<diego:cypherstack.com> better?

<diego:cypherstack.com> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/cypherstack.com/hJbrSeumGlpHLkeclitZluRE.png (image.png)

<ofrnxmr> I say: use the duck

<ofrnxmr> The main thing i dont like, is the ledger & trezor

<ofrnxmr> Too obvious looking of a brand endorsement

<plowsof:matrix.org> thats a kastello enclosure

<ofrnxmr> Soon you'll have coinwallet asking to have their products put into "official" imagery

<321bob321> Is that the ledger with 24/25

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> One of those

<billionarebear:matrix.org> We are building a product on web3 platform where we are simplifying crypto finance step by step for noob user and also for geek user like

<billionarebear:matrix.org> 1. User comes to platform and he will buy crypto with the help of p2p

<billionarebear:matrix.org> 2. after buying crypto he will have option to invest it via staking and liquidity pools

<billionarebear:matrix.org> 3. we are creating marketplace for crypto where user will have options to buy services this will help us to create circular economy[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/78jEg9EKNmRvT1Jr ]

<321bob321> Xmrc 20 ?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/koXCqYUlhBCuGSJIfysjjWJj.png (image.png) > <@diego:cypherstack.com> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/cypherstack.com/hJbrSeumGlpHLkeclitZluRE.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> lgtm, the cargo pants are a nice fit

<redsh4de:matrix.org> light mode

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/PJSmXJGmUgMzcdOPsYhumOxX.png (image.png)

<syntheticbird> Having a gradient fade out around the border of the image would be better i think > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/koXCqYUlhBCuGSJIfysjjWJj.png (image.png)

<syntheticbird> YES I'LL SPAM IRC

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: you mean like so?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/obtzjhafcvTTzRCBlxdzpJRo.png (image.png)

<syntheticbird> yep

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FAJDaqIZJYMDaNqvZbdLpyoS.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> ye looks nice

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/phDgZlFFtAZICdMSBdIdPSai.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> thoughts on something like this for the exchange page?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> the items would either link to a table with the option, or using :target highlight specific items in a table

<redsh4de:matrix.org> thinking about what kind of UI would be the most helpful to someone who has just heard about Monero

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @diego:cypherstack.com:

<ofrnxmr> Too hard to put things in those categories

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Any suggestions?

<ofrnxmr> 1. Any exchange can be used for that. Cex, dex, p2p, atomic swaps

<ofrnxmr> 2. Obv some things from the other sections also support fiat

<ofrnxmr> 3. Some privacy focused decentralized exchanges do have central authorities

<ofrnxmr> @redsh4de:matrix.org: Probably something like current site, or a matrix like current sites download page, or like new sites download page

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: 1. That section's meant specifically for newcomers - was made with the thought to prioritize frictionless avenues when addressing newcomers, and instant swap exchanges are that - no need to make accounts, download binaries or run nodes - click a button, enter address, send and done. The idea is to have a table of [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/vu_RkNEKMFo5VzBq ]

<redsh4de:matrix.org> 2. Table would have two rows - crypto and fiat, with checkbox or cross

<redsh4de:matrix.org> 3. Fixed by changing the description

<redsh4de:matrix.org> I'll do a quick mockup of the full thing i had in mind - but with the tables/matrix this would be like a sidebar which would highlight all rows that apply, smth of that sort > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/phDgZlFFtAZICdMSBdIdPSai.png (image.png)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1. We dont want to list instant exchanges. Too many problems. And atomic swaps are technically better, but higher friction.

<redsh4de:matrix.org> What about aggregators?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Trocador/OrangeFren

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> we also don't list em, though better than listing exchanges directly. Its been suggested to just point to kycnot.me instead

<redsh4de:matrix.org> fwiw there are a few instant swappers listed on the current page

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Generally for something like this a disclaimer bar can be added "anything listed here is not a endorsement, informational purposes only etc" right on top of everything

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Most swappers are doing 10-50 confs (20-100mins), so i personally wouldnt recommend using them

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ^

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> they were added long ago, issues, havent delisted yet

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> New swappers pop up every couple weeks and want to be listed, half of them scams

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Other half do selective scamming, send specially constructed txs, have 100min swap times, etc

<redsh4de:matrix.org> true, in that case listing aggregators would be a good middle ground then for convenient access to newcomers? Trusted, vetting of scams offloaded to them

<redsh4de:matrix.org> I think there are three off the top of my head - Trocador, OrangeFren and Cyphergoat

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i think the consensus was to point to kycnot.me, but listing the aggregators is still better (for us) than listing / vetting individual swappers

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> And eigenwallet & basicswapdex are better instsnt swappers as well

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Truly trustless and also faster

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But they arent web-based / require software installation

when erc was site maintainer merchants where stopped being accepted because of the time and upkeep they require, we've seen it with some recent ones github.com/monero-project/monero-si…%3Apr+label%3A%22Listing+request%22

s/merchants/instant exchangers mainly

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monero-project/monero-site #2430

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx>  monero-project/monero-site #2508

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> godex scamming ppl

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> plowsof: @redsh4de:matrix.org , note that i ACK'd listing aggregators, but there was never consensus on that

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (im not just being a hater.) There have been numerous suggestions to use kycnot.me as well.

<redsh4de:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: kycnot.me can def be listed at the bottom together with cryptwerk like on the current site , outside of the table layout, so there is a dedicated freeform section for other resources that may not fit in the matrix/table layout

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> kycnot.me/?categories=aggregator¤cy-mode=or¤cies=xmr

<redsh4de:matrix.org> im looking it like so: how many links does a user need to click in order to get to where they want to, the less the better

<redsh4de:matrix.org> if there are only 3-4 options and that list does not seem to change, i think it would be better to list those aggregators outright, one less link to click + fits in with the rest relatively well

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> kycnot.me has ratings and reviews

one less link to click but chatgpt does not have to do any leg work for when people complain about them

UX++ but humans have to maintain this

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Usually better than trustpilot etc

<redsh4de:matrix.org> I guess for the aggregator section it could be some pretty button linking to kycnot.me with the filter applied if listing the aggregators is a no go, or some combo of both

github.com/cyphergoat is an open source aggregator so the bar for a new service to be created is much lower

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Note that cyphergoat, trocador, and orangefren are all run by community members

<redsh4de:matrix.org> fwiw this is what i had in mind

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/lCpiXpbfaZYDYzpIyKWkwDsV.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> you click on any of the sidebar items, it highlights the appropriate rows

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qxzCJpJpRUPrsMPHDqoDDJMp.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> all without JS

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/HlOUiaYTsDsuqUfrrZBZntHS.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> aggregators etc aside (that can just be turned into one big kycnot.me button) - what about the overall concept? trying to UX-maxx here

<ofrnxmr> general concept looks good. Not a fan of some of the descriptions. id sort sections alphabetically, and id also put decentralized section first

<ofrnxmr> Retoswap isnt anonymous when you have to provide banking details.

<ofrnxmr> bisq and retoswap can arguably be referred to has having intermediaries (since reto doesnt work without being able to communicate with them).

<ofrnxmr> So i'd remove mentions of intermediaries and anonymous from the decentralized sections.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/8qzhk9EKTVZCZG9N ]

<ofrnxmr> And aggregators might not hold your funds, but the swappers do

<ofrnxmr> And "no kyc" for trocador is only true if you use an A rated exchange and dont send stolen funds. Even some A rated exchanges will perform AML checks and freeze the swap if the funds are tainted

<ofrnxmr> And eigenwallet is "ability to purchase xmr" (its not <->. You have to run a different addon program to go from xmr -> btc)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> idk

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XkXulUxnGldspNOXgKWLrpEB.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> idea: if the aggregator table is kept, the URL in the table can link to the kycnot.me URL of that service

<redsh4de:matrix.org> for example kycnot.me/service/trocador

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/qeCFNmZpXFgaQVageYtjTLUx.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> first thing the user would see

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I think this is probably ok > <@redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/XkXulUxnGldspNOXgKWLrpEB.png (image.png)

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Id also put that bisq is btc<->xmr only. You cant buy xmr using anything else there

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> (fiat is only <-> btc)

Maintain a list of aggregators and also link kycnitme?

<redsh4de:matrix.org> there is a case to be made for that - couple long running ones that people tend to refer to and are considered legitimate, and a full list via kycnotme

<redsh4de:matrix.org> same thing with no table would look roughly like this

<redsh4de:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/YWRhmwdUJffsjfidbzpoXyur.png (image.png)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> which option out of all three - up to everyone else

+1 for this one ^