the old, vulnerable and "stable" multisig

yeah I just assumed their wallets were single sig

I keep wondering what other exchanges are doing too

somebody with clout might get a real response from Kraken about it

LocalMonero can start their own CCS where they earn 1%

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> maybe cz will talk to us in public now :P

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero #9050 example of a recently found multisig bug

<t​obtoht:monero.social> We can use experimental multisig for the CCS wallet, but need better wallet UX and an alternative for the MMS.

You're confident it's at least no worse than single sig I guess?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I believe in ooo

but yes UX for multisig is god awful I know, it's needed work since I first got interested in XMR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kaya did some reviews, vtnerd and koe as well, was audited, but ooo still was unsatisfied

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> High standards, that nym

CCS aside usable multisig is probably the single biggest thing we could do for XMR adoption right now

tobtoht gets it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Don't forget Jeffro ❤️

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> **Voter applications and committee candidate announcements are now available for the MAGIC Monero Fund committee.**

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> With the Monero CCS incident, now is a very important time to focus on the MAGIC Monero Fund.

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> If you are keeping up-to-date with the Monero ecosystem, please apply to be a voter, and if you have the time, please consider running to the committee member positions.

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> **Apply**: magicgrants.org/Monero-Fund-2024-Election

<s​gp:magicgrants.org> **Tax-deductible donation**: monerofund.org

We have 3 real earth months to either bring multisig out of experimental state and/or increase the UX

well we can at least have a meeting about starting a conversation

Feedback/conversation for luigis proposal this saturday 9th?

Ajs_ direct funding (DF) itself is not laughable, its just for the CCS - ive lost count how many times ive needed to use the fact that we hold the funds as leverage to receive updates / progress. DF on the CCS would only be a small % of cases e.g. a monerokon LLC that has been self functioning/holding funds already

<a​js_:matrix.org> could be might fault in being able to clearly articulate what I envision for DF proposal

<a​js_:matrix.org> it is a different role for the CCS

<a​js_:matrix.org> instead of holding funds, the would vet proposals and negotiate for a breakdown milestones

<a​js_:matrix.org> for an example, if a proposer is seeking 100 XMR, the could be asked to divide the the proposal into 5 parts will defined deliverables of what will be completed for each part

<a​js_:matrix.org> one 1 milestone at a time is moved to funding required

<a​js_:matrix.org> the "leverage" to get updates/progress reports is completing the milestone for the remaining parts to be moved to funding required one at a time

<a​js_:matrix.org> the proposer will depend on reputation and their track record for DF

<a​js_:matrix.org> could be my fault in being able to clearly articulate what I envision for DF proposal

<a​js_:matrix.org> could be my fault in not being able to clearly articulate what I envision for DF proposal

<a​js_:matrix.org> instead of holding funds, the community would vet proposals and negotiate for a breakdown milestones

<a​js_:matrix.org> for an example, if a proposer is seeking 100 XMR, they could be asked to divide the the proposal into 5 parts with defined deliverables of what will be completed for each part

<a​js_:matrix.org> but as p​lowsof notes, this would make up a small % of cases

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Lol.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> At this point in the idea, youve got problems

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> anyone want tell ajs why "raising funds for 1 milestone at a time" is 🤨? (he cant see me /ignore ofrnxmr)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So, i want 100xmr, 5 milestones

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Milestone 1: 20xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> bye

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I didnt even open a git repo. Gbye

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i do milestone 1, and milestone 2 goes up for funding and fails to be funded

We repurpose the 0 xmr If that happens dont worry

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No monero = no work.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No, i mean, for the dev

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What does the dev do just kill the project? That would have been funded it people knew the cost on day 1?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> either dev stops because dev chooses to (fully funded)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> or dev stops because the well dried up while they were working

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We already have nonsense where devs fk off due to exchange rates - lets add nonsense where donators fk off due to short attention spans

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 😂 i hate to mention my buddy geonic, but is ccs was proposed as such

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> was supposed to be "pay 1/2 first, then if i do as i said i would, pay the other half and hope i finish milestone 2"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Aka direct funding where the next milestone was dependent on the first.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> only, id think the second milestone would not have been funded or even merged

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you need money to pay ppl. Escrow is to earmark funds for the dev

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You need to SECURE funding

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Not just assume it will come

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> > <p​lowsof> We repurpose the 0 xmr If that happens dont worry

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And were the clowns with no money to redirect the failed projects

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Just writeoffs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> `reason for closing: couldnt secure funding 80% into completion"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> elephant in room is that we have ccs that fall apart because $ value raised != $ value at payout

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> To that i say: you get a specific amt of xmr, not dollars. If you need $, magic and kyc.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs does raises and pays xmr, not dollars.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ccs raises and pays xmr, not dollars.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i never hear complaints about being overpaid if $ value increased between donation and payout

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "i will only work in a bull market".. we pay xmr, idk what a bull is.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if you get 35xmr, and price jumps 10x, you still get 35xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> tldr: ccs = escrow.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No escrow = a completely different relationship.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> dev is no longer accountable to monero, but to investors. Monero just becomes a hall monitor, a mall cop

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Only reason for ccs in that situation is to pretend like the proposals were vetted

Ofrnxmr: Why do you think Milestone 1 would go to the funding part before it's completed? I assume it wouldn't.

it's essentially a DF retroactive funding model

As i understand it

The only issue is the lack of security about work getting funded once it's completed, i suppose

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sorry, brb.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> So the proposal is DF = make devs work before we accept their proposals? Then we'll try to get the money _after_ they complete a milestone?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats just as bad.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> now, i draw a line between this and retroactive funding. As retroactive funding is just another word for a retail purchase

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i have no problems with us raising money to pay for finished goods. Theres 0 risk in that.

That's good you thought things through.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Ya, just tired n hungry

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Brb

However, you could also move Milestone to funding required before it's completed. The most the community loses is the XMR amount associated with that milestone. In return we learn to burn that nym's reputation and it won't be allowed to propose anymore projects. The downside is the reputation/entry barrier for new nyms, and the infinite amount of new nyms that can be created.

<a​js_:matrix.org> there could be hybrid system, where new/low reputation nyms use the traditional ccs method

<a​js_:matrix.org> known nyms with a track record could opt in for DF

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Midi - we may also lose the dev / project

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If the money doesnt come fast enough

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Devs gotta eat too

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> not "hope for the best" every 4 weeks

ofrnxmr: yes, that's a risk. But it's we accept either risk of fund and run (A), or risk of no funding (B). It can't be both. Perhaps the method preffered can be part of the proposal. New proposers would be told to choose B until their rep suits A.

*but we either accept

<a​js_:matrix.org> there could be hybrid system, where new/low reputation nyms use the traditional ccs method <<>> devs with the highest rep have already expressed that they want to be funded using the current CCS format

<x​mradar:nope.chat> twitter.com/XMRadar/status/1732113798675267929

<x​mradar:nope.chat> #notashitcoin

<x​mradar:nope.chat> 😄

XMR doesn't need a stablecoin. It is a stablecoin.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> But a “we” stable

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> But are “we” stable

flexible like a rock

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Kinky

dsc_ is continually kinky

you guys are making it weird