ct, thank you for the message! :)

<m​ultix:frei.chat> Just now messing with Haveno, seems like it could very well shape up to be a viable alternative to LocalMonero. Will make an offer this week

<m​ultix:frei.chat> Is Haveno Reto what I'm supposed to be using

<o​cean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> yes

<t​hyphooncyberpunk:matrix.org> youtube.com/watch?v=V6B5xtWrohw

<m​ultix:frei.chat> I've seen this before and actually already have it downloaded. Atomic swaps seem like the way to go for crypto to crypto, but haveno seems like the best bet going forward for fiat <-> xmr

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/ovmleSSnKywWhrPZFPdHHpdI

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/KgHODZioxEDhJgJHTNHEEgEp

<h​apna:monero.social> i feel sorry for people that work at a help desk

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> We have sso ????

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> OIDC when

if you have not written your facebook id down on paper theres nothing we can do for you, sorry

MyMonero supports login with Facebook?

oh i see, via third party auth/login. i don't know, now that makes this plausible lol

<h​apna:monero.social> i can still access facebook you sure it was deleted?

<a​js_:matrix.org> I was invited to speak at shieldingsummit.org about Monero

<a​js_:matrix.org> 10 July, Brussels

<a​js_:matrix.org> I am unavailable around that time

<a​js_:matrix.org> Anyone close by interested in giving a talk there?

Not sure it was posted here already -> x.com/ray_noOnes/status/1803006129129029875

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Hi team, any word on trading Monero on something like Kraken? I'm not seeing it listed on getmonero.org

<s​trawberry:monero.social> its on kraken in some countries but ideally you shouldn't be using those exchanges

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> People are p2p trading on telegram

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> > <@shadow06:matrix.org> Hi team, any word on trading Monero on something like Kraken? I'm not seeing it listed on getmonero.org

<x​mrfamily:matrix.org> People are p2p trading on telegram, it's disorganized and prone to scams but it's what's working right now

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> This doesn't seem ideal :/

<d​qznrqhzc8:matrix.org> Yeah kraken isn’t that good

<s​trawberry:monero.social> are you trying to trade monero for national currency or for another crypto? the latter is much easier

Kraken is listed on getmonero though

Want to bring to attention that I kindly request the payout for the first Milestone I finished some time before the proposal got merged: repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…708cb6890dde019d80d21c50#note_25009 and hope that the odds in my favor because the money issue reduces my productivity at least 50%.

<c​t:xmr.mx> ^^^^ plowsof @plowsof:libera.chat plowsof @plowsof:monero.social

Thanks for ping, request has been ACK'd and payout soon(tm)

8) thank you very much! That make life and coding so much easier :)

Nice work vthor. You've surpassed the original project already

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Tbh it didnt take much to do that

plowsof: :D Thank you

Oh slight change to the place you should comment

plowsof: how you mean that? related to the URI's?

ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/%20MoneroSignerResurrection.html people usually go from here to see updates voa the bottom link ''view discussion...' @ repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/465

Oh nevermind, youve got one here too :+1

Okay, because now I'm confused

:D probably catch all, how I told, I feel at the moment like a monkey pushing all buttons in the hope that one button will release food.

I got it also probably wrong and edited the description (updated the checkboxes part and wrote Done on first milestone (instead of expected time frame), should I restore it from the markdown file, or let it? Would it not be better to have them updated?

that would be done in a merge request, and can be merged, but not important now, its the norm to post in the comments if you make any major progress and/or milestones (not daily, but weekly/biweekly/monthly

okay, so I will later copy the old state back to the description.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> We are at 500MB in the txpool on stressnet. This may be the largest Monero txpool ever: monitor.stressnet.net

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I was hoping to trade $ for monero, but I'm in the US.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Xmrbazaar.com and click earn xmr

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I was just curious if there was a roadmap or any plans that we know of.

niOtC

niOTC

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> matrix.to/#/!gQJbRTGiTuVmJhnVGe:mat…via=matrix.org&via=m.datura.network

<s​trawberry:monero.social> try using haveno, it's p2p trading with an arbitrator to prevent scams

<s​trawberry:monero.social> not much volume on haveno last time I checked though

<m​onerobull:monero.social> since launch last month it had 410 xmr volume

<m​onerobull:monero.social> really not a whole lot but its growing

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> either kraken with kyc or github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> haveno is working

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> telegram p2p with random people without escrow is like playing russian roulette with 5 bullets

<s​trawberry:monero.social> I can't think of an easier way to get scammed

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Agreed

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'll have to look into that repo. I didn't see Kraken listed, but I have no problem using it. I understand it limits my privacy.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> That being said I've seen some cool privacy pool smart contracts.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> those are pretty flawed

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no real privacy without privacy on the base layer

<s​trawberry:monero.social> yeah I wouldn't rely on any of that

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Agreed. I'm doing a lot of learning right now. Does Monero support smart contracts?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> monerodocs.org seems down for me :(

<s​trawberry:monero.social> no, no contracts or scripts or anything

<s​trawberry:monero.social> it's just payments and it does that well

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> Just casually dropping monero prices on the sly.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/KxyhPbeQRVkHdlPKRITdJaju

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we have multisig and a really useless implementation of timelocks, that's about it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and the multisig is very limited

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Multisig is nice though

<s​gp_:monero.social> getmonero.dev archive

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> The privacy pool stuff using zkProofs is really cool, but requires a highly sophisticated user to be truly private. It would be so much nicer if the L1 was privacy preserving.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I imagine if bitcoin supported smart contracts natively and could scale it would be a solution too

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you already have crypto, serai.exchange will probably be the best way to get monero

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> But this is all pie in the sky hopes and dreams talk. I appreciate the resources. FYI here in Austin, TX monerodocs.org is down :(

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> >pie in the sky hopes and dreams talk

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it really isnt

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> serai is nearly done

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the concept has already been demonstrated to work by thorchain and serai greatly improves on that

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> a PoW L1 that can do 10kTPS would be nice

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> monero can in theory do that

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but you would never ever need that many tps

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> To replace the $ you would in my opinion

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> imo it is silly to believe crypto will ever come anywhere near close to that

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> We are no where close to replacing $, baby steps

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Something has to.... I guess the Yuan is an alternative

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> youll get CBDCs soon enough

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> We are no where close to replacing fiat, baby steps

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and thats when more and more people will adopt something like monero

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> But then monero will break :(

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but it will most likely always remain as a parallel economy type thing

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Have we seen a blockchain with >1M active users work?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> 1 million tx per day is already easily possible today

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> What blockchain does 1M Tx daily?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I am probably missing something

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> of real world transactions, no smart contracts?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Either is interesting right now

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Tx is tx

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it really isnt

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you cant compare monero tx count to eths

Bitcoin does 400-600k daily

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> To me it is. I'm sitting here thinking there isn't a blockchain that can support >1M active users or ~3M tx daily

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> You can they are buying selling their “shit” tokens with those contracts

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we could even handle 10 million tx per day but we'd loose a bunch of nodes to storage constraints

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> bandwidth is fine though

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> above 10 million we likely need a few more years of average internet speeds increasing

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I think 10k TPS is the limit of the internet currently

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> eth has a fuckton more bots than monero

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> for example for turning many regular transactions (someone swapping) into 3 transactions through sandwich attacks

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I was just thinking... we need something to replace the $, otherwise when it breaks, people will move and then that will break.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the dollar wont become worthless over night

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Actions done by bots are also transactions, he doesn’t talk about real world adoption 😅

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> at least currently, based on what I know about blockchains, which is probably limited

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah but monero simply doesnt have those

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> so you cant compare eth tx count with moneros

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> monero can dynamically scale

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Tx count on blockchain chain increases on eth chain ?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to meet demand

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Is there anything that's proved something close to 10k TPS? I understand thats the current limit of the internet, blockchain or no.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I believe 10k TPS is most of $ transactions including credit/debit cards and ACH. If we include cash and other methods it's a lot larger.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i dont get the point youre trying to make. my point is that eth has thousands of mev bots, the majority of transactions is automated. monero doesnt have that so any one monero transaction is more likely a real-world economic transaction (like someone buying a beer) compared to any one eth transaction

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm not even thinking about ETH

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm thinking about $ and I believe it will break

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> So if I pick Monero... when the $ breaks and everyone moves to monero.. will monero break due to demand?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we dont need 10k tps. moneros ath was during the spam attack a few months ago and it was like 1 tps

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> As I said, it’s not about real world adoption but just tx throughput on chain that I was talking about

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> So far, based on what I know, every other blockchain has broken much sooner than 10kTPS

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> nodes would majorly struggle but you dont go from 0.5 tps to 10000 tps over night

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it would take years

<s​trawberry:monero.social> payment channels in monero when?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> So monero would break as in I wouldn't be able to use my funds to pay my buddy to fix my toilet

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> over the span of those years, hardware & internet speeds should improve to where 10k tps is doable

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> nah that should work

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> When the $ breaks the next tech needs to be ready... immediately? lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> your issue will be that you need a lot of bandwidth to run a node

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> no

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> because the $ wont break immediately

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> that is pure fiction

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Why? It happens overnight to fiat currencies all the time

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Look at the peso lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> they dont entirely die

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this is not rick and morty

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> youtube.com/watch?v=noQsHiTJAXo

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Central banked currency will always be around and monero will always be used outside it

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Thats what the germans thought of the frank lol

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> And they are now with euro !

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> should either the dollar or euro go to 0 overnight, people wont have any monero anyways

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Name will change, they will be around centuries

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Okay, so the consensus is Monero is complimentary to fiat and we believe fiat will be dependable indefinitely until quantum computing exists and AI is ubiquitous?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> When in reality the fiat currency is in it's infancy and in the span of the history of currencies has the least credibility? lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> have you seen the might of the US military? that whole thing serves to protect the dollar

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I served in the US military... which is why I know a thing or two about where we're headed

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> this dumpster fire aint getting put out lol

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> We saw that in Afghanistan

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah but it also wont suddenly turn into a nuclear explosion, at least its very unlikely. it will keep burning and become bigger and bigger over a long period of time

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Is this the general consensus monerobull ?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Like a frog in warming water... lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i would say that it is the most grounded-in-reality way of thinking but i cant speak for everyone

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Monero keeps developing, 10k+ tps will come when world is ready

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> imo it is very likely monero will be able to support 10k tps on a technical level waaaaaay before it reaches that usage

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Okay, I understand this and think it's sensible.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if it ever even reaches that amount of usage

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I just believe the ball will drop faster than most people.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> and am nervous that blockchains won't be ready in time

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> my name may be monerobull but i dont subscribe to the idea that fiat will just die out and everyone will use crypto

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> I believed the same and it won’t happen in my lifetime

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> people are waaaay to comfortable with the fiat system for that

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> When I think of the history of money... fiat seems like a huge mistake and is dieing just as fast as it was perceived.

<s​trawberry:monero.social> it may be best in the long term if monero grows gradually, we don't want the principles to change because of mass adoption

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Romes currency slowly died over hundreds of years

<s​trawberry:monero.social> the people who see why something like monero is necessary are already here

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Was that fiat?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Fiat was tried in china and died in ~100yrs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> To be fair, those were at least partially backed by precious metals but the concentration got worse and worse

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/ehr.13305

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Fiat seems to be the mistake we keep making lol

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Except this time the $ will crash.... the whole world

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> not just 1 nation.... but most nations.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> With the internet people will switch to crypto in a measure of desperation... and I just hope something can handle it.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> In your insta-chaos scenario people wouldn't even be able to get into crypto

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Who would sell their precious Monero for literally worthless dollar

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> They could if something could handle the load! The whales would switch and prop up the method of transfer before it happens.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I'm not talking about the load

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> If dollar goes down 80% tomorrow, most people don't yet have crypto

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Who would sell their crypto for a dollar that is actively imploding?

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> They wouldn't sell crypto, they'd buy crypto

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> and if I know anything, the whales will know before it happens

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Fun fact, if you want to buy 1 Monero with dollars, someone needs to first want to sell 1 Monero for dollars

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> If everyone wants to get out of the dollar ASAP, nobody would want to get into the dollar

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> True, so the whales would rebuild the economy with their chosen currency

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> They'd end up owning all the capital

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Not entirely

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm speculating lol

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> but I do think fiat will crash quickly...

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> The dollar becoming worthless doesn't make someone's shares in apple worthless

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> No, labor would have to enter into a new agreement

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Instead of working for $, they'd have to work for something else

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> and there would be a transition period, but it's happened in the past

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Don't get me wrong, dollar imploding would be one of the most catastrophic financial events in human hisz

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Don't get me wrong, dollar imploding would be one of the most catastrophic financial events in human history

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> But I still think it would happen more like it is already happening to Garbage tier fiat like the Turkish lira

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Major loss in purchasing power, pretty quickly, but nowhere near instant

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> There would never ever be a scenario where Monero usage goes from 0.5 to 10k TPS without significant amounts of time in-between

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Thats reasonable too

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm just speculating

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Oh yeh and also the fact that people would obviously start pouring resources into monero

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> all the now unemployed devs could work on improving it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> service providers would provide super powerfull nodes

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> everyone who had monero before the dollar crash would be unbelievably wealthy and able to afford fat nodes

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> or even still employed ones

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if google had to rely on monero, they would have a whole team dedicated to improving it

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and so would many other companies

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but in reality: existing governments would just start fiat all over again

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it is insanely unlikely anything of what i said in this convo is going to happen at all, much less in our lifetimes

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> This is a good take. If and when we need it... the resource would show up. I can believe that

<p​reland:monero.social> The fate of the US dollar is entirely in the hands of the Federal Reserve

<p​reland:monero.social> They have two options currently: let the economy crash or devalue the dollar. They have been choosing the former for the last 15ish years (though I can’t say whether they will/can continue to do so)

<p​reland:monero.social> The US is also putting a lot of strain on the dollar by using it to attack other countries economically. This would’ve been devastating a decade ago, but countries are getting wiser.

<p​reland:monero.social> The most likely path I see to Monero adoption would be a US-sanctioned country (likely a dictatorship) adopting it as the main reserve and legal tender currency. The reason a dictator would do so (and relinquish their ability to inflate their own currency for their own gain) would be to allow their currency to be perceived as legitimate compared to others. I would expect other cou<clipped message>

<p​reland:monero.social> ntries aligned with that country to follow suit.

<p​reland:monero.social> What would follow would be a “war on drugs” scenario, but against Monero instead. This would be bad for most owners/early adopters in the West, but would ultimately fail. The longer the West wages war against mathematics, the more economic ground they give to their adversaries (I could see China mass-producing CPUs and using them to gain control over the network).

<p​reland:monero.social> Eventually, the US gives up and completely about faces, ramping up their own domestic compute in an attempt to compete with China. Maybe this causes a war, assuming China hasn’t already collapsed from population crunch by this point. Monero becomes universal and the phrase “Monero means money” is agreed upon regardless of political leanings or ideology. The world is not solv<clipped message>

<p​reland:monero.social> ed, but there’s one less thing to worry about.

<p​reland:monero.social> …..or Jerome Powell could make the rationale decision and let the “everything bubble” finally collapse. It’ll cause the first “lost generation” economy for Americans in over 100 years, but hey, at least it’ll keep the status quo intact.

<p​reland:monero.social> Again, very unlikely the scenario goes exactly how I described, but it is *technically* possible

<s​trawberry:monero.social> BRICS currency = MONERO all along?

<p​reland:monero.social> (And in case you are wondering, the value of XMR at the end of this would be in the 150-200k current USD range

<p​reland:monero.social> Have to specify current, because in this scenario actual USD would become so useless that it could be closer to 1-10m USD per XMR

<p​reland:monero.social> Exactly; no one will EVER trust a BRICS currency that is controlled by inherently unstable countries (none of the BRICS countries have had their current regime last for more than 80 years, very bad)

<p​reland:monero.social> Heck, do you think a *single* one of the BRICS countries trust another to properly run a currency? Heck no

<s​trawberry:monero.social> interesting perspective

<p​reland:monero.social> I try my best lol

<h​ardy_tom:matrix.org> Dear admin and fellow individuals sorry for the interruption 🙏

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<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> plowsof

<p​lowsof:monero.social> Thanks for ping Banhammer

<h​ardy_tom:matrix.org> Dear admin and fellow individuals sorry for the interruption 🙏

<h​ardy_tom:matrix.org> I Grow and supply  quality cannabis and psychedelics products like shrooms, DMT, Lsd, Mdma, ketamine, chocolate bars,Meth, cart vapes, buds, wax, shatter, Edibles,distillates, chill pills and many more like (bank notes) and CLONED CARDS too which have been tested to work perfectly💯.

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