<s​iren:kernal.eu> But you already know this because this issue was raised here during your proposal. You refused a permissive license because that would have prevented you from going to movie awards. But that only benefited you. As a result your community funded movie to this day is not publicly accessible.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Not calling you anything here. I guess the people/person in charge of CCS saw marketing value so an exception was made. I just don't think this was fair nor it aligned with the culture (valuing freedom and privacy) within the community.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> But hey CCS doesn't have much to do with the community anyway :)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Core Crowdfunding syatem

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Didn't have the same ring to it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Doesnt haveno have there own ccs?

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Siren: I said the code itself. The only interaction between a file of code *and an external library* is the fact my file says `#include "other.h" ` somewhere in it. I can license my file MIT. The moment that is built with an external library? The joint product becomes GPL.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> The only argument possible is that my file's usage of the API defined in the external lib counts as being derivative of the external lib. Google v Oracle found that fair use.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Also, the object file from compiling my file (which isn't actually linked to the ext lib, see how I said "unlinked form") can be MIT licensed. Once that's statically or dynamically linked, yeah, sure, GPL applies. I'm aware of their policies there.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> The advantage to this is that someone can replace the GPL library with one which has an identical API. Doing so would produce a non-GPL joint product, without requesting your downstream project also relicense from GPL (as the downstream project itself would be MIT, solely compiled/distributed as GPL).

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I believe this applies and either way having your code licensed as MIT in the repository and shipping the binary with a GPL notice is very confusing for the user.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> No. Citing a file name doesn't apply.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> *doesn't cause the GPL to apply.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Again, APIs are (or at least can be with precedent) fair use per Google v Oracle.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> You're welcome to say it's confusing and not worthwhile. I'm saying it is possible and noting the implications of it.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Though also, NAL, NLA, so feel free to ignore me and go hire one to review this.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I don't see the use case and yeah

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> It allows creating a joint product which isn't GPL solely by replacing the GPL dependencies.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Ah you mean like having an interface that plugs with many libs that may or may not be GPL

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Basically an API

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> If I build a GPL app on top of GPL dependencies, replacing the GPL dependencies doesn't change the license distributed under.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> If I build a MIT app with GPL dependencies (binary licensed and distributed as GPL), then replacing the GPL dependencies produces an MIT app.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> this is presumably exactly what tor is doing re: their PoW hash?

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> tor is MIT yet can optionally be built with a GPL dep causing a GPL bin?

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> That's referring to the claims above that the PoW hash they use is GPL and they have an --enable-gpl flag in the build process for it.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> We were talking about proprietary binary releases

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Not sure why you're bringing this up

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Your answer was incomplete.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> In the case of Tor it makes sense. And yeah in that way it does not violate GPL.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> A project can have a more permissive license than its dependencies. Its the joint product which must respect all present license terms, some which may propagate to the contents of the entire product.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Beyond Tor as the example for dual-licensing (one for itself, one for its built form if including a GPL dep), your answer also wasn't comprehensive how BSD-2 apps can use BSD-3 dependencies without licensing themselves under the BSD-3 license. That's more of a nit with your answer than a complaint I'd raise in general though.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I honestly thought ut was better to not mention that detail as the core concept of copyleft itself wasn't understood

<s​iren:kernal.eu> > <@kayabanerve:monero.social> Your answer was incomplete.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I honestly thought it was better to not mention that detail as the core concept of copyleft itself wasn't understood

<s​iren:kernal.eu> This is unrelated to the case at hand and my answer is not meant to be the total documentation to how to pick and comply with all of these licenses clearly.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> principledFossAdvocate also had incorrect takes on the GPL license, yet they seem to be a troll. Rucknium said the software must be made GPL, where *offered under the GPL license* may be more accurate.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> So I'm sorry if you feel I was calling you out unfairly/specifically. I thought that message was incomplete in a list of incomplete/wrong messages I saw about licensing. I wanted to provide more details, and I did. I didn't provide more details on every other message due to them being trivial (such as a bs nit in yours I omitted), already covered by my reply to you, or by a troll.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Well the best way to learn about licensing is not to be spoonfed here, but rather the license text itself or other official documentation

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> My message above with other examples was just to be clear it wasn't personal at all.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> I'm unsure it is unrelated. I believe I saw the accusation the Haveno UI built by kewbit must be GPL as it has GPL deps, and that broke the CCS's rules on licensing.

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> Technically, the UI code could be permissively licensed, solely distributed under the GPL (AGPL?).

<k​ayabanerve:monero.social> That falls under a gray area regarding the rules and is probably worth discussing. However, given all of the other issues which seem to be present, I'm not calling for a debate on this at this time.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Hm no but there was a misunderstanding regarding the delivery of a milestone. I'm not sure if the project has GPL deps.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> If this is regarding the mention of "permissive license" in the policy, I agree. I'm pretty sure there were previous proposals with strong copyleft.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Probably should be reworded to "free software license" (keep in mind NOT just "open-source"). As well as an explicit requirement for [free content](en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_content) for creative works such as art.

siren: I see your point and would agree if the CCS had actually funded the creation of the film, but it didn’t. The movie already existed. It was for a marketing campaign and I provided receipts/ran it as transparently as possible.

What was open-source about Project Coral Reef for example? Or the monero sail, or any of the other marketing proposals? My movie is getting picked on because it’s an easy target, but there was nothing exceptional about that proposal.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> my "take" on the tor gpl flag was that i dont know and that i would avoid shipping pow until i do know. Which part was i trolling?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Kewbit's haveno _app_ is AGPLv3. Haveno dex is also AGPLv3

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Equi-x (tor pow) is GPLv3 iiuc

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I haven't seen you before, you nick seems like it was tailor-made to this situation so I'd guess it's an alt trying to stir drama up on this topic (though again, I may just not have seen you before), you seemed generally hostile, and sorry, I misattributed someone else's message to you. I just reread the transcript to find the message I was thinking of.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ofrnxmf

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> So sorry, I shouldn't have called you out as an example of someone I didn't comment on yet also thought had a inaccuracy (while trying to show Siren it wasn't possible).

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I changed my name playfully when jeffro made a comment about gpl being preferred by principled foss advocates

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> ... huh, the message I was thinking of was ofrnxmr's and you are in fact ofrnxmr:monero.social.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> That i am

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> ... so client bug, and I didn't misattribute originally due to the message displaying as sent by pFA back when I read it, or I did misattribute it accidentally yet happen to be right anyways.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> You claimed you can't build a proprietary work under the GPL. I would note it depends on the definition of proprietary.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There are companies which build and sell commercial GPL code.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> The customers are entitled to a copy of the source under the GPL. That doesn't prevent their commercialization of the code.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> goesnt gplv3 require all modifications be made public?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> No

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> GPLv3 requires users be allowed to request a copy of the software.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Derivatives must also be GPLv3 licensed.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> So if I fork X (GPL) into Y, Y must be offered under the GPL license. Users of Y are entitled to request a copy of the source code.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I would have no obligation to publicize my modifications and have no obligations to users of X however.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I can also charge to become a user of Y, and if a user distributes the code, terminate their user account (preventing access to future updates).

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There's a company which famously sells patches to the Linux kernel.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> u sure? (i'm not). I'm under the impression that ^^ is the case for v2, but not v3

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> They're dicks who have bragged about patching CVEs prior to their independent finding/filing. They keep vulnerabilities private in order to maintain a reason for people to pay them.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Pretty sure. Since the example I'm thinking of is Linux, this may be a v2 oddity? Again, NAL, NLA

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Linux is v2

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Also, caveats on my end GPL3 can have (always has?) compatibility carve-outs for otherwise acceptable licenses.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Also, you didn't originally claim GPLv3 doesn't allow proprietary derivative. You claimed GPL doesn't.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I may be wrong for saying this is also true for GPL3, but we have an example for GPL2 which is one of the GPLs :p

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> And yes, I know Linux is v2, which is why I'm saying my example justifies v2 yet doesn't justify v3

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'll pull up the license text now

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> > You may charge any price or no price for each copy that you convey, and you may offer support or warranty protection for a fee.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It does allow charging a price for conveyance of a copy.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Price doesnt make it proprietary

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> "free doesn't mean free beer"

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> And then section 5 on modifications requires notice, and the modified software be under the same license allowing anyone _with a copy_ to request access to the code.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I understand what free means in FOSS. I'm noting even though the code is free to modify to distribute, in practice, it can still be successfully commercialized.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> which means that if the software is distributed, the source must be made available to the recipients (?)

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> The commercialization policies also don't make it free to distribute,

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Distribution would presumably come with termination of the subscription

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I dont think i implied that it couldn't be

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Though again, that's about the cost of distribution, not about the legal ability.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> my statement was that MIT allows you to never release the code (which i could be wrong about)

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I thought your answer was incomplete to that angle. That's all I was chiming in with.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> whereas bitmain would "have to" release the code running the riscv x5 miner

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (xmrig is gpl)

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I didn't say this originally for a variety of reasons, including how this nit falls under 'incomplete'. I only went over my full list of nits with the above conversation as I truly didn't want to make Siren feel singled out. I was concerned they did feel that way.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> But that has also put me in the position of justifying my nits to everyone when I on purposely chose not to speak my nits originally due to how nitty they were :/

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Were all ooo. Siren is never alone 🧘‍♀️

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You have nits?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> There is shampoo for that

<3​21bob321:monero.social> github.com/ssddanbrown/Open-Source-Confusion-Cases

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You might end up on here

<0​xfffc:monero.social> XMR community, any suggestion for laptop for a dev who wants to work on XMR ( sometimes even on the move ) ?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yup

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> qubes-os.org/hcl/#hardware-laptops

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Enjoy

<0​xfffc:monero.social> M4 is pretty fast. Might worth the wait. techradar.com/computing/apples-m4-m…-imminent-launch-in-the-coming-days Though I am not sure about getting into apple ecosystem!

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> because you said working on XMR I figured there is no compromise at on security but Mac are also pretty secure

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I got an M2 they are decent

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Yes, that is the default plan. Though for dev workstation/laptop I prefer it to be as fast as possible.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I’m sure m4 will be blazing

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Learn flutter

<0​xfffc:monero.social> considering the recent fiasco from Intel! I don't know it is wise to buy i7/i9 at all.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> ?

<0​xfffc:monero.social> github.com/open-quantum-safe/liboqs

<s​iren:kernal.eu> geonic: the sail didn't result in a new creative work, it slapped assets that were already public domain/free on a piece of kevlar. Coral reef was about offering consultations (nothing to open source). They offered consultations for open source software integrating their cheap gateway. github.com/GloBee-Official. Anyone could view the sail pictures and benefit from stores <clipped message>

<s​iren:kernal.eu> accepting Monero. These two proposals were direct ads for Monero. So, your proposal was exceptional. CCS paid for an ad in a movie that they cannot watch and perhaps it funded more marketing material for your movie but not for Monero. There were rejected proposals about integrating Monero into proprietary software by for-profit companies. Your proposal resembles those but was appr<clipped message>

<s​iren:kernal.eu> oved.

Coral Reef wasn't consultations. It was a music sales platform

At least, that's how i understand it. I am not sure if the code for it was released (perhaps it was)

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: no, there's a form to sign up for consultations and they list globee integrations. And there's no way to buy music on that website, it only links to other websites that once accepted xmr

Yeah, that was not how it started though

You think the community funded a consultation company?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: no, community paid for a campaign of some sorts

They funded a site/platform for music sales. I bought music from it

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Then it makes this proposal even more useless

Well, it sold music

For xmr

But i don't see any code

That's the point

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: check the GitHub link I sent

It didn't even list permissively licenced music, as far as i remember

<s​iren:kernal.eu> The payment processer used is Globee

I know Globee

<s​iren:kernal.eu> It doesn't matter if it sold proprietary music

The CCS wasn't for Globee. That was/is a separate company

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Well it uses FOSS plugins of Globee

Sure, to process the payments

But the music sales platform was a core deliverable.

Perhaps the Globee infra was as well, i can't remember to be honest

You'd have to check the original CCS/FFS

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I don't see a music sales platform anywhere and I only see outgoing links to other sites. I don't think Globee infra (perhaps the FOSS plugins was) was part of it.

I know. It's gone

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I don't see a music sales platform anywhere and I only see outgoing links to other sites. I don't think Globee infra (perhaps the FOSS plugins were) was part of it.

But it was there

You can either believe me or not, it's totally up to you!

But i definitely bought music from it

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I personally don't like any of these marketing proposals.

Ive never tested the listed stores. Alot of outdated info there which doesnt give me hope projectcoralreef.com

I don't think it's fair to call project coral reef a marketing proposal

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I've checked those stores about a year ago actually and none accept Monero anymore. Don't bother.

It was a music sales platform

I can say it again, if you want?

"Due to the private nature of Monero, we are not able to offer any refunds" too private for refunds

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: There goes another exception to the policy then. You can repeat yourself as much as you want. I don't see marketing value in it myself but geonic categorizes it as that so.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> plowsof: we were too lazy to store a refund address in our backend and an endpoint to initiate a transfer 🚀

<s​iren:kernal.eu> (protip: use moneropay)

I don't think geonic classifies coral reef as marketing. There is a full stop between his sentences.

But maybe he does, i shouldn't speak for him.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> You should read the Locha Mesh one. 😂😂

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> We paid them to write documentation for XMR, documentation. No software deliverable or actual XMR support for the devices at all.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> The premise was that the project was big in the bitcoin community so we'd get eyes on us in exchange. 🤣

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> The worst part of the story is that the project was abandoned and just few dozen devices were actually shipped. None with XMR support.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> The all-time best was that Monero Tesla... Dear lord.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: what category coral reef falls under is irrelevant

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Cancer

Very true. Only the fact that the music platform was not open source (as i understand it). Though, to be honest Globee might have been a deliverable, and that was (as i understand it).

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> One core team member was in favor. 😂

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/randybrito-locha-mesh.html

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> 150 XMR for documentation, no actionable deliverables.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Merged, funded and paid. Lol.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I mean CCS history is full of terrible proposals and literal corruption. It's not surprising that there is more lol.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> That's why when a dwarf gets funded to go to ceremonies and awards you shouldn't feel bad.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Monero to the Oscars!

I see way more value in the movie than some of the other proposals, personally

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Shit, XMR doesn't even appear on the film at all.

But others have different view, and that's ok too

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> There's one single scene of a bullshit coin with the XMR logo somewhere in the credits.

It's easy to flame war all the time, but at some point people grow up

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Still, that doesn't make it right. We should have followed standard FOSS marketing strategies. Maybe people wouldn't have viewed us as cringe cryptobros in open source.

Follow standard FOSS marketing strategies? Oh that sounds a HOOT

God bless us

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Who views us as cringe cryptobros in open source? 🤔

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I don't care because I don't donate anymore, and people in my close circle don't anymore either. It's only sad observing this from outside.

I read the other day that crypto-bros are one of the most detested social groups these days. I think second only to the alt-right.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Go to FOSDEM or other conferences. I was with a friend on weed who asked every single stand (probably about 30) about Monero. Never had a positive reaction.

siren: you obviously do care, as you are talking about it

<s​iren:kernal.eu> It was questions like "would you accept XMR for donations" or "wanna integrate?"

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Europeans? Check.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> FOSS neckbeards? Check.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> What did you expect?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> At DEFCON it was the laughing stock village, everyone was shit talking it into oblivion.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> There's loads of misconceptions and misguided criticism, not going to fix that, unfortunately.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: I only care about Monero's sustainability as a project.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Europeans tend to be horrid statists... I'd expect them to stray more into the drug, fraud, crime digital currency camp.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Americans tend to lean more into the... that shit is fake, snake oil, can't be true, it's not anonymous camp.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Why would I want to accept money that is used to avoid paying taxes? Who's gonna pave the roads???

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> :)

Nobody would pave the roads is the answer!

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Honestly, if all that money was spent in marketing Monero the right way by participating in these cons etc. (you know, alongside normal non-crypto projects) I don't think it would be this bad. CCS is pushed as something "official" and it being a dumpster fire is not good.

There ain't nobody paving the country roads where i live, i tell you that!

<s​iren:kernal.eu> You advertise Monero as a "privacy respecting, low fee, fast payment technology" to others then.

siren: sure you already ostracised the one proper contact we have for Defcon

<s​iren:kernal.eu> It's really not that hard

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Oh no no no no, count me out on that endeavor. I'm not convincing FLOSS neckbeards or infosec people about monero. Pass.

Previously we made Monero themed badges for communities/villages there. Not any more that's for sure

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Statists can keep being statists, hackers can keep being hackers. Someone else's job.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Yeah, made by the guy who simply dropped radio silent once the bridge to keep sucking money went dry...

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Surprise.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: I wouldn't call it proper, I think I might know who you're talking about but I don't remember commenting about defcon anywhere. And no I did not ostracize anyone.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Oh, according to his version you 'ostracized' him. 🤣

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> It's 2024 and we only got bullshit paper wallets and Kastelo? Fine, thank you.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Another one that got paid to go touring. Lol.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> You don't need badges or wallets. Grab a bunch of stickers or other basic merch. What's more important is talking to others.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> You don't need badges or wallets. Grab a bunch of stickers or other basic merch. What's more important is talking to others.

who is gonna pay for the talking tours, siren?

Rotten says that's not allowed

God forbid what ofrnxmr will say about the plan

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Then why are you directing this question at me? I am working towards getting EU to fund TE as a youth project.

Cause you mentioned talking!

<s​iren:kernal.eu> And where did you read that I said it's not allowed?

And merch. Last i saw, there was zero merch at MoneroKon (unless i am mistaken?) everyone talked about how easy it was to get, and then there was hardly any

But wait, there was stickers!!

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Damn people showing words in my mouth today lol

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Damn people shoving words in my mouth today lol

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: you're mistaken in that case

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I'm drinking from it rn

Monero, stickering it's way to mainstream one telephone pole at a time

<s​iren:kernal.eu> And I came to the con very late on all the days 🚀

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I left my goodies bag on Cake's table for 5 minutes, when I came back, it was gone. 😂

I'll give a personal example. I used to get paid to talk at conferences. We used to get quite a few invites, diego, myself, others, etc. if that happened now, and i put up a CCS for the costs it would get shot down in an instant. The result? Nobody is talking at ANY conferences about Monero

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Damn thieves.

And by paid, i mean costs, not a fee.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: I can't comment about a hypothetical proposal. Maybe it's a reputation problem or the costs are unreasonable.

It's cause the gallery sees a different play and isn't opening any other window

That's the reason

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I'd go for free to EU based cons if I had the time and someone said "I got accepted to operate a stand for Monero and I need volunteers". Unfortunately I have full-time studies. Travel and accommodation is cheap and conferences are mostly free.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Like how much do you think you would get cancelled trying to get reimbursed actually? 300 EUR for tickets, hotel for a few days and some food?

Flights and accomodation, and depending on whether there was any merch/materials required. Usually ran at about 1000 (depending on location). Though i remember giving out some XMR as well, so that was funded. That kinda worked, kinda didn't.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/306

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/274

<s​iren:kernal.eu> About paying for talking hours, I know about other FOSS orgs and also non-software related non-profits that pay for volunteers' travel+food+accomodation, however they don't pay for any working hours. By working hours I mean stuff like effort spent in an event organization, talking hours, stand operation etc. Paying for talking hours is unusual.

I didn't get paid for working hours

And never asked

I would have had to ask for 8 hour work days in that instance

This was also another one

The paper wallets i had for these were really nice, to be honest. Again, they sort of worked, sort of didn't

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: €1700 with materials and in Oslo is not unreasonable

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Paper wallets are junk tbh. I liked last year's stickers, cups, t-shirts, magnets and bottle openers. I use all of these items.

Yes, i know it's not. That's not the issue. The issue is with the way we (all of us, me included) gatekeep efforts like this. Personally, i would be extremely wary of putting up a CCS of this type, as I wouldn't want the hassle of dealing with the gallery. It means that these sorts of events aren't getting attended and Monero isn't getting exposure at any of them, whether they are FOSS events, hacking events , DLT

events, etc. We have zero exposure outside of our own bubble at the moment.

siren: was all that merch at MoneroKon 2024? I thought there was only t-shirts?

Or did other people/projects bring merch?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> She said last year's...

And to be honest merch ain't gonna change the wider Monero is bad narrative

rotten: fair enough

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Nothing will. Bad PR is good PR.

Then we need more boats

And movies

And a monero bubble car

Rotten, we can pay you to drive around the US

You can sleep in the boot

we'll call it the rotten traveling bubble

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: for €1700 can ship few volunteers with stickers only from mb's shop to central EU cons (also ask some volunteer to bring cheap local candy)

siren: 1700 for stickers?

Go for it!

<s​iren:kernal.eu> No need for merch. In fact most FOSS stands are just loudmouths and some stickers.

I think that's a woeful idea, but if you want to do it, go for it

<s​iren:kernal.eu> 1700 for cheap hostel for more people, cheap food and some stickers

Plus, we can make monerobull richer along the way

siren: sure! Go for it!

<m​onerobull:monero.social> what

It was a joke

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Monero bubble car lol.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Rotten traveling bubble. 🤣

Ok ok, you can have a bus

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I know. I'm laughing. 😂😂😂

Those new VW campers would look good in orange

We could even flip the logo at the front

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: You don't sound genuine and your go for it reeks of irony but 1700 for a few people with hostel and flixbus is possible in central EU.

<m​onerobull:monero.social> midipoet you should have bought up the 5 star hotel for 2000€ but my monerokon expenses are like 200€

siren: i am being genuine

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I'll get a beater, cover it all with big Monero logos like the people who get paid for promoting companies in their daily use vehicles and charge the community about 10k a month for say... 4-5 hours of driving, per day. All over the US.

I am telling you to do a CCS

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Easy deal.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Full send midi!

But nobody does, and instead we shout about marketing and merch

rotten: i actually really like that idea

But you'd have to do vlogs along the way

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: we won't need CCS if we make it into Erasmus+

Eurasmus+ is really competitive

If you want a proposal reviewer let me know

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Or TE starts accepting donations for these activities outside of CCS

Do you have a consortium?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: I don't understand what you're talking about. Here is what I mean erasmus-plus.ec.europa.eu/opportuni…ies/opportunities-for-organisations

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Registering our org and informing the Czech body about key action 1

<s​iren:kernal.eu> You should probably join the MoneroKon room

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Probably join #monerokon on libera. midipoet

siren: i work with EU funding every day. You'll need a few things (including a proposal, project and consortium) to get Eurasmus+ funding.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Cool. And what is your opinion on TE participating in Erasmus+ and funding stands and volunteer/speaker expenses to a degree or fully? Passable? I got the idea recently after participating in a youth project.

Yeah, maybe. But as i said Eurasmus+ is really competitive. You'll need a consortium

<s​iren:kernal.eu> wikis.ec.europa.eu/display/NAITDOC/Consortium+in+projects

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Is it really a must that we team up with another org?

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Ah well it's the sending organisation

I mean, it depends on the specific funding call/topic, but one of the core principles of European funding is integration and collaboration across Member States, and across stakeholder groups (universities, SMEs, multinationals, research orgs, charities, public bodies, NGOs, etc)

<s​iren:kernal.eu> midipoet: do you have suggestions for exactly what programs or funding calls to apply?

Honestly, it depends on what you want to do

Try some keywords, maybee

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Also has anyone tried to apply for a stand at FOSDEM already? pretalx.fosdem.org/fosdem-2025-call-for-stands/cfp

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I'm certainly going there so I can be in rotation for the stand

<s​iren:kernal.eu> If not I'll apply tonight for shits and gigs. Worst case scenario there will be 3 volunteers and some stickers.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Doubt, trying to think who would be the man for the job. You should consider asking MO to post an ANN for it... Maybe you fish that someone.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> That would be cool.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Eh anyone would do. Stand operations there are pretty laid back.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> We know anyone would do. It's not about that, it's about who *will* do it... therein lies the problem, my friend.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Yeah I'll definitely tell if I apply and it gets accepted. I always shoot a message for a small meetup when I go to FOSDEM and there are always people from the community so it shouldn't be a problem actually.

<d​m4you:matrix.org> dl.acm.org/doi/10.1145/3589335.3651487

<d​m4you:matrix.org> Has anyone read this paper?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes its been a while

<midipoet> I don't think it's fair to call project coral reef a marketing proposal <<>> it was marketed as a marketing proposal :D

fair enough, i stand corrected

"We used to have badges!!"

Reality: still went to defcon, still sold badges

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Yeah, you seem to be one of those special kids, who ride on the short bus to school.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ROFL

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Nah, that's not how shit works.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> That _is_ indeed how shit works

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.to/#/!WzzKmkfUkXPHFERgvm:mat…cial&via=matrix.org&via=libera.chat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Theres no way anyone can possibly _require_ you to sync your local working branches to an online git repo unless you are a) collecting a milestone b) distributing a binary

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Imagine for once I agree with ofrnxmr. While obviously its stupid to push commits and say: *QUICK QUCIK I NEED THE MONEY IN NEXT TWO MINUTES* is stupid, It's also stupid to force the person to disclose a code that could potentially be *"stolen"* (due to license) and potentially not being paid in return (if something happens midway completing the milestone, like luigi accidentally <clipped messa

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> boiled the wallet disk for its pasta or something).

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And potentially be horribly broken or dangerously implemented

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> More like: We are our enemy.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Isn't it a normal workflow to push progress made?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Isn't it an advantage, to get other eyes on code early, to catch bad shit?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> We are talking about a community funded project. Doesn't the community have a right to review progress, out side of milestones?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I can see that logic too

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nobody has a right to view my boilerplate/template work that i'm using to test the code, or to my 14 broken local branches that i rewrite and force push every 16mins

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> payouts dont happen immediately, community has time to view/review the submitted work

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you are over exaggerating on the push very 16 mins but one could argue that if you shouldn't push unstable/boilerplate code to remote in the first place. But its really just a displacement of the issue.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thyat you postpone remote push every now and then and up to milestone really doesn't change a thing

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> and the community will may catch bad things in between but maybe you have already fixed it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Or may have it totally broken until you submit the milestone

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ofrnxmr: milestone reviewer are supposed to check for that and emit an opinion

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Code not intended for production does not need to be released at all

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Pushing a PR is the same thing. You don't have to push every commit. You can work locally, squash, then push.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> requiring ppl to push drafts is nonsensical

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If ppl want to, thats fine. But nobody should have to share a public ledger of their mistakes

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> ofrnxmr: did you tell tobtoht to remove arm32 bit support huh?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> huh? ofrnxmr = nahuhh? checks out

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I didnt tell him to, i said it was broken yrs ago and that i dont have time to check atm

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> And that's why peps make feature branches, push them and request review from smart people.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Imagine if someone pushed a `release-v0.18.5.1` together with a demand to be paid 3 years of work now.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Arm32 android* was broken, never tried arm32 linux

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sound reasoning

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> unfortunately im deaf

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> checkmates

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> yeah that thing

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> plz don't do that

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> plz

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> as all cake, stack, xmruw, and possibly others would have to manually revert that change to still work on 32bit android phones

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Does it work? Again, i didn't request its removal, i cant even confirm if it works/doesnt. And "not working" was specific to monerod

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Fighting with arm32 linux VM right now. not much success yet.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Nobody is asking to push your failures. That's not progress, it's just you learning on the job.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Push relevant progress.

<m​rcyjanek0:matrix.org> can't speak about monerod / binaries - but wallet_api target works just fine

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And how do you know i'm having sny progress until i push ..?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This is an entirely different situation.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> were not talking about work on monero-project repos, were taking about solo projects like haveno app, soloptxmr, walletsdk, monero-lws.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero _has_ to be merged via pull requests. There is no one forcing anyone to to sync their repos before that make a PR

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And i assume most devs have 10x more local branches than remote, and delete their remote branches post merge

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> An example being the dynamic block sync size - there are local branches that tested increasing the max block sync size to 2048, tested build and unworking

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> ofrnxmr: Ah, you get my point. Push relevant progress, and keep your failures to yourself.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Glad you mentioned that project. Have you noticed the amount of issues and PR's spamming mail inboxes daily?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Why woulda we push that ?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Commitd and force pushes, yes. Very spammy

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> (to WIP prs)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yes i get your point, but it also doesnt change that (without a keylogger) you have no way to prove that there is safe work to share

<0​xfffc:monero.social> gcc.gnu.org/pipermail/gcc/2024-October/244999.html

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> An example for the haveno app, is that it is literally still requiring an unfinished fork of the dex to interact with. The comm protocol is unfinished. Sharing the source could cause loss of funds, might have debug tracking, etcetc.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> you cant force ppl to share work that isnt ready for review

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> What? Keyloggers and no WIP?

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I try to be more peticular, when it comes to pushing to a public repo.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Gcc created github like workflows

<0​xfffc:monero.social> ( in the middle of your discussion. That was a news :)) )

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> CCS = community crowdfunding system, not "community owns this software and employs this dev"

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> devs are unemployed and the contract is that they deliver milestones inline with foss licensing.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I said previously (i think) that the only reasonable request for source code outside of a milestone, is if a project seems dead. Wallet sdk has been 5 months without a commit

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Iirc, the ccs was supposed to be under 5 months in total.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> With the expectation that they complete all milestones, delivering what they promised in the original contract.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The current milestone system does nothing to ensure that the ccs is completed, and we actively discourage "retroactive" works (delivering a completed product all at once). We instead opt to payout milestones for incomplete work

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Note, i personally am all for retroactive / "paid in full at completion" ccs'

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> No shit 😆

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Others are against it.x

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> How do you feel about paying before any work have been done?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Depends on the circumstances

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I partial prepaid for bch atomic swaps to good effect.

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> Who paid?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I did, out of basicswap ccs prepayment

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> I'm done with this. Going back to minding my own shit.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> basicswap/basicswap #124

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The bounty funded protocol for xmr<>bch atomic swaps should have a functional, user friendly interface live within the next 1-2 weeks

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ok ok but what about the halloween logo for monero? This PR do not resolve the need for a halloween logo!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> @room, react with a thumbs up or say ` bat ` in chat if you want a halloween logo on the website. The bat shall win!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> There are coordinated haters in the chat. This a harassment campaign against a legitimate feature request made by an honest user. hold on I need to make a tweet post about it and report you to the police.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> dm4you: Yes. See the notes for comments and links to a discussion: moneroresearch.info/index.php?actio…n=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=218

Is halloween inclusive

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Always have been

<r​ucknium:monero.social> It wouldn't be a true discussion of open source licenses if I didn't end more confused than when it began 🥲

Our north korean audience might be confused

<r​ucknium:monero.social> I find this license compatibility flowchart useful. I don't know how accurate it is: dwheeler.com/essays/floss-license-slide.html

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Thx for sharing very useful

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> who is r/monero reddit mod btw? how can we get the XMR Contributor badge

<a​remor:matrix.org> monerobull:

<a​remor:matrix.org> Damn always mention the wrong one monerobull

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thx aremor

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Both is good

<m​onerobull:monero.social> I get pinged for both

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Still on licences… plowsof where is our resident licence person

<midipoet> I don't think geonic classifies coral reef as marketing. <= I do. The community paid $400k for integration into these music stores, which were in all likelihood run by Naveen Jain, fluffy's partner in Tari. tarilabs.com/about

Naveen and the Sparkart team went on to run all online marketing efforts for Linkin Park [...] and then did the same for The Killers, Bon Jovi, Carrie Underwood, Slipknot, Tim McGraw, Lil Wayne, and dozens more.

Shortly after, Tari was announced. I'd wager that the integration itself cost nothing, and $400k was seed funding for Tari. Maybe $5-$10k in expenses for PR.

And we're no longer to be found on these stores. OTOH Monero will remain in my movie and I showed exactly how I spent the money. All for less than 4% of what PCR cost.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> 😂

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Not only does he accuse fp of pocketing 400k! He also claims his proposal was far more transparent and that his bullshit film is better!

I don't remember seeing a report of how the $400k was actually spent. Do you dipshit?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I just find very laughable anyone would think he has the need for pocketing 400k.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> But then you take it the extra mile and compare your bullshit nonsensical "film" to coral reef. 🤣

Bro, my film exists and will continue to exist. Coral Reef doesn't. That's the comparison I made. Yet again you have nothing to add to the conversation.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Paying a dwarf to go around to awards for an already produced movie that doesn't even mention monero once is better than having, even if temporarily, mainstream bands and music sites, accept XMR.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Make it make sense.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Your absolutely best-selling nobody 4'11 garden gnome, George "geonic" Nicholas goes on movies awards tour on XMR community dime! 😎

Fetish for dwarfs

i dont even think rotten realized just how often he drools in public over short fantasies

Havent you met geonic IRL? Is he 4'11?? Lol. Rotten's PH search history is probably interesting

rottenwheel: none of the money went to my travel or to festivals. it went for an Oscar campaign and I provided receipts. keep spreading lies though. repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/371#note_25187

ofrnxmr: do I look 4'11 to you? imdb.com/name/nm11077440 :D not that there's anything wrong with being short

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> 😂😂

a few months ago my movie wasn't going to be noticed by anyone and was a failure... now at least you acknowledge it's winning awards. buffoon :)

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> > Of course, this doesn't include festival submissions, which amounted to over $7000 (link), travel, marketing materials, etc.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> *Travel*.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Braindead.

yes dumbass. do you know what "doesn't include" means?

it means that I came out of my own pocket for those

Geonic, its not me that fantasized about short ppl. Maybe you look short to rotten

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Yes, that you didn't put it in there, but still spent the money on that.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Enough of your autism. Fuck off and have a nice day.

ofrnxmr: I met rotten once in a Vegas bar. went to introduce myself and he ran away. avoided me for the rest of the night like I had abused him as a child

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Why would I want to talk to you in person at all?

Did you abuse him as a child tho? Metoo

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> What is there to talk to you about?

You could call him a midget dwarf to his face

I just wanted to see if you would say some of the shit you're saying here to my face

you failed that test

but very brave behind the keyboard :)

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Omg!

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> First he tells me not to run away next time I see him in person and now this!

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> So alpha and strong!

so maybe dont run from dwarves ?

sucks being a coward

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I see my fan #1 is still talking to a wall. 🤣

come to monerotopia, maybe you'll do better this time

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I simply don't find any value in interacting with you in person. Say whatever helps you sleep at night, film director.

rotten is soft like jello

I'd sincerely appreciate it if you didn't interact with me online either

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> You are posting in a public channel. Deal with it or create your own safe space with rainbows and unicorns.

the internet act is hilarious. Rotten cant even act tough with a voice note. Super wimp

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> He is obsessed. Just look at him.

You begged me to call you like 10x

And when we spoke over voice notes, you tucked tai

Tail*

You literally asked me to attack geonic on your behalf because he called you deplorable

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> 🤣🤣🤣🤣

You laugh like i cant post the screenshots 🤡

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> 😂😂😂😂

rotten slid into my DM's to apologize for being a bitch over the years when he was still trying to redeem himself. I said it's fine, done. then he asked *me* to apologize, which I didn't do of course. 🥹 so he keeps vomiting uncontrollably every time he sees my handle

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Nope, nope.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> geonic you literally said np, no hard feels, welcome back.

exactly

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Next time you interacted with me publicly, you flipped it back and were an ass to me.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Talk about being a little bitch...

I too can post the screenshots buddy

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Do whatever you want, loot of morons. Idgaf.

do you want me to forgive you publicly? you're forgiven

what else do you want?

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Make a whole public album on Google Drive with screenshots if that wets your panties.

<r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Lmfao, sure, that's exactly what I want. Sissy.

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What does sissy mean? Is like like "sister"?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > A sissy is a biological male; who acts really feminine, slutty, horny, also really bimbo like, etc. They tend to be really submissive but not all of the time.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Baby

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> weird someone in this chat saying something very controversial.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> deja vu situation

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Sissy boy ^

I don't want to have to start calling people cuntbags again

But maybe that's the only word that will trigger any fucking fingering in here

<3​21bob321:monero.social> We dont call people lady parts. We are inclusive and esg compliant

How many people do we need on a payroll before we are all able to move on from the past and act like adults? Three? Four? Fuck it, let's make it five cause there a bunch of fucking cuntbags over here.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Literally the realist shit someone said today

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Word

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> And I’ve been watching you lot talk shit all day

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Who?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> At least 3 people spewing shit breaking up what could be decent conversations

<3​21bob321:monero.social> We are inclusive, so thats what you get all types

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> And further bullying on me too from @TrasherDK , literally never heard of this guy and I’m pretty sure he doesn’t know the context of my issue

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> We’re this fucking neurodivergent mess

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> rottenwheel: also, add me back, stop being a wimp, you had some public digs at me so I retaliated too, couldn’t handle it?

<a​remor:matrix.org> Geonic where can we view the movie?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> This was the 400k thing from earlier

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> My css is like 5% of that value lol

pm me on IRC

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no geonic

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i won't

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> stop harassing me with your 90% discount on fridges

was talking to aremor :p

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> share it with me to pls

sure. are you on IRC? also don't know if you saw my message in -community-dev

"Monero: home of the neurodivergent mess"

rotten is on cake's payroll and has 2 ccs's running afaik. apparently doesn't help.

^ in response to <midipoet> How many people do we need on a payroll before we are all able to move on from the past and act like adults?

the usual suspects I see :)

monero was going to share the profits from coral reef

it would help fund development

still waiting on any financial reports

also, I have seen no dwarfs

how big a CCS can I open to cover my car in a montero logo?

and how do I do that w/o attracting attention ?

Coral reef is now dead i think

At least it's dead for me

maybe we can just get a stake in Tari instead

nioc: think custom wraps are around 2k

fiat, not xmr

yes Jim, it's ded

worth more than my car :D

m-relay bridge has left -docs Datahoarder, is everything ok?

custom wrap is worth more

if you where wondering why it was peaceful, it's irc only atm

plowsof: are we in -docs now?

there's 33 xmr left from Outreach's last CCS. should be enough for a wrap

seems relay is back now

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> geonic genoic geonic geonic geonic geonic

yes

" how big a CCS can I open to cover my car in a montero logo?" <- start to get paranoid. "Monero: home of the neurodivergent mess"

<s​iren:kernal.eu> #DefundSyntheticBird

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> the so called neurodivergent people when I told them about bias blind spot

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> the self-proclamed neurodivergent people when I told them about bias blind spot

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> bro thx for the support you can make a donation to my campaign #StOpHaRaSSinGZeBirB

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Rottenwheel is tall man like Erdogan 🇹🇷🇹🇷💪

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Siren turk confirmed

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Jokes on you Turks don't have internet access rn

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> what

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> why is that

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> NO SIREN

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> DONT QUIT MATRIX YET

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> monerobull monerobull gingeropolous plowsof plowsof please someone approve my reddit post I'm literally dying I'm addicted to reddit and its becoming harder and harder not having my karma in my vein right now

send the link before its too late

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1gaiuh…the_latest_information_about_monero

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> approved

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you are both sweet

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thx you very much for living

<s​iren:kernal.eu> We made it Reddit!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Plowsof is dead inside

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> After all, all we needed was perfectly legal residential proxy.

<s​iren:kernal.eu> God bless Brazilian children

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Mbll normally has finger on pulse with reddit posts

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> This just goes to show how new you are to this space 😴

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> If not agreeing to your bullshit is bullying, fine, I'm a bully 😆

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Playing the victim always works☹️