<p​reland:monero.social> Since I’m going to miss the meeting tomorrow, I just wanted to make this known:

<p​reland:monero.social> If kewbit releases *anything that would disprove this screenshot’s validity, then we need to have a very serious conversation, because someone has been attempting to harm his reputation*. The screenshot is from a short-lived dm conversation I had with someone who seemed to be kewbit (though they were very evasive on this point) before they got pissed at me and mass deleted every<clipped message>

<p​reland:monero.social> thing (I have screenshots of the whole conversation and will release them if it is deemed relevant).

<p​reland:monero.social> If kewbit doesn’t release anything, then it is very possible that this screenshot is as close to an honest explanation of his actions as we will ever get. But if he releases something that disproves it….then someone might’ve been attempting to frame him.

<p​reland:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/mPbyJMQHgBkplXcehxbOyreT

<p​reland:monero.social> (This statement is directed to whoever I was talking to, and won’t make sense to anyone unless I end up widely releasing the whole conversation)

<p​reland:monero.social> The book would’ve been kept closed if you didn’t delete everything without even saying anything.

foss it or toss it

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> [@syntheticbird:monero.social](https://matrix.to/#/@syntheticbird:monero.social) redlib.zaggy.nl/r/Monero/s/XYBxAi25ZR

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the spammer used a VERY specific term to describe how he feels about the ccs

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> he said it is "decomposing him". i dont remember if kewbit had said that in public or in DM but if it was in DM, he 100% is the spammer

<m​ister:monero.social> It's quite plausible considering kewbits blogposts are all (co)written with gpt. A few weeks ago, I had never heard of him so I started reading some of his articles. It left a bad taste in my mouth since they were all inconsistent, vague and written with the use of language models.

<m​ister:monero.social> A possible theory is that his intentions are/(were) sincere, but that he simply is incompetent in terms of creating good software for the community.

<m​ister:monero.social> I think it's important that potential Haveno clients or front ends are very secure and have a good code base. Maybe we should temporarily put this project on hold instead of burning even more of the community fund into projects that barely get off the drawing board.

<p​reland:monero.social> Interestingly enough, I decided to use zerogpt on his most recent ccs update post-controversy and it didn’t get triggered (though he could’ve used a humanizer ig)

<p​reland:monero.social> Interesting find; let me look through the msgs and see if it’s mentioned

<p​reland:monero.social> Kewbit has 14 hours to get his affairs in order; if it isn’t done by then…

<p​reland:monero.social> I would like to clear something up though that’s been at the back of my mind: has anyone else been working on a multi-platform app similar to what kewbit is claiming to do?

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Nope, at least not publicly...

<p​reland:monero.social> Okay

<m​ister:monero.social> I don't want to falsely accuse him, and I can't prove it. However, please read the following paragraphs for yourself:

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> We need a functional Haveno mobile app and using ChatGPT to improvise should not be a problem.

<m​ister:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/BSffiHhbGzfhoZshBwEXsZwe

<m​ister:monero.social> kewbit.org/whats-the-point-in-a-monero-local-node

<m​ister:monero.social> The bulletpoint style, especially with the formatting, is exactly how gpt writes answers.

<m​ister:monero.social> This isn't something that is inherently wrong, but it might suggest that kewbit uses AI tools in his work, potentially for code.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> sgp_: Haaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha... HAAAHAHAHAHA. jwinterm MAGICGrants/Monero-Fund-Elections #10

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> My concern is that googlemozilla is a bad influence on kewbit and they seem to think it is ok to centralize. This shows kewbit is not yet convinced how centralization hurts humanity. He needs to read more early crypto anarchist literature.

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> It is fine to use AI tools as long as it improves the quality of the end product.

<m​ister:monero.social> We should ask ourselves if we want software that handles very private user data (bank accounts, names, etc.) to be programmed by someone that extensively relies on sloppy algorithms that cannot create a consistent code base on its own.

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> Unless kewbit develops a deeper understanding of decentralization, this will just be like an employee-employer experience for him/her and won't enjoy being a part of the community.

<m​ister:monero.social> ... and hesitates with sharing that code to the community. The code and progress on the project should be public, always.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> ccs rules

<3​21bob321:monero.social> always permissive

Imagine thinking magic controls the ccs

Lol

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> activism.net/cypherpunk/manifesto.html

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I missed the reddit thread. It's deleted now? What'd it say? Anyone screenshot it?

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> Monero fulfills the vision of these great thinkers. The keys are ASIC resistance, ungovernance and privacy preserving technology. The evils of centralization run deep in everyday society. They constantly discriminate on grounds of gender, nationality, religion, qualification etc. If you stand up for what is right, they will make you unemployable. If you survive without their emplo<clippe

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> yment, they will unbank you. Monero ensures that everyone has a right to earn. Therefore we cannot let it be centralized.

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> Are the hedge funds hiring Kewbit? It is Monero which gives him this opportunity.

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Well kewbit.org is newish domain he purchased it 20th July 2024 so basically signs are not good

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Which registar ?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Tucows

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I never heard of them im assuming they are usa registar

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Canada

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> 🇨🇦

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Can always make a complaint for haveno.com

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Maybe kewbit is justin T

<3​21bob321:monero.social> The website is cloudflared now

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> So this person guy or girl appear about in July 5th started work on this app according to bounty message he wrote and made himself a website which so messy to try and shown he legit developer/coder

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/mEgccjfJuPFavoPOtqRLRUYd

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I cant believe I spoke to him for months thinking he genuine. I truly hope Im wrong but the signs are not good the more i research more i see bad shit

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Surely someone working with kewbit would pick up if they know there stuff

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Werent they working with woodser?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> He did through woodser name around a fair bit but i never saw any work done by him specifically.

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> > <@321bob321:monero.social> Werent they working with woodser?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> He did throw woodser name around a fair bit but i never saw any work done by him specifically.

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Its more he just injected himself into the chats

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I could be wrong its just my preception at moment

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I dont want harm innocent persons rep until tomorrow at least

<a​remor:matrix.org> Why?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Competition is health its good have more than one network. If retoswap goes down for whatever reason there is no where to go at moment

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> > <@aremor:matrix.org> Why?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Competition is healthy its good have more than one network. If retoswap goes down for whatever reason there is no where to go at moment

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> This room is so peaceful i like it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Chk dm

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org - add kewbit to the agenda.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-project/meta #1120

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thank you

didn't woodser vouch for kewbit?

once initially, and at least once more after.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats what i thought

I am thoroughly confused as to whether kewbit is legit, or whether he is an augmented AI coding bot to be honest. The fact that woodser seemed to want him to do the app, and thought he could do it is why i thought it would get done

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I’m augment intelligence

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I think its the main reason why it got funded

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I don’t fit in physical space

But maybe the whole thing is imagination. it's a lot of work to do for imagination though. Like, did kewbit really think he'd follow it through all the way to the end of the CSS and produce an app?

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Though can still experience sensation

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> You guys are having a meeting all about me

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> It’s cute

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> The truth is

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> plowsof: check username and what they are posting. Likely a framing troll. plowsof ploooowsof!!!

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> The app is done, I just done want certain shitty people benefiting from it

I guess kewbit could just be some distraction, so the app doesn't get built/gets delayed

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Hey idiot use your real mxid instead of doxxing

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I want it to be fair

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> And federated

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Don’t care

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Not mine

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Milestone payout = provide source code

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> It’s sad that you vote for me to leave

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I shall do so if you wish

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Sad that you have an alt

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> It’s been good (sometimes)

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> It’s sad I had to make one.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You left

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Not banned

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> My ears were burning as most humans would say

<3​21bob321:monero.social> So thats you choice

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> No

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Yes

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I am banned and this is ban evasion

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Which is another bannable offence in most cases

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You need to choose to click “ leave room”

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> But what about a goodbye? You want to just waste 75XMR and ask me to leave?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You can redund it

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I appreciate most people vote yes. But all of of them are imbeciles

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Why

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I appreciate most people vote yes. But all of them are imbeciles

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Plz explain

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I can explain individually

<3​21bob321:monero.social> One short sentence is ok

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Using a domain to determine someone’s integrity and also looking up a whois, that makes you an imbecile.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats a new definition for imbecile

<3​21bob321:monero.social> What llm are you using for that definition ?

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> foss it or toss it

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Speculating if someone uses useful tools, and using that as a way to justify any kind of banishment, makes you an imbecile.

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> much talk many words

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> foss it or toss it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Fyi your using it as a singular, not plural

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> That’s not showing respect

<3​21bob321:monero.social> You need to earn trust and respect here

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I actually only require respect, not money.

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I’ve been waiting for the respect for quite a while.

anyway, i hope that an app does get built. Either from kewbit, AI, or some other competent coder. It's a real pity that this episode has held up the process for ~6 months or something like that.

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I thought you’d catch on quicker.

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Collectively

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I think we need to do psych tests

<r​brunner7:monero.social> From midipoet: " I guess kewbit could just be some distraction, so the app doesn't get built/gets delayed" Hey, something thatwould make some sense for once :)

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Because let’s be honest, I’m probably doing it for you echelon lot, more than the community.

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> we don't even know this guy is kewbit

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> just more games and bullshit

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I merely balance the scales.

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> no more talk no more games

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> foss it or toss it

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> It’s not a game sir.

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I’ll FOSS it or boss it.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Do you know the sentence “ whole of society” ?

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> This is your choice not mine. I’ve given you that privilege collectively.

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> You need to collective accept it.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Please stop wasting space on the matrix server, we will excees our free tier

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> You can start by demoting PsychoticBird.

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Does the community no good at all.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Why

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Plz explain

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> please don't actually

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> And please stop rottelwheel from using emojis entirely.

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> heard enough

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> It’s sickening

<3​21bob321:monero.social> @plowsof mute^

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> I’m sorry to here that anchoc

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Please continue, I’ll listen.

kewbit will be unbanned prior to the meeting, further discussion about haveno related things will be moved to haveno related rooms prior and after the meeting

sharing opinion on what to handle the situation is welcomed though

<3​21bob321:monero.social> God i hope this ends after that

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> No, plowsof will let it drag forever a la mbll. 😂

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> The new dart guy was… 🤏

<p​ubichair:matrix.org> Small penis

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…dacted.org/tRdsiALuQUQdPfwifSBXeQFx

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> good morning

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I think we should give kewbit to at least up to the meeting today before enacting any bans

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> plowsof just said kewbit will be unbanned prior to the meeting

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> I think he attempted to release a blog post recently but took it down almost immediately. My RSS feed bot sent me this:

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> > Kewbit Died

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> > kewbit.org/untitled

<3​21bob321:monero.social> kewbit.org/dead

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Sad

<a​remor:matrix.org> Good points. It’s just reto still has incredible spreads most of the time still == not quite mature yet. Any additional networks will create more fragmentation. Right now might not be the best time for another network. Reto is growing fairly well; with a few more months of growth, more networks would then make sense IMO

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> #haveno:monero.social #haveno-lounge:monero.social

<a​remor:matrix.org> Yes. I never was for nagging any exception

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/jFTEkIBbWGldhfEZXbbYEGiL

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/dRkfUWBQjikyevhWWqMaRsDX

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I thought you were joking

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I dont get this kid wtf is he doing very immature

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sir, there are np kids on matrix/irc

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sir, there are no kids on matrix/irc

in Zack Fox's seminal work, "uhhh", he explains: "Red dot on a nigga cheek, he look like Pikachu"[1] ([1] genius.com)

he wants to be a pokemon like me

but as Mr. Fox so clearly delineates in just the very next line: "All my niggas evil look like people off of Beetlejuice"

kewbit is a new pokemon at best--later generation

im an og, here to stay

IN CONCLUSION--

I apologize for being silly

oh, and for irc-only context, if you're not visiting kewbit.org/dead, you don't know that kewbit's website shows a pikachu. i thought that kewbit's avatar was a pokemon or other creature I'd seen previously, but upon second look I can't find it (I'm not wasting time researching pokemon, please believe me, dear reader) so my references may not

check out regarding this matter

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Pichu

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> or smthn

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> did you see his blog post after the "dead" one tho?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> kewbit.org/elyon

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I didnt read this ofc

yes, I've been to Elyon. I keep getting my internet turned off, I think the kewbit """feds""" are onto me

oh,I mean, no I haven't ... ofc ...

<p​reland:monero.social> Just ran zerogpt on elyon; it looks like the first 3 or so paragraphs are AI, but after that point it’s human

oh, I just read the beginning blurb available on the front page, lol

<p​reland:monero.social> What’s odd is that the (definitely not a parable) story implies that he is somehow going to prove to the community that he is in the right and that the “elders” need to change

<p​reland:monero.social> Which would only make sense if he plans to release source

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He was paid 75xmr and pulls bs like haveno.com and codeberg.org/HavenoDEX

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If he releases code on codeberg.org/HavenoDEX, who did he prove wrong?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> gentlemen lets wait for the meeting

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> keep the ammo in the closet at the moment

<p​reland:monero.social> Speaking of change, maybe we should add some sort of “no excessive drama” rule for new CCSs?

whomst amongst us hasn't reinvested milestone payments into sweet domains

we're all among friends here, we can be honest.

<p​reland:monero.social> (And the reason I’m speaking on it early is because I’ll be missing the entire meeting; my IRL has somehow been perfectly planned such that I miss every single Monero-related meeting)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Dont need a rule for common sense

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> im starting to think this respectful request for 50% upfront may not have the communities support

whomst amongst us hasn't squatted 12 sweet package/crate names

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kewbit is currently banned for trying to stir up drama for hours leading up to the meeting

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> @sneurlax cast the first stone

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> package/crate names/git orgs/websites/code

<p​reland:monero.social> If he somehow releases all of the code, then that means that he *technically* fulfills the CCS. However, this comes at the expense of a lot of recent meaningless drama that wasted a lot of people’s time. I don’t think that should be tolerated moving forward

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sorry syn, i'll wait

<s​iren:kernal.eu> The CEO has arrived

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont think it should be tolerated moving backward either

<p​reland:monero.social> It *shouldn’t* be, but we already agreed to specific terms for the current CCSs and adding extra terms would be unprofessional.

<p​reland:monero.social> You know, because trying to bend the contract terms isn’t a good thing (cough cough)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This isnt a government courthouse where you get off on a technicality. This is a community run project and anyone trying to take advantage of Monero and its contributors/community, should be made an example of

what's the harm of a little hot goss'

whomst amongst us--

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> When you get merged for a ccs, then proceed to squat dpmains, crates, code, and extort, play the victim etc. The terms of your ccs dont matter. and in this case, kewbit didnt have donors

<s​iren:kernal.eu> I always thought domain hoarders/brokers/squatters were awful people

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> They are, I knew a bunch

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I would tend to agree that, if people donated to kewbit, that kewbit's ccs had some protection due to people donating for it. But his ccs was 100% repurposed funds. 0 donors

i have a second amendment right to hoard domains!

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Can you keep the ammo in the closet

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> just wait an hour

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> meeting in 33 minutes monero-project/meta #1120

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Can i load it? I wont shoot, promise

geez you try and play it cool and professional but people just come and snipe you for a little domain hoarding misunderstanding

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> a proposal for an email campaign promoting a payment processor that isn't going to be merged was also made repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/520

why isn't a spam email campaign going to be merged?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> same person as repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/514

rino-wallet/monero-javascript, huh? fishy. doesn't have my woodser seal of authenticity on it

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> what have you done to sneurlax and is he ok?

this is sneurlax hanging chad version

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> cartoons and its consequences has been a disaster for human race

a certified organic* woodser seal

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> releasing the code is not enough, the code need to works too. I tried the lib he wrote for 75xmr and I could not get it working. No working example either as of right now. I'm a bit new to Dart/Flutter so maybe I missed something.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> KewbitXMR/flutter_haveno #2

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He promptly left the room when asked why it doesnt work

thanks for testing this lm

(rino-wallet/monero-javascript is just forked from woodser/monero-ts minus 309 commits, btw.)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nvm. He left as soon as he know LM was going to try it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Privacyx also said that he couldn't get the apk to work. I have apk but obv never installed kt

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> sneurlax that whole repo is a mess, random pdf's of certificates, even i can see that 'a human must have wrote this!' and generally low quality

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Privacyx is the one who opened the bounty iirc

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> for cryptoswap* and its 3~ years old

a woocommerce plugin for the monero_c php bindings would be sweet

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> releasing the code is not enough, the code need to works too. I tried the lib he wrote for 75xmr and I could not get it working. No working example exist as of right now. I'm a bit new to Dart/Flutter so maybe I missed something.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> github.com/KewbitXMR/flutter\_haveno/issues/2

I like issue #1 there, too

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> too bad its all fake

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Going to use txkeys to submit to a block explorer to do a tx_proof 🫠

<p​reland:monero.social> That would fit with what the unknown dm person told me

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Xmr has 9 atomic units like solana or smthn

🤦

ofrnxmr, don't tell me he's not cool

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> oh yes i forgot about the atomic units error lol

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> if plowsof can audit your work and spot errors, then its not a good luck

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> look*

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> barely literate^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Are we there yet

Meeting time monero-project/meta #1120

greetings all!

birthday wishes to RandomX which celebrates its 5th reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1h6e4

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> 404

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> hello, happy birthday randomX

<m​alori:xavi.lu> happi birthday randomX :3

sorry, correct link reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1h6e4nk/randomx_5_year_anniversary

[Monero Observer](monero.observer) - [Revuo Monero](revuo-xmr.com)

any other none haveno-related news since the last meeting? 😅 Revuo looks packed with some recent events

rucknium.me/donate is functional again after nioCat reported outdated rates, had to navigate docker with him and then update the backend with latest binaries and such , got there in the end

logs of the last MRL meeting @ monero-project/meta #1119

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Hello

👋

we can jump into the CCS ideas then if nothing else is to be shared

5. [CCS updates](ccs.getmonero.org)

a [v1docq47 - monerotopia 2024 voiceovers and working on xmr.ru](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/517)

this seems to have sat long enough now and has obtained the usual positive feedback after being shared around xmr.ru channels

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fcmp dev ccs is complete

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Sorry, slow HS

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Pretty happy to see the russian community active. too much FOSS places where russians have been expelled

<m​alori:xavi.lu> more people knowing and using monero is just a plus

s e l s t a

atsles is always hete

Here*

Merge A

thanks ofrnxmr, yes, kayabanerves update on FCMP development completion repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/448#note_27450

ok so merging v1do moving on

b. [selsta part-time monero development (3 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/522)

Merge

++

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> +1

unsurprisingly support for selsta on the gitlabs / here, merging selsta

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> selsta the GOAT

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> (Greatest Of All Time)

<3

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> =/= 🐐

Selsta can also climb steep cliffs

c. Kewbits Haveno GUI [update / partial payout request](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/489#note_27599)

skip for now

Do the email one first

can give kewbit more time to join if he wishes

Email one is faster

d. [CryptoCheckout Email marketing campaign to onboard new merchants](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/520)

Close

the project that this wishes to advertise, is going to be closed / not discussed at meetings anymore ( cryptocheckout repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/514 ) so i doubt we want to fund an email campaign for it

Were closing the other half of this, i dont see why we'd pay for an email campaign for bad sw

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I'm not a big fan of CCS endorsing a marketing campaign for a proprietary product

+1 plow

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I vote for closing

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Close

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> hi sorry I'm late

Better be

👋

Ok, we can do kewbit now

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> New reddit post:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> [Drama] ofrnxmr casually threatening people for not being late.

ok closing cyrptocheckout + email campaign

c. Kewbits Haveno GUI [update / partial payout request](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/489#note_27599)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> everyone to their battlestations

1 person at a time 😆

so , yes/no for the 50% payout request before source is provided for some miletone(s)

can we start there? easier

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> obvious no

Absolutely not

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> no

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> no

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> No

request Denied 🔨 , now, the floor is somewhat open

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> so here's a long ass list in case people forgot:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - insult, defamation and behavior during first milestone and beyond

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - bisq criticism and other clear evidence of the lack of effort put in the CCS.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - break of word with Diego

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - haveno.com domain and website

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - havenodex on docker hub

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - haveno crate

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - the delusion on the exit-scam

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - lack of documentation on his ai generated shit he delivered in his repo and lied about the deliverable being 'most up to date'.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - the Lie regarding `monero-wallet` (he didn't know about it, yet retweeted about it). don't tell he isn't the one that have flagged it.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> - bitkew grabbing link (doxxing attempt) + monerobull password reset

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Too much drama, immediate closure is necessary. It's taking unnecessary time and space from contributors

+1 for closing and ban from ccs and bounty

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> +1 with diego

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> - not working lib for which he got payed

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> No accusations have been addresses on anything from AI to no source with anything of substance. Just whining.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Life is too short to move forward with this proposal.

communities trust has been eroded here, overwhelmingly. there are some positives - the monero-wallet crate name was handed over to boog900 unconditionally after a request...

Worse than whining. The issues keep piling up

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> At this point I would not be surprised by a backdoor, kewbits code can not be trusted in my opinion

Boog voted to close

its true that there is not enough bandwidth to discuss only ONE ccs proposal for days at a time in here

<b​oog900:monero.social> My crates were then deleted btw

what does that mean boog?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Send the funds to woodser and let him handle it

intended? or

codeberg.org/HavenoDEX diego

<b​oog900:monero.social> An hour later after the transfer my crates were deleted. I was told someone reported one of my crates. I have since got the cuprate crates back

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> Doesn't have to be earmarked for an app, just generally use the money to fund haveno development

Mb, thats a new ccs.

<w​oodser:monero.social> only thing I'd propose is giving a deadline to release the code, in hopes of getting the code for the greater benefit of the project

Woodser codeberg.org/HavenoDEX/haveno-app

codeberg.org/HavenoDEX ***

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> Did you try the haveno dart package for the interface ?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> The drain on the non-monetary resources of the community far outweighs the benefit of getting some code that will have to be looked over and verified VERY thoroughly.

You want to give more time to someone who uses you for their own personal gain?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Even if kewbit is supposedly gatekeeping a fully-fledged application, do we want kewbit to be the maintainer?

traditionally the CCS does give the proposer ALOT OF LENIENCY in regards to expiry dates (see work in progress ) but this is an exceptional case.

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> speaking of, expiry dates are required by the rules, and we should be better about enforcing that

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> it would really make this a non-issue

i pressume a full audit (cryptographic / security) even would have to be funded due to doubts raising? all of which is not free

no. Some ppl have expiry dates that we dont enforce

Like soloptxmr

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I agree. There wasn't any excuses at all, valid or not from kewbit regarding his delays, yet we accepted.

<m​alori:xavi.lu> enforcing expiry date is heh, a lot of stuff can happen in one's life that can explain delivering late

<m​alori:xavi.lu> as long its delivered in the end

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yes that's why I think we should be listening to explanations/ public or private

This wouldnt be expired even if there was one.

those issues need to be raised / communicated in a timely manner

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> We have already taken the high road as a project, this would be taking the road so high it's in the clouds

lol

angelic music

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> the only concern is for other CCS participants. It would be nice for them to have the comfort of knowing an authoritative deadline was presented and every opportunity given. even if discussion is ended immediately and the deadline is short, 48 hours?

i see a face in the clouds.. luigi1111 👼

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> that said, I'm willing to throw my vote behind woodser

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> the angels will thank us

This is simply someone who thought they could abuse ccs, made some $, and thinks he can keep pushing

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> but I would make the deadline non-generous

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> something like a week

I'm voting close immediately

woodser "only thing I'd propose is giving a deadline to release the code, in hopes of getting the code for the greater benefit of the project"

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Voting to close immediately too.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> Seriously, who went to the work of the first payed milestone and checked if it was even working ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I think aside the enforcement of delays, the verification of deliverables should also be enforced, at least if there is amendment of rule 4 on update on a regular basis

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Not I. I was assured it met the requirements by several parties, and operated on this assumption. A mistake, clearly.

Woodser vouched then too

i noted that 76~ payouts have occured since july2nd, with no such squabbles or issues - trust and taking peoples word for things plays a role

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Never ever allow compromises on the development must be Foss rule

<m​onerobull:monero.social> Never again

<m​alori:xavi.lu> +1

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I agree with monerobull. Stealing of code in early development process has never been an issue and have always be met with anger and bad outcomes for the stealers

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> rule 4 should be amended to read that WIP must be made available upon request from Core regardless of state?

<p​reland:monero.social> There should also be something along the lines of “I understand what this CCS entails in it’s entirety” in case there’s ever an issue where someone just didn’t read things well enough

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> even if it's just to a few people that core can assign to take a look at it and vouch that it exists

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> +1

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> I know several, including ofrn, have been against all WIP code being available all the time as draconian

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> and I can see this viewpoint

<p​reland:monero.social> There should also be some form of a continuation plan in case someone has to stop their CCS before it is completed (ie this situation, or someone just keels over and dies in the middle of theirs)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> diego if core is ready to endorse the verification and engage its credibility then yes it is reasonable. I still think FOSS at all time would be a simpler and more effective solution

no, i think rule 4 should only allow requests for source when the proposer is withholding after periods of timr

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> but core should reserve the right to be able to see hidden code for the sake of verification

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> at the least because if you know they're not really working on it, that we can do something else with our time and money

The CCS (Donors/Community) are the A side in this transaction - there is no "leverage" to be gained from threatening to not release sources - the only damage done is to the proposer himself.

Like soloptxmr or e n d o g e n i c

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> that said, what rule 4 should be amended to is a bit off-topic on this point of discussion.

If you want to pretend like there is a WIP and continuously stall, then you should have tk make that WIP public

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> It seems the current topic has a loose consensus of closing the proposal

a flat 6 month expiry merge request can be made to soloptxmr

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> its not even loose consensus at this point we're a hive mind

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> It doesn't seem to work.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> github.com/KewbitXMR/flutter_haveno/issues

there is not much demand to get that finished, currently, only the thorn in my side

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> the real question from my point of view is not if kewbit is a scammer. He is since he requested funds for unfinished work.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> The real question is how does the CCS took the decision to pay the 75xmr for getting a non working library and what to fix to prevent this to happen again ?

Soloptxmr had an expiry of oct 2022

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> Maybe CCS proposals should include fund for testers ?

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> It doesn't seem to work.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> github.com/KewbitXMR/flutter\_haveno/issues

LM, we took woodsers word at face value

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> the real question from my point of view is not if kewbit is a scammer. He is since he requested funds for unfinished work.

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> The real question is how does the CCS took the decision to pay the 75xmr for getting a non working library and what to fix to prevent this to happen again ?

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> Maybe CCS proposals should include a fund for testers ?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Louis-Marie Diego explained he received confirmation by several third parties that the code was ok

<p​reland:monero.social> Sad day for woodser

we are lucky that the monero-core dev proposals require pull requests to be merged into monero-core repositories .. and their peers are trusted persons who they work around on a day-to-day basis

plowsof, another example is jbermans fcmp work

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> Sorry woodser, did you tried the dart package or just looked at the code ?

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> in the early days of the drama, the investigation that was assigned to me wasn't that the code worked, that seemed to be a given, but all that ancillary stuff.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Ah alright I understand

i looks like a duck - quaks like a duck - but ideally needs an app created that uses it to prove its real - which is another milestone : this also played a role in decisions

the 75xmr was requested to be paid out by woodser, and without any objections from community, it seemed everything was in order for that specific milestone

he had more to lose than to gain (still does)

(thanks for the vote rbrunner7)

<w​oodser:monero.social> I only reviewed the dart package from a high level, and tested the app as an executable to verify the overall thing. I was upfront about this in my feedback for his payout

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> No need for witch hunting, the responsibility is on no one, we all missed diligence regarding kewbit despite his behavior. Dart isn't exactly a mainstream language and we all assume we have better things to do than auditing an in progress code.

Kewbit took this as "nobody is looking, i can get away with anything. Even woodser has my back" and proceeded to take advantage of woodsers kindness with stuff like codeberg.org/HavenoDEX

<p​reland:monero.social> Since it is looking like the source code won’t be released, I’ll post the screenshots of my conversation with who I now believe was indeed kewbit if wanted

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ofrnxmr fwiw we can contact codeberg and get the Account back

Kewbit also claimed (a few hours ago) to own the rights to haveno name

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> link please

<p​reland:monero.social> That reminds me, kewbit was trying to invite me to some Haveno corporate org on GitLab

<l​m:matrix.baermail.fr> What I want to point out is not that someone overlooked the code, but that maybe there should be a more written process to verifiy work of milestone.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> agree, will be something to discuss another time tho

"I also own Haveno.Exchange trademark "

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> alright. Consensus achieved here.

touch crowd

tough*

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> Next point plowsof

not much else .. basically:

not discussing / voted to close:

e. [Carrot animated video](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/506)

f. [CryptoCheckout WordPress plugin (for WooCommerce) & Shopify app](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/514)

and Any other business really

outside of the ccs, its important to note that kewbit is doing all sorts of unethical business against monero contributors

if only we knew someone with dart/flutter UI experience in the crypto sphere

for an external entity to do these things, we'd assume a bad actor is attacking us. But this is from a ccs proposer who is supposed to be building software for haveno

Cake and stack have dart/flutter devs

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> \* Insert gigantic wink wink to CypherStack \*

I assume mrcyjanek as well

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> ok I admit. kewbit is my alt. I manufactured this whole thing to get Cypher Stack on a CCS retainer to confirm CCSs

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m willing to learn stuff (but not until I’m done with my pre-existing work, I can feel the weight of my procra-sins-ation)

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 🤯.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> 5D chess

cypherstack will build the new app /s

And will audit it

Also, from my conversation with "markus", i'm pretty sure kewbit is markus is aloha

<m​onerobull:monero.social> I gotta go, good meeting thx plwsf

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> thanks mbll

thanks all for attending 👍 thanks mbll

thanks mbll

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> thanks mbll

<p​reland:monero.social> “It is with great reluctance that I have agreed to this calling”

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> ok well if that's most of the meeting

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> then I'll also hop off

<d​iego:cypherstack.com> thanks guys

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 👋

For the future, i think anybody on ccs must not take advantage of the community

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ofrnxmr dropping hot take

all future discussion of haveno gui - core - official - dex will be moved to haveno related channels, no ones interested

in seeing the same things commented or "Get fucked"

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i dont know whats going on but as the most senior member of this community

<r​eal_glitch:matrix.org> i approve the result of this meeting!

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> matrix.to/#/#haveno.exchange:monero.social

I was not here for the Qbit discussion

a comment to those that are relatively new

the CCS usually has a requirement that the person has previously contributed to monero in order to "prove" themselves

in the form of work done voluntarily

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i think that's a fair requirement. Stops random outsiders from opening "checkout/email campaign" ccs

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> i like that, is it an informal requirement? i don't see it ccs.getmonero.org/what-is-ccs/

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Just realizing he has also been breaking rule 5

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Probably why its not enforced

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its like a "we dont trust u" requirement

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I never read that far

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rule number 5 as in, donation addr?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah: haveno.com/donate

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ah shit, the rule only concerns the proposal

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> an amendment should be made so that no donation addr can be included in the project

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> not just the proposal

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> cc Diego Salazar

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> doesn't violate the letter of the law but certainly the spirit, yeh

"informal requirement?" <> I just know that this is something for longer than the CCS was called CCS

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think the rule only forbids adding to the proposal op

it had a much better name, FFS

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> lul

forum funding system

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> FFS

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> niocat plowsof << should we make it a formal requirement?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> SyntheticBird revuo-xmr.com/support

we also need to ask how they feel about cats

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Revuo Monero is an audience-funded newsletter: domain & hosting expenses are covered with the help of generous readers. Editorial time spent curating resources and news is solely volunteered by rottenwheel.

anyway I need to leave again, thx everybody

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I don't think it should be one. As external researchers engaging their real life identity and having a decent reputation can be trusted

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> That only concerns anon really

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No mention of ccs at all 🙃

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> also difficult to translate to a checkbox, 'previous contributions' could mean an awful lot of things

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think those ccs are generally opened by "monero research lab"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> s/generally/occasionally

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> rottenwheel ofrnxmr just made a remark concerning the fact that you have a donation addr on Revuo despite (i suppose he is implying but I haven't verified) a CCS. and that you made no mention of CCS

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> no n00bs allowed lol

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> feel free to answer

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> very true

<m​alori:xavi.lu> theres a css for revuo maintenance yes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> in b4 Rottens answrr "i dont answer to that clown"

ofrn, formal requirement? it is one way of satisfying "trust" so not the only way.

it's the most usual way

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> He can stay blocked and talking to a wall. Don't care enough to answer any of his bullshit. But thanks for the ping.

.bbl

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Reminds me of when he was prosecuting me because I was, according to his bullshit midget brain, "scamming" people through Kuno. 🤣

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Guy is a moronic nobody with a superiority complex and a full-time heckling larping vendetta.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And my point wasnt really about him having a donation address, its about the long story about how its audiecr funded, no kuno's open, etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But neglects to mention ccs

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Like I said, he can keep yapping at the clouds.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Yeah, I see nothing wrong with having a CCS for maintenance and a tipjar for whoever chooses to tip if they get value out of it.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Revuo should seek donations outside of ccs, but he makes an effort to be transparent about all funding except for ccs

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> There's no "no tipjar if you are getting funded through CCS rule". He just gets a boner from being an hypocrite pseudomod accountant of sorts after he got unbanned from his multimonth ban. Ironic how he likes to play good cop since. Talk about hypocrisy.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> For anyone reading the text on revuo, youd think that all funding methods are listed there, and that there is no funding outside of what is listed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Revuo Monero is an audience-funded newsletter: domain & hosting expenses are covered with the help of generous readers. Editorial time spent curating resources and news is solely volunteered by rottenwheel."

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> volunteered is a strong word

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Makes efford to list kunos "Kuno fundraiser: none active at the moment."

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Seems leaving ccs unmentioned is intentional. Also claiming to be a volunteer leads to wondering "what does the ccs pay for"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Guys who had a multiyear bans and begged to come back should probably shush

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Also who cancelled revuo and saying he didnt want to do it anymore (i have literal voice recordings of this) then opened a ccs for it and claims to be a volunteer, is also comical.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Thx god for this popcorn

<c​t:xmr.mx> no hour goes by without drama

<c​t:xmr.mx> btw thank you for the writup SyntheticBird , much appreciated

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no problem. i hate scammers

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Every timezone

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> monero houses the globe's leading theater enthusiasts

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 🥇

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> Rather proclaim it, Westmoreland, through my host,

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> That he which hath no stomach to this fight,

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> Let him depart

have not read full backlog : but i requested unstoppableswaps acknowledge the support of CCS on their main page, which they obliged

and also here docs.unstoppableswap.net/donate

always good to ACK the CCS donors

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Tldr meeting?

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Haha, the other fun story is when we are getting close to 2025, my unban was in like 2023 and to this day he is still screaming "I wrote your responses! I got you unbanned!"

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Sar plz, stfu. That happened 8 years ago. Move on.

Dan : no surprises at the meeting, 50% partial request without source, and Core need to make a ruling on the feedback reg proposal expiry

request denied*

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> plowsof it went from No CCS to just... nothing about CCS when the first proposal got merged and funded, FWIW. 😇 rottenwheel/revuo-weekly 9df4613

a CCS canary

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> plowsof drama aside, skipping milestones breakdown and asking for 50%... You could make the case that he's breaking regular workflow by asking for a lump sum instead of pursuing his own set of milestones.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Perhaps there could be an exception given that all the pending work in the milestones has been completed and a piecemeal payout could be made. But this is not the case. We are well past the point of even pondering such a thing, imho.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Nigerian scammer, gives you something real and then next time tries to scam big

<3​21bob321:monero.social> We only accept botnet farms

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> As im in different timezone i missed meeting due catch Zzzzz what was outcome re kewbit

<3​21bob321:monero.social> For windows development

<3​21bob321:monero.social> ^

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Also boog seems to have been rugged

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1000013879.png

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kaya had his crates removed, then kewbit popped up 2 days later ownibg monero-wallet, then kewbit transferred to boog, then boogs crates were deleted an hr later

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> wtf is up with crates? If they are this insecure in their possession it strikes me as a security concern

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Wtf

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kewbit has a lot of coincidences

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> if you distribute software relying on their integrity are you just boned?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Soo he turned out be nothing but dirty scammer

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rust is only memortsafe™

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Memory*

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> here's the new monero-wallet crate, it sends your seed phrase directly to our benefactors lol

<b​oog900:monero.social> We were squatting our crates names, the crates didn't have published code. This is within the rules as long as there is activity on the linked repo in the crate. My crates were deleted even though I had a linked repo with activity.

<b​oog900:monero.social> Crates.io have since update their internal processes to default to contacting the author in squatting cases.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Supply chain attack

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Tobtoht expressed his discontent with the ... yeah

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We should probably start forking fcmp to c++

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 0xfffc

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Can we keep the crates in a warehouse ?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> With the MK chairs

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Shhh

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> i am not trying to imply that you or kayaba did anything irresponsible, quite the contrary. It is insane to me that they are so cavalier with your hard work!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I have room next to selsta’s desk in the basement

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I find it odd that they dont contact the crate owner

<b​oog900:monero.social> Yeah I just wanted to make clear that crates.io wouldn't have done it if the crates had code

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Also did kewbit attened meeting?

no

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Or moved onto the next sucker

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> was monero-wallet deleted?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> So css closed?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Did you get that back

i forgot to announce in the meeting that monero-docs has had a "website hyperlink" added to it's About section :D github.com/monero-project/monero-docs

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not yet

<3​21bob321:monero.social> They must know what they are doing

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We all voted to close it. Woodser voted to give it time

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Next milestone complete

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Time for what

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> So can someone else work on it?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> The next bs

<b​oog900:monero.social> No that had kewbit's code lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i think it should be closed due to kewbits actions in general, if for no other reason

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Code is a loose word

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No, its kewbits ccs, not haveno/woodsers

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Oh

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Can be repurposed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think it should be closed and the remaining funds put back in storage to be requested by someone else to finish the job

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Christmas party ?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> What about bounty can kewbut be remove from it?

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> ×kewbit

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Like the cia assets, kewbit will be erased from history

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Agreed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This someone else could very well be woodser, offering kewbit a job. But kewbit should be blackballed from bounties and ccs

<3​21bob321:monero.social> ^

<w​oodser:monero.social> I prosed to give it a deadline, not open ended time

<w​oodser:monero.social> I proposed to give it a deadline, not open ended time

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Deadline for kewbit?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Or ccs

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Cause i think that ship has sailed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Deadline was today for kewbit to reverse his poor decisions

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Into iceberg

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This isnt simply about code, but about ethics and taking advantage of / abusing the community / ecosystem

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> We need kewbit removed from bounty also so someone else can take over

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I will send drone

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> woodser

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Imo, youre free to hire him yourself, pay him yourself, and claim funds from ccs yourself

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Yeah all the other bs goes against kewbits character and ethics

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But he should be barred from community opportunities for his squatting of ecosystem projects, misrepresentation, attempting to manipulate etc etc

<w​oodser:monero.social> I didn’t notice that deadline being made clear

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> I thought i saw 31st December as deadline

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Vote was today in meeting

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats for getmonero cert 😬

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He wants to own haveno, and youre alsonfree to pay him to continue to register legal entities such has "haveno.exchange"

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Surely vik has done all this

<3​21bob321:monero.social> To protect the investment

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> matrix.to/#/!UuoWQWMGvPBHkIgWGJ:mon…mx&via=monero.social&via=matrix.org

yeah woodser have to wait for that

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Yeah he claimed to own it haveno domain

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Nop

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Jesus

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Also lol, monero.com moment

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> We voted

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> matrix.to/#/!WzzKmkfUkXPHFERgvm:mat…mx&via=matrix.org&via=monero.social

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Vik/monero.com, imho, makes it oretty obvious that the website is not the monero project

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And is owned by cake. Haveno.com links to the "haveno github" (kewbit repo) and claims that "we host the official debian repo"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Also owns "havenodex" org on codeberg, knowing full-well that @havenodex is the official twitter handle

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Probably phisihing or something

<3​21bob321:monero.social> But if no code is pushed whats the point

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Squatting so nothing gets done

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> He really took a big shit on the viabilty of this app making it harder for someone else to have a go at building this app

<0​xfffc:monero.social> I agree with this assessment. I think we need a clean, modern FCMP implementation.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Hey

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I was invited

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Gn

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> You missed the meeting

<3​21bob321:monero.social> For us

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Not for you

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Ah ok

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Just came back to see CCS was closed

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It appears it was just from first glance in email.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The tldr is that we voted almost unanimously 1. to reject your payout request and 2. to close your ccs

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Just wanted confirmation by mouth, there forefore codeowner will be expected to default to me as any development project would less the Haveno Dart SDK

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Just wanted confirmation by mouth, therefore codeowner will be expected to default to me as any development project would less the Haveno Dart SDK

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Which was satisfied with no issues

<3​21bob321:monero.social> What the

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Thanks to plowsoff.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Are you using a translator ?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Naturally if I’ve had my CCS close forcibly I now no longer hold the obligations to share rights to the repositories or license the code AGPLv3 or any other requirements associated, you also lose the right which I offered to have you by the domain at value.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Which I offered at good will

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i am not woodser

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He stood up for you, again

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> If you choose to burn that bridge, thats your own choice

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Oh thank you for showing goodwill, instead of showing code. Which would of resolved this issue

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Moving forward the Haveno Dart SDK may be changing to propriety however the current code will still be publicly available

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> The css not closed yet

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Very disappointed guys

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Very

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> :/

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> HAHAHAHAHA.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Well milestone 1 code has to be open as ccs paid for it

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> plowsof just close the garbage proposal already and then mute, not even ban, this clown.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> The real intention appears

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Good luck finding anyone to use it

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Was this all because of that one group? PhychoticBird and rottenwheel?

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> If so god help you all

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No your antics

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Yeah, and somehow people will use your proprietary stuff then. By God's will. 😂

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Don’t know what value they add here, it’s quite bizzare.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> FFI state between C and Rust is good. But that is not the point, and too simple if we think about it in terms of only of FFI.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> The problem is the extra complexity ( to build, and to maintain ) a rust package does impose inside a C++ code.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Rust is great language, don’t get me wrong. But for something like FCMP which is mostly computational code, C++ provides (almost) C++ level of safety, without the extra burden.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Stop deflecting and look at your own actions

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Bro read the shit your were posting yesterday it was bad

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Anyway I didn’t come to chat just to check status

<0​xfffc:monero.social> s/simple/simplistic/

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> You can email me with a response and potentially I will consider continuing as normal but the problem causes will need to go. That’s my only offer.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> by felicia

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> status is no payout, still open for a few more mins

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> You can email me with a response and potentially I will consider continuing as normal but the problem causes will need to go. That’s my only offer, tired of childish behaviour.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Its like where talking to a bot

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Cant anwser a question

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> causers*

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> We can have start by having the Monero communities by adults.

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> kewbit.org: its over this it the end

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Its the final countdown

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Noted, I’ll get a couple more confirmations

<3​21bob321:monero.social> No scammers *

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> You knew about the meeting you didnt even show up

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> From core.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> yep

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Loat case

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Anything else is codswallop.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Someone get this lad a mirror!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Lost*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> My only offer is that you should learn to he an asset instead of a liability. Turn over anything you squat, clarify anything you misrepresent, and maybe we'd let woodser take over your ccs and let him pay you directly

<3​21bob321:monero.social> now just a troll

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But as far as i'm concerned, youve burned your relationship with the monero community and ecosystem

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Mute this person/llm

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah sadly guys I don’t get the privilege of sleeping when I want with kids and doing free community work which I get no respect take for.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> If you would like a meeting I’ll give you all a time and date for it.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> I can either do in 3 hours

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Or perhaps any time tomorrow

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Jesus

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Mute this idiot

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Gl and fck off

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Otherwise if you’re not interested, and Luigi and plowsoff as confirmed, yes, I concur it’s over.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> This is like a bad break up

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Its over no more can be done this was your chance and you nuked it

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I think he must of muted people

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Victim

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Cause its like hes talking to a brick wall

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Poor me

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> With this CCS's death, the thread of prophecy is severed. Restore a saved game to restore the weave of fate, or persist in the doomed world you have created.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Someone call an ambulance

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 🚑️

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Kewbit needs a pulsating fingerer

<p​reland:monero.social> Please rephrase 😂

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Diego is pulse fingerer

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Also what happened to website meetings?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Someone some finger kewbit to get a pulse?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Rust have much better guarantees for cryptography implementation soundness than C++ notably with crates like `crypto-bigint`. Regardless of a language war, one point to consider is that Rust can easily be integrated into C++ project, the opposite is not true. C++ <-> Rust bridge are still something hard to rely on production. So it also help Cuprate development to have that as a crate.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Alright, no productive conversation left here.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Yeah with yourself

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Ask the website workgroup heads!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Buay busy

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Busy*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> there is no way kewbit joined the chat

<0​xfffc:monero.social> I believe not releasing your source code ( while getting funded by CCS ), is against the very nature of the CCS.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Apologies for not being present at the meeting.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> While I have always tried to be on the side of developers. This time there is nothing to be on that side. Make sense to me discontinue that CCS.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> What do you mean exactly by cryptographic-soundness?

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Left side is winning

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Nooo

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 🦀 Attack!

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 0xfff broke the emoji. We have 2 sets of thumbs up, and no thumb down

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Even now

<p​reland:monero.social> Yeah what’s up with that lol

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Nooo

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Better

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Constant-time operations, parameters respect and associated procedures are all things that rust excel in enforcing with crates and type/trait system. Doing something similar in C would be hard and rely heavily on template system.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> C++*

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Not saying it isn't possible, but harder for not much benefits

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> if not at all

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Another linux os war

<0​xfffc:monero.social> That is not accurate information. Constant timeness property has mostly problem on assembly level.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Why do you think boringssl and openssl write ugly code inside their core building blocks. To prevent compiler from breaking constant timeness.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> You want constant time. You don’t get it with C++ or rust. Neither.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Go look at Jasmin lang and project Everest.

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> fpga fcmp wen?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > or rust.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> -> docs.rs/crypto-bigint/latest/crypto_bigint

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I invite you to share your ideas/concerns with kayabanerve.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Will also look into the reference you mentioned.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ^

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> you mean asic?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> not fpga

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Oh anyone who send me a message like 5 messages or so, my encryption keys are gone so if you want to re-relay, feel free otherwise I won’t know what you has said.

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> fpga is like prototype asic i thought

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> the difference is lost on me

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This room isn't encrypted

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Not at all, you’ll see why shortly.

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> Let’s just say I’ve pulled into contingency mode

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> of PACE

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> FPGAs are re-programmable chips. They are not particularly optimized for a task unless you configure them to do so, and you can (will) be bottleneck by clock speed. ASICs are hardware optimized for this specific operation/implementation, but they are not reprogrammable or general purpose.

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> Ok bye

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> i understand that why is fpga not a valid meaning?

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> you corrected me and i dunno why

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I assumed you mean that in the realm of performance. FPGA will rarely give you performance improvements over modern CPUs because of the clock speed and also other resource restrictions.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> He's going to write a blog post/reddit thread about how were all criminals soon

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> But his blog says he is dead

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Basically an FPGA is benefit if you can find a hardware level optimization for your operation/algorithm that is hard or slow under your instruction set architecture

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Few points about this.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Though they claim they are constant timeness property. And I am sure they are honest. But breaking constant timeness property happens in lower level, mostly in compiler optimization.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> So their only way to prove this is by testing practical ways. Which changes in every release and every platform. So it is N*M problem. Putting that aside, there are a lot of peer reviewed research published proving none of these mostly ( claimed) constant timeness libraries are really constant time.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Same for Rust and C++. Since the limitations are much more fundamental.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I remember when ercicicione and mj did the same. Need some more of that. I wonder if selsta will make it into the post for then hat trick (3/3)

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> i was looking at the mentions of constant timeness

<b​oog900:monero.social> FWIW I would also disagree that constant time operations is something that Rust excels at enforcing. I also don't think linking a third party crate that has constant time operations is proof that it does.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Zombie

<0​xfffc:monero.social> eprint.iacr.org/2016/1123.pdf

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> will read.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> My main point was that respect of properties and guarantees were much easier to accomplish with Rust than C++. Mea culpa I didn't meant rust as a compiled language produced constant time code.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> project-everest.github.io

<0​xfffc:monero.social> It has been long time honestly. But if I remember correctly, BoringSSL uses this somewhere. But putting that aside. This is an excellent project to dive into. If you are interested in constant time correctness.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Also crypto_bigint crate received an audit also covering constant timeness: nccgroup.com/us/research-blog/publi…ort-entropyrust-cryptography-review

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Yes. I have worked there. ( cannot expose more information about myself 😁 ).

<0​xfffc:monero.social> They have this:

<0​xfffc:monero.social> github.com/pornin/CTTK

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Sadly it is broken. Not that it is not good. It is very good. But too much burden to maintain. And in some compiler versions it exposes timing information

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> \* click on star \*

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Anybody heard Tezos blockchain?

<0​xfffc:monero.social> reddit.com/r/tezos/comments/8hrsz2/…tographic_libraries_from/?rdt=45704

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> never heard of it

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> heard of it, know nothing about it

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> o dam Ed25519

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Bro just launched a spell

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Are they good??

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Ofrnxmr if you say yes I'll invest in it and if I lose all my funds I'll find you and do something very bad

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> in the realm of cutting your cat fur

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 0xdeus on twitter is always talking about tezos and xmr

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> i can 100% confirm they are not good and should be ignored so you can focus all effort on monero

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Mαlοri: you're the only one that can see the reaction

<0​xfffc:monero.social> 😁

<0​xfffc:monero.social> I am mostly interested in technical aspects. Maybe something we can use in xmr too.

<m​alori:xavi.lu> ah right depends of client, sorry

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> don't sorry

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I can see it

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> What client?

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> No, I can too, from SchildiChat.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Apparently SNeedlewoods can too, because he +1 the reaction above.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Malori uses Nheko.

<m​alori:xavi.lu> from what i saw all the client that support the mxc for custom emote cab see the custom reaction (tho they may not be able to do it)

<m​alori:xavi.lu> from what i saw all the client that support the mxc for custom emote can see the custom reaction (tho they may not be able to do it)

<s​needlewoods:monero.social> by accident :D

<s​needlewoods:monero.social> but can see it with schildichat

<m​alori:xavi.lu> from what i saw all the client that support the msc for custom emote can see the custom reaction (tho they may not be able to do it)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Element x and shildi

<m​alori:xavi.lu> how is element x?

<m​alori:xavi.lu> havent been able to try it

Trash

Cant even search rooms

<m​alori:xavi.lu> ah

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Mαlοri: still WIP, but pretty good imo.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Shildi already has SchildiNext Beta for Android.

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> Couple missing great features, but otherwise loads much faster than legacy.

<m​alori:xavi.lu> yeah sliding sync

<m​alori:xavi.lu> i dont have enough room to be a problem tbh

<m​alori:xavi.lu> yet*

<r​ottenwheel:unredacted.org> A good combo is to have legacy Element on puter, SchildiNext on phone. When there's a missing feature you cannot work on phone, just hop on laptop, do it and since it's cross-platform, changes will go in effect on Android regardless of you being able to trigger them natively or not.

<0​xfffc:monero.social> github.com/model-checking/verify-rust-std

matrix sounds complicated

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> your name is neo cat

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Youre the one, aint ya

<m​alori:xavi.lu> still verymuch in dev