<3​21bob321:monero.social> CCS for botnet farming ?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> pretty much impossible to beat botnets

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> but thats what we get being cpu friendly

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> economically unviable when you are mining along with botnets

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats what she said

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No lol

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The security budget is 140k/mth. Thats what you get for having a small community of larpers 🙃

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> Calculate your Hardware investment for 5gh/s

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> i did before, let me pull up my numbers

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> Also calculate ROI with current price

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…ero.social/DTuyvqhHHphmzshhxDiKOfII

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This is 2-3 years old,when a ryzen 3900 rig would cost ~1000 to build

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> bitcoin used 223x more power and, iirc, was also about 250x more expensive per coin

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> and that was for 2.5gh/s

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Mhm. Double the numbers and halve the price for the rig

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> bcoz it has price security, it doesnt compete with botnets

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there is a level playing field

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> now calculate your ROI

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The ROI is based on the cost of xmr

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The energy costs of monero, assuming no botnets, is inline with the price of monero vs price of bitcoin

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Cant blame botnets for that

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> lol go and look xmrbtc since anti-asic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It was also for 215eh on btc

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> if you are investing in your hardware, you provide price support to not make it unprofitable mining your coin; with botnets is almost no cost

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> _the chart assumes there are no botnets and that every miner is paying for their electricity and hardware_

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> yah and there was no adoption

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We still are inline with simply being worth 250x less and doing 250x less work

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ? We were at 2.5gh like 2 months ago

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 30ktx/day has been steady for like 4 years

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> yah botnets are adopting it

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> no sensible person will invest in mining monero

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> your math isnt mathing

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> but sure you can mine with your botnets

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there is no price support by miners

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> This means that, assuming botnets, you can reduce the energy costs by like 80%

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And the hardware costs

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> more like 99%

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And then you see how much people actually spent to mine xmr, and its a pathetically low amount

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> as i said, nobody in right mind is going to buy hardware to mine xmr

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> you are competing against botnets and it will always be unprofitable

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But lets pretend botnets dont exist. Even in a perfect world, the amount $ spent mining is in a good ratio with btc

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its simply that ppl eould rather do like you, and whine, instead of mine

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> but you cant pretend its not botnet friendly and there will always be a botnet dumping coins irrespective of price

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Nobody in their right mind would mine btc if it wss 1/220th the market cap with 1/220th the adoption?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero is datacenter friendly, and bitcoin is warehouse friendly, whats your point?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> btc doesnt have other miners mining it with 1% of cost

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> if botnets disappeared today, the hashrate would drop to a few hundred megahash

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And probability would skyrocket to unsustainable levels, leading to massive selloffs until it equalized at like $30

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m still having the CMake 3.5 errors in anything related to Monero when I don’t go through and modify all the submodules

<p​reland:monero.social> I’m not losing it right?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> You are

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> What are you building

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> what branch, and on what base system

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> should have thought about that when you went anti asic

<p​reland:monero.social> Currently, Townforge

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Go buy some bitcoin and fackoff

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> we should go tari way, dual pow like someone suggested the other day & merge mine with a bigger chain

<p​reland:monero.social> Like it happens often enough that I’m tempted to build CMake pre-4.0 from source and just use that instead

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> maybe TF needs upfate

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> truth is bitter

<p​reland:monero.social> It’s submodules

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> nah, you just dont know how to do math

<p​reland:monero.social> So maybe yeah

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> tf is based on 1834 monero, probably

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero fixed cmake 3.5 issues in 18.4.1

<p​reland:monero.social> I’ll try to build Monero from scratch (its a new m4 mac, haven’t tried it on it yet)

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> and you can pretend most hashrate isnt botnet

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Who pretending? I said its like 80%(or more)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> But also that it has 0 effect on price in relation to profitability

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> If it did, monero would be worth $40

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> they increase hashrate as price increases, why allow competion ? they undercut legit miners with zero cost

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Botnets dont sell at their profit levels, they sell at ours

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They dont undercut a damn thing. The price of monero would be $40 is botnets didnt add the security

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> they just sell at price what liquidity providers set, only a handful; exchange ordrebooks are empty

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Your profit levels are only worth what it costs to produce a block

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No botnets? Drop the price by 80%

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> lol

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> Yah if you want to turn the switch off instantly sure

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> fluffy had warned about botnets but some ppl were running after buzz words

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> fluffy launched tari with 50% randomx

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> he pretty much left after he had forseen what would happen

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> No, he left after he got arrested

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> and scaled back bcoz of botnets

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> fk u talking about

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> he was arrested a few yrs latr, he only officialy dropped out ; he was almost inactive for a long period

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> lol.

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> running webservers and dns isnt being active

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> he was passive

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> anyways all this talk has been offtopic in this 'workgroup' , hopefully some sense comes in securing the chain and dont depend on unethical botnets

<p​reland:monero.social> Thank you for stating the name; the room has been glitched for at least 2 months now and I didn’t know which one it was lol

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> i mean what will fix it is the price going up

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> so someones just gotta make the NGU PR

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> i mean, didn't the last price spike precede the last hashrate spike?

<d​anielgreg:matrix.org> Imho no one is mining on Qubic or taking over miners, that's not how it works. It's the operator himself. The question is how has he accumulated this much hashrate? Ofc you can buy or rent the hardware, but I only see money getting burnt, and I doubt it's a botnet.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> took a look at 134. {{{Qualcomm’s “QSEE”}}} (((TrustZone))) [[[ Trustonic’s “Kinibi]]] doing anything involving TEE means talking like an intel sales person. I don't understand why anyone would ever consider TEE as good for anything. The trust assumptions that come with it are ridiculous. I dislike the idea that we have to buy devices that contain this tricknology. I hop<clipped message>

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> e for a future where semiconductor fabrication becomes more accessible and there are open source chips that are free of this garbage.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> Its not just that I hate the technology. I hate what it stands for. The future that comes with it.

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> yeah, i think he has access to some cluster that he can use when idle. hence the weekend activity and burstiness

<h​bs:matrix.org> Do we have any idea of the number of actual block producers on both networks? My intuition is that the numbers may be closer than the devices ratio

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> no

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The ratio just assumed if the device listed was 100% of the network

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> at the time, the s19 xp hyd.. was the best btc miner available, but not the most widely used

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> Just my 2 cent, but someone could easily crash the QBIC price to zero for days, it just has to absorb the orderbook for QBIC/USDT which is only on TradeOgre now at 67k$.

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> Or even better, pay TradeOgre to close QBIC/USDT trades for like a week or maybe more which would be cheaper if they would accept.

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> If they don't have a way to buy QUBIC witht he mined monero, they can't pump their price and make it profitable for the miners

<h​bs:matrix.org> If you drain the order book wouldn't the qbic price go up rather than down? You would need to flood it with QBIC to increase supply for the price to crash

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> [@gingeropolous:monero.social](https://matrix.to/#/@gingeropolous:monero.social) is it you or someone else "writing" the code for monetosim?

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> when it was 2.5 Gh the price was $160

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> Now the price is 2x and the hashrate is 2x

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> 7950x is break even at ~12 cents per kWhr

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> as far as "dumping coins", there's not even enough emission at this point to suppress the price. yearly inflation is well under 1%

<d​m4you:matrix.org> Does qubic stopped mining?

<d​m4you:matrix.org> miningpoolstats.stream/monero

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Should start muting ppl who show up in community to ask abt qubic 🤣

<d​m4you:matrix.org> Does qubic stopped mining? Seems dead

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> qubi-

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> *boom*

<d​m4you:matrix.org> Oh it started again

<d​m4you:matrix.org> damn

HR increased from 2.5GH/s before the price moved

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> HR increase has been less volatile than price for sure but even at a flat price you expect hashrate to increase over time as more efficient miners come to market

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I don't know if it "works", but this is probably the most blatant yoloing of slop ive ever seen. 1 million line commits of AI summarizing what it did, virt environments, incorrect info / hallucinations. This isnt AI assisted, its AI yolo'd, by someone who a) doesnt know how to use git b) doesnt know how to use python c) doesnt care d) all e) idek

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i think it sets terrible precedent to fund such careless slop

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Reminds me of this monero-project/monero-gui #4445

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> i'm learning as I go / its evolving. I wanted to get this to a clean state before showing how its going, but i was encouraged to show how its going. it'll get less sloppy as it evolves

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> are you the one making these commits? Or did you hire someone to do this?

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> sometimes the bot gets a little too into it and makes commits.

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> despite instructions not to. which is why i created a new github account for this, because i don't fully trust it obvi

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Fountain5405/monerosim 82b15a3

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> yeah. so?

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> i don't expect people to be investigating the diffs on this. right? there's no need to. git is really just functioning as a checkpoint system for me so i can revert if things get outta hand

<g​ingeropolous:monero.social> so no, this project, at the current state, is not going to have little commits that are designed for someone else to review and what have you. It's full-on make this thing work please thank you

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> thats 1.1 million lines of "wtf"

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe 10k lines are ok

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> _maybe_

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Is a strong work, because AI made (and noted) at least a few incorrect assumptions (such as monero default connections being 8in 64 out)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Or setting to log-level=4

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Strong word*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> > full-on make this thing work please thank you

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah. Its not AI assisted. Its AI yolo'd

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> The orderbook is composed both of bids and asks, 67k $ was on the bids, so for the short position.

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> In the meanwhile i read x.com/cryptocomicon/status/1950035689275625756

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> His point about transaction reverting is valid, the most he cloud do with 51% is create disservice and random double spends (if even that).

<u​nwantedfondue:matrix.org> So not as bad as other transparent chains.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> UnwantedFondue: Not true at all. A traditional double-spend facilitated by a 51% hashpower attack assumes that the attacker reverts their own transactions. Of course, the attacker knows which txs belong to them, even if most info about txs is hidden from other observers.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Just read the bitcoin white paper:

<r​ucknium:monero.social> > We consider the scenario of an attacker trying to generate an alternate chain faster than the honest chain. Even if this is accomplished, it does not throw the system open to arbitrary changes, such as creating value out of thin air or taking money that never belonged to the attacker. Nodes are not going to accept an invalid transaction as payment, and honest nodes will never ac<clipped message>

<r​ucknium:monero.social> cept a block containing them. An attacker can only try to change one of his own transactions to take back money he recently spent

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Nym nodes voted in favor of an exit policy changed to allow traffic on ports 18080, 18081, and 18089 for Monero:

<r​ucknium:monero.social> governator.nym.com/proposal/prop-d0c0d398-43bd-4a6f-b008-1921b64ae4ed

<r​ucknium:monero.social> forum.nym.com/t/nip-3-nym-exit-policy-update/1462