<n​ot-from-the-irs:monero.social> I reformatted my y computer with element installed and now I can’t verify its me -_-

<k​illercat103:xmr.se> There goes your encrypted messages :/

<n​ot-from-the-irs:monero.social> Oh well. Ill just make a new profile I guess

<n​ot-from-the-irs:monero.social> Thanks for the heads up

<n​ot-from-the-irs:monero.social> Didnt even realize that was the case..

<n​ot-from-the-irs:monero.social> Ill be back lol

<k​illercat103:xmr.se> You don't really have to make an entirely new profile. Just throw away encrypted messages

<k​illercat103:xmr.se> verified profiles are also unverified now

what is xmr.se?

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Inge: I just see a block explorer at xmr.se. You mean who is running that? If yes, no idea. Maybe this is also a seed node?

Someone running it in a Stockholm data center: obe.net/hosting

I also see killercat103 seems to be on xmr.se?

like a matrix server or something?

<k​illercat103:xmr.se> Oh hi. Tried it cuz it didn't require email which i thought was cool

Well, someone from Stockholm (not me) is probably running it

<k​illercat103:xmr.se> I don't think the room directory is public but it feels good enough in speed and theres a matrix room to talk about the instance so im satisfied

Maybe the same person who put XMR sticker all over Stockholm :D

*stickers

<k​illercat103:xmr.se> You need to sign up with a matrix client. No client on the website

the impromptu meeting tomorrow for initial feedback / round up of luigis ccs proposal monero-project/meta #934#issuecomment-1847323570

an upcoming feather wallet release from tobtoht will also be shared (with offline signing with easy user experience)

<r​brunner7:monero.social> plowsof: Clever, getting more people to join the meeting by tempting them with a freebie :)

I will miss the meeting

what freebie will I be missing?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> only the latest and greatest in cold signing monero transactions with secure optical data transfer technology from the new feather wallet release

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> some of our very own feline friends who are CLI maxis may even be tempted to use it

i wont support this animated QR stuff for my hw wallet project

grabbing a phone is a bit too much effort

however for feather desktop it makes sense

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Do you think wowlet will do it too 😲

probably not

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> but, i read it in the whitepaper

i.imgur.com/eocCabq.png here is a pic of feather running on a $15 computer btw

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jkn. I cant even read.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I think offline signing will come to other wallets too

uhm, the graph moves, bad frame

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> How far off is Seraphis? Like ballpark. Next year, 2 or more? That's assuming it doesn't run into a hole or something. The community is focused on release, right? Any major doubts?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "Well that was an awkward silence"

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> oh jez, did I say something wrong?

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> should I get my coat?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lol

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> #no-wallet-left-behind:monero.social workgroup headed by rbrunner7 are pushing seraphis forward

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I give a ballpark of 2 years (from now) and knowing that you usually underestimate such things easily by half I land at 3 years until we really hardfork. Just think about the 2 dozen or so wallets that all need to adjust for a smooth transition, ideally. Plus integrations for between 5 to 10 programming languages. And Haveno. And Serai. I better stop :)

<r​brunner7:monero.social> But yeah, we really do focus on this.

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> Many thanks. Glad to find No Wallet Left Behind too

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> I keep seeing talk of it, but had no picture of when.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its always need 2+n years away

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youll know when, after things start to take shape

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Almost like fusion is always 50 years away, no?

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> Not a good idea? I mean Seraphis

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Been**

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Rbrunner - right. Then magically 1 day, its 90 days out.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Well, soon jberman, jeffro256 and dangerousfreedom will more or less run out of other big things to program for the cdebase, so there is hope.

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> lol I think I stepped into something

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thing are coming together, but not yet to a point where you can say "all we have to do is a b c and j , polish q and test r, then were done"

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Except multisig maybe, that may develop into a distraction from Seraphis ...

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Polyseed is being implemented by wallets now, instead of waiting for the hard fork

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats 1 less change that people need to make at the time

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Yes, which is nice. Pressure mounts for the "official" wallet to lift their asses

<r​brunner7:monero.social> *wallets

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Even once seraphis is ready, services need to be prepared for address and seed changes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Doing the seed now means they can keep the same wallet moving forward

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Yes. Surprise: Those very long addresses will probably get longer still :)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Is Polyseed related to Seraphis changes?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jamtis requires it iirc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But it doesnt require jamtis

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I would say no. Just a different way to arrive at "the" private key. But people will learn to handle it, so less confusion for the hardfork, as I see it.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or maybe its seraphis.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ill shutup now

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But yeah. I think its better is the majority of users are on their new seeds _before_ the fork. Then they dont have to create new wallets and move their funds all at the same time

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Jamtis + polyseed at the same time is a pretty major change to make. New seeds and addresses = new wallet. Seraphis = new protocol.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> so its like a whole new blockchain. Hard forks can be contentious enough. Id prefer a "smooth transition"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> at least, as smooth as possible

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Yes. I once called it *Monero 2.0* or *Monero New Generation* and got flak immediately :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Also, fcmp if it comes at the same time, changes everything again

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> But I imagine it will be seen like that. 2 protocols with the same aim

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Or better, changes even more.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> izzzy: Users won't need a new seed. The 25 word seeds will not be deprecated. Polyseed is convenient and optional.

<i​zzzy:matrix.org> I'd say a lot more than convenient. A damned good thing to happen

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Ask dEBRUYNE about support nightmares because of wrong restore height.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> rbrunner7: I know :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I swear koe or tevador were questioning whether to even support converting 16 > 25, since the plan was to drop 25

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 25 has issues

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Well, you can't stop people from programming that, it's not difficult at all to give out those bits, decided by Polyseed, as a legacy 25 word seed

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Basically one line of code and an interactive way to bring that to execution

<r​brunner7:monero.social> > since the plan was to drop 25

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Er... no.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> There are many multicoin wallets that have a single BIP39 seed phrase for all coins, including Monero. They usually use a custom method to convert the BIP39 to a Monero seed. Probably those wallets will still use the 25 word Monero seed phrase because BIP39 does not encode store height.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Looks like that to me as well.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> * restore height. Not store height

rucknium: I assumed that the 25th word was extra key information and not related to the block height at time of creation. Can you explain this?

Because your comment makes it sound like it is used to encode some block number, which seems impossible because keys are made without connectivity sometimes.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The 25th word is a checksum. It will be one of the first 24 words. The 25 word seed phrases do not encode restore height.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Polyseed does encode restore height.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I am saying that the specified multicoin wallets probably won't use polyseed.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> If you don't have connectivity, and your daemon is behind, all that will happen is that you get a restore height that's too low. No drama as long as you don't start at the genesis block

it guesses the blockheight from the date (there is some date far in the future where it can't guess anymore.. i forgot)

<v​oidastro:matrix.org> if a monero address never leaks (ex. wallet primary address) can a future quantum computer tie all or any of it's stealth addresses together?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Maybe a better q for Monero Research Lounge

so for this 'hw wallet' i'm attempting, it will sit on your LAN and in order to make a transaction you'll use any other device to browse to its web-interface

but any outgoing transaction will need to be confirmed by phyiscally operating the touchscreen

in terms of attack surface it sits somewhere between a Trezor and a airgapped old thinkpad

no, attack surface is the wrong word

in terms of 'security', i.e: since the private key is not on your computer or mobile it is more safe than that, but not safer than a Trezor because they have a secure element

so people with certain requirements should look into trezor/ledger

I'm trying to make a touchscreen device for casual users who do 1) do not want to store it on the exchange 2) want a good user-experience 3) want to prevent storing private keys on the devices they daily drive

As for hardware, I am using orangepi.org/html/hardWare/computer…lers/details/Orange-Pi-Zero-2W.html

and a nice 5" matte (non-reflective) display

its meant to always be on, so you can put it somewhere in the home and display a cool dashboard with tickers or whatever

ill be 3D printing some case

granted more of a hobby project for myself but if people have e.g raspberry pi lying around it could be cool for them

might also build in bitcoin support while I am at it