<3​21bob321:monero.social> it was a dark day in our monero history

<c​t:xmr.mx> backup available on monerica2.com / monerica.net

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> DDoS is really hurting these days

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> is it though

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> monero.town has had 780 million requests this month

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and most of the downtime was solely because i initially wanted to sit out the ddos

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> what sitting out the ddos mean ?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Shutting down the box and letting it pass.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thx rotten

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> As in, letting the attacker give up on his own, considering he has nothing to hit if box is down.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i guess that is a reasonable strategy. I know kyun.host was down for 2 weeks bc of it, iirc the guy was sending non-stop and had a lot of credits towards some ddoser so he could go on

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I prefer the metasploit founder strategy. Locate C2C server, set DNS on that ip, wait for the ddoser to get ddos 💯

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> we arent getting the control servers via tor

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> then ddos tor

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this will probably go on till europol gets them

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> easy

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes probably

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ah yes, ddos all exit nodes

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Imagine getting paid $1 per request

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Entry nodes*

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> can i make money off of the ddos somehow

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> uh i have an idea

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i can re-sell the ddos

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> all i have to do is change the DNS entry to a different domain lmao

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Yest forward requests

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> [H] 25 Million requests per day ddos [W] XMR

<3​21bob321:monero.social> At monero.town we are environmentally friendly and recycle ddos

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> who is the command and control now bitch

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> lol

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i could just point it back at the tor exit points but i dont want to attack tor

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The Tor network is valuable, these developers are so toxic and arrogant tho

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Free pentest for torguards

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Funfact tor has rooms on the matrix

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Instead of tor low, wen randomx moneropow

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Make ddoser send hashes

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 10000 difficulty as a captcha

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Quantum computer detector 5000

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> s/tor low/tor pow

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Tor artix is alpha or beta?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> alpha

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> afaik

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Seriously though. Someone needs to create a randomx gate for websites. Cloudflare captcha / i am a human nonsense takes like 10+ seconds to load and complete

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It should take less time for almost any modern phone or computer to find a 10k share. 100m requests should find a cpl blocks

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sort of like "pay for rpc" but instead "send hashes to access website"

where do these hashes go to?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Up in smoke

not to Dan? sad

<p​reland:monero.social> If this existed I would gladly implement it into any website I ran

<p​reland:monero.social> I’d say the PoW thingy that Tor has would be the best way to do it

<p​reland:monero.social> (Ie you can still access the domain without doing the work, but you will be at the back of the line)

<p​reland:monero.social> Lol imagine if someone made a XMR sidechain for that (Ddos-Nero)

You can implement it already. Just set up a pool, and ask each new IP to mine a share to your stratum port. But then it can be ddosed too.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> oh cool idea

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/srGWGulIEBSdoXbRHpcHbMde

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> whoops

"I prefer the metasploit founder strategy. Locate C2C server, set DNS on that ip, wait for the ddoser to get ddos " 8)

"then ddos torthen ddos tor" <= wtf

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> Pointing to xmrig-proxy would allow to handle more traffic right ?

<s​trawberry:monero.social> RandomX WebAssembly when?

<p​reland:monero.social> Lol

<p​reland:monero.social> It would have to work one of two ways:

<p​reland:monero.social> Either 1. The randomx is somehow ran serverside

<p​reland:monero.social> (Ok no that won’t work ignore that; there’s only one way to do it without throwing the “stop cryptomining me” warning”)

<p​reland:monero.social> 1.* make the randomx a part of the browser itself.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> preland: Time to put your money where your mouth is: monero.stackexchange.com/questions/…at-is-primo-private-monero-payments

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Pay for service = pay for rpc? monero-project/monero #8724 🙈

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero #8722 < more detailed

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero-project/monero #8722#issuecomment-1409050838

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> mooo even mentioned Primo

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I never really saw a market for this in wallets, but it does make sense for stuff like Primo imho.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> libera.monerologs.net/monero-dev/20230129#c197585

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i also agree with this statement. Tldr: remove from wallet, not from node

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmmmmmm

<p​reland:monero.social> So long as it doesn’t indiscriminately mine on people’s computers I don’t have an issue with that

<p​reland:monero.social> Although I’m pretty sure that is somewhat unrelated to what I was talking abt

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> taking into account the pr i liked above, it looks like primo was killed

<p​reland:monero.social> Though ig you could repurpose it….

<p​reland:monero.social> Oh, well that’s sad

<s​trawberry:monero.social> It's an extension, you can't repurpose it in that kind of way

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> s/liked/linked

<p​reland:monero.social> Although…..

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<p​reland:monero.social> Was it actually reliant on that rpc feature?

<p​reland:monero.social> From reading it looks like it was just for paying for access to Monero nodes

yes

Enjoying the chat? To continue reading please mine 500 credits to this address

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 10000 difficulty*

Tor using EquiX as an anti ddos is a great use case

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, but its free and cant be enforced

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And even if enforced, it adds cost to the visitor, but doesn't reward the host

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> moneropow would also be superior bcuz it doesn't rely on onions. Would work for clearnet too

<p​reland:monero.social> Very stupid question that I just thought of in the context of all this

<p​reland:monero.social> How do pools ensure that miners don’t just keep valid “hashes” to themselves

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you mean. Keeping valid pow for next blocks ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Each block template on which they build the pow proof depends on the current block. So any pow done at an earlier state is wasted. Unless pool is able see the future, tell me whenever you find one

<p​reland:monero.social> Can an individual miner recognize that they have mined a valid hash before sending it to the pool?

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yes, yes they can

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> but nothing guarantee they'll be the one having the reward tho

<p​reland:monero.social> The real world analog would be sending miners into a diamond mine, and the miners just filling their pockets with anything they find and leaving for the day “”empty-handed””

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> that would be very similar to solo mining so there isn't any particular advantage at mining in a pool and keeping your valid calculation for yourself

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> your playing solo over a pool node

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<p​reland:monero.social> And the reason you can’t mine the block solo instead of sending it to the pool is that you wouldn’t have the right block template info locally?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't remember what is the conditions for a valid PoW to be accepted by the network. I think its first to find it win but im not sure

<p​reland:monero.social> Yeah that’s my concern

<p​reland:monero.social> I guess there’s a very easy way to answer my question

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I thik its that

<p​reland:monero.social> What would stop a miner from mining for two pools at once?

<s​trawberry:monero.social> PPLNS solves this, miners have an incentive to submit the block or risk their old shares falling out of the window before someone else finds a block

<p​reland:monero.social> The answer to that would be the answer to it all

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> strawberry is right. I think you dont mine a complete PoW over mining stratum, just some parts of it or something like that

<s​trawberry:monero.social> The whole block header is hashed, which includes the coinbase tx which includes the pool's address

<p​reland:monero.social> Ok that would do it then

<s​trawberry:monero.social> You can't "keep good hashes for yourself" and use them to mine your own block, they're worthless if not tied to that address

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> oh make perfect sense

<s​trawberry:monero.social> and the pool will refuse to pay you for shares if you mine for your own address

<p​reland:monero.social> (And the reason that this ties into the “MoneroPoW” internet thing is that if it didn’t work like that, a person could premine hashes/reuse hashes to ddos a website, ruining the whole point)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ?

<s​trawberry:monero.social> The whole block header is hashed, which includes the coinbase tx which includes the pool's address (actually, pedantic correction, I believe block headers don't include merkle roots in monero, instead they go along with the header into a separate structure called the block hashing blob which is what gets repeatedly hashed)

<p​reland:monero.social> Ie if it was implemented incorrectly, an adversary running a botnet could initiate a PoW request for one of them and then give the “answer” to each botnet

<p​reland:monero.social> But if you ensure that each one gets a completely unique request then the issue isn’t an issue

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The pool software would check that the pow is duplicate shares are detected and rejected afaik

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> That the pow is valid*. Duplicate ..

<a​remor:matrix.org> What’s a good FOSS alternative to Twitter? I don’t like the Nostr protocol…

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> aremor why don't you like Nostr? Just curious.

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I use it even though its full of btc maxis

<s​hortwavesurfer2009:monero.social> I just talk about monero

binarybaron has updated their ccs proposal adding a Maker GUI / ASB deeply extensible, configurable and automatable repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/477#note_25561 , hours per week have been increased from 25 / week per dev to 35 / week per dev

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Be the change you want to see in the world. :-D

<e​lias:dfri.se> aremor Mastodon is a good FOSS alternative to Twitter

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Ahh, the good ole days of quitter on the Fediverse. People were quite active on those years ago.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Just full of dorky FOSS weeaboos and neckbearded tinkerers.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yeah you sense the fediverse community is kinda slightly stereotyped

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> All communities pretty much are. I find it stupid to write nostr off just because it is currently taken by the loud mouth maxis.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> It's a sound solution. You do not own your social graph on any SaaS. A corporation, a rogue report from a hater, a government can take your profile and your entire data, past history to the crapper. Nostr is unbannable.

<p​reland:monero.social> Assuming that each member is given a generic (ie not per-person unique) “gib share” request, that could work, but it would be incredibly unscalable.

<p​reland:monero.social> To check that the shares are duplicated, it would need a full record of all previous shares. It would also likely need a full record of previous shares from all other services (otherwise users could store their found shares from something they use often and “spend” them at other services they use less often). Congrats, you just discovered the blockchain.

<p​reland:monero.social> …only difference is that you now have to store data on the entire blockchain with every single web request, forever.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Each person would be sent a block template to mine on

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It would be like having xmrig-proxy sending jobs to different miners

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They arent sent different block templates, and shares that dont find blocks are useless. Xmrig-proxy doesnt even have to tell the miner what the real difficulty is, it checks the difficulty against the real job after receiving it

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<o​frnxmr:monero.social> bro, go spam somewhre else

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<p​reland:monero.social> Glowie alert

<a​remor:matrix.org> The design allows for relays to start applying pressure to users.

<a​remor:matrix.org> I guess I’ll revisit it

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Elaborate.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yea, in another room tho 🙃

<a​remor:matrix.org> What room?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> #monero or #monero-offtopic

<a​remor:matrix.org> The relays do not p2p gossip. And to follow a user you have to follow their relay…. Tying that user to the relay

<a​remor:matrix.org> They claim that you can easily jump from relay to relay but if people don’t know your new relay, they’ll lose track of you

<a​remor:matrix.org> Nostr has not met the potential that it has

<a​remor:matrix.org> All of that could have been solved with p2p gossiping but IMO the architects are idiots

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Do you know there's an actual relay implementation called gossip, right?

<a​remor:matrix.org> I said all this early on in its development. Now just like 4 months ago, They did a podcast recently on like Citadel Dispatch where the lead guy is finally acknowledging the problems

<a​remor:matrix.org> </rant>

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Ah, no. Gossip is the client, chorus is the node implementation. github.com/mikedilger/chorus

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> First time I hear of such a thing. I've never been forced to first add a relay to be able to follow someone.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Yeah you have to tack it on now but the same problem exists, followers have to subscribe to a relay that you push to. That’s lock-in.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Because most users are pushing to the same 5 relays. But that shouldn’t be a dependency.

<a​remor:matrix.org> It’s possible to run your own relay. But if you do, and push to only it, and tell no one, no one will ever see your posts. It’s broken.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Anyways, unbannable, immutable.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Those are nice. Could have been better.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Losing battle to talk to XMR people about nostr. 🤷‍♂️

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> When monerostr by aremor?

<a​remor:matrix.org> I was super pro-Nostr when it first started because I was believing the hype. Then I had to learn myself that it doesn’t gossip.

<a​remor:matrix.org> Bitcoin gossips. Monero gossips. smh they had so much potential

<a​remor:matrix.org> If I don’t find a FOSS alternative that I like, then it can be explored.

<m​mxxx:monero.social> scuttlebutt.nz

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What does any of this have to do with monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> and more specifically, what does it have to do with things done in the monero ecosystem, or done in/by a monero workgroup. Past, present or future.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> #monero-offtopic:monero.social

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Hey guys and Gals!

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> I have a question regarding a feature I think would be very important for the UX of monero namely Peer2Peer instant payment.

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> just like Visa or Mastercard do it to let you pay in physical stores but instead of the Bank giving out a verification to let you make a purchase...

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> You perform a range proof to demonstrate you have monero i.a liquidity plus a [cryptographic handle] so the receiver is able to claim the monero on his own without you waiting in the store for the blockchain to update and verify the transaction as legit.

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Imagine it being as easy as showing a QR in the Store and walking out.

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Is something like that possible?

<p​reland:monero.social> This sounds similar to an idea that I have for an instant in-person system

<p​reland:monero.social> My idea was basically that you’d have a “cold wallet” that would receive transaction data from a node (ie the cash register) via a memory-safe NFC protocol. It would get user confirmation of the transaction, would then generate the transaction, and send it to the node, and then the node would ofc place the transaction into mem_pool so it would get put on a block

<p​reland:monero.social> The only issue is the cold wallet….I want it to be as cheap but also as compact as a typical credit/debit card

<p​reland:monero.social> It would also need power, which is another issue ig

<p​reland:monero.social> I believe the reverse of the QR code idea is possible (store has QR code, you scan it, pay, happy etc.)

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Arn't there "card" cold wallets?

<p​reland:monero.social> The wallet would have to generate the transaction on-wallet

<p​reland:monero.social> That’s where the issue begins (and ends lol)

<p​reland:monero.social> It would also need some form of feedback so the user can make sure the vendor isn’t lying or has their thing messed up

<p​reland:monero.social> So it’s effectively a race to the bottom, to see what the minimal hardware/cost required to do both is(plus nfc, though it could just use USB lol)

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Can't this be done by a hot wallet in the smartphone too?

<p​reland:monero.social> Yes

<p​reland:monero.social> (Unless you use iPhone cuz of NFC lockdown [unless you are in the EU?])

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> QR over the ol trusted USB in a shop :'D

<p​reland:monero.social> If your idea works that would be pretty cool

<p​reland:monero.social> Though I do like my idea (assuming the wallet can be made to spec)

<s​trawberry:monero.social> hot take: payment channels solve this

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Like lighting network?

<s​trawberry:monero.social> yes

preland, Qi could solve power issue

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Isnt it a hurdle to establish something like that for a one time purchase?

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Extra cost or time recources

<s​trawberry:monero.social> yes, the idea is you set it up once in advance and future payments are cheaper and faster

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> gift cards work for this but merchant would know your full balance

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (i didnt real full discussion)

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Yeah your idea is cooler. I imagine Reverse QR you scan, verify that you put a transaction in the pool and the vendor lets you go after verifying that a pool recived the transaction order.

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> But maybe thats hogwash I wrote since I am not technical 🙇

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Thanks for the feedback though I mean it. I was curious if there was like something tangible holding this back from existing (aside from my inability)

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Plus u need a individual card for every merchant. So there cant be a seamless solution.

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> Though gift cards really give a lot of usability to monero. I am not complaining

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No, you can use the same card for any merchant

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you can even call it a "cashback" card that you can spend at any merchant that accepts xmr

<d​eandearouge:matrix.org> They have to be part oft the same [network] to claim the xmr from a [pool] that was Funded before by the user to issue the transactions?

COMIT swapper left a comment on binarybarons proposal, insightful as to why high markups might exist for atomic swaps repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/477#note_25575

<p​reland:monero.social> VThor has a point

:D

high markups for dirty dirty btc?

hmmmm