you can now click on all blocks (except red selfish ones) in blocks.p2pool.observer and get to a page with more details, including orphan ones. example blocks.p2pool.observer/block/23e402…5cfee9df42f0459d906da92403a5661246f

Also lists withheld transactions that have been detected blocks.p2pool.observer/block/7d8915…d556a03b9e3708eec33d5e3043a0676b88d

example orphaned block blocks.p2pool.observer/block/b328e2…be0e4575e0c6aa8d9392c48beda6ed01260

totally forgot about it. you can also download the block template hex directly or the curl command to import directly to local monero via RPC. This is kept on a database so the alt blocks should exist. Alt blocks are found by randomly sampling open monero nodes with RPC in the network.

These are stored in database for safekeeping

You should be able to access any alt block via its block id, coinbase id or merkle root hash in merge mining extra tag

add /hex or /curl to the endpoint

(or press the button)

<barthman132:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/jITEKEUMxGTTFzTiYOFAFyDL (To all the people who still think the current pow is secure)

<syntheticbird> go back to sleep

<rbrunner7> Look, Element tells me that this room has 454 participants. Maybe again that much might be watch from the IRC side. That's almost 1000 people. If we all think PoW is not secure, and if we all together worry as hard as we can, that will help.

<barthman132:matrix.org> Look man I buy hashrate during their marathons, but there’s only so much I can do. We don’t know if they did a double spend or not. Anybody who thought that qubic couldn’t get an extra 1 gh/s to pull off an 51% is just wrong. having cheap hashrate that anyone can buy. Is basically a worse version of pos that the POW people complain about.

<syntheticbird> @barthman132:matrix.org: > This user glows in the dark

<rbrunner7> Well, I don't think renting 1 GH/s is cheap, at least if you do it longer than the 1 hour or so you need to show off with such a large reorg as a PR stunt.

<barthman132:matrix.org> It’s not, but compared to how much money these guys have. It might as well be a Burger King sandwich. The electricity needed to pull off a 51% attack on Bitcoin per day is around 25 million. For monero it’s probably like 100k to rent it for a day to get 51% of the network.

<syntheticbird> >It’s not, but compared to how much money these guys have.

<syntheticbird> You actually do not have this information

<syntheticbird> >For monero it’s probably like 100k to rent it for a day to get 51% of the network.

<syntheticbird> show calculation otherwise bullshit

<rbrunner7> I sense some pro-PoS arguments incoming ... or the pro tip to switch from Monero to Bitcoin :)

<rbrunner7> Maybe we should just implement a PoS Monero variant, make a hardfork and then let people freely decide on which chain they want to stay ...

<rbrunner7> I think it should not be too hard to copy over Zano's PoS code

<barthman132:matrix.org> crypto51.app. Here’s all the cryptocurrency 51% for the electricity costs. So to rent the hashrate needed to attack monero. It would take around 100k to 200k

<rbrunner7> Do note the "theoretical cost" in there ...

<syntheticbird> @barthman132:matrix.org: That's funny you say that because this site do not list Monero

<rbrunner7> In theory I can mine RandomX with paper and pencil and help to push up the hashrate, LMAO

<barthman132:matrix.org> Yes but 100k to 200k at most is around the range for monero. Also keep in mind that people mine qubic freely and it’s easier for them to do an attack, because thousands of people mine for qubic

<syntheticbird> @barthman132:matrix.org: Repeating won't help you. Show calculation otherwise your argument is worthless

Okay, go to AWS/Azure/Google cloud and ask them if you can rent 4 GH/s worth of EPYC CPUs for 100k :D

They'll send you faaaar and very quickly :D

And it's the only places where you can realistically find that much hashrate

MRR doesn't have enough, but even there the hashrate is like 3x more expensive than you wrote

<barthman132:matrix.org> They don’t need to straight up rent that much hashrate, because most of their hashrate is straight up mined by their people. > <sech1> Okay, go to AWS/Azure/Google cloud and ask them if you can rent 4 GH/s worth of EPYC CPUs for 100k :D

<syntheticbird> red herring

<syntheticbird> as usual

<syntheticbird> change tactic @barthman132:matrix.org you're boring

Most of their hashrate is a few Chinese datacenters

and it's paid for by their coin's emission

"their people" don't contribute much

I wonder what the PoS apologists will say when PoS is implemented and we become big exchanges'/govenment bitches :D Because guess who has most XMR in one wallet - exchanges and governments who confiscated XMR before

and exchanges have to answer to governments, so in the end it's just one entity

<syntheticbird> sech1: Some people here are truly playing naive thinking the great market rules applies to everyone equally

<barthman132:matrix.org> Even if this is true. Doesn’t that just mean that anybody wealthy enough can just rent those data centers. Second of all if the US government wants to it can shut down monero tomorrow. Also most exchanges ban monero anyway, so it’s extremely unlikely that they actually hold that much tbw. > <sech1> Most of their hashrate is a few Chinese datacenters

<syntheticbird> @barthman132:matrix.org: a lot of unjustified premises i see

<barthman132:matrix.org> Name them

<syntheticbird> >Second of all if the US government wants to it can shut down monero tomorrow. <- Unjustified and unrelated to the dilemma at hand

<syntheticbird> >Also most exchanges ban monero anyway, so it’s extremely unlikely that they actually hold that much tbw. <- retarded

<syntheticbird> So if my grampa keeps 20% of the world gold supply in his garage but don't sell it to anyone that means he virtually don't have this gold

<syntheticbird> epic

<syntheticbird> Seized supply is not in the hand of exchanges

<syntheticbird> so unrelated

<syntheticbird> type faster

<hbs:matrix.org> sech1: Most proPoSnents seems to be comfortable with leaving the ethos of Monero behind, sacrifying the egalitarian, permissionless and resilient nature of the coin we all love so much. Decentralization, and yes I know a few pools seem to bring centralization to the lot, or at least design so decentralization is possible is a [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/o8yZh7UKVVJob2dC ]

<barthman132:matrix.org> both points are true. I’m saying for the exchange point that most exchanges have banned monero and it’s unlikely that it’s a significant investment for them. Even for coins like bitcoin and ethereum total supply is around 10 to 20 percent is controlled by exchanges.

<syntheticbird> @syntheticbird: .

<syntheticbird> Seized supply is in direct access to the US government and can be used for any operations deemed legitimate

<syntheticbird> They have millions worth of XMR

<syntheticbird> There is no exchange compliance logistic needed to attack PoS

<syntheticbird> while for PoW, there is a direct logistic cost

<syntheticbird> So if we hypothetically decide to go over PoS, we open the door to easy, instantaneous take over by a known threat

<barthman132:matrix.org> I mean dude, if you think attacking the monero pow network right now would be that much of a challenge for the US. Then Idk what to tell you. Also can you provide a source for this information, because there is only 18 million monero in circulation right now. > <@syntheticbird> Seized supply is in direct access to the US government and can be used for any operations deemed legitimate

<syntheticbird> @barthman132:matrix.org: learn to read

<syntheticbird> >millions worth of XMR

<syntheticbird> =/= millions of XMR

<syntheticbird> >that much of a challenge for the US

<syntheticbird> you are twisting my word

<syntheticbird> I never said it was difficult for the US

<syntheticbird> just we passed from easy to trivial by migrating to PoS

what do exchanges banning monero have to do with PoW lol

<rbrunner7> "They have millions worth of XMR" Well, @syntheticbird:monero.social , now it's turn to ask you to substantiate that somehow? I don't remember large XMR sizing operations, but maybe my old brain is just lacking

i believe europol is the one seizing XMR for DNMs, but i could be wrong

<barthman132:matrix.org> helene: It doesn’t matter in terms of pow, but in terms of POS a argument I hear is that exchanges would just control the supply of monero and hold the most, but in terms of actual amount it’s around 10 to 15 percent. Also against the DNM point. The us government also seizes tons of bitcoin from illegal activity, but in t [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/w4rph7UKbkJQZlFH ]

i'm against PoS because it prevents basically about anyone from getting monero anonymously in exchange for electricity and CPU power, which is a crucial goal for monero

we can't know how much XMR exchanges and governments have, but it's not unreasonable to imagine if a switch to PoS was to happen, they would have strong incentives to stake to deanonymise transactions, and to force known-stakers to collaborate

<radanne:matrix.org> helene: We can know. The figures are public for good part. And the reminder can be derived from known amount of Bitcoin seizures.

<radanne:matrix.org> Grok, based on known figures of Bitcoin seized from Darknet Markets operations and other illicit trades alike, would you be able to estimate how much Monero has been seized? I don't need the fiat value, just the number of coins.

<radanne:matrix.org> Grok Expert:

<radanne:matrix.org> Approximately 2,100,000 Monero (XMR) have been seized by law enforcement from darknet markets and related illicit activities, based on known seizure figures for Bitcoin (roughly 300,000 BTC) and the proportion of darknet transactions involving Monero versus Bitcoin (around 70-80% based on market acceptance and volumes).

<radanne:matrix.org> [... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/0OT7h7UKZjFVTkV5 ]

for seized monero, it is public; for intelligence agencies acquiring monero, not so much :)

<radanne:matrix.org> true :)

<radanne:matrix.org> so could be even more than the estimate, and counting

<radanne:matrix.org> PoS is totally out of question just on those basis alone. We're not Zcash or Zano

<syntheticbird> I'll just keep with the directly seized XMR thanks you > <@radanne:matrix.org> Grok, based on known figures of Bitcoin seized from Darknet Markets operations and other illicit trades alike, would you be able to estimate how much Monero has been seized? I don't need the fiat value, just the number of coins.

<syntheticbird> Projecting BTC seized into XMR is non sense

there are many Monero-like projects offering PoS, Monero is allowed to be different :)

<syntheticbird> XMR have colossally less liquidity

<syntheticbird> and trying to actually exchange that much wouldn't be incognito

<radanne:matrix.org> It's not non-sense. The specific cases report are incomplete.

<radanne:matrix.org> You can make the effort and go find the rest, rather than "going by it"

<syntheticbird> @radanne:matrix.org: so you don't understand what I just said

<radanne:matrix.org> with the remainder extrapolated from broader privacy coin seizures reported in 2023-2025 ($92 million to $145 million annually, assuming 70-80% Monero).

<rbrunner7> 425,000 XMR slumbering in the wallets of some DNMs so that law enforcement can seize it just like that? That's around 100,000,000 USD. A bit sceptical why that would be

<radanne:matrix.org> The remainder is extrapolated from reported PRIVACY COIN seizures

<syntheticbird> @radanne:matrix.org: Most criminals don't hold their value in XMR

<syntheticbird> it's a known fact

<syntheticbird> BTC and ETH are used for storing value

<syntheticbird> and converted in XMR when needed

<radanne:matrix.org> Goverments do, they also constitute of "criminals" > <@syntheticbird> Most criminals don't hold their value in XMR

my thoughts would be more that some XMR might have been seized a while ago, while XMR was fairly low; but it is true that most might not hold in XMR

<radanne:matrix.org> They don't allow the coins back to market. Every monero seized remains in their custody

<syntheticbird> Thanks radanne, If you feel like you have something as worthless to write, try hard to make that feeling go way. If at any point you feel like you wanna leave please do so

<radanne:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/BhyBBdUeqPNtFvmgPgSMvavJ.png (image.png)

<radanne:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: Well I will take it as dumb opinion and ignore it. Since clearly you don't have any valid reasoning and feel like attacking me. Don't worry my skin is thick as it comes. Not winning an argument with me.

<hbs:matrix.org> @radanne:matrix.org: What is the source of this page?

<radanne:matrix.org> justice.gov/archives/ag/page/file/1326061/download

<barthman132:matrix.org> @radanne:matrix.org: Thanks for the information. Also it’s not really surprising that the US government just sits on the seized coins, but it’s nice to have confirmation.

well, it's a pinky promise that they are sitting on them; it can only be confirmed that they do so for public chains

<barthman132:matrix.org> helene: Who knows what the US is going to do. It terms of crypto holders, even the UAE likely have more bitcoin then the US government

<barthman132:matrix.org> ccn.com/news/crypto/bhutan-top-crypto-nations-full-list-of-countries

<basses:matrix.org> @barthman132:matrix.org: the article literally says otherwise

<barthman132:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: Oh oops I’m dumb it said previously rumored. But still 200,000 bitcoin isn’t that much tbh for a government

<chaser> grim trigger activated, I guess

<rbrunner7> I am a bit surprised they did, frankly. It may backfire so that in the end they acted against their own self interest. But I guess the pressure from the "peanut gallery" became too strong given the opportunity

<ofrnxmr> they likely did it because exchanges (kraken) raised mininum deposit confs

<venture> was there really a 18 block deep re-org? moneroconsensus shows that..

<ofrnxmr> But i still would hope exchanges like mexc delist qubic

<chaser> @rbrunner7:monero.social "I am a bit surprised...": their self-interest is social clout, maintaining drama and potentially to destabilize the social fabric of Monero. there was nothing happening for a while now, so they moved. momentum is important to them.

<barthman132:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/PIwVbSdgvjHSfYDwdTKUYIzP.png (IMG_0840.png)

<barthman132:matrix.org> @venture: Yes unfortunately

<barthman132:matrix.org> They must’ve turned their database miners off, because they’re getting 25 to 30 percent of the blocks now for about 2 hours

<ofrnxmr> 118 txs invalidated

<barthman132:matrix.org> 15% of our mining pool have been orphaned and the same number for theirs.

<venture> somebody has timing on when the first block rival was published by them? 18 blocks were probably not published all-at-once

<chaser> @chaser: they take whatever situation is given and run with it the best they can. I expect that once rolling DNS checkpoints are activated and followed by NOSH+ pools, they will launch a social bot campaign to spread "oH LoOk we made Monero go back to centralization". they need to farm the semblance of the upper hand because their token is down 40% from the August peak.

<venture> @barthman132:matrix.org: yeah, it might not be even "profitable" as in, they are not making more money than honest mining... we have quite good block propagation

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @chaser: Their campaign can such mah ballz

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And so can the idea of reorging 10+ blocks

<barthman132:matrix.org> @venture: That’s true! The amount of profit miners make from Qubic has gone down drastically, however it’s not having as much of an effect as I would have hoped

<barthman132:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/TdcvhMbKIGsRCRCKRlIJMjfY.png (IMG_0841.png)

<barthman132:matrix.org> TBF the margin mining qubic vs monero is much thinner than it used to be

<venture> @barthman132:matrix.org: that can't be translated directly to qubic's xmr gains. xmr profit exceeding hashrate share might be close to 0. CFB said on twitter miners are paid regardless of their block's been orphaned or not.

<barthman132:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/fVBeStGEcDVSUMLUfBJoFHJq. (The margins are still much better than they used to be. Sure qubic miners still make more, but what I’m saying is it’s just not as much as before.)

Anyone got an idea of where Qubic ranks in the world of DDOS attacks, in terms of resources it must be one of the biggest ever?

<basses:matrix.org> tokr: I recall Tor and i2p had DDoS going for weeks before, also this is a bit different kind of attack

"Qubic blocks in last 1440 heights: 333 (23.12%), orphaned 140/473 (29.60%), total orphan rate 43.34%, efficiency 86.19%"

efficiency 86.19% means they lose XMR because of selfish mining, even after all their reorgs

so it's just an expensive PR stunt for them

Sure, but it is an attack to disrupt a public service infrastructure, we're still at "disruption" level, right?

yep

<privacyx> > <@barthman132:matrix.org> That’s true! The amount of profit miners make from Qubic has gone down drastically, however it’s not having as much of an effect as I would have hoped

<privacyx> Its needs time as they paid once a week i think give it another month or two once they see there electricity bills compared there mining earnings you see many start to drop off. As from what i understood you got most mining tari as well with there GPU's going off when i mined tari I used RTX 4090 it was using around 300-350 wa [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/1-mLirUKaVV6dXlt ]

You can send emails to exchanges that list Qubic to notify them that they list a malicious attacker, and it's best to shutdown them :D

After today's reorg, they are malicious

<basses:matrix.org> shouldn't he be arrested? CFB

<basses:matrix.org> publicy attacking a service

<venture> thanks for this! > <sech1> efficiency 86.19% means they lose XMR because of selfish mining, even after all their reorgs

<basses:matrix.org> which is usually a known illegal thing "disruption of a service"

theoretically, yes

<barthman132:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: He lives in Belarus I doubt they care

practically, we can only ask exchanges to delist them as they are malicious

How much damage could Q do if they attacked some other critical infrastructure (what would be vulnerable beyond crypto?). Maybe we should change the narrative ?

<basses:matrix.org> tokr: loss of $$

<basses:matrix.org> customers frustration

Qubic is a botnet. They have full control of their miners, so they could in theory DDoS just about anything.

<basses:matrix.org> basically a threat actor

<basses:matrix.org> TA

Their mining software has a remote code execution capability, so they are not limited to mining Monero.

They're a bit more than that, it's not just lightbulbs with a network connection

<ofrnxmr> It sure af looked like lightbulbs with a neteork connection when they mined on p2pool

<ofrnxmr> Ton of orphans

<ofrnxmr> Uncles*

<venture> in light of this, PoP with k=3 wouldn't help much?

<ofrnxmr> Tevador, for dns checkpoints:

<ofrnxmr> in the immediate time:

<ofrnxmr> Going with 100% moneropulse, should we still use 7 domains?

<ofrnxmr> Node checking every 5mins? more/less?[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/r9K4irUKM0s3ZENp ]

PoP doesn't work against long reorgs. Only against selfish mining.

<ofrnxmr> monero-project/monero #10075

There should be at least 1 checkpoint per 10 blocks. A checkpoint every 5 minutes has a 99.99% chance of checkpointing at least once per 10 blocks, so it should be enough.

And how many checkpoints will be in rotation? 12, for 1 hour worth of checkpoints? Or more?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The node remembers old checkpoints its seen, but for bootstrapping nodes, i think we can probably do -5 to -15 (11 checkpoints)?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But to accommodate* bootstrapping nodes

A later checkpoint also commits to all previous blocks.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> On testnet atm, were only using 1 checkpoint. Should we do the same on mainnet?

alright I have arisen from sleep\

hope you are well rested

ofrnxmr / sech1 : rotating checkpoints is not great if they disappear as that also messes with the set-wise verification

tevador: I suggested having previous randomx seed height as well

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> They are remembered by the node (until it restarts)

note checkpoints added via DNS also trigger logic that other checkpoints set

including fast sync

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Older checkpoints are only needed to speed up wallet restore iiuc

and as mentioned, TTL needs to be brought down for set-wise verification. If 1m is doable, that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1m looks possible on cloudflare

otherwise no higher than 2 minutes. 5 minutes is already two high, as that needs to account for two tiers

you can also define an external DNS server in cloudflare if we want to deploy that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And i assume it would make sense for pools and exchanges to use DNS_PUBLIC=tcp://1.1.1.1 for the fastest resolution, since its CF to CF

yeah.

If you guy are worry about domain confiscation why not use in on .onion addresses? so it could reference whatever onion address you want, without the domain registrations and stuff

onion has TXT

but node operators not all run onion

I have a small script to do TXT updates in one transaction for cloudflare, ofrnxmr

it's much cheaper than run monerod

using their batch api

lemme untangle it and publish it standalone

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i'm waitong for response from binaryFate

we are a private coin, runnin a tor node, is not much difficult if we really care about privacy and stuff

<syntheticbird> TriggerCoder, not everyone can access Tor

it removes previous records + publishes new ones in one transaction, so all or nothing

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Would like him to run this on testpoints asap so we can torture it for a couple hours first

however, ofrnxmr, did you verify that new checkpoints in your script are part of the previously checkpointed chain? By walking it manually?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> DataHoarder: Rucknium's script. I dont have one

is it still the same script it was shared a few days ago?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I think it should probably confirm that the old checkpoints are in the current chain before creating a new checkpoint

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> DataHoarder: I believe so

so effectively all versions of grim trigger have triggered right?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Because its possible for the checkpointing node to be forked off before commiting to the checkpoints

yeah. I will check what exists

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If old check checkpoint exists in chain -> create new checkpoint, else do nothing and loop

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Script can dig for current records, confirm that the block exists on the checkpointed node, then create and push new checkpoint.

syntheticbird: every major pool operator has access to TOR even mining through TOR enabled

<jack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> 3 double spends 👀

<syntheticbird> there is definitely someone losing his sunday in front of his PC...

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @jack_ma_blabla:matrix.org: there will be 117

<jack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: those which got invalidated ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> All of those 117 spends will eventually be re-spent, either in a week, or immediately if mined on a node that flushed the invalid txs

I asked supportxmr and moneroocean to flush their mempool

I have a script to update moneropulse dns records but not in one succeed-or-nothing transaction

I have tested it, now splitting it binaryFate

it's just a wrapper around their official SDK

<rucknium> DataHoarder: Yes, the logic isn't complicated, still. > <DataHoarder> is it still the same script it was shared a few days ago?

I'll try to replicate this as well on a script that queries monero too

given in the past few weeks I have implemented *THAT* a few dozen times :D

I have some code to be able to push blocks around P2P networks as well

in case we need to push alts

utility git.gammaspectra.live/P2Pool/monero…h/master/cmd/cloudflare-txt/main.go

usage $ CLOUDFLARE_API_TOKEN=<token_not_key_with_edit_rights> go cmd/cloudflare-txt -zone-id <zone id> -name test-checkpoints.gammaspectra.live -txt abcd1 -txt abcd2

get zone-id from Overview under the domain

-> API -> Zone ID

generate a TOKEN on dash.cloudflare.com/profile/api-tokens

"Edit zone DNS" template

give rights only to the specific domain

Permissions: Zone -> DNS -> Edit

Zone Resources: Include -> Specific zone -> gammaspectra.live (in my case)

it'll grab all TXT records on test-checkpoints.gammaspectra.live and replace them whenever it runs.

multiple -txt arguments can be passed

ttl can be specified via -ttl 1m or -ttl 120s etc.

you can statically compile the binary, ofc

cool thanks. I think I'm already good with token, I use a script to update hashes for every release

$ CGO_ENABLED=0 go build -trimpath -v -tags=purego,netgo -ldflags="-buildid= -bindnow -extldflags '-static'" -buildmode pie -o ./cloudflare-txt.bin ./cmd/cloudflare-txt

Note cloudlfare will currently limit TTL to 300s minimum

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I missed if someone already asked.... but why the fuck are invalid transactions tuffed back into the mempool

this creates a static binary named cloudflare-txt.bin

<rucknium> I will add something to the checkpointing script to make sure all historical checkpoints are on the checkpointing node's main chain. If not, raise exception.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> binaryFate: For txt records? Thats too long

binaryFate: not if set via API :D

but yes that's too long

irc.gammaspectra.live/ba36244d17063074/image.png

script needs Go 1.24 to build at least, but the static binary can run anywhere

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> For A records etc, maybe makes sense. But i think txt should allow a lower ttl

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Can you try it with 1minute ttl

letsencrypt and ACME check after 120s usually

I think even via API, as the domains are currently "managed" which limits it to 300s. Need to move them do "dns-only" to go lower.

ofrnxmr: my default does 1m, it works

can even see it $ dig +dnssec +multi test-checkpoints.gammaspectra.live TXT @1.1.1.1

I'm not sure large dns servers honor ttl much shorter than 300s

none won't except a few specific ones

~20s from update to first change

the records still inconsistent ofc

~2m to consistency in records at @1.1.1.1

(they have many servers answering under that IP)

nvm still one or two left with old records

now consistent. so ~2-3m for eventual consistency and that's querying the provider itself

after this other people that cache records would start getting consistent entries

this is with 1m TTL on cloudflare

I'll run a script that sets a record every 10 seconds with the timestamp in it

feel free to query to see when last record was set $ dig +dnssec +multi test-checkpoints.gammaspectra.live TXT @1.1.1.1

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> DataHoarder: Update every 1min and check it every 10seconds ?

I can do one minute

feel free to check, the txt record is the timestamp it was set to

<rucknium> DataHoarder: It's get on the same page: are you writing the checkpointing script or am I? I always assumed that my code wouldn't be used in production, so I didn't get it up to production state. And if I am finishing my script, is it going to interface with the gandi API or monero-highway?

rucknium: I am writing that now that I have the update utility

but yours should also be used as part of the test, ofc

I can have alternatives. for now I have interfaces with monero highway DNS, and cloudflare api

but I can add any other API in there if it has a sane config

<rucknium> Right now I will work on one for monero-highway since that interface is already written.

👍

lemme munch some food

be careful setting a TTL too low, or DNS resolvers will default it back to a much higher TTL

labs.ripe.net/author/giovane_moura/…n-the-wild-measured-with-ripe-atlas (and this is with only a TTL of 333)

at least the major 1.1.1.1 8.8.8.8 (and 9.9.9.9) seem to be respecting it, as TXT tends to be also used for changing records

yeah, sadly any higher TTL has issues when only one record can be placed as it matches the full set

yes, those should be fairly good about it; the Wikimedia DNS servers probably also respect it

TIL about wikimedia DNS :)

a very good DNS resolver! :)

$ dig +tls +dnssec +multi test-checkpoints.gammaspectra.live TXT @wikimedia-dns.org

seems to be getting recent ones

binaryFate: for monero daemon: no restricted RPC needed, but ZMQ-pub (same as used in p2pool) recommended to get faster block notifications

the --zmq-pub arg

binaryFate: also --keep-alt-blocks please :)

<rucknium> @syntheticbird:monero.social: Try to send a message in #monero-research-lab:monero.social now.

<syntheticbird> I can't

<rucknium> @syntheticbird:monero.social: Try now

<syntheticbird> it works

<rucknium> @syntheticbird:monero.social: Try again

<syntheticbird> muted

<syntheticbird> i can't

<syntheticbird> i can

<syntheticbird> nvm it works

<rucknium> Changes in power level needed to send messages don't register as a visible event in Matrix, it seems. Anyway, all seems to be working as expected.

<syntheticbird> nice

<syntheticbird> so now the channel can be lockdown

<rucknium> Exactly.

<rucknium> If necessary.

<syntheticbird> yeah of course

<helene:unredacted.org> as long as there's synchronisation to also mute the IRC side :p

Let's look later what can the bridge do for such moderated channels later @rucknium

leter :)

<helene:unredacted.org> for the irc side, any op can +m the channel and it will only voiced and mods speak :)

<helene:unredacted.org> has there been on-going spam lately?

<rucknium> @helene:unredacted.org: There has been some suspected propaganda attempts by Qubic, including impersonation of users. Not in #MRL, but in other channels.

<interestingband:matrix.org> link ?

<rucknium> libera.monerologs.net/monero/20250830#c577507-c577508

<rucknium> libera.monerologs.net/monero/20250830#c577588

^ the best part there is the "I tweeted" (no new tweets)

just pure FUD campaigns

<helene:unredacted.org> oh darn

<helene:unredacted.org> well i'm the same me here and on libera.chat, though that doesn't matter whatsoever :D

<basses:matrix.org> @rucknium: lmao

<basses:matrix.org> zcash or firo

<basses:matrix.org> moving to bitcoin would've been more believable

<noname-user0:matrix.org> can someone explain how a hybrid pow pos system is bad? even if single person owns all the stake if there is alternating block construction, they can only censor a single block at a time. same for pow attacks.

<noname-user0:matrix.org> everyone is just saying pure pos is bad because centralization and that the govt supposedly owns a bunch

<noname-user0:matrix.org> but in a hybrid system does that matter?

<noname-user0:matrix.org> even outside of a hybrid system why does it matter if a govt has stake in xmr... they could easily have that same share or more on the pow side just like qubic did

<noname-user0:matrix.org> isnt pow with a low security budget also subject to mining attacks by centralized entities?

<noname-user0:matrix.org> xmr needs to be high marketcap for it to function beyond a few people using it for gift cards and small online txs.

<helene:unredacted.org> @noname-user0:matrix.org: what's this about lol

<radanne:matrix.org> I'll point you to my prior message you might not have seen... > <@noname-user0:matrix.org> can someone explain how a hybrid pow pos system is bad? even if single person owns all the stake if there is alternating block construction, they can only censor a single block at a time. same for pow attacks.

<radanne:matrix.org> This one > <@radanne:matrix.org> Interesting, you didn't get any reasonable responses. I can say the same. Consider who the likely whales are, including the overall amount of Monero seized from DNMs and held in custody. Factor in 75% market acceptance, and you might arrive at a ballpark 2.1M Monero to date. That might as well be a 67% majority right from the start.

<syntheticbird> even if @rucknium:monero.social were evil I would defend him

you are trying to be reasonable @rucknium but that person has been pointed to lounge several times

then every time just goes on a rant about context being lab channel, only, blah blah

<rucknium> The limit has been reached. One more step forward is over the line.

He doesn't get it, he can keep talking but not on that channel

<basses:matrix.org> @rucknium:monero.social can you check what the Ethercalc link is in #monero-research-lab:monero.social ?

<basses:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/YiQSqoQBHcAwQXXOLyyOBbgZ.png (clipboard.png)

<basses:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/RmZvycazPudChdIxHalMtGzx.png (clipboard.png)

<rucknium> AFAIK, EtherCalc is a Matrix app for collaborative work. I will try to disable it.

<helene:unredacted.org> @syntheticbird: that's a beautiful romance, i will support it

<rucknium> @basses:matrix.org: I think I removed it

<rucknium> Room Info > Extensions

<basses:matrix.org> Cool thanks a lot!

<basses:matrix.org> can confirm removed

<rucknium> By the way, there is an appeals process, of sorts, in the VRP: github.com/monero-project/meta/blob…r/VULNERABILITY_RESPONSE_PROCESS.md

<rucknium> > If the Incident Response process in section III is not successfully completed:

<interestingband:matrix.org> There is no independent entitiy that can force luigi1111 to do what he said

<interestingband:matrix.org> .!.

<basses:matrix.org> can someone review monero-project/meta #1211 and monero-project/meta #1195 ?

CFB seems to be claiming their reorgs invalidated no txs cause they mined them at the same order, so global output indices are the same

First, this is not true. They have withheld txs which already change the global output indices

Second they didn't mine the transactions in the same order

Third, p2pool produces a coinbase tx with multiple outputs. These outputs also shift the global output index. They only produce blocks with 1 miner output, triple making their claim just lies at best

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Were all 117 txs their own?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> for their statement to be true, theyd have to be double spending

It's impossible to mine in the same order if you're already ahead in height - the other chain's block doesn't even exist yet

We have both sides of the chains, you can get the block header blob that has the list of tx ids

So you can't know the order of transactions there, it's not mined yet

To add more fun the first block they orphaned in the chain had zero txs

They had one withheld and a couple more irc.gammaspectra.live/064a2a6d3d2a31b7/IMG_6922.png

So yeah basically lies to malicious marketing

And unless they try to orphan by being one block behind always- as sech1 said they can't do this as they don't know :)

But ofc, you can track when the blocks and templates were added and they always build from tip

And yes each miner tx output is a global output index. Even when it can't get spent within 60 heights, the indices get altered for the rest of included transactions (and their outputs)

See example p2pool.observer/share/03e4fc21a4a3c…e60657793dbc1a399610756e91a4c30ca9d note the global output index

So if from the start they were misaligned (which they are, just due to having withheld transactions), their entire chain is attacking and invalidating transactions

As for why these transactions appear "new": when a transaction in a block gets orphaned, these go back to mempool new. When someone flushes the mempool, txs can make it in and get seen as new again

Also from the start, all coinbases are different so even if indices match, they will invalidate transactions with coinbases as decoys

To view when they were created/included, you can refer to the blocks around the reorg and dump their included txids from the block template. Alternatively, look at the block creation height from the transaction itself

Yes sech1, but that's 60+ of a reorg

Not 10+

Right

Anyway, if what CFB said was true, these 117 txs wouldn't get stuck in mempool

Their current marketing is "it wasn't us, it's Monero people pushing invalid txs back"

But again, the blocks themselves included ese by txid

Some of these were mined into Tari so you can prove they existed then with Tari as witness chain

Which gives you full block id, which has txids and full coinbase and header as its input

You can also show Qubic was mining their same blocks at the same time, same way. They made it into Tari

I need to write more code yay :)

:)

What are those "spam" transactions? xcancel.com/c___f___b/status/1967236480188948623#m

We're so cooke

*cooked

tokr: on blocks.p2pool.observer I call them withheld transactions

They are transactions that qubic made and did not disclose, to include in their blocks

For example blocks.p2pool.observer/block/46f1dc…bdd63a4523c153d2e5340ba7fc677a72a7a

This has a withheld transaction

ok tnx, - it sounded like they were deliberately adding transactions on the public chain knowing they would be orphaned

They might, but those txs are old

<rucknium> I have data from the txpool archiver if you need that. Of course, that doesn't prove anything.

Unless they fucked something up these withheld transactions stay withheld until mined later - so unless qubic gets reorg back those would always be valud

DataHoarder: blocks.p2pool.observer looks nice, - is it meant for public?

Yes, source code is also open

ok, tnx

It's a mini block explorer + archiver as there was no good way to see alt blocks

I'll probably revamp it more in the future but for now it's good enough

<syntheticbird> >block exporer + archiver

<syntheticbird> >fully fledged UI

<syntheticbird> >is fast

<syntheticbird> # "mini"

<syntheticbird> datahoarderchad.mp4

It also gets cached

;)

And let's you download block headers via hex endpoint or curl command!

<gingeropolous> so any word on whether the massive re-org was due to significant bump in qubic hashrate or did they get super lucky?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> They probably rented 4gh for an hour

@syntheticbird: mini because it only displays limited information like in blocks.p2pool.observer/block/47536a…bb0563fe6a4bbd0adf8d27e3b0b367e62a3

They will get lucky occasionally and then blow that cherry-picked result out of proportions.

gingeropolous: I can check some numbers. I assume besides a limited +200MH/s from usual the rest comes from a lucky burst of blocks closer to the trunk of their reorg

There are many ways to mine on qubic and not show as hashrate, for example, setting your miner to only report higher difficulty shares

This can be done at any pool, so an approach as Rucknium did looking at on-chain production tends to be more likely to spot this. Was it luck, or was it extra hashrate at the perfect timing, a few times in a row, and not any other time in between, matching earlier trials that night?

<rucknium> If you have 40% of network hahpower and are only aiming to do 18-block re-orgs, you should be able to acheive about 6 per day. According to my calculations: "Table: Duration of meta attack to achieve attack success probability of 50 percent" monero-project/research-lab #102#issuecomment-2402750881

<rucknium> But it is possible and likely that Qubic may be temporarily boosting their hashpower sometimes.

Their hardest part seems to be getting +2 ahead

btw, returning to the "same tx indices" topic - p2pool even does a random shuffle of all selected transactions when creating a block template :D

That has never seen the burst of luck - that happens after

yeah. They'd have to reorg from behind sech1

And matching number of outputs in miner tx too ofc

I think they just wait for +2 ahead and then flip the switch on extra hashrate

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: where do you rent the equivalent of 160.000 ryzen 7950x with a click of a button for 1 hour :) no cloud providers having such power available allow mining, besides the orchestration needed...

But not every time, it seems to be manually controlled

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: well, you could steal it, or be sponsored

Where? One time when they didn't hide this extra hashrate, it was all from China

The last time this was advertised by CfB weeks ago it was also specifically around Saturday-Sunday marathons

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> sech1: from which provider?

We can't know, we only saw that their chinese-based pools got extra hashrate

Need to do a bit more analysis on that afterwards

It's more that specific pools found a biased amount of solutions compared to history outside of the specific outliers in luck

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> and whats bad about those qubic blocks / why do they cause reorganization? they dont include tx from users or what?

They explicitly break transactions due to how monero transactions are built - and allow also double spends

They also don't have that many transactions from users, but that's a different topic

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> DataHoarder: i constantly get tx_rejected today when i try to send xmr

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> djd you make a tx during the 18 block reorg?

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> i think i received money during that time. how does it matter? my wallet says X amount of XMR available/unlocked

Do you run a local node?

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> yes

ofrnxmr: is it time for flushing?

What would happen to a wallet which received a transaction and unlocked, did nothing, but later such tx was invalidated ofrnxmr? How does the db for wallet deal with that?

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> DataHoarder: you say i received a tx that got 10 confirms and was later invalidated (one of the 117 txid i was reading about?)

Unknown. Let's try to figure out without you disclosing anything yet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The first 10 blocks of txs should have been valid, and spendable

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The other 8 blocks txs would have never made it to unlocked state, and should show 0 confs or similar

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> i get tx_rejected and in the end it says double spend

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> i didnt send any money today, only received

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You wouldnt be able to try to spend invalid txs, only way i think for you to get to that state, is for you to have spent during the reorg

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> hmmm

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> i do however know i got some txid dropped around 16 hours ago, they were never confirmed

do you want to disclose the txid of that or prefer not to?

All up to you, can see what else can be done otherwise

All I can think is how hard it'd be to make a InProof of that without custom code

<radanne:matrix.org> @rucknium: Yes they do, I saw brief bursts over 51%

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @radanne:matrix.org: Their reported hashrate has been like 15gh before

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Take it with a grain of salt. they also report 2.5gh as 50%, so they arent particularly honest in their representation either

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> They also claimed (today) that they didnt invalidate any txs

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yet, its plain to see that they invalidated 117

<radanne:matrix.org> Nice guys

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: i can confirm lol

<longtermwhale:synod.im> i'm getting frustrated now. when will my transaction be valid? monero has been consistently problematic, and i'm fed up with its issues. can't wait to sell all of my coins and move on to another cryptocurrency that doesn't have the same problems

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> why steal my name sucker?

<longtermwhale:synod.im> who are you?

<longtermwhale:synod.im> @radanne:matrix.org: qubic had 49% at one point. ofrn "scammer" xmr is downplaying the power qubic has. sell now

ahahaha they are at it again @rucknium:monero.social

this is funny cause IRC shows the full :synod.im vs :matrix.org part

<rucknium> @plowsof:matrix.org: please ban @longtermwhale:synod.im for impersonation.

<longtermwhale:synod.im> longtermwhale is not a unique name

<datahoarder> where is the tweet you posted :)

<datahoarder> same playbook

<rucknium> Same Matrix server, too. monero.social could consider blocking synod.im

They will find a different one, but yeah they are quite lazy

<longtermwhale:synod.im> ruck "nigeria" nium

<longtermwhale:synod.im> another scammer

@longtermwhale:matrix.org how does it feel to get impersonated by these people to spread FUD? achievement I'd say :)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @rucknium: @plowsof:matrix.org please give rucknium ops here too