<r​brunner7:monero.social> chch3003: I refer to "Regarding the website I started I think I will do the same as current one. " I don't know much yet about the things you mention there, like "YAML", "astroi18n" and "astroi18next". Just let me stress that a rebuilding of the Monero website from the ground up would be an excellent chance for improvements, and I think we also should make a serious attempt to imp<clipped message>

<r​brunner7:monero.social> rove "contributeability"

<r​brunner7:monero.social> With this I mean the following: How easy is it to contribute content or changes to the website? How much do I have to know, have to master in order to be able to? The lower this hurdle is, the more contributors and the more contributions we will get.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> This may influence the choice of formats.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> You dont know what yaml is ?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Weird

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Well, "YAML" can mean almost anything, no? I was wondering what *exactly* you mean with "YAML" in the context of Astro and our new website.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> .yml files

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Have a link to a good example of a non-trivial such file?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I just wake up

<r​brunner7:monero.social> :)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I will in a bit

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Take your time. We have the whole day I guess :)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Yep

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I checked, and indeed I wasn't properly aware how far YAML has moved beyound "Originally YAML was said to mean Yet Another Markup Language" and is now a proper, well-defined particular format. So I guess for me the question moves to which aspects of the website would get specified using .yml files. For people reading along: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YAML

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I thought you contributed to the current website and knew how it works.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> If you look at github.com/monero-project/monero-site/tree/master/_i18n you can see that "regular web pages content" is in .yml like github.com/monero-project/monero-site/blob/master/_i18n/fr.yml

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Then we have "blog pages content/content-heavy pages" in Markdown, and .po for weblate (I need to understand why) github.com/monero-project/monero-site/tree/master/_i18n/fr/resources

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Thanks for the links. I see now what you refer to. I agree that we seem to have little need to change something fundamental here, and it's already quite contributor-friendly. Anyway, those particular YAML files use only a quite small subset of the format's features, which is nice.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> By the way, looking to all this "from the outside", like I do now because I only contributed very few things to the website and that was years ago, can have its advantages: A "fresh" look at things that people may take for granted for a long time usually can't do harm - as long as it does not degenerate into wasting time for everybody.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> By the way, the blog posts are not translated, but Moneropedia is

<c​hch3003:monero.social> If this project goes anywhere, I don't see it to replace the current website before being feature-complete, content-complete, prefered by the people, prefered by the devs actually maintaining it, etc I think it has to run side by side for a long time, before we eventually decide that it can run at the official url.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Sounds good as an approach. If we can indeed keep up the effort to make any changes twice for an extended period of time ...

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I guess it will just depend on me lol

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Ah, come on, that's a bit pessimistic now :) I think if many people make changes with both technology stacks, there will be good comparisons and judgements about the amount of progress and improvement done.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> External contributions is great, but the reality is that most of the time you just have a single guy maintaining everything

<r​brunner7:monero.social> xkcd.com/2347

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Reading this now monero-project/monero-site #1754 In new Figma design developer guides and user guides is integrated in website.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Would have to decide if we want to keep it that way

<c​hch3003:monero.social> My opinion is that Antora is the best tool for that

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Since I already doxxed myself because I am too lazy to keep my anonymity and fuck it, here is a project I made with Antora bitcoinjs-guide.bitcoin-studio.com

<c​hch3003:monero.social> You can see that there are v4 and v5 versions of bitcoinjs, each mainained in a separate git branch (that's one of the strengh of Antora, it is git based)

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Again, I can just do it without asking permission but I can't be full-time in all that unfortunately

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Actually I would keep User guides on the website, there are just like blog posts.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> The only thing I see that could be improved is having versioning on Wallet/Daemon RPC, where Antora would be helpful.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Hopefully a number of people will chime in with their opinions. As for me, the answer to the question whether to use *any* documentation management platform for our website would be a resounding "Hell, no!"

<r​brunner7:monero.social> The added complexity is really not worth it, IMHO.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I would be curious to see github.com/monerodocs/md but it's down

<r​brunner7:monero.social> web.archive.org/web/20230821234134/https://monerodocs.org a bit slow, but should give an impression

<r​brunner7:monero.social> The "tree control" to the left has only 2 levels. Piece of cake. If you can't do that reasonably in Astro pure, the tool is not worth its salt.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> That content is also on current website?

<r​brunner7:monero.social> And yes, I am aware about "everything comes out automatically" versus manually keeping a menu current

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Not as a whole, I think. Maybe some pages and Moneropedia entries that cover the same things.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Having the tree menu without client-side JS is possible

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Something else, the menu looks good but not mobile friendly

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> websitecarbon.com

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> is getmonero.org carbon neutral ?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> W T F

<c​hch3003:monero.social> On the demo website I made I installed Shadcn component library but I realize now that too many components will not work without JS.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> So I think the best solution for that is to make custom components with Tailwind and HTML.

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I don't find a component library that never use any JS.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> *Tailwind*, that's this here, right? tailwindcss.com

<c​hch3003:monero.social> yes

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Sounds attractive if we can avoid yet another complex beast like a "true" component library entering the picture, IMO. And I guess if we don't overdo it with Tailwind based custom componets development effort stays reasonable.

<h​ammermann09:matrix.org> I don't have a technical background, but maybe you guys can use Gitbook for the website documentations? It's kinda like an industry standard for docs at this point. I've seen many projects use it

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Tailwind is just to have more maintainable CSS and by extension components

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I lost a good 2 hours trying to use tailwind-variants.org thinking it was not working but it's actually Webstorm my IDE that has an issue with Astro 😪

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Anyway, the idea now is to use this to create HTML/Tailwind CSS components that are easy to maintain

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Can also create components of components, for example a Card that contain a header, a paragraph and a button

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Who would have to work with that? Only the initial designer(s) of the website (as long as the design does not undergo a major revision)?

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Not the design but the web dev

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Not the designer but the web dev

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I mean creating the components is not easy, but easy them is easy

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I mean creating the components is not easy, but using them is easy

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Ah, ok, I mixed up the roles, but that's the info I wanted to hear :)

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> The problem with a documentation site is you need a search bar.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> If you don’t you’ll be there for ages looking for something

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Well, I have encountered a considerable number of website where site search was definitely worse than using Google and the *site:* operator ...

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Most use the internal to search

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Like flexsearch.js

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Depends on the platform or theme you use

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> They all have something

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Mkdocs,mdbook,docsify ,docusaurus etc

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I just hope you don't decide to allow JS once I am done writing all the components in CSS only

<c​hch3003:monero.social> Ideally a proper doc for the daemon and cli, with versioning, should be a separate website

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But we still add the doc in the website I am working on

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> As long as you can search it

<c​hch3003:monero.social> We can have a search bar that only works if you have JS enabled

<c​hch3003:monero.social> But still, we are missing versionning. It's just not the right tool for a proper doc imo