<c​atduck101:matrix.org> can someone review/approve pr 2550? thanks.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Need consensus

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i don't personally have a preference about whether to list retoswap alone, or whether to list haveno and have retoswap as a sub-listing.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> It was sub-listed before, now is standalone

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Issue with standalone is that there can be many different haveno networks (currently is 1 in use, potentially 2 that are "live" (i havent checked out dawnswap)), but i imagine more will pop up after reto starts charging fees

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> today, there is only 1 notable haveno network, so it seems sane to list it as standalone. But if in the future there are 2+, i think it would make more sense to list as sublistings

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Listing as sub from day 1 saves from having to go through drama of changing how it is listed in the future, but who's to say that there will ever be more than 1?

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> neither do I but it seems like hardenedsteel suggested it'd be better as standalone.

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> fair

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> hardened also pointed out that retoswap has not-great support / mediation

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But people will recommend it mostly because its the only option for p2p fiat<->xmr

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> yeah that's true

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> anyway, id like to hear more opinions on whether to list clones / instances as standalone, or as sublistings to haveno

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats the main reason i havent approved, is i would might lean towards sublistings half the time. So would like other views

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> yeah sure, let's see if someone else chimes in

haveno.exchange does not endorse any networks at this time, but getmonero will because people want it there, i assume the same people also want it to be on haveno.exchange but for some reason?

core would have to merge such a PR imo

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I don't usually care too much what happens with the website, but I happened to read ofrnxmr 's comment today that PR #2550, the one to add add Retoswap, might profit from some opinions. So I had a look.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> The PR as-is, with Retoswap its own "tile", looks ok to me. I don't see any need to bring some hierarchy into this because in the future there may be more networks based on Haveno technology. Seems to me we can easily add e.g. 2 more such "tiles" for 2 more such networks, still without any two-level presentation, first level "Haveno" and second level the individual networks.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> The text now clearly mentions the relationship between Haveno and Retoswap, which is necessary, and sufficient how it's proposed in that PR.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> I can add this my opinion to the PR if you think that's useful.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> About also linking to Retoswap from haveno.exchange, like plowsof asked yesterday: In my understanding that is something to decidedly **not** to do. I understand haveno.exchange to be part of the Haveno project, and that project shall not endorse or recommend any particular "hot" trade network. If some law enforcement should ever move against Retoswap, the Haveno project should be<clipped message>

<r​brunner7:monero.social> able to fully stay out of that, with the argument that they have nothing to do with it.

<r​brunner7:monero.social> With links to it of course you undermine this IMHO important argument.

site is deployed and v0.18.4.4 binaries are now available

thanks binaryFate

.merges

Merge queue empty

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Rip

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> Makes sense

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> So basically you like it standalone. In case if any new network appears, you are okay with giving it an individual tile.

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> since we talking about exchanges - had this idea for the new website.

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Split the "merchants and exchanges" section into two parts: "Merchants" and "Exchanges". "Exchanges" would go into the "Getting started" section, "Merchants" would stay in the community section.

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> "Exchanges" would contain a collection of exchanges where monero is on P2P tools etc, and to really improve the UX and frictionless for newcomers - could even integrate some kind of trusted swap provider iframe on the page like it is on bitcoin.org/en/buy. Trocador, OrangeFren, or any other that is privacy-aligned (ideally replaced with a frictionless Serai frontend when i<clipped message>

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> t launches someday)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> A big criticism of Monero i see is that it is difficult to buy it despite not really being the case, lots of people always ask in Telegram/Discord "how to buy Monero", "is this safe" - having a specific section for just that in the page, right in the getting started area would be a UX plus for newcomers.

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> The user story would be improved too, the flow for the "Start using Monero" section could be as such:

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> - 1. Choose a wallet - links to /downloads

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> - 2. Get coins - links to /exchanges

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> - 3. Use Monero - links to /merchants

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Thoughts?

<b​asses:matrix.org> >could even integrate some kind of trusted swap provider iframe on the page like it is on bitcoin.org/en/buy.

<b​asses:matrix.org> on monero website?

<b​asses:matrix.org> >A big criticism of Monero i see is that it is difficult to buy it despite not really being the case

<b​asses:matrix.org> it depends, a lot of countries ban monero and leave other shitcoins.

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Yes, personally not big on integrating any kind of iframe as it kind of undermines the neutrality of the page, but it would be a definite UX improvement imo

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Hm, could filter by locale

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Although thats not really foolproof, nvm

<b​asses:matrix.org> nah. I wouldn't introduce any extra attack vectors. I think we will also block and reduce attack vectors using CSPs.

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Fair enough, what about the section split itself?

<b​asses:matrix.org> sounds good

<b​asses:matrix.org> also we striving to do like doc.qubes-os.org/en/latest/introduc…aq.html#should-i-trust-this-website

<b​asses:matrix.org> distrust the website

<b​asses:matrix.org> but there haven't been any discussion about setting it up the same way the do it with signing etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i think both should remain under community

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Finding "exchanges" shouldnt be "hidden" under getting started - should be right beside merchants

<b​asses:matrix.org> I was talking about getting started setup

<b​asses:matrix.org> agree

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> clarifying, meant for exchanges to go here, in the "Get Started" dropdown instead of the "Community" - next to accept monero and mining

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> as to get started with Monero you do have to buy it or mine it

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/tsxVhtZwzpQWWOjSPkEXXYHA

<b​asses:matrix.org> actually I think we didn't understand red's proposal

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> or accept it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Merchants and exchanges should be in the same section

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> That's not the case aswell, you can buy btc or some other coin which is not banned and swap it to monero using a vpn.

<b​asses:matrix.org> fees

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> one is how to obtain or sell monero, the other is how to spend or earn

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> I guess makes sense for both to go in getting started in that case

<b​asses:matrix.org> and comparing it to just buying the coin, it is a bit of more steps to just get the coin

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I believe they are under community. Because none are endorsed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I believe they are under community because none are endorsed

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> But they would probably fit under getting started

<b​asses:matrix.org> you had me confused with the descriptions of community dropdown menu cards

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Juat buying the coin (with fiat) typically has highest fees as well :)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> yeah, "section" is ambigous, mb

<b​asses:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/wODFYPXQQXrZjucPPNTFGpfK

<b​asses:matrix.org> I meant these

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> Yeah random for now

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> existing site has a disclaimer footer of non-endorsment at the bottom for those sections - can be ported over to make that clear, cause i think they are a better fit in getting started imo

<b​asses:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/xtqObIpJshYZbmiemEYSsHMi

<b​asses:matrix.org> so u basically want it like that redsh4de?

<b​asses:matrix.org> or below "Accept Monero"

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> sec, gonna arrange the items

<b​asses:matrix.org> you can sketch stuff, no need to do live changes on the website

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> im running a live refresh locale instance, its easier to make changes in there quickly then take a screencap

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> but yes, effectively both items would go in get started, arranged in a way that kind of tells a story

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 1 - what is monero? (user learns what it is about)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 2 - buy monero (user purchases his first coins)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 3 - accept monero (if a merchant, potentially wants to accept)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 4 - spend monero (after accepting/buying, next step is spending it somewhere)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 5 - contribute

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 6 - faq

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> but yes, effectively both items would go in get started, arranged in a way that kind of tells a story

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 1 - what is monero? (user learns what it is about)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 2 - buy monero (user purchases his first coins)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 3 - accept monero (if a merchant, potentially wants to accept)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 4 - spend monero (after accepting/buying, next step is spending it somewhere)

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 5 - contribute

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 6 - mining

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> 6 - faq

<b​asses:matrix.org> all that in "Getting started"? What is most important part is the first web page.

<b​asses:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/FKNGXKQSqGWdLdWOwPHHAdvt

<b​asses:matrix.org> especially this.

<b​asses:matrix.org> Send Monero/Use Monero links to user-guides

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> ends up having the same item count as the current resources section

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/nykJwGtiMqCUisNTcAiiUDXj

<b​asses:matrix.org> hmm, actually makes sense

<b​asses:matrix.org> but now you have used up the icon for "Sponsorships" for "Spend Monero" lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> will see what other thinks of this change to "Getting started" menu and for the icon we can modify flaticon.com/free-icon/spending_107…on=1&origin=tag&related_id=10758854 by removing the dollar icon and change it to Monero Diego Salazar

<b​asses:matrix.org> unless diego have other icon idea on his mind

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> theres some crossover here

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What is monero | faq

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> buy | spend & earn*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> accept* | mining

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> contribute

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Spend & earn include stuff like xmrbazaar, where you can create offers to sell goods and services

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Accept would be to tools like btcpayserver, woocommerce etc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think merchants and exchanges were probably one page because buy, spend, and earn, can be the same platforms

<b​asses:matrix.org> where is "Spend & Earn"?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> i guess you can do

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> buy/sell (exchages) | spend/earn (merchants and classifieds)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> accept (merchant tools) | mining

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> smth like this

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/CJXPWzXSuhlruJcWwhyhUauc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yup

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> ofrnxmr what do you think? got any counterarguments?

<b​asses:matrix.org> why spend is on the right not below Accept? HODL mindset?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Accept is for merchant tools like woocommerce

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Buy and spend go together

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Buy and spend = consumer stuff

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> accept and mining = producer stuff

<r​edsh4de:matrix.org> the flow of the cards in rows - buy and spend are meant to be together in one row

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> why am I seeing two different ofrnxmrs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Because there are 2 ofrns

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> Huh, who's who

is this what you wanted basses? github.com/plowsof/monero-site/releases thoughts on this? each deployment tag it as a release - tag name/title could just be yyyymmdd i guess

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Use the "auto generate" feature

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> :P

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> That shows contributors, acks first time contributors, lists commits or prs in a cleaner formemat

ofrnxmr im still crying because i did click auto generate , and thats what it gave me

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Oh, probably because its on personal repo

ah ok, ill check -site (without pushing)

should work right? -_- tags = date of deploy so yyyymmdd is sane?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yeah, i think thats sane

<b​asses:matrix.org> p​lowsof, kinda yeah thanks but more normies friendly like github.com/privacyguides/privacyguides.org/releases

<b​asses:matrix.org> also like the ones for KDE and GNOME etc

<b​asses:matrix.org> but they do it on their site, so privacyguides way is more suitable for us

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats what The auto-gen does

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Plowsof's example is just missing it because his repo doesnt have the pull requests

<c​atduck101:matrix.org> Also

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> github.com/monero-project/monero-site/releases/tag/2025-11-19 rando ofrnxmr (luigi1111 helped reverting the init branch before i destroyed everything, thanks)

<b​asses:matrix.org> thanks sir

<b​asses:matrix.org> can close monero-project/monero-site #2453

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> thanks for requesting

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> THANKS FOR IGNORING MY NACK. (Srsly stfu, it looks good)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thanks for suggest, rando

<3​21bob321:monero.social> DDMMYY where not heathens

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> we use ISO 'round here