<321bob321> Doesnt recanman do management of the selfhosted parts of kon ?

<321bob321> @siren:kernal.eu: Ptsd

<stnby:kernal.eu> @321bob321: He has been missing for like half a year.

<321bob321> Rug pulled

sgp_: “Monero Core, through the Monero Distribution Corporation (a Delaware for-profit) owns the “Monero” trademark.” <—- were more directors added to this LLC? Last I checked it was only Ric.

“can't find 5 other active members to serve in board capacity” <—- wow, monero people don’t want to be on the board of a nonprofit run by a blockchain surveillance dude? i’m shocked

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> how can anyone own the trademark

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> no one owns the bitcoin trademark and that's why it's great

exactly. Ric decided to squat on it to "protect it". then he bailed with 867+ XMR and now sgp is parroting nonsense as usual

btw a nonprofit holds no benefit over a simple LLC for the purpose of controlling a web domain, since no money is going to be flowing through it

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> his excuses in that thread are some of the worst sbf tier bs i've seen

<321bob321> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: Craig wright

he's not even idling in here anymore, lol. just bailed with a community wallet and a trademark in his pocket.

<c99e:matrix.org> wtf, when did this theft happen? > <geonic> exactly. Ric decided to squat on it to "protect it". then he bailed with 867+ XMR and now sgp is parroting nonsense as usual

<c99e:matrix.org> And who is Ric?

<c99e:matrix.org> Sorry I am behind on Monero drama news

<hashido:matrix.org> geonic: There is no need to jump to conclusions, we should remain calm. This Saturday at 16:00 UTC, the future of MonerKon will be decided by a vote, with AJS promising to respect the outcome.

<hashido:matrix.org> While it's true that we cannot rely on promises alone, and AJS has already failed to act in good faith, show respect, or demonstrate basic adult behavior, we should wait for the vote before deciding on the community's next steps.

<hashido:matrix.org> In short: wait, vote according to your own judgment, and develop a protocol to prevent something like this from happening again.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4qGr0pQLR3FnMGpx ]

is "->" the new emdash

👉

<midipoet:matrix.org> @hashido:matrix.org: We don't know what the vote is though.

<midipoet:matrix.org> It wasn't even clear in the first vote. I was definitely confused and others didn't seem to know what the options represented.

<midipoet:matrix.org> Perhaps the meeting this weekend can be used to understand what to do with the infra/domains in the interim?

<321bob321> I thought there was a bitwarden setup with the passwords for this ?

<321bob321> And doesn't TE pay for the domains and email

<stnby:kernal.eu> @321bob321: Wish to know this as well :D Because I assumed it was a property of TWED

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ajs-xmr:matrix.org: lol I just realized this.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XoCdOSvbSwYRWLKwgYXdXvAd.png (image.png)

<vostoemisio:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: That's very dishonest, I brought it up in my comment as it disturbed me quite a bit

<vostoemisio:matrix.org> (on github)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> We (and I) certainly did NOT vote to privatize MK. I vote that in 2027, OF's LLC should be organizing it.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> NOT the same

<hashido:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: Ruhe! You privatisation scum (just joking)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/tZglErRDVVPeKCSSUQWdLkiu.png (image.png)

<@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/LqQaTExOtyFQcuxzMpLXLSRR.png (2026-07-08-13-00-26.png)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> This is also not true.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: Ajs has not been doing anything for the past 2 MKs

<@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> List of enemies of the people to be executed.

<hashido:matrix.org> Those of us who abstained are not on the list, but it is only a matter of time...

<orangefren:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/DsldeqGiIVXHPCUkDanPqzmF.png (image.png)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @hashido:matrix.org: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/PEjFHyaqHTnEwUMcSzSoxHJy.png (image.png)

<hashido:matrix.org> LMAO

<vostoemisio:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: Why was I removed from the photograph

<orangefren:matrix.org> Learn to vote the right way Vosto

<user2570:unredacted.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: Lol, I just wanted to post the same image))

<comradeblin:matrix.org> engel.4lice.com/angeltypes/about

<comradeblin:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XqSyvzedHUUzaaEZOTjZzHPg.png (image.png)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> How nice! We got MK7 dates

<@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: List of those who abstained from voting.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/boLULmryUVeGCIquObGMEBjS.png (image.png)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> 💀

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Who's privatizing what now? 🤣

<@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> The boss is working his ass off, and you, you ungrateful bastard, still have the nerve to say anything here. > <@comradeblin:matrix.org> How nice! We got MK7 dates

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @TheFuzzStone:matrix.org: I have officially lost all my respect for ajs after seeing this site.

<@TheFuzzStone:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: The corporate raider.

<hashido:matrix.org> You wouldn’t understand. It was the for-profit option for the people

yo yo, what site?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @hashido:matrix.org: /s ?

<joel:kernal.eu> the for profit "non profit" option

I just joined the room, and it's IRC. I have no backlog.

no sarcasm.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @joel:kernal.eu: non for profit non profit profit option

<plowsof:matrix.org> memes and spam

You can keep your semantics rage bait to yourself.

What site are we talking about?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: memes ang cringing hence spam

<hashido:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: I was being ironic 😄

<comradeblin:matrix.org> I was about to say... How dare you have your own opinion?

<orangefren:matrix.org> Did the boss allow you to have an opinion of your own??

<hashido:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/wyAvbiTbiodyQYpquQxwxmss.gif (the-punisher-no-no-no-wait-wait-wait.gif)

<plowsof:matrix.org> enough of the gifs/memes/spam

<hashido:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: Ups! Yes my bad, sorry

you can keep your shitshow on all you want, you have a new reply on github. ;) monero-project/meta #1417#issuecomment-4914703435

dukenukem: libera.monerologs.net/monero-community/20260708

<sgp_> I meant 5 other people total to do their own thing > <geonic> “can't find 5 other active members to serve in board capacity” <—- wow, monero people don’t want to be on the board of a nonprofit run by a blockchain surveillance dude? i’m shocked

<sgp_> why haven't you or anyone else started your own monero supporting charity

<sgp_> TE counts, but only kinda since it's folding

<siren:kernal.eu> None of the MoneroKon volunteers have access to infra or socials right now. Our vaultwarden password store were taken down. None of us can access servers, CDN, registrars and email. OF didn't have access to any of these platforms and the password manager. This was totally unnecessary.

<siren:kernal.eu> Valuable information about past events, event planning info in mattermost are also inaccessible.

<ct:xmr.mx> Very cool ajs to not only revoke access, but also outright steal information that used to be public.

<ct:xmr.mx> This is the real hostile takeover if I ever saw one

<siren:kernal.eu> This is unacceptable, unstable behavior. He already had admin accounts on the CDN and the pass manager. We didn't have enough privileges to revoke his access.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and he could have easily just backed everything up in case he was paranoid

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> instead, he has binaryFate's backing and think he can cosplay as kongod, the savior

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> for anyone who read bFs comment, i almost fell out of my chair. i didnt expect him to be so gullible

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> hopefully, at the meeting, all of this evidence is brought forward, and that he attends

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> to play devils advocate, he has supported all of the early kons via his llc, funding, and donations from the generalfund. but he doesnt seem to be keen to the fact that he's being played for a fool

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> tldr: i believe ajs is acting so aggressively, because he has core's (bF's) backing

<siren:kernal.eu> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I believe this too. I anticipate them to not care about Saturday's vote.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> which is also funny. he thinks that a single man can veto community and justify his actions

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> bF's post is also in bad taste, but again, hes just echoing what hes been told. the idea that he should claim that monerokon is a group of volunteers, cypherpunk etc, while defending someone who paid his friends and wants to be paid a years wage to run the next conference, hijacked the socials, and is acting like a dictato

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> is hilariously out of touch. it obvious that bF's only context is what hes been told by someone that he trusts

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the person who is in his ear, is the exact opposite of everything bf is describing

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and the real volunteers are the people that bF is shitting on

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> who is he to say that those 12(?) people who attend meetings and assist with organization year after year (unlike ajs, who abandoned ship), voices dont matter?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its always a shame when, instead of solving problem, youre stuck correcting misinformation

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "i kicked everyone from everything to protect monerkon"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> imagine plowsof banned everyone right now, and luigi started closing pull requests and archived the repo

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> for the good of monero, i need to be sen palpatine

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ajs was never the elected leader of monerokon. he is acting like everything which he would like to accuse OF of, minus having a successful biz

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> even framing OF as a swap provider, is funny. the orangefren service is just an aggregator that uses referral links.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> orangefren isnt fixedfloat, changenow, changells

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but this is framed like were giving monerkon to changelly

<siren:kernal.eu> @midipoet:matrix.org @anhdres:matrix.org > <@siren:kernal.eu> None of the MoneroKon volunteers have access to infra or socials right now. Our vaultwarden password store were taken down. None of us can access servers, CDN, registrars and email. OF didn't have access to any of these platforms and the password manager. This was totally unnecessary.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its PERFECTTLY OK to have cake wallet (also an aggregator) fund the conference. trocador as well. AND ORANGEFREN

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but not ok to have vik run one?

<siren:kernal.eu> @siren:kernal.eu: @anhdres:matrix.org @midipoet:matrix.org

<ct:xmr.mx> He most likely has. Now it also makes sense why he took the vote in stride on Saturday: it was essential that none of use expects a thing, sobhe can do his preparations > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and he could have easily just backed everything up in case he was paranoid

<monerobull:matrix.org> We should drain the jet fund and go on vacation > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> imagine plowsof banned everyone right now, and luigi started closing pull requests and archived the repo

<monerobull:matrix.org> As a service to the community!

<monerobull:matrix.org> Otherwise the money is just sitting there and that is sad 😢

zzz...

@hashido I wasn’t talking about MoneroKon

sgp_: what is TE?

<sgp_> Twisted Edwards, the nonprofit established by others for MoneroKon

<hashido:matrix.org> geonic: Oh! Sorry then

right. to answer your question, I haven’t created a nonprofit because I frankly don’t see a need for one

it seems TE didn’t generate any “profit” anyway so its nonprofit status was superfluous

was/is

<plowsof:matrix.org> iirc the non profit was for fiat things, VAT numbers on invoices, there was even an accountant getting paid to do nothing for a few months, that type of stuff

<plowsof:matrix.org> monerokon was relying on Digital Renegades (or bF personally) to handle the fiat things

exactly, just unnecessary bureaucracy because “nonprofit” sounds good. Amazon and Apple are technically nonprofits in many jurisdictions (:

<siren:kernal.eu> There is damage to MK infra right now. And the much bragged about legal protections of the nonprofit are not being used to restore access and kick the sabotaging member.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> geonic: I think it was more to remove liability from ajs and onto the nonprofit

<sgp_> How do you think the Monero related audits get contracted? Or the venues get signed for? > <geonic> right. to answer your question, I haven’t created a nonprofit because I frankly don’t see a need for one

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Remember, the reason he retired was because he said he didnt wsnt to be invokved w/o some company to be liable

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And the initial suggestion for for @monerobull:matrix.org to be the sole owner of an company that ajs & co could organize under

<ct:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org: We needed a way to deal with fiat, that was the primary reason why TE exists. That's why its so lean

<sgp_> @siren:kernal.eu: Isn’t that mostly due to the other board members not doing anything? Has there been a single board meeting following this?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The nonprofit was only moved fwd with when mbll rejected the plan

<stnby:kernal.eu> @sgp_: There was not a single meeting since the founding date XD

<siren:kernal.eu> @stnby:kernal.eu: This is wrong. There were at least 3 meetings.

<sgp_> Ok so that’s not an instance of all nonprofits being bad, but bad setup was bad

<ct:xmr.mx> @sgp_: Both other members (midipoet + anhdres) are aware, but can not do anything about this. There is only one director

<stnby:kernal.eu> @siren:kernal.eu: Oh really?

<siren:kernal.eu> @ct:xmr.mx: They can vote ajs out.

<siren:kernal.eu> There are 3 directors ajs is appointed managing member

<siren:kernal.eu> @sgp_: I'm expecting them to help restore the infra. They work day jobs I believe and there's a timezone difference. But for now no action was taken.

<siren:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/…gQHgliuejy7zqy4rQpoCAAAAAAAAAAA.pdf (Stanovy - Twisted Edwards z. s. - EN.pdf)

<siren:kernal.eu> Statues of association for TE. If anybody is interested.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Midi would never do that > <@siren:kernal.eu> They can vote ajs out.

<hashido:matrix.org> @anhdres:matrix.org: has said that he will wait until Saturday before doing anything. In any case, it would certainly be appreciated if they could get ajs to restore access to volunteers.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @siren:kernal.eu: I'm proposing a quiz on them before the vote on saturday. Anyone who answer's any of the quiz questions wrong shouldn't be able to vote, as they would be voting on something they have no idea about.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> kinda joking, but not really

<sgp_> The only votes that are actually enforceable are the board member votes

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @hashido:matrix.org: Currently theres no rush

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> We need some specifics to avoid a noisefest at the meeting

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @sgp_: no vote on MK's future is enforcible as mk is not a trademark under TE

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What questions need to be asked and answred?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What are we voting on?

<orangefren:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: > What does OF stand for?

<orangefren:matrix.org> > OnlyFans 🤔

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: We don't know that yet either

<comradeblin:matrix.org> :D

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @orangefren:matrix.org: Stands for OFrnxmr

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Oh, whoops. that was a quiz question

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: I'll need to know so that we can avoid a filibuster

sgp_: you seem to forget that audits were being successfully completed before your nonprofit existed. the fact that you inserted yourself into this process does not mean that your nonprofit is indispensable

<sgp_> Ok you do it then

unnecessary. crypto auditors can accept XMR directly. and venue contracts can be signed by any LLC.

for the record, I’m happy to volunteer my LLC if needed

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> This. We need to stay laser focused on what actually matters. Because very likely, there will be alot of noise made about red herrings, fillibusters, and basically running out the clock with no actual progress or resolution. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What questions need to be asked and answred?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I propose:

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> 1. Restore access to those who have had access. Including to those who've had access revoked on things not even relevant to MK

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> 2. That the community is okay with a for-profit organizing MK in the future, given the failure of TE to organize MK6

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> 3. ajs transfer control of ALL the resources he manages to someone who is actually trustworthy. The nature of that stewardship to be decided at a future meeting. (whether we go with a non-corporate monetary incentive model, or non-profit custodian).

"Let the noise makers keep zzzing like flies and rage baiting each other into oblivion."

bawdyanarchist go back to X and X spaces. save everything the community meeting. ;)

<ofrnxmr> To word these differently

<ofrnxmr> 1. Was ajs' justified in revoking access to all community properties that he had admin access to, if not, should access be restored or should we skip to q2.

<ofrnxmr> 2. Should ajs continue as custodian of the the various properties

<ofrnxmr> 3. ratifying the vote regarding the host of mk7

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Ah sorry. I was framing it as goals/desire. You're trying to be more neutral by framing the questions

<ofrnxmr> The question about profit vs nonprofit should be framed as, should orangefren publicly bill monerkon ~40k for his services? and then, if there isnt enough money, he can take the rest from TE or CCS /s

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> That's more appropriate for the meeting agenda

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I think that the profit/non question is already bundled in with, "who does the community want to run MK7."

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> By voting for Orange, we're voting that for-profit is acceptable.

<ofrnxmr> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: i was being sarcastic (/s)

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> oh, lol

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> btw, where did that $40k number originate? ajs is saying that it's an hourly billing regime.

<ofrnxmr> I think it changed at some point

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> (proposed regime)

<ofrnxmr> Iirc it was 43k

<ofrnxmr> Then when rejected, he modified so that he can just scribble invoices for his hiurly billing so that it adds up to 43k

<ofrnxmr> Of course, this would still be a volunteer lead monerkon /s

and 10000 messages were sent today by the mosquitoes zzzing in circles. fun!

.bbl

<ofrnxmr> I find is ridiculous that the claim is that kon is volunteer run. The first one was altruistic and took a toll on surae. The ones lead by ajs had friends and family being paid large amounts, while others thanklessly volunteered

ajs proposed the 43k, community rejected and proposed hourly, ajs accepted

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> If it's not a pita, do you have a screenshot of that? Coz ajs is saying that the $40k is a "mischaracterization"

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> nioc: That seems like a mistake actually. It's easy to run up hourly costs. I'm sure that was all hashed out then tho

<ofrnxmr> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: Liars gonna lie

I am going from memory so............ it's all written in the meeting

<ofrnxmr> I'm going off of he-said-she-said, since i stopped bothering myself with these shenanigans years ago

BL both sides seemed ok with that

<ofrnxmr> this is far from ajs first time treating kon (and even TE) like his privately owned project. I remember before vost was selected to do the designs, he had preselected some random person that nobody knew and didnt give community a chance

<ofrnxmr> Then gave like 24hrs for potential designers to submit their proposals

also from memory, once the volunteers rejected paying an lead organizer ajs bowed out of MK5

we are currently playing blind men and the elephant

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> There's definitely a pattern of shady behavior there. Hosting an anonymous venue vote on his personal Nextcloud, before selecting the organizer for MK7 ... That's not exactly the best faith

hopefully we can agree what the elephant looks like :)

<ofrnxmr> Then, as soon as TE was formed, he and/or msvb went and obtained all of the assets for orague blockchain week, and planned to take it over using TE (all before the first monerokon, before any dust had settled). Absokutelt zero consultation with the community or TE about it

"after feedback, it was changed to a dynamic weekly basis" from monero-project/meta #1417#issuecomment-4914878569

<ofrnxmr> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: Did you see his website?

<ofrnxmr> He already designed and deployed mk7 website for his llc

🐘

like this?

<ofrnxmr> engel.4lice.com

<ofrnxmr> engel.4lice.com/angeltypes/about

<ofrnxmr> "MK7, from 2027-06-25 to 2027-06-27"

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> None of this looks very good. Unfortunately, documenting and presenting the full canvas painting of this pattern of behavior is probably well outside the scope of the meeting on Saturday. Suffice it to say, those of us feeling up this elephant have a reasonable inference into what's happening.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: God what a horribly done website.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> If his security skills are on par with his design skills, it's a wonder no one has pwned his site. Probably because that's how little anyone cares.

responsible disclosure is always an option

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Yes, no need to fuel the flames here

You're absolutely right!

ajs has contributed more than most in this room so it would be nice to give him the benefit of the doubt

<hashido:matrix.org> I share your opinion as he might have the right motivation but the actions we have seen are not acceptable still

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Until he went rouge, I think a lot of us would've been totally okay with his continued stewardship of the infra/socials.

<ofrnxmr> Its pretty obvious engel.4lice.com/angeltypes/about that he doesnt have the right motivation

<ofrnxmr> He counted his chickens and then they didnt lay eggs, now he's left with this sunk time and money

<ofrnxmr> When did communiry agree on any of the stuff posted on that link?

not offering any excuses for him, just saying that it would be nice to remain polite as we work through this. let's all chill until Saturday

<ofrnxmr> Wifi tech support? Fr?

<ofrnxmr> @geonic i can try

<pw:xmr.mx> shoot those darn useless chickens > <@ofrnxmr> He counted his chickens and then they didnt lay eggs, now he's left with this sunk time and money

what's there to agree on? anyone can organize a MoneroKon, no?

<ofrnxmr> But also, saving politeness for saturday

<ofrnxmr> geonic: Not anymore

<ofrnxmr> Before this, yes. Now, its a problem that orangefren is hosting one in 2027

I haven't heard him say that he's the only one organizing MK in the future, and I haven't heard him refuse to hand over access should people go in that direction. actually I believe he has said the opposite?

a problem for whom? I think we're reading a lot between the lines here and putting words in peoples' mouths

<ofrnxmr> geonic: He did say the opposite, numerous times. But not that OF is organizing, he revokes access to all properties from anyone who didnt vote for him

<ofrnxmr> Now* that

<ct:xmr.mx> actions always speak louder then words

give me a screenshot

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> He seriously started blocking people who merely abstained from voting.

<ct:xmr.mx> I would not call that "reading between the lines"

<ofrnxmr> Screenshot of him kicking orangefren fron monerokon room?

maybe he's paranoid. aren't we all?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> monero-project/meta #1417

<ofrnxmr> Or screenshot of him saying he'd transfer the properties to someone else? Or screenshot of him saying he wasnt going to be invokved with mk anymore? All 3 exist

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Please review that thread. Screenshots are there, along with timeline synopsis. And btw, there's more than what just there, in terms of kicking people

is this the actual question that you voted on? "Should MoneroKon be converted into a privately controlled commercial enterprise, or should it remain a non-profit public-good initiative?"

<ofrnxmr> No

I don't see a link to the chat logs

<ofrnxmr> He didnt post those meeting logs

<ofrnxmr> (someone will tell you the exact vote question soon)

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: We ONLY voted that @orangefren:matrix.org should run MK7

<jbabb:cypherstack.com> it would be helpful to link the MoneroKon room :) this link is also helpful monero-project/meta #1417

that's ridiculous framing then. no one is converting anything here and I've heard both of you argue for community control over infra/socials

the "nonprofit" vs "for-profit" distinction is a red herring. no one cares whether MK turns a profit or not, we care that events are held and that they reflect community values. in fact, it is better if it turns a profit because that means the events are sustainable

<ofrnxmr> (you have a bunch of 💯 reactions jsyk)

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Exactly. I think everyone recognizes that the pure-volunteer model became untenable due to growth. So whether it's a personal fee of $43k, an hourly wage, or an LLC, someone is going to profit/income from MK. That's not even in question afaict.

<ofrnxmr> And accordong to ajs, 43k isnt a profit, its a wage. So, if orangefren "profited" less than that, is it a profit?

<jbabb:cypherstack.com> I'd prefer things be done as rings and each member have equal roles and equal payout and vote eachother out based on laziness-based-consensus

it's actually pretty disappointing that it hasn't been able to turn a profit after being bootstrapped by the community for 5+ years. that reflects badly on the organizers.

<jbabb:cypherstack.com> in true monero spirit

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> If ajs had merely proposed that he and Twisted Edwards maintain custody/stewardship of the infra and socials, bound in good faith to the community will; granting access to entities running MK, I think we'd have all agreed. It would've been a 30 min conversation

<ofrnxmr> It did turn a profit in mk4 and mk5 iirc

<ofrnxmr> Ccs was 100xmr, they have 150 in the wallet

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> After his behavior though, I dont think that's a reasonable option anymore, sadly.

<ofrnxmr> (the ccs wasnt needed, they are up 50xmr w/o ccs)

<ofrnxmr> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: Ajs did this for mk6, withiut issue. But as soon as mk7 wasnt chosen in his favor, he had a literal meltdown

<ofrnxmr> He accepted that he lost the vote, and said he didnt want to cont being involved with mk, and would coordinate handover of the assets with the mk5/mk6 teams. Then he left the room

<ofrnxmr> He rejoined, and IMMEDIATELY kicked orangefren out of the room

<ofrnxmr> Then he posted on the monerokon twitter that the organizer for mk7 was not decided

<ofrnxmr> Then he removed access for contributors aside from himself, from everything he had custody of

<ofrnxmr> Its hard to give benefit of the doubt when this was all unfolding in public, in real time, directly involving actions against multiple people

<jbabb:cypherstack.com> it's a public crashout

btw, I think this fiasco has shown that the decentralization theater through "nonprofit boards" is just that. as siren said, "the much bragged about legal protections of the nonprofit are not being used to restore access and kick the sabotaging member". I would much rather hand infra to a disinterested, known individual than to another pointless

board. at the end of the day we're trusting a specific person to hold the keys.

some people I would nominate would be hbs, monerobull, and midipoet (if he can handle the technical requirements)

nioc too

or maybe hand the website to one person and socials to another for added confusion? (:

<siren:kernal.eu> geonic: We had a vaultwarden instance before it was taken down. In there certain groups of people had access to different socials and parts of infra. We had access control. Ajs was superadmin.

please don't nominate me that requires anything technical :D

siren: how can the process be improved?

make binaryFate superadmin? we're already trusting him with getmonero.org

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: You should read his reply in that github thread.

<siren:kernal.eu> geonic: Stnby is actively trying to restore access to the servers.

I did. I think he has taken what ajs wrote at face value. if putting community assets under a for-profit entity is not under consideration, then I think he's on board with what you're proposing?

siren: I mean going forward. what would you like to see happen/be decided on Saturday

new structure altogether or just ajs hand superadmin keys over? and hand them to whom?

<siren:kernal.eu> First of all I don't care for a new structure. We're investigating to what extend MK's infra is nuked. All CDN rules and DNS records were removed. None of us can SSH in or access via IP either. I just want credentials to be handed over to the current volunteers.

<siren:kernal.eu> Luckily OF had credentials to the Hetzner account. We had a dedicated server running Proxmox with VMs there. That me and Stnby set up 3 years ago. Stnby should have updates whether if any VMs were wiped or not. Even if we recover vaultwarden data, I don't trust ajs anymore to not have changed the social media and other credentials just to lock us out.

<siren:kernal.eu> But at least we might be able to recover pretix, pretalx and mattermost data. Although it's not looking good because I can't access anything by adding it to my /etc/hosts file. Looks like VMs may have been turned off (we don't have proxmox credentials since Vaultwarden is inaccessible) or deleted.

<siren:kernal.eu> Even if nothing was deleted, we certainly would have appreciated a grace period and a prior warning to migrate out of TE before he rage deleted the DNS and CDN rules. Well I guess the point was to lock us out and slow us down anyway while he was setting up a fully separate infra for his alternative MoneroKon.

<siren:kernal.eu> We'd have acted quick. It would take a few hours for us to backup or migrate but no, this was totally disruptive. And he's not even around.

there would need to be a new superadmin, no? who should that person be and should that be a question decided only among the volunteers or with input from the broader community?

<siren:kernal.eu> In our vaultwarden I too had that privilege. Recan and Stnby additionally had infra access (no socials).

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: Pre discussion is encouraged, but I think that's perhaps the primary question of business for the Saturday meeting, which the larger group will need to decide

yes, all we're doing is working on the agenda for the Saturday meeting. if we're going to nominate people to take over from ajs, it would be helpful to have a few days for that, no?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Definitely. It's a great idea to brainstorm and solicit interest ahead of time

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Also, I have a revamped proposal for Saturday agenda? Trying to frame this neutrally:

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> 1. Should control of the infra/socials be separated from entities organizing future MoneroKon?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> * Which physical person will custody the MoneroKon resources?[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/77zG5JQLbDc2eXdO ]

<elongated:matrix.org> Can you guys move MK discussions to MK group ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: id reword "control" to "custody"

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> We're only here because ajs sought broader community review of this issue. And it's not a small issue.

elongated: sorry, this pertains to the Saturday meeting that will be held in this room

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @elongated:matrix.org: no. its been escalated

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> In other words, he asked us to move discussion from MK to here

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> binaryfate as well

<siren:kernal.eu> The old custodians were basically this: Me, stnby, recanman (comradeblin is a good replacement) for infra. ceetee, dadajo, vostoemisio, hbs for socials. There were more people with access to socials and other stuff but I can't remember nor check since vaultwarden is inaccessible.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> according to that "side": of the argument, the monerokon room voting is null

I would rephrase #2. Does the community wish to grant @OrangeFren license to organize MoneroKon Warsaw in 2027?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its not a license

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its just does community wish to ACK orangefren as organizer of mk7

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the further question would be whether orangefrens mk should be allowed to use monerokon socials and post talks to the community workgroup youtube, as done for mk6

if we're going to allow multiple organizers, I think we should move away from the sequential numbering of MoneroKons and use the name of the city instead

MK6 and MK7 only holds meaning for a small group of people

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i dont think the numbers are official, im just using it to say "the next mk"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its a litte bit longwinded to say "monerokon warsaw 2027"

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: That's a possibility. And ofc anyone is free to use the name "MoneroKon." But the broader community should decide whether or not an organizing entity should have access to the domain/socials.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or "monerokon undecided location 2027"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (we cant use name of city if it isnt decided yet)

we shouldn't limit ourselves to one monerokon per year is what I'm saying. if someone else comes along (including ajs) and wants to do a monerokon before next summer, I think we should remain open that

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Definitely

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> agreed. there has never been a limit on how many mks or who can organize them

<elongated:matrix.org> geonic: Monerokons

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> If we find ourselves in a position where the community desires that multiple MKs be wrapped into the the same domain/socials, then I think we can cross that sort of nym-bridge when we get there.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its just been yearly because more than 1 wasnt reasonable, and mk6 wasnt even going to happen

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I think we're all hoping that we can have at least one MK each year

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so trying to do 1 a year, was already hard to do

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> having orangefren get it done in 5 months means that its now known to be possibly to organize one in less than 12 months, if done efficiently

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> It is pretty ironic that the guy who pretty much dipped out 2 years running, now wants the trust of the community that they wont do the same again

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 2/4 years, right?

ok, so for item #2: "Does the community wish to grant @OrangeFren nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> he had access in 2026, fwiw

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and not to the website

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the website is a git repo

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> "Does the community wish to continue @OrangeFren's nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?"

yeah that sounds good

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> it was revoked

<orangefren:matrix.org> 9 women can carry to term 1 baby in a month > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> having orangefren get it done in 5 months means that its now known to be possibly to organize one in less than 12 months, if done efficiently

<orangefren:matrix.org> Multiple MKs in a year is something I considered doing but let's stay focused on just 1 MK7 for now

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so you cant continue :D

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @orangefren:matrix.org: nono, i just meant that, if community wanted to do one at some point, its no longer a blocker

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> since it doesnt take 12 months to get it done, and because you can get one done without 12 months

the website can become contentious if there is more than one MK planned at any one time so it's best to retain "community control" TM over that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "Does the community wish to continue @OrangeFren's nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i think this question is too specific

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the question is, oragefren organizing mk7, y/n

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if yes, are we extending access to socials

no. that sounds exclusive

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nono

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the argument is that of should NOT be allowed to host at all

"you can't do a monerokon because the community voted I'm doing it"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so we need to clear THAT part up

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Hmm, perhaps the naming question resolves itself. I prefer to say "MK7" in the question as ofrn suggests, and anyone else that comes along, can have MK_City/person/flavor

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> community needs to vote that a monerokon can be hosted by OF

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: we can always rename mk7 to mkcity when the city is confirmed

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they can still be sequential, since they arent going to be happening on the same weekend

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> like ufc 300, ufc 301

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> MK7_city

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> But only if we end up with more than 1 MK approved by the community for access to socials/website

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Otherwise, MK7 is fine. No reason to be verbose from the start.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the point of contention is "corporate raider orangefren should not be allowed to host mk7__"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and until the community agrees, they should be kicked from the socials

the numbering is fine for internal discussion, but for clarity it's better to advertise it with the name of the city and year (once known)

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I think it's better to frame our desired outcome as a positive desire, not the negation of a negative

"Does the community wish to continue @OrangeFren's nonexclusive access to use the MK website and socials for a MoneroKon in 2027?" is clear and actioanble

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its not

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> because ORANGEFREN ISNT ALLOWED TO HOST

by whom?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> bf and ajs

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> that is the entire point of this drama

<joel:kernal.eu> by the boss

no. the only point of contention here is the website and socials

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> of was voted to host, ajs vetoed is, got bf to join him, kicked everyone from socials, now were here

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I think either phrasing is fine, honestly

<sgp_> Yeah the core issue is the transfer of custody without potential recourse if things go wrong, no?

bf is against the folding of community assets into a for-profit company (I would hope this applies to nonprofits too)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there is no transfer of custody that was being debated

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> that was never in the cards

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> that is a made up buyllshit

<pw:xmr.mx> sure you said this 3 times now > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> of was voted to host, ajs vetoed is, got bf to join him, kicked everyone from socials, now were here

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its only in the card BECAUSE ajs fucked around

<sgp_> It may be made up but is that the concern anyway?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Well, transfer to someone else, just not ajs or Orange. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there is no transfer of custody that was being debated

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if ajs didnt kick everyone and hijack the socials, then custody was never an issue

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @sgp_: it is now, yes

<sgp_> It was always a potential issue. Hence the cause of why people are complaining now

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but the issue was not created regarding socials. it was created regarding hosting

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Too bad the non-profit TE doesnt seem to be helping in this regard right now

"<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if ajs didnt kick everyone and hijack the socials, then custody was never an issue" <-- and OF would've continued planning undisturbed. so the only issue here is account access, not who is holding the next MK.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> geonic: not true

the irc matrix bridge in the MK room was taken down 5 hrs ago

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> However, despite the drama, I do believe that ajs has confirmed multiple times that he will cede control of the socials/infra, depending on the outcome of the meeting

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: he said this after the vote..

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> nioc: More evidence why ajs cannot be trusted with custody any longer

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> said he would walk away from mk, didnt want to be involved, and would coordinate with mk5 about transfering custody away

is the bridge part of any other infra?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I think we need to find a person to transfer control, ASAP. Then we can discuss the structure/incentives of the custodian. Which to me is a detail (an important one), but secondary to transferring control

"he will cede control of the socials/infra" <-- this is the only issue that is relevant to this channel as those are community assets. you can decide who is holding what MK in the MK channel once access is restored.

<plowsof:matrix.org> freethebridge

but it would be good to know who he would theoretically be ceding access to prior to voting on Saturday

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: Well, hypothetically if the community rallies behind his (somewhat vague) position, then there's no reason to suspect he ever will restore access.

which position?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: so i think that question needs to be 2fold. vote 1: should ajs retain custody of the socials. 2. regardless of 1: can orangefren host mk7 3. requires 2: can orangefren use the socials for mk7

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> geonic: did you read binaryfates comment?

I don't see a single person defending his actions here so low chance of anyone rallying

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: At a minimum, our position is that he must transfer access to a community selected custodian, of: all social media, domains, servers, and infrastructure related to MoneroKon.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> any ideas for whom should take custody in the interim?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I think that's our best question to explore right now

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I like ComradeBlin for this position, personally. But there are others.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: ☝️

<orangefren:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You :)

<orangefren:matrix.org> I'd be fine with @ct:xmr.mx too for instance

orangefren: you don't get a vote (:

<orangefren:matrix.org> 🫪

and neither does ajs

<orangefren:matrix.org> fine, then the rationale why I would suggest ofrnxmr is because he's the strongest defender of "anyone can host an MK"

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: I'm happy to take care of that. (though not the management of the website, host holding the things).

<comradeblin:matrix.org> If the community is fine enough with it too— of course.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> I'm definitely one person that has enough to lose if I'd go rouge in the community :D (eg: My job at Trocador, and the hosting company I'm just about to launch)

we can't select only 1 person because people have disappeared before

<comradeblin:matrix.org> nioc: right

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Perhaps tux as a second guy?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Well respected member of the community, and similar situation to mine.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Yes, we need at least one backup > <@comradeblin:matrix.org> I'm happy to take care of that. (though not the management of the website, host holding the things).

+1 tux

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> im not talking about permanant

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Would you like to be a name in the hat for custodian of MoneroKon resources?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:tux.pizza:

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> tux aint gonna answer here, i dont think

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: Him as well!

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> hes not active

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> doesnt even respond in cake room

why not? when would a permanent custodian be selected?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> some monerokon meeting

lol no

we need someone with their finger on the pulse of the community

<pw:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i think he's discord

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> we need someone to receive the assets from ajs if its voted that he should remove himself

it's been escalated. you don't get to decide among yourselves

<comradeblin:matrix.org> pinged tux on another platform.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: I feel like Saturday is the day

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> We'll have the most eyes and motivation at that time. It's the most "fair" that I think we can manage

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> I have been summoned

bawdy: agreed. just vote for a new custodian on Saturday

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ok, but you need to decide on rules for how to remove the new custodians as well

<comradeblin:matrix.org> . > <@bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Would you like to be a name in the hat for custodian of MoneroKon resources?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> well god damn, tux actually appeared

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I pinged him on signal lol

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> oh ahaha

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> comrade the magician

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: We discussed an incentive structure. Ultimately, regardless of rules, corporations, monetary incentives, etc; it all hinges on the custodian showing good faith.

they're in cahoots

<user2570:unredacted.org> How would the "backup custodian" work?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @user2570:unredacted.org: imo, two custodians, but only one is active. the other is only there in canse the first falls off a cliff

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @user2570:unredacted.org: it's not a mitigation of going rogue, but rather going AWOL.

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> sure if I could have some context on what that involves > <@bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Would you like to be a name in the hat for custodian of MoneroKon resources?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> youd have to grant and remove access for oraganizers anc community members for various monerokons

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> based on community sentiment

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> The idea is that, the socials/infra for MoneroKon should be separate from the organizers.

<321bob321> I just noticed I don't need to host linkstack anymore for monerokon ?

<321bob321> Looks like they have been added to site directly

<321bob321> Good communication

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> This keeps "reasonably fair" decisionmaking over who gets access to the officially-unofficial website/socials; and keeps community control over those resources, regardless of who is organizing MK any given year

regardless of who is organizing the next MK* :)

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ok that’s fine then

(I'd love to see ajs organize his monerokon in addition to orangefren)

<321bob321> Hardfork

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> yeah that’s cause my main matrix homeserver blew up and I haven’t fixed it I have to go back through and re-add myself to a bunch of channels > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> doesnt even respond in cake room

tuxsudo: you have to promise not to organize your own MoneroKon tho

<321bob321> Maybe cake can run kon too

<comradeblin:matrix.org> geonic: I don't think he has the time for that rofl

(:

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> geonic: aw man!!! Well I guess I wasn’t planning to do that anyways 🙃

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> what if cake runs one tho

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> TUX IS A CORPORATE RAIDER

tru

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> mole from cake

I think his first allegiance is to monero

(no offense Vik)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> /s

<siren:kernal.eu> I'm a corporate raider I'm all for profit profit profit

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> imagine the shock on ajs face when we give the socials to cake

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Can we raid the raiders?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @siren:kernal.eu: I'm for ALL the profit. /s (just some of it)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> new custodia = cakes top guy :D hahahaha, ajs gonna crash out

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> if conflict of interest has to be considered than yes keep in mind I work at cake wallet but at the same time that might make me more trustworthy

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nono

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: Nah I argued the same. It would actually help, not be a conflict.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the issue is that they didnt want orangefren to have custody

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Both of us have things (like our jobs) to lose.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> because " he rund a swap service" and is "for profit"

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> corporate raider, was the term used

monerobull is unemployed so he has that going for him

(I kid)

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> I fully support Orange fren running the next MK per the vote

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but really, not much difference between orangefren and cake. both are swap aggregators, but cake runs more services

<user2570:unredacted.org> Why not comrade + ceetee?

the difference is cake isn't a party to this nonsense

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> cake is party

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they sponsor every kon

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> every single one

good point. I hope we have more good candidates prior to the vote on Saturday!

ceetee should be asked

@hbs: would you be open to having your name added to the list of choices?

<ct:xmr.mx> custodians are not supposed to use the access they have, only make it accessible to whoever organizes Mk

<ct:xmr.mx> You ideally want to pick people who benifit if the ecosystem thrives as a whole

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> The crazy part is that, ajs didn't mention that at all. He framed it in a completely false manner, and we actually brought this up, not him. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the issue is that they didnt want orangefren to have custody

<ct:xmr.mx> Having people involved in other parts of the community reduces the fist of sudden disappearance, and they have a lot of reputation to loose

<ct:xmr.mx> For those reasons I think comrade + tux would work

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: based on bFs comment, i think ajs must have spread that message

(if someone on matrix can tag hbs I'd appreciate it)

ty ct

<tuxsudo:nitro.chat> @hbs:matrix.org

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thats an assumption based on my lack of sleep today

<321bob321> @siren:kernal.eu: Hostile takeover ?

ok, so people will vote for 2 candidates on Saturday and the top choice will be the main custodian while the second will be the backup?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so far, it seems like the vote about whether ajs should step away as custodian is going to be an easy one (unless were raided by boys)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> bots*

<comradeblin:matrix.org> geonic: I don't think it really matters. whoever is available to do shit does shit

<comradeblin:matrix.org> But essentially, yes.

someone mentioned weighted voting, no idea how that would work in practice

<ct:xmr.mx> I do stand behind hbs as well, was been very reliable over the years.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nioc: i'll only count the votes of people who vote for me

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if you vote against me, i'll have plowsof remove you

I would prefer if the backup remain dormant and only step up if necessary so that we know who is doing what

<ct:xmr.mx> I'm honored that you guy suggest me to, I'd do the role if vote for

<comradeblin:matrix.org> geonic: fairz

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> comrade, ceetee, tux, is the current list of nominees

yep, looking good so far

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> oh, and ajs

who nominated him :p

<ct:xmr.mx> geonic: Just have to make sure the backup is still an active backup

ct: true

<321bob321> Why not split the management

@monerobull what say you?

<321bob321> So we don't go full circle again

<321bob321> Domain

<321bob321> Email

<321bob321> Yt

<321bob321> Got

<321bob321> Vps

<321bob321> Got*

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i think the votiing should have to be ranked. like 4 3 2 1, and the person with the highest cumulative points wins?

and the second highest is backup

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah

some suggested splitting things before in the MK room

which might get interesting depending on the outcome of the vote

<321bob321> I forgot chair security

then the risk of disappearance appears again

truw

true

we should decide if we are voting for co-maintainers or for a main + backup. pros and cons to both

<321bob321> Nioc how come there is no drama in monero

I am waiting on a delivery of popcorn which is running late :(

<321bob321> Drama plz hold

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Sorry, one last drama:

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> x.com/BawdyAnarchist_/status/2074945213081280522

can people stop writing rouge. it's rogue :p

<comradeblin:matrix.org> geonic: The cringes of the english language. I know it's spelled rogue, but damn it's irritating that it actually would make more sense as rouge.

I only know how to spell because it's my second language

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Just sayin that Twitter spell check was fine with it

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> colour >> color

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> honour >> honor

well it is a word

I think it means red?

yes, in French

yes

<jeffro256> N. 1) "A red or pink cosmetic for coloring the cheeks or lips" 2) "A reddish powder, chiefly ferric oxide, use to polish metals or glass"...

<comradeblin:matrix.org> RED COCAINE

beef also comes from french

<jpk68:matrix.org> Baton Rouge is also a city

<jpk68:matrix.org> nioc: That's like half the English language :P

the other half being German?

<jeffro256> @jpk68:matrix.org: boo tigers

Baton Rouge is from an area that had French influence

<jpk68:matrix.org> nioc: Lain, Germanic, Greek...

<jpk68:matrix.org> s/Lain/Latin/

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> "rouge"

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FfMRcDtCYXyZgqOOeCjVkvVF.webp (Ninja_Run_f14.webp)

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> anyways, this chat so dumb

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> just dropping by to say that

The door is there, use it.

_Leave room_. Click.

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> who gives a shit about monerokon, yall inviting scammer anyways, caught on a podcast thing, apparently even justin 'tron' sun been out here having a shill for his scam at monerokon, wtf even if this lol

Cool story. Have you left yet?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> popcorn, anyone?

<jeffro256> 4/10 ragebait

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its kitty, give her a 6

At least that was better than "he is holding our services hostage"!

<jpk68:matrix.org> Thanks for the Ninja_Run_f14.webp (??)

Since we didn't vote for the "boss". For hours.

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: like i said, fuck off and die, yall out here being corporate slop wannabes, that's just cringe af

But I didn't create any ruckus!

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> im going you outlive you by 100 years

Clowns are the mosquitoes and don't even realize it.

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @jpk68:matrix.org: game am making, which apparently making a game thing (diablo 1 costed millions of dollar apparently) but for monero, yall entitled to that shit for free

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> to* outlive

<jeffro256> oh no a company set up 1 table at my conference about digital money

drooling-retard "this chat so dumb" if it is so "dumb", why are you still here?

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @jeffro256: who gives a shit about conferences tho, this is literal corporate slop wannabes out here being like circle jerking like irl linkedin, cringiest shit ever

ok ofrn.

anything else to add?

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Welcome then. Apparently you feel the need to participate.

<jeffro256> @drooling-retard:matrix.org: People who enjoy connecting with other people about shared topics

<pw:xmr.mx> well stop rejoining and taking part you drooling retard

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: having fun drawing funny lines on graph on a shit podcast? great participation from you out there lol

💤

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @jeffro256: cringe

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @drooling-retard:matrix.org: thank you for your valued input sar

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: am not sarang

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> fucking dumbass lol

<jpk68:matrix.org> lmfao

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Well ofc you would have to deny it

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> It's okay, I still respec you. Such respec.

New binaries v0.18.5.1 are now available at www.getmonero.org

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> binaryFate: they not there yet? github.com/monero-project/monero/releases

<pw:xmr.mx> he's just told you where they are

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> fuck getmonero tho, that shit needs to die, it has the ccs model with all yall scammers, it's a shit model made by a literal scammer (rehrar), then that dumbass tryna make the new design of getmonero to have his bullshit mascot (isabella) to be the face of monero, that's cringe af, monerochan been the face of monero, his shit mascot never been adopted by anyone in the community, fuck getmonero

💤

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> i dont wanna link to it that linking to a microslop bullshit website (github) is still better than linking to getmonero at this point, just sayin

..."don't feed the troll"...

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: can we get rid of this ragebaiter?

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: shut the fuck up snitch

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> glowie piece of shit

i was about to shill the torrent im creating but yes

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> snitches dont get no bitches

<comradeblin:matrix.org> :c

drooling-retard: they are on github now

<pw:xmr.mx> one of her idle alt accounts will see this BF

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: not really. she's always here

<plowsof:matrix.org> thanks binaryFate

<pw:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: mustn't be getting enough 🍆

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i would respond to that, but she never gave me her rates

<pw:xmr.mx> idk crack prices

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pgRfFEqAYfLRaMjNAZwEBbVD.png (image.png)

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=109761684

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> on the wayback machine by the way

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> videogamers MADE bitcoin for FREE

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> yall out here scamming

<pw:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: you dont belong in this space

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> @pw:xmr.mx: you neither you snitch piece of shit

<pw:xmr.mx> just CBA with women on their periods

<pw:xmr.mx> you used to be cool kitty. what went wrong

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> @pw:xmr.mx: working for free and being denied 10 xmr for a whole year of work by scammers that got paid 2000 xmr on bullshit work that the space dont even need, making a whole videogame as well, was saying that one the thread that was deleted by the way... the blueprints for everything

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> currently did like 3 of the milestones of my ccs

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> but doing it for free

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> that was just 3k salary being requested for a whole year of work

<pw:xmr.mx> how long a go was this

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> still doing it, alongside building a whole videogame from scratch...

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> idk, was 2025 the ccs, did 3 ladders so far

torrents are up now github.com/plowsof/monero-torrent/releases 🧲

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> super popcorn

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> hey geonic, you still there?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> since the irc bridge is dead in kon room, im assuming you cant see whats going on

<321bob321> plowsof: I can use with limewire?

<321bob321> And does it come with virus

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> For the record, ajs showed up again in the MK room, and said he's transferring control of the MK infra to core, but refused to say what actual person he's coordinating with, that will not control those resources.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> my decentralized is giving the socials etc to another centralized entity

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> now we need to figure out who owns the socials, and get it from them

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> obviously if its core, its bf

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> luigi doesnt have time for this shit

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and its DEFINITELY not artic

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> It's funny, maybe all of this is irrelevant. More of the active devs showed up to Monerotopia than Kon anyways.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> because they are based in north america

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monerokon started in north america, then went to europe becasue thats where the organizers want to organize

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: It's hard in the US at this moment. When I went to visit Alaskanon the second time, I got questioned like for 15-20 minutes at immigration, even though I already have record with the US.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Yeah, US policy has gotten way worse in this regard

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> alaska isnt on earth

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Except that I did immigration in Seattle

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> immigration?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> border control

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> since when do you need to immigrate to be a visitor?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> whatever you call it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> oh okok

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> TSA

<comradeblin:matrix.org> No

<comradeblin:matrix.org> TSA and immigration officers are 2 different things

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Both however, are under the administration of Homeland Security

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> hm. i dont fly, but ive crossed border like 5 times a day before

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> anyway, my point is just that the reaosn more devs go to topia than kon, is because its not a 20 hour flight away

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they went to kon more when their flights were paid for

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: travel expenses are still being reimbursed (I think up to 500$)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the flight from us is like 3k

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> probably

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Doing it wrong then.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> European VPN and you can get a flight for 400-600 from the east coast.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> 800-1k from west

<comradeblin:matrix.org> round flight*

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> maybe not

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> im seeing 900

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> just looked on google

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: From the east coast?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> anyway, that makes it pretty funny that people were getting rebursed like 2k for flights

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> in the pre-TE ajs days

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> where everything was trustmebro invoicing, super cypherpunk style

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> from the new york, im seeing 700

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> from cali, 680 (west coast)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> still a 14hr flight

<comradeblin:matrix.org> sounds about right depending on the day of the week.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For sure.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> which is why id like to see a kon in north america

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yea, it would be nice indeed. What State/city are you thinking?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> depends when in the year

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monerotopia can happen in the winter, because its in the south

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but in the summer, i wouldnt want it in the south

<jeffro256> it would kill our european friends

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> in the winter, wouldnt want it in the north

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> haha

I’m here <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> hey geonic, you still there?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @jeffro256: I was in San Diego in September, I beg to differ.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> september isnt the summer

<comradeblin:matrix.org> faiir

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yeah, geonic, just wanted to say that ajs is transferring the stuff to monero core team

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> not going to wait for the meeting

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so this discussion was a waste of time, now we need to try to pry it out of cores hands

<jpk68:matrix.org> The US is very difficult to get into for the majority of countries

bob limewire is fine and yes the trojan comes with cli/gui binaries

<jeffro256> September is technically summer, but definitely after the worst has passed

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Would be cool to have some farm/ranch vibe to it imo. So if not South/Texas, Montana perhaps? > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but in the summer, i wouldnt want it in the south

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: texas can be cheap

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: And also hot, which you just said you wouldn't want it in the south.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> I wouldn't mind it though. Would be nice to see Texas

<jeffro256> @jpk68:matrix.org: Yeah the USA treats USA citizens horribly at the border, I can't imagine what it's like for non-citizens

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: in the summer, i woudlnt. in the winter, it can still be pretty nice weather

yeah I read that. I think tptb have been reading our chat so it was not a waste of time

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @jeffro256: This.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For sure

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @jeffro256: you must be on a list

“<ajs_>BawdyAnarchist: i am in the process of transferring all accounts to Monero Project”

<joel:kernal.eu> @jeffro256: I heard they can check your phone contents and ask for your passwords/keys

<jeffro256> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: lowkenuinely I think I am

<comradeblin:matrix.org> I wouldn't put it in Montana in the winter 💀. That's when the European friends would be messed up lol

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i am too, but after crossing border like 20 times in a couple days, and being searched thoroughly like 15 of those times, i think they just think im a troll

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @joel:kernal.eu: Not 100% true, but kinda.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> For Citizens, they can ask you to unlock your phone and they can demand you open it with your biometrics. You don't have to open it with your password though. Best to put it into BFU mode before clearing immigration.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> For non-citizens, you either do it if you get asked to, or you don't enter. Those are your choices.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @joel:kernal.eu: all of your electronic devices

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> geonic: That's vague

<jeffro256> I also get secondary security screening (they sniff every piece of clothing) and extra questions about my personal life when I travel in and out of the US border by myself

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> We're asking who he's coordinating with. Because "the Monero Project" doesnt have the control and login credentials. A person does

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: if you dont comply, they can just seize your shit

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: For citizens? Sure, but you still get to enter xd

<joel:kernal.eu> the land of the free

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: its obv binary

<jpk68:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: They do, and there are record numbers of device searches

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> We can only speculate. A good faith responsible party would state it outright.

yep, sounds like bF. as good a choice as any. he’ll confirm at some point

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> nah, its binary :D

<jpk68:matrix.org> Why not have it somewhere relatively expat-friendly (like Panamá)?

<jpk68:matrix.org> Preferably not in the summer, of course :D

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> or mexico

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thats prob why topia is in mexico

<jpk68:matrix.org> I was thinking that as well, but it might be too close (as in, similar) to MT

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they let anybody in

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @jpk68:matrix.org: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/jgwLNhPozxAmRmGRmSZarnLI.png (image.png)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> The US is similar. 670$ from JFK

<jpk68:matrix.org> Better than like half the people not from the US being barred from attending

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Offshore has benefits and contras. Flight prices in specific are the latter :D

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Let's do middle grounds. Go Greenland

<comradeblin:matrix.org> :p

<jpk68:matrix.org> That will also the the US soon /s

<comradeblin:matrix.org> PENGUINS

<comradeblin:matrix.org> /s

<jeffro256> Yeah the USA treats USA citizens horribly at the border, I can't imagine what it's like for non-citizens <<>> I never have an issue and I often get border control to laugh

<comradeblin:matrix.org> You probably always had agents who had a great day before you.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> It really sucks that just because an immigration agent has a bad day, it could very much fuck up your own.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> FYI people. Money on hardware wallets in the US is considered cash, and needs to be declared above 10k

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @comradeblin:matrix.org: You sure? I thought that wasn't the case.

what about poetry ?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: I did too. Until the immigration agent told me.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> Oh they lie

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> You cant trust them

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> immigration telling you whever they want

<jpk68:matrix.org> In any case, you have to consent to getting molested by TSA. Is it really worth it?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if i have money in my bank acct, i dont have to declare it

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: I can, because I didn't have one with me, I just asked. But let me find the law that says so. Sec.

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> I know it sucks, but the practical reality of dealing with the US and immigration there, makes the US difficult to host a conf there.

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> meanwhile ccs scammers & gatekeepers could fuck up your whole year, not just your day > <@comradeblin:matrix.org> It really sucks that just because an immigration agent has a bad day, it could very much fuck up your own.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> haha

<not-satoshi:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/AwkSQxLIbANnpgwdQaIMREWg.jpeg (glT5aEG.jpeg)

<jeffro256> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: All the time, in my experience. And they give you a hard time when you lawfully refuse to give up information they ask for

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: not really if the target audience is north americans

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> there are 500million ppl in north america, and like 500m in europe. dont quote me

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Feels like the target audience is XMR enthusiasts.

murica doesn't like north americans

even canadians are evil now lol

<jpk68:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: You think other countries in NA don't have a hard time getting into the US? That's kind of a joke

<stnby:kernal.eu> All of the audience talking about MoneroKon at this hour at this room should be banned from voting.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> im not saying there should only be one kon and it should be in NA, im saying that many people from NA dont go to european kons, even if for different reasons

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @jpk68:matrix.org: i dont.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i know many people from canada that come to usa on vacation EVERY year

me too

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and i know many illegal mexicans who came and never left :D lol

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> AmeriKon

they are always nervious

<jpk68:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: The average boomer snowbird probably doesn't care about TSA looking through their Hotmail account

they take things off their phones b4 crossing over

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> because social media told them that vance memes will get them sent back

also don't use webchat

that will set specific fields that ensure that will show up

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but i usually just fill my phone with nudes of myself in the mirror

wrong room

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and they give my phoneback real quick

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> The entire travesty that the US can (and does) deny entry if you refuse to unlock your phone ... Nothing could be more antithetical to the privacy culture of Monero. Asking people to wipe their phones just to attend MK? It just seems like a non-started

my phone is filled with pics of cats

<jpk68:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Don't think I fall for that BS, lmao

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> nioc: .cats

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @bawdyanarchist:matrix.org: americans can be told to unlock too

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> so why would they fly to europe?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> only to be hung upside down on the trip back

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yes. They can seize your phone, if you refuse, they can detain you. But they cant deny you entry. At least that's been the practice as of late, supposedly

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> in other words, monerokon EU and monerokon USA will always have a divide

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and i dont see it as being a nonstarter

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> for the reason that the same restrictions apply to anyone traveling from the us, and thos travelling to it

I have never had an issue flying into any country

remember that CBP can do seizures certain miles away from a port of entry and almost the entire US is within those areas :) > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> americans can be told to unlock too

<bawdyanarchist:matrix.org> But you're right, it's still a problem, regardless

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the US market is therefore shut off, and having a conference here just gives americans an opportunty to attend

<jeffro256> DataHoarder[m]: 100 miles, recently upheld by the Supreme Court IIRC

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Not every EU or European person has access to an american ESTA though.

well I can't leave my home for more than a couple of days so maybe I need to organize a MK here

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Visas take a fair amount of time, and might be denied even then

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> and usa is like, thousands of miles across

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: dont need one

@jeffro256: yeah, and you don't even need to have gone through a port of entry for this, so anyone is target for phone scan

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> you just need a passport

2/3rds of the U.S. population live within 100 miles of a border (the ocean counts too)

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I'm talking about europeans

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> DataHoarder[m]: i dont think americans have to do this cc jeffro

<comradeblin:matrix.org> For example Romanians need a visa for the US, they don't have ESTA.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thats unlawful search and seizure

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> which only protects americans, of course

<anhdres:matrix.org> don't forget many countries have to pay a pricey visa to get into the us

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Even an ESTA is 40$

<comradeblin:matrix.org> 20$ for some

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @anhdres:matrix.org: dont you just need a passport?

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: No.

<anhdres:matrix.org> nop

@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: they can still do lawful seizure btw

<stnby:kernal.eu> No MoneroKon in BurgerLand. I would rather have it in Belarus

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> only need a visa if you plan to stay for any amount of time, no?

<anhdres:matrix.org> and it's not a given you'll be awarded one

<anhdres:matrix.org> no, just to enter

<anhdres:matrix.org> I needed visa just to stopover in the us on my way to Mexico

<comradeblin:matrix.org> Hungary has the best/one of the best visa agreement with the US from the EU rn I think, and even we need to pay 40$ and fill out a fricking long ESTA (Visa Waiver) application form. And pray that it gets accepted.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @stnby:kernal.eu: fake news. the mcdonalds sucks now

<stnby:kernal.eu> 🇧🇾🫶MK

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: No. you need it to enter.

<comradeblin:matrix.org> There is a visa waiver program, but it's just an easier VISA. You still need to apply and can be accepted or denied. it also costs 20-40$. And not many countries have it.

<enigmatik:unredacted.org> DataHoarder[m]: I suggest anyone curious research civil asset forfeiture

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> thats kinda retarded

<stnby:kernal.eu> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: mcdonalds suck or muricans suck on mcdonalds

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> mcdonalds sucks

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: What the funny thing is, under the visa waiver program, you're not considered a nonresident alien, so you can legally carry a firearm in the states that allow it.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its not cheap anymore, and quality is trash

<comradeblin:matrix.org> :D

<anhdres:matrix.org> the current visa for argentineans is 185 usd, even for tourists

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: i dont think thats accurate in most states

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the constitutuon only protects citizens

anhdres 0_o

<anhdres:matrix.org> yep

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> constitutional carry doesnt apply to non citizens

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @anhdres:matrix.org: identify as a canadian

<anhdres:matrix.org> and you have to pay even if it's just renovating a previous approved visa

all the hate is making me want to organize a monerokon in LA hmmm

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> geonic, do it

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: feel free to search it up. I was surprised when I learnt this.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> we can have our boxing/mma match :D lolol

<jeffro256> geonic: Louisiana you mean?

Los Angeles

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @comradeblin:matrix.org: im in one of the most free states, and only citizens an carry

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> unlicensed

<jeffro256> Damn my least favorite US city

<comradeblin:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: dmd

<jeffro256> ;)

you have to know it to love it. takes 5 years or so

<joel:kernal.eu> in AmeriKon we need a revolver duel between a bitcoiner and monero

the monerokon in Denver was pretty good ngl

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> jeffro, would you attend a monerkon in usa

<jeffro256> Absolutely

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> im asking because the fbi wants to know where to find you

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> some questions we'd like to ask

<jeffro256> Had some "undercover" (they were terrible at being undercover) cops/feds try to weasle info out of me in a conference in Dallas

anhdres btw how are you here after yesterday's heart attack

<anhdres:matrix.org> geonic: my voice is back to normal now

ha

that game was insane

<anhdres:matrix.org> for the record previous world cups when we got kicked out were passing through my head and i kept pushing the images away and repeated "wait..." once and again to my son

<anhdres:matrix.org> like a mantra haha

you and 40 million others lol

didn't help the Brazilians and I'm sure they prayed as well!

<anhdres:matrix.org> i have to admit we're not playing pretty as we used to but i would be lying if i told you it's not fun to read so many people online butthurt when we win

<anhdres:matrix.org> geonic: brazil has been awful for years now. let's hope they remain so at least until we have 5 stars ourselves. then they can pick up winning again

messi is getting long in the tooth but he still has the football gods on speed dial it seems. it's crazy he could remain calm and perform under all that pressure

<anhdres:matrix.org> it is. we all know it won't last forever but that only adds to the drama of every time he manages to survive just another match

<midipoet:matrix.org> The Argentinian football team is more addicted to drama than the Monero community, sure. What did you expect! > <@anhdres:matrix.org> for the record previous world cups when we got kicked out were passing through my head and i kept pushing the images away and repeated "wait..." once and again to my son

<anhdres:matrix.org> @midipoet:matrix.org: today I'd say it's pretty 50/50

<321bob321> Eygpt should of won

<321bob321> Var crap

<jpk68:matrix.org> Elaborate? :)) > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> we can have our boxing/mma match :D lolol

<jpk68:matrix.org> Anywhere in the EU would also be a huge pain considering the way things are going right now

if Egypt had lost after leading 3-0 it would've been even more embarrassing for them

<jpk68:matrix.org> *might be in the future

<anhdres:matrix.org> for what's worth i think egypt played an almost perfect match. football is not fair. sometimes you're lucky and sometimes you aren't

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @jpk68:matrix.org: someone wanted to set up a boxing match between us years ago

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> but now we have polymarket

<jpk68:matrix.org> That would be really fun

sometimes Trump puts in a call for you and you get what you want

<anhdres:matrix.org> i hope infantino, trump, and the gods both old and new step up because we'll need them.

<321bob321> A south american team will be in the final

<321bob321> Cant hold the cup there and not have one in the final

it's being held in north america tho? and all the hosts are out now

<anhdres:matrix.org> yep.

I think argentina will make it to the semi-finals and lose. that's my prediction (sorry)

<anhdres:matrix.org> geonic: heard an english commentator today explaining viewers that there was a biggest distance between mexico and buenos aires than from london to mumbai, lol. it seems many people think latin america is all just the same place

<anhdres:matrix.org> geonic: it's the most likely scenario. BUUUUUTT......

<anhdres:matrix.org> I WANT TO BELIEVE

I think Argentina plays Norway in the semifinals and loses... 2:1

<pw:xmr.mx> geonic: no

<anhdres:matrix.org> i think norway is the team that i playing the best in this cup tbh

<anhdres:matrix.org> and the one that would bother me the least if they win (if it's not us)

that striker would've been scalping people 1000 years ago i swear

<anhdres:matrix.org> but it's fine if you want to root for us. we have a saying "argentines can be born anywhere"

I'll def be rooting for argentina and will be sad if my prediction comes true

<anhdres:matrix.org> it's even at the beginning of our constitution:

<anhdres:matrix.org> > "to form a national union, guarantee justice, secure domestic peace, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves, to our posterity, and to all men of the world who wish to dwell on argentine soil"

<anhdres:matrix.org> geonic: i'd be rooting for bulgaria haha

wait until we qualify for the world cup again in ... 2070 :)

<anhdres:matrix.org> geonic: maybe next one would be 180 countries, we never know

<321bob321> Argentina is in > <geonic> it's being held in north america tho? and all the hosts are out now

lol yes at this rate! our humiliation will be complete

<321bob321> I reckon argentina will win cause i dont think messi will play again

<321bob321> Fairytale ending

<321bob321> Golden boot, world cup winner, best player in match

<anhdres:matrix.org> it would be awesome

<anhdres:matrix.org> messi is like harry potter

<321bob321> Made me laugh when everyone said how could fifa reverse a red card, polotical interence blah blah

<anhdres:matrix.org> griffindor always wins

<321bob321> Fifa is corrupt .. full stop

<anhdres:matrix.org> no shit

<anhdres:matrix.org> it's 100% currupt

<anhdres:matrix.org> always has been

<321bob321> When you have voting from poor countries on choosing the location of the world cup

<321bob321> People only cared cause trumpy was involved

<321bob321> Ima send the fifth fleet if you dont reverse the decision

<321bob321> Only place we can get to accept xmr

<321bob321> Bribe offical in fifa

<anhdres:matrix.org> they probably just use HSBC for that

<jpk68:matrix.org> > dark.vegas

<jpk68:matrix.org> > dark.macau

<jpk68:matrix.org> > Someone likes casinos, lol

<hbs:matrix.org> @tuxsudo:nitro.chat: ? Sorry I am on the move this week and have not had time to catch up all the messages, what is the question?