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selsta
you would need other i2p monero nodes so currently that won't work
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Elon_Satoshi
Okay, so Monero transactions recieved through i2p are broadcasted over clearnet
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louipc
yea just go fully i2p then no prob ;)
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Elon_Satoshi
yea make a whole fork of monero that's only for i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
call it, uh, what's the lojban word for money?
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louipc
yea since monero forks so often its not a prob
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Elon_Satoshi
it is a problem because you have to update the entire code to support i2p
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louipc
yea thats the only issue
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Elon_Satoshi
hi apotheon
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Elon_Satoshi
we were just talking about how monero still uses the clearnet if you configure it to use i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
it only uses i2p to broadcast transactions, although i'm trying to figure out what exactly that means
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Lyza
it just means you download and upload blocks via clearnet -- this was chosen becausew there's really no information given by this, except that you run a monero node
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Elon_Satoshi
so this is how I visualize it: there are incoming transactions from outside that are then broadcasted, then there are transactions made using a Monero wallet client owned by you, sent to monerod via localhost
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Elon_Satoshi
Oh
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Elon_Satoshi
oh yes, then there are blocks
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Lyza
but yeah you get it; you
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Elon_Satoshi
so the blocks are downloaded via clearnet, never i2p
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Lyza
you'll also get transactions via peers via clearnet, and rebroadcast transactions via clearnet. But YOUR local transactions will be rel;ayed via i2p
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Lyza
yes ^^
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selsta
Elon_Satoshi: you can compile with --proxy option and then use tor
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Elon_Satoshi
Yes. Or I can use torsocks
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Elon_Satoshi
So only YOUR transactions are relayed via i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
But optionally you can accept incoming transactions via i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
But these are broadcast over clearnet
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Elon_Satoshi
Furthermore, the incoming i2p transactions come directly from someone making a local transaction and broadcasting it over i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
And monerod will never broadcast somebody else's transactions over i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
nor will it download the blocks over i2p
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Lyza
that all sounds right to me --- maybe somebody can confirm whether there is more than one hop for i2p transactions before relaying to clearnet, but I think there isn't
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Elon_Satoshi
Ah ok
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Elon_Satoshi
So what if someone is monitoring your traffic, and they know the only thing you use Tor or i2p for is for monerod
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Elon_Satoshi
Couldn't they assume that you're making a transaction every time there is outgoing i2p/Tor traffic? (assuming torsocks isn't being used and monerod is only broadcasting your transactions over Tor)
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louipc
sure
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Elon_Satoshi
Ah
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Lyza
<Elon_Satoshi> by default i2p connections send random noise to mask this
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Elon_Satoshi
Is that an i2p feature or a monerod feature?
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Lyza
monerod feature -- it can be disabled with a command line switch, which (apparently) results in more stable i2p connections :/
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Elon_Satoshi
Ah
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Elon_Satoshi
And it doesn't also send random noise through Tor
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Lyza
hopefully will be fixed -- but I still use the random noise feature. if you add a few "priority nodes" it's all groovy
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Lyza
I think it does, I just don't use tor. probably doesn't if using torsocks though
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Lyza
but if using torsocks all data will be tor so TXs are kind of hidden anyway ig
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Elon_Satoshi
I wonder if the random noise could be replaced by occasionally relaying other people's transactions through tor/i2p
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Elon_Satoshi
So both incoming clearnet and darknet transactions are relayed to other clearnet and darknet nodes
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Elon_Satoshi
How do incoming transactions work if you don't have a DNS domain or a .onion/.i2p address?
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Elon_Satoshi
I guess they're downloaded.
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vtnerd
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vtnerd
oh wait, its not in there, hmm
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vtnerd
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vtnerd
every 10-15 seconds a dummy packet is sent over I2P or Tor by default
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vtnerd
the size is always the same (3 KiB), and when transaction is sent is padded/divided into 3KiB chunks
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vtnerd
all data is not sent over I2P or Tor because you cannot ban remote nodes easily over those networks
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vtnerd
there is a PR (which I need to review) about sending all data over tor exit nodes, but thats different than using the hidden services
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vtnerd
theres also randomized delay on the receiver side to obfuscate the routing
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vtnerd
but it currently only does one hope over tor/i2p as Lyza mentioned
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Elon_Satoshi
Ah
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Elon_Satoshi
> // Bender's daydream
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Elon_Satoshi
What's that?
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vtnerd
its leftover from the original cryptonote developers
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vtnerd
I thought it was bender's nightmare actually, the daydream may have been a joke by moo or something
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vtnerd
bender's nightmare is a reference to the TV show Futurama
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vtnerd
_maybe_ the cryptozoidberg guy wrote it, which is a reference to the same sho
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vtnerd
oh mikezackles added that apparently
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Lyza
<Elon_Satoshi> incoming transactions involves generating an i2p address. see
getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/node-i2p-zero.html
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Elon_Satoshi
Are there ways for tor exit nodes to attack or monitor Monero traffic?
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Elon_Satoshi
That are less of a concern through i2p?
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vtnerd
its the same concern - theres just an ephermal pubkey to ban and nothing else
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Elon_Satoshi
Hmm. Suppose Monero nodes required some proof of work in order to be trusted?
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Elon_Satoshi
That would make ban evasion more expensive
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PapuaHardyNet
.faucet
-
Wallet
PapuaHardyNet: How many characters in gone
-
PapuaHardyNet
4
-
Wallet
PapuaHardyNet: @bonuspot tipped 0.000004 XMR to PapuaHardyNet [c395d18c] Wait ≈23 hrs 54 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01355137
-
apotheon
.faucet
-
Wallet
apotheon: How many letters in queer
-
apotheon
5
-
Wallet
apotheon: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000166 XMR to apotheon [e07f71c8] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01353477
-
apotheon
Elon_Satoshi: Did anyone mention whether blocks get updated over clearnet with Tor, too?
-
apotheon
01:29 < Elon_Satoshi> Hmm. Suppose Monero nodes required some proof of work in order to be trusted?
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apotheon
That seems like kind of a bad idea. It would penalize a lot of cases that shouldn't be penalized.
-
apotheon
. . . though I guess I haven't read enough backscroll to realize what kind of "trust" you mean to validate.
-
apotheon
I should just read the backscroll in the morning.
-
Inge
.duckcall
-
Wallet
Inge: ・゜゜・。。・゜゜(')> 🦆 'QUACK QUACK!!'
-
Inge
.befr
-
Wallet
Inge: SHE GOBBLED THE TREAT! Time: ≈3.14 sec Ratio: 1 of 1 Treats: 1 of 2
-
orangeboxcutter
.faucet
-
Wallet
orangeboxcutter: Your default coin is now set to XMR. Change with coins command.
-
Wallet
orangeboxcutter: @bonuspot tipped 0.0000037 XMR to orangeboxcutter [4e41156f] Wait ≈23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01353107
-
louipc
.beg
-
Wallet
louipc: How many chars in seven
-
louipc
5
-
Wallet
louipc: @bonuspot tipped 0.000001 XMR to louipc [58aa46fe] Wait ≈23 hrs 56 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01353007
-
louipc
ouch
-
pinheadmz
where can I learn how bitcoin bip44 wallets which use ECDSA can also be used to generate keys for Monero's ed25519 curve?
-
pinheadmz
is it not a big deal? just 32 byte int just like ecdsa so who cares how you derive it?
-
pinheadmz
-
apotheon
Ouch?
-
apotheon
louipc: Why ouch?
-
Norkle
.faucet
-
Wallet
Norkle: What number is FOUR
-
Norkle
4
-
Wallet
Norkle: @bonuspot tipped 0.00001 XMR to Norkle [0aaa5b5e] Wait ≈23 hrs 55 min before trying again. @bonuspot: 0.01352007
-
Pny
.faucet
-
Wallet
Pny: How many toes do humans normally have on 1 hand
-
Pny
5
-
Wallet
Pny: Oops that is not correct. Try again later. (No not immediately or I'll just ignore you..)
-
Pny
0
-
Pny
lol
-
orangeboxcutter
.tip Pny 0.000001
-
Wallet
orangeboxcutter: Oops: 0.000001 - invalid amount (must be 0.00001 or more)
-
louipc
apotheon: cuz it was low hah but yea should be grateful still :D