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<comradeblin:matrix.org> Join us today for a Holiday Special @:
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plowsof
Meeting here in 1hr55min
monero-project/meta #946
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<izzzy:matrix.org> In Cli, is it possible for Alice to view the balance of Bob's wallet, if Bob provides primary addy and secret view key? Or is it necessary for Bob to provide a signed key image for Alice to import?
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<endor00:matrix.org> Private view key shows incoming inputs. Key images then tell you if those inputs have been spent or not. So if you want to know the real balance, you know the key images as well
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<izzzy:matrix.org> Thanks the reply. would that better as "so if you want to know the real balance, you NEED the key images as well"? If not, I'm reading your reply wrong.
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<izzzy:matrix.org> Using an imported key image is clear for me in Cli. No worries there.
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<endor00:matrix.org> Oops typo - yes, I meant that you need the key images to know the real (unspent) balance
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<plowsof:matrix.org> Meeting time
monero-project/meta #946
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<plowsof:matrix.org> Greetings
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nioCat
meow
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<michael:monero.social> Hello.
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> hi
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nioCat
xmas weekend :)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> luigi has a gift for us soon, an update from luigi1111 regarding timeline of when temporary CCS wallet is up and running.[here](
monero-project/meta #935#issuecomment-1867257410)
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midipoet
Hello
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plowsof
hiya
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> is the CCS wallet address displayed to donators from monero-site or the CCS frontend repo?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> would not have been possible without suggestions/feedback/work from the community. the images of the debian machine are being forensically analysed
monero-project/meta #923#issuecomment-1862024427
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 🛌
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<plowsof:matrix.org> i believe only the general fund address is displayed
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Close
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<michael:monero.social> Hello.
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> just wondering which one we have to send a PR to (unless luigi does it)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> that would be the ccs front end repo i think hinto 🤔 (which stnby reported that the gitlab instance needed an update, which was swiftly done)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> a PR to remove any instances of the old ccs wallets primary address?
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> pgp signature verifying the address from luigi should probably be done as well
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> or
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Lemme just sync it :P
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<plowsof:matrix.org> definitely. the new view wallet will be up and running / ready for merges shortly
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<plowsof:matrix.org> now
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> View wallet is up
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<plowsof:matrix.org> running on the backend*
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Since last time we were here, midi mentioned meta being neglected
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<plowsof:matrix.org> yes, midipoet is raising awareness of the abandoned meta issues
github.com/monero-project/meta/issues. Many have been/can be closed already, although briefly looking, some require updates/further discussion.
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<plowsof:matrix.org> seems like selsta/ofrnxmr have closed some
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midipoet
I propose having a dedicated community meeting for open meta issues
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<plowsof:matrix.org> Dan r/dark (Is not the man & Braxman Tomsparks Advocate ): has set up a mattermost for -events (and also for community)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> would one of those focal boards be perfect to track monero-meta issues?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> > <midipoet> I propose having a dedicated community meeting for open meta issues
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> im against that, as its clear meetings are a waste of time for meta
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> A massive wasre of time
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midipoet
how is it clear?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> You have different types of meta issues.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> ideas - these cannot be solved at meetings
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> -logs
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> - not relevant
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Anyway, about 40% of the issues rhat were outatanding have been deal with
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> another 15-20% in the worka
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> The rest are open discussions
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Been dealt* with
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<ctrej:matrix.org> hello
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midipoet
some are open discussions since 2018. How long should they stay open?
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> which particular issue(s) need closing/discussion most?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> A bunch of them, by reading the issue, seeing if still relevant, contacting those involved
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midipoet
We should have a process for reaching consensus on either a) doing something, b) outlining loose consensus on the matter, or c) close the issue (as it's dead).
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<plowsof:matrix.org> alot have already been closed in the space of several days, thank you for shining a light on the issues
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> A lot of the 3yr old ones are being looked at
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midipoet
What about the ones from 2018?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> organising what is what on a focal board first (with any relevant updates) seems a good next step
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> And revisited by the deva or proposers, a lot of them have been closed as completed or not viable
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Example: vtnerd has commented on multiple and closed a couple
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<plowsof:matrix.org> midipoet is hard to please. if you compare the -meta issues to before you raised awareness
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> You have ones where "we dont even use that system anymore"
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midipoet
So can we close them then?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social>
monero-project/meta #310
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> no wallet left behind / seraphis is renaming a lot of things
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<plowsof:matrix.org> i was assuming midpoet would come forward with a list of high priority meta issues but we can work on that instead if you have not much time
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 580 and 581, ive contacted seth about. Not sure if these lists are being used anywhere, and adoption is much larger
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midipoet
plowsof: why would i come forward with a list at this meeting, when I was told to ask permission for a meeting?
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midipoet
better do as told!
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<plowsof:matrix.org> when its time to reach consensus, then we can gather votes at a meeting when a simple yes/no is required?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> you said you were going to propose an agenda (but im happy you didnt)
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> ty for letting me work in peace
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midipoet
ofrnxmr: i said that PRIOR to being told i had to ask permission. So here i am asking permission from the gatekeepers
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Ok, no then ofrnxmr the gatekeeper says no
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Ty.
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midipoet
Fair enough
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midipoet
Carry on
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<plowsof:matrix.org> im going to give midipoet a yellow card for insulting our efforts and calling us gatekeepers
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<plowsof:matrix.org> (im joking)
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midipoet
ye are definitely gatekeepers
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midipoet
Just so it's clear
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midipoet
Thanks for your time
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> How?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> asking permission already sets the tone of us being gatekeepers
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midipoet
Yes
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Im working
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midipoet
I was told to ask permission
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> And im asking the people involved
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<plowsof:matrix.org> you asked me when there was a day without a meeting.. this meeting runs once every 2 weeks
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midipoet
In what was supposed to be a permissionless environment
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<plowsof:matrix.org> there is no spoon midipoet, free your mind
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> github is NOT permissionless
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> i cant even close an issue.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Neither can plowsof.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> the only thing i can do, is action
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nioCat
this is taking a rather large amount of time and we have much more to do
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nioCat
maybe a meeting is needed where we can talk about action
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midipoet
i would agree.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> next agenda item ❤️
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> ^ no idea what is happening
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> @niocat action is actioning with or without whoever
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> The bus doesnt wait
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<plowsof:matrix.org> so meta-issues will be added to the agenda , if midipoet is organising adhoc meetings or a specific monero-meta room amazing
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<plowsof:matrix.org> anything to add midipoet?
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midipoet
none. I'll organise a meeting when required
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<plowsof:matrix.org> thank you
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<plowsof:matrix.org> [Douglas Tuman Working full-time on Monero Projects (6 months)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> the full payout amount has been requested with quite the extensive update of Doug/Sunitas achievements
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nioCat
did he quit his job?
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nioCat
no, he came to his senses lol
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nioCat
I was not involved with this originally
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<plowsof:matrix.org> shortcomings in areas wihle overachieving in others
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> i honestly appreciate dougs outreach
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Right
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> maybe off-topic: i think we should start figuring out the community multisig signers relatively soon
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> He's helped sponsor sports teams, onboard merchants
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<plowsof:matrix.org> we have until March
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> And monerotopia never ccs'd
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nioCat
they did try once
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> So i also think about monerkon costs vs how much topia saved us
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nioCat
anyway as before I don't have much to say
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> And i expect there to be a topia 2024
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<plowsof:matrix.org> if people haven't had time to read the full update / leave feedback, well, we can give people time as it was posted ~7 days ago
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nioCat
they are trying to make it not conflict timewise with kon
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<plowsof:matrix.org> nice
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> there's 6~8 meetings left to figure out what set of people are responsible for releasing funds for CCS's (luigi said explicitly he doesn't want to be included)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> and btw an easy to use airgapped wallet wouldnt have been possible so quick without featherwallet which has a reproducible build process, and requests people to build/sign hashes (much like Monero with gitian) more info here. much appreciated if you have a spare 40gigs of disk space / computing power.
github.com/feather-wallet/feather-sigs
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<plowsof:matrix.org> tobtoht is also working on multisig UX with jeffro256
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> excluding conflict of interest people, there's almost no-one available :)
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nioCat
Cat has no conflicts of interest
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<plowsof:matrix.org> gingeropolous debruyne nioCat
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<plowsof:matrix.org> rbrunner7
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midipoet
charuto, perhaps
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<plowsof:matrix.org> also good
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midipoet
ofrnxmr as well
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nioCat
*Cat is not the strongest when it comes to tech
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> okay never mind we have an ample amount of people, but would they take on the responsibility?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> just use peer pressure
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nioCat
lol
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<plowsof:matrix.org> it'll be fine
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<plowsof:matrix.org> congratulate them before theyve agreed etc
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<ctrej:matrix.org> congratulations plowsof
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<ctrej:matrix.org> ^like that?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> y- yes
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nioCat
as things take longer than expected it's not a bad idea to get this rolling sooner rather than later
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nioCat
I am sure plowsof knows :)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> it would be nice if tobtoht and jeffro256 could discuss a portential ccs together working on their planned multisig UX upgrades
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<plowsof:matrix.org> instead of pulling hours away from their other work
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 100%.
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<plowsof:matrix.org> the open CCS issues have all been voted on bar one, hintos cuprate proposal
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<plowsof:matrix.org> which has been updated recently k. [hinto-janai - full-time work on Cuprate (3 months)](
repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/422)
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Lets discuss hinto's
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> kayabanerve: boog900: someoneelse495495:
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> do i just leave the room now or...
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> vtnerd: jberman: jeffro256:
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> any comments?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> will monero-core benefit from this work?
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nioCat
hinto you are free to stay
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> not immediately, but yes definitely medium/long-term
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nioCat
answer questions and give input :)
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<plowsof:matrix.org> boog900 could not get over the hurdles faced when trying to get cuprate work funded. only until he changed the proposal to sponsor work that would specifically benefit monero-sore
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> after all, we're digging up 8+ year old code no one wants to touch and can relay all the (correct and incorrect) behavior we see
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<plowsof:matrix.org> s/sore/core
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<plowsof:matrix.org> perhaps boog900's work has changed the outlook on cuprate and it is less of a blocker now? not much feedback has been obtained yet
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<boog900:monero.social> I had the document in from the start of my current proposal
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<plowsof:matrix.org> that seems to be the main issue, obtaining feedback. when luigi handles merges it wont be a needle in a haystack
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<plowsof:matrix.org> 2 quick news items: sech1 notes peak in tx's "All time high was 62k, but it's when minexmr closed and paid out all pending balance. if we don't count that event, current peak is all time high" [monerologs](
libera.monerologs.net/monero/20231220#c315161). CakePay returns [reddit post] (
reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/18o06f…_pay_adds_over_500_new_xmr_purchasa<clipped message>
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<plowsof:matrix.org> ble/) / [monero.town](
monero.town/post/1494633)
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 528 hrs is how long in weeks?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> 40 hours a week would be 13.2
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nioCat
hinto I believe that this has been answered before but does the proposed work still maintain it's relevancy with the intended move to Seraphis
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> 👋
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> seraphis is mostly changes on the wallet side of things, for now cuprate is just re-implementing the node
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> This is the wrong question. Will Monero?
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> While I haven't read up on this proposal specifically, give me a minute and I can, cuprate does benefit Monero *and* monero Core
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<plowsof:matrix.org> right, the Monero
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nioCat
ofrn pi weeks
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> The recent failure in seeds was detected by monero-serai btw
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<plowsof:matrix.org> as i thought, it is a needle in a haystack
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> ofrnxmr: 3 months, 8.8 hours mon-fri
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Eh, half and half. Serai implemented a slightly distinct algorithm which had this shared root cause.
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<plowsof:matrix.org> if kayaba could review in a more relaxed timeframe and leave feedback that is also fine
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<plowsof:matrix.org> although kayabanerve is a savant
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I don't agree with all of the comments but the rate seems more than reasonable and I believe hinto can do the work discussed.
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I also believe in the value of cuprate
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I'll also disclose hinto made a couple minor PRs to monero-serai already so if you believe this CCS will cause more, I have a conflict of interest
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<plowsof:matrix.org> thank you for the feedback and openness
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<plowsof:matrix.org> we're over the hour but can continue the current topic, is there AOB?
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<kayabanerve:matrix.org> AOB?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> (any other business) midipoet travelled 300km~ to sign papers for monerokons "twisted edwards" / Siren has to go to the embassy a 2nd time .. ajs_ will attend at the start of January, thank you to all of them . more info in #monero-events:monero.social
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nioCat
meeting in #monero-events in less than 1hr
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<plowsof:matrix.org> thank you all for attending x
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> A new "monerokon" chat policy will be tabled at the meeting
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> It hopes to give twisted edwards control over monero-events moderation
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<plowsof:matrix.org> seasons greetings / happy new years Monero basados
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> thanks everyone
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> merry christmas and all that good stuff
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Lets a if santa merges some ccs for christmas
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> See* if
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<michael:monero.social> Good meeting and moderation, dankon everyone.
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<plowsof:matrix.org> midipoet if i blindly put all open meta issues into a focal board will that help
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> No 😂
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> So they close automatically when they close on GH?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Do*
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> If not, no. Thats just doubling the work
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Need to close them twice now?
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<plowsof:matrix.org> i want to use dans cool focal boards
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<plowsof:matrix.org> XD
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Ive been looking at the.. playbooks
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> For auto notifying and scheduling of meetings
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> To close one of the metas :P :D
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social>
monero-project/meta #206
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Might need the paid version of mattermost to schedule recurring stuff 📖
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<plowsof:matrix.org> i can close meta issues, i just noticed. now i have zero excuses
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<plowsof:matrix.org> luigi to continue as CCS escrow closed
monero-project/meta #935
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<plowsof:matrix.org> i can close issues i've created* xD
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nioCat
plowsof: asks me to login so no
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<plowsof:matrix.org> midipoet does this 30 ish minutes of slave labour satisfy you
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<plowsof:matrix.org> we have movable boxes now
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nioCat
i c nao
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> > A new "monerokon" chat policy will be tabled at the meeting
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> .
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> > It hopes to give twisted edwards control over monero-events moderation
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> .
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Lol
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> "must dox yourself to vote"
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> lmao
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> I didn’t vote, but that sucks
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> vote anonymously
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> lmao
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monerokon != monero events. The entire policy is a sham
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Good point
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<plowsof:matrix.org> this is orange card behaviour: ridiculing a workgroup , im writing you up
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Can cake wallet hos% a meetup in chicago, go to events and have a "cake wallet policy" then ban people from events for speaking about defcon?
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<comradeblin:matrix.org> strawpoll does not give out ips. I created the poll, I only see the results, noones ip/name / name of their pet fish is shown
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Doesn’t matter
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monerokon isnt a workgroup
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monerokon is in the process of becoming a legal org
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monero-events is a workgroup
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> I do everything over tor minimum, I didn’t visit the poll, if it doesn’t work, then too bad
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<plowsof:matrix.org> 3 capital M's in a row.. im warning you
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> This is not a monero-events policy, it is a monerokon policy
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Some people don’t want to reveal IP to straw poll mayber
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Some people don’t want to reveal IP to straw poll maybe
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, like, anybody with opsec
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Lol
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Poll sponsored by moonstone research, the best in chainanalysis
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<plowsof:matrix.org> a +1 / -1 could be added to votes as is tradition
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> No
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> monerokon can get their own room
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<plowsof:matrix.org> but only comradblin can see the results
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> idiots think they own events
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<comradeblin:matrix.org> this is all I se
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<comradeblin:matrix.org> see*
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Comrade - "monerokon planning meetings" and "monerokon chat policies" have 0 authority over monero-events
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monero-events is NOT monerokon's roon
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> I know. Some people have stricter threat models, that is that
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> "you" see. How about the person who owns the site, that blocks tor?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Fuck that guy
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> And hiding behind an anon vote?
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<comradeblin:matrix.org> we will vote in matrix then, and find a normal poll site, okay?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Fucking hilarious
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Sure
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> We vote with our handles around here
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Vote to create a monerokon room
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Where monerkon planning has the authority tk dictate the chat policy of the entire channel
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Why not monerokon.org hosts their own matrix server
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Never mind
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Monerokon has 0 authority to tell me or anyone else about whether i can talk about msvb and defcon
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> They can 🤷♂️
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> They xan also just create a monerokon:monero.social
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> This is what I meant
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Can’t type too fast, I’m very busy atm
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<comradeblin:matrix.org> ofrnxmr, u disapprove, right?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> i dont have to
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> You kon has 0 authority
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> the vote is toilet paper
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Kon is a USER of the room
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> and not even a "were not a company" one
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> an org's policies dont apply to monero workgroups
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> So they can say whatever they want
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Vote is toilet paper
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Blue cards, pink cards, no cards
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Circus clowns and strippers dancing for free
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Want an "events chat policy"
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Well then have an "events workgroup" meeting
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Whatever some companies conference decides, is really NONE of my concern
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Ban me from monerkon discussions, ban me from whatever monerokon you want.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> dont try to parade around as if monerokon IS monero-events. Monerokon is LESS monero-events than ever, now that they are incorporating
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> "i, ofrnxmr, am banning my neighbors from going to the public park. Because i hang out there"
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> I guess so. What’s the legal alternative?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Lmao
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Are you banned from monero-events?
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Yes
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<recanman:agoradesk.com> Oh
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Was banned for 7 days
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> But i guess the clocks dont work at kob
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> They have to have make sure i dont join the meetin
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> ban me before the last one, and then make a sham policy ABOUT ME and make sure to forget to unban me
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<dadajo:monero.social> Yes you should speak to Dan the server owner
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> i dont have to
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Everybody watched the circus
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<123bob123:matrix.org> sgp_ ^
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Hes not the only mod
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Youve got like mods in there, active
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> 3*
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> comradeblin: ?
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Well yeah
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<123bob123:matrix.org> 1 week naughty corner
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Is ovwr
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Are you waiting for permission? Or am i getting more time served?
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<123bob123:matrix.org> You may return sir
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Ty
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Green card
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<123bob123:matrix.org> On mattermost you can only publicly share the board not the individual cards
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Otherwise you needs to login
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dEBRUYNE
plowsof: I am honored by the mention, but don't think I'd be available to do it
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plowsof
Understood debruyne, the one we need but do not deserve <3
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<123bob123:matrix.org> Alt exposed
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<123bob123:matrix.org> yeah 10usd/per user/per month for professional.
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<ofrnxmr:monero.social> Per user :/
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<123bob123:matrix.org> yeah 13 users currently
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<123bob123:matrix.org> so is there a meta meeting?
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<123bob123:matrix.org> just reading meeting minutes
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luigi1111
We will want a small test CCS to test the new address scanning and such. Maybe we could call it jet fund 2.0
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<kinghat:matrix.org> fund-a-mentals
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<123bob123:matrix.org> If its small funds has to be yacht fund