<f​engzie:monero.social> seems like crypto currencies would keep to be one of the currencies used in world in future long time after?

<f​engzie:monero.social> There is some validity to that point. However, as a currency, it needs to have an anchor and be deeply tied to the economy. For BTC, I am not too optimistic in the long run, because its supply is fixed. If its value continues to rise, there will inevitably be strong organizations and companies that will buy and try to hold more of it, thus manipulating the price.

<f​engzie:monero.social> Cryptocurrency is a product of consensus. If it needs to hold value in the long term, it must still be anchored to the economy, or in other words, form a kind of consensus economy in the future, rather than becoming a collectible.

<f​engzie:monero.social> Important to note is how we can form a consensus economy, or that cryptocurrency is merely a technical means to fulfill certain needs, ultimately complementing fiat currencies.

<d​qznrqhzc8:matrix.org> Why can’t I buy monero on onmaper or whatever you call it

<d​qznrqhzc8:matrix.org> 🥺

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> these days we call it haveno

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> hey, had look on kycnot site yesterday, to see if were any new developments in the xmr exchange front... not been so active in the space over past months. but wonder what folk recommend for buying xmr for fiat?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> **haveno**? or just **getting btc and swapping to xmr, on exch or majestic bank or such**?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> looking to start on-boarding some friends to xmr, and keen to get clearer on 'best' options...

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> see **robosats and bisq are also options?** not considered either of those for xmr, wonder what liquidity is like on those?

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> thanks.

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> ... and keen to keep informed on what's going on the xmr space. if anyone has a couple of recommended xmr podcasts, be delighted to hear.

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> ... and keen to keep informed on what's going on the xmr space. if anyone has a couple of **recommended xmr podcasts**, be delighted to hear.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> never bitcoin

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if anything, do litecoin

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> there are only downsides to using bitcoin, mainly its waaaaay more expensive and waaaay slower

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> haveno is great if you already have at least 0.11 XMR for the initial security deposit

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you dont have that, id recommend getting LTC somehow and swapping via trocador

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to stay informed you can subscribe to the monero.observer rss feed, the only real podcast we have is monerotalk/topia

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i can also provide that for amazon com giftcodes (although at a big markup)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i can also provide that for amazon com giftcodes (although at a steep markup)

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> ok. thanks for the advice @moer

<m​ycellium:matrix.org> ok. thanks for the advice monerobull ... will take a look at all you've shared. didn't consider LTC. and will check out trocador, not used that. as well as haveno. seems that's the 'go-to' right now, with localmonero gone?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah, the only live network is called reto

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> github.com/retoaccess1/haveno-reto

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the major downside is, as mentioned, the security deposit (you need xmr to be able to buy more xmr)

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> feel free to use my troc ref link (no extra charge) trocador.app/?ref=YFJL36Szy7

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> feel free to use my troc ref link (at no extra cost) trocador.app/?ref=YFJL36Szy7

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> there is also a link in the monero.town sidebar

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> Bisq and robosats force you to go through bitcoin if you want monero at the end.

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> In haveno dex you can do Fiat -> xmr directly

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I like this analysis. I also think most people who matter see the writing on the wall at this point. USD's failure has been delayed too long. Again, fiat seems to be a mistake humanity makes over and over again. I'm unsure if it's a pendulum effect or if we expect something that leads us to choose fiat and that our expectations can actually be realized eventually due to advancements in technology.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> In other words. Do we choose fiat to enable exponential growth, but realistically thats not feasible? Or perhaps a new currency can enable that growth without being fiat. Maybe a currency based on energy instead of precious metals like gold.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> cointelegraph.com/news/100-years-ag…sed-energy-currency-to-replace-gold

<c​t:xmr.mx> "we" never chose fiat. Those who profit from fiats inflation chose fiat.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> lol understood. Replace "we" with "humanity"

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> "we" choose our leaders. I avoid victim mindsets.

<n​ihilist:m.datura.network> What matters is what I choose, not the rest of the world, there's no "we" for me

s​hadow06: do we? I don't choose anybody to coerce me :/ For me goverments are THE criminal organization, claiming every body else of criminal activity, with support of the majority, fuelled by fear, surrpressing the minority.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> I'm not touching that one lol

:D

<p​reland:monero.social> Any form of currency has its value tied to the ability for its supply to inflate

<p​reland:monero.social> Fiat currencies didn’t start having their value decreased until governments realized they could use the printing of money as an alternative to collecting taxes (same deal with “national debt”)

<p​reland:monero.social> Any currency tied to limited resources (precious metals, energy, etc.) will have their value remain relatively stable so long as the resources don’t suddenly have their supply increased (taking gold as an example: what would happen if “El Dorado” was actually found, and the total amount of gold and other precious metals effectively doubled overnight? Gold would decline in va<clipped message>

<p​reland:monero.social> lue *more* than half, as gold’s entire reserve status relies on it being rare, and this example would prove that it is in fact not)

<p​reland:monero.social> An analogy for those of us who are C programmers, currency is just a pointer to goods. Even non-backed fiat currency is still a pointer to goods (food, shelter, utilities, transport, gambling etc.). A currency is only as valuable as the things that you can trade it for

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> > New Zealand, the US, Australia, Canada, and the United Kingdom – commonly known as the ‘Five Eyes’ partners – have for the last 15 years built a burgeoning network to share ever more information about the people that cross each country’s border.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> >

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> > Migration 5’s goal has developed into a slogan: “Known to One, Known to All.” The five countries want to share everything they know about everyone that enters their respective countries."

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> rnz.co.nz/programmes/in-depth-speci…truth-about-the-shadowy-migration-5

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> There is always a choice.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> Fiat seems to have a longer history than just this last iteration. I linked an article detailing how China used it in the 13th century.

<s​hadow06:matrix.org> here

<p​reland:monero.social> Interesting; although I’d assume that paper was somewhat more difficult to manufacture back in the day than right now, so it may not really be the same