-
gingeropolous
part of my wants to max out these 2 supermicro quad opteron boards.. and part of me realizes that they'd be stupid power hungry
-
nsaunders
q
-
funuzd[m]
I've been (trying) to live off Monero for the past 6 months or so. I had somebody who was purchasing small quantities from me through cash in mail and I was also using gift cards. Cake aren't doing the gift cards anymore (outside of US) and my buyer isn't interested in Monero anymore. Are there any Aussies in here that would be interested in purchasing small quantities of non-KYC Monero from me? It would all be through escrow.
-
nsaunders
does a view only wallet require much storage?
-
skeptdev[m]
<funuzd[m]> "I've been (trying) to live off..." <- Unfortunately, unless your business targets privacy-focused clients, I don't think you're gonna succeed
-
naphtha777[m]
<funuzd[m]> "I've been (trying) to live off..." <- why not sell on localmonero
-
funuzd[m]
This isn't much of a business, I'm just looking to cover my bills and expenses each week.
-
funuzd[m]
LocalMonero looks like non-KYC volume trading which is not in the spirit of what I'm doing at all.
-
naphtha777[m]
localmonero has buyer ads and seller ads
-
modul8[m]
its not volume trading. anyone can use it. not sure of the fees to be honest.
-
anarkiocrypto[m4
bitrefill.com and
coinsbee.com/en/shop have gift cards for Australia if that helps.
-
naphtha777[m]
you can sell how much you want to buyer ads
-
modul8[m]
localmonero does not require an email address which is nice
-
naphtha777[m]
modul8[m]: fees arent that bad tbh, i can find ads buying for 5 eur less than the market value
-
naphtha777[m]
once i found someone buying for over market value
-
funuzd[m]
I did not know there were buyer ads. I will have a better look at it.
-
modul8[m]
<funuzd[m]> "I did not know there were..." <- may be better option to look there first as i dont see a good reason not to use it. hence why my spidey sense feeling a little tingle right now
-
funuzd[m]
As I said to you privately, we will either use escrow or I will assume all risk. I just looked, all the trades for me to "sell" through cash in mail are larger volume than I'm looking to deal with. There's no shortage of risk with non-KYC volume trading.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Have fun with YOUR trusted escrow
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ill take lm over whoareya anyday
-
ofrnxmr[m]
"i looked" and still wrong
-
omnero376[m]
<funuzd[m]> "As I said to you privately, we..." <- You're plainly lying. There are clearly 3 ads with no minimum, all of which are traders with thousands of 100% feedback. You can accept one of those ads and pay the fees (which make sense as you get the benefit of a trader with a lot of reputation), or place your own ad and deal with less reputable people at market price or better
-
omnero376[m]
actually there are 4
-
nsaunders
on ubuntu 23.04 there's no .bitmonero for the blockchain. Where does the GUI wallet store data?
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
-
DanIsnotthemanBr
-
omnero376[m]
<nsaunders> "on ubuntu 23.04 there's no ...." <- I thought that was the correct directory. Maybe you're just looking in the gui file browser with hidden directories not showing, so ctrl+h will show it?
-
nsaunders
no, I looked for hidden files. ls -lah
-
nsaunders
there's a monero folder, but no luck in there that I see.
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
where can I read more about the nuances about how Monero does pruning?
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
for example, if I create a pruned node for myself, can I use that node to restore an old wallet?
-
sech1
yes
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
or does such an old wallet need info that pruned nodes may not provide?
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
how does the pruned node still "know" about the enotes of an old wallet (a few years old let's say, and let's say I create the pruned node "today")
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
because the pruned node lacks 2/3 of the blocks
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
so it might not be able to provide the wallet the full set of enotes?
-
sech1
Pruned node has all blocks, it just stores 1/8 of prunable data for each block. You can still sync a wallet from it.
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
is there a disadvantage, to the user, running a pruned node and not a full node?
-
plowsof11
if the user wants to host xmrchain.net they need a full node
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
Yeah that must suck. Apart from that, using a pruned node as an xmr wallet's server seems to have no disadvantages to the user. Good.
-
plowsof11
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
I read that, and the moneropedia one, too
-
k4r4b3y[m]1
currently going through the monero stackexchange's prune tag.
-
alex[m]1234
hey
-
alex[m]1234
why monero price is down?
-
alex[m]1234
145$ ?
-
alex[m]1234
Oh my bad 1 XMR = 1 XMR
-
plowsof11
alex price talk -> #monero-markets:monero.social
-
-
nothsec[m]1
There is lots of stickers everywhere in Bulgaria
-
nothsec[m]1
Good job guys
-
minth
#monero-markets is also here on libera, no need to go to matrix for it
-
Demetrius[m]1
first confirmation is so fast, less than 30 sec
-
Demetrius[m]1
is that right?
-
minth
sounds about right, it can also take a few minutes
-
TrasherDK[m]
<gingeropolous> "part of my wants to max out..." <- I feel your pain. Having CPU's able, but not free, is frustrating.
-
TrasherDK[m]
<funuzd[m]> "I did not know there were..." <- funuzd: Looking for buyers in a market, you should start by looking at the sellers in the same market, just to understand the mark-up you will experience, engaging in that market.
-
TrasherDK[m]
<k4r4b3y[m]1> "> <@k4r4b3y:karapara.net> is..." <- I have `rsync`d against remote pruned nodes, many times. After, the local, `rsync`en node, launch, and continues, like nothing.
-
TrasherDK[m]
48 hours in, fsck.ext4checking a 2.7 TB partition. Life sucks.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
<funuzd[m]> "I've been (trying) to live off..." <- LocalMonero is the perfect case for you, m8. It's not "volume trading" specialized by any means.
-
Alex|LocalMonero
funuzd: join #localmonero:agoradesk.com as well, plenty of aussie sellers there.
-
alex[m]1234
How does mobilecoin compare to monero?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Pos fork
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Thats as far as i got
-
apotheon
Isn't it kind of a snake oil more-centralized pseudo-fork thing from CryptoNote?
-
alex[m]1234
is it better than monero?
-
apotheon
alex[m]1234: Avoid it. IT's shit.
-
apotheon
Monero's much better.
-
apotheon
The founders/coredevs were on board with the idea of making it trackable by the state and censorable for what they think of as reasonable purposes.
-
apotheon
I have yet to see a straight-up cryptocurrency I'd take more seriously as a protection of my privacy than Monero.
-
alex[m]1234
So why is in integrated in signal?
-
apotheon
DarkFi looks good, but it's a very different thing with different use cases.
-
apotheon
Signal kinda sold out.
-
apotheon
There are options that not only haven't sold out, but have better designs now, too. Both Briar and Session are decentralized and use better designs for privacy.
-
apotheon
MobileCoin has some kind of scammy premine thing going on, too.
-
apotheon
Moxie took a MobileCoin premine payout for his endorsement of MobileCoin and integration in Signal, then he handed the reins of Signal over to the WhatsApp founder dude.
-
apotheon
. . . who now runs Signal.
-
apotheon
I knew some shit was up even before MobileCoin, though, when Moxie actually defended WhatsApp's MITM-factory feature.
-
apotheon
s/feature/"feature"/
-
alex[m]1234
apotheon: I'm already having a difficult time bringing my friends from snap chat and WhatsApp to signal
-
apotheon
Yeah, it's a common and unrelenting problem: most people don't care enough about privacy.
-
apotheon
Signal's better than WhatsApp, but I wouldn't trust it for anything truly significant.
-
alex[m]1234
apotheon: yeah
-
apotheon
A lot can be gleaned from a little metadata and some server logs, even with E2EE.
-
alex[m]1234
But session is not truly decentralized your massages and files will stay in session's servers until the end user reads them
-
apotheon
They're decentralized servers, at least architecturally, which is the necessary first step in decentralization.
-
apotheon
Signal servers are *necessarily* centralized.
-
alex[m]1234
Session only hides your IP
-
apotheon
Session doesn't have shit for metadata. I'm not sure what you think it's exposing.
-
apotheon
Session is decentralized by design, in the same way that blockchains are decentralized.
-
apotheon
Briar is in some sense more fully decentralized than Session, though.
-
sech1
Signal's messages are kept on the server for indefinite time even if the chat is with timeout
-
apotheon
yep
-
sech1
If you have signal on phone and PC for example, you'll see old messages being loaded and erased even if they timed out on the phone already
-
alex[m]1234
apotheon: yes it is
-
apotheon
Signal has also had some issues with not releasing source code for things in a timely manner, sometimes being so slow about it that the source isn't out until long after it has been replaced with new code, which is . . . concerning, let's say.
-
sech1
so theoretically some modified Signal version could download old "deleted" messages, I think
-
apotheon
yep
-
Snipa
Sigh, why can't messengers just be secure and easy.
-
apotheon
not enough interest to fund the work AND keep the devs honest at the same time
-
Snipa
Good adoption would be nice too. :D
-
Snipa
Yeah, I know.
-
Snipa
Hard to make money off people's info if it's all encrypted all the time.;
-
apotheon
I'll choose keeping devs honest over convenience, as long as it actually WORKS, though.
-
Snipa
Yeah, the issue is people I want to chat with, won't.
-
apotheon
Get a better class of friends, I guess.
-
apotheon
(har)
-
alex[m]1234
apotheon: oh
-
apotheon
I've got the missus and several friends on Briar, and a few others on Session, though.
-
Snipa
Most of them don't need encryption.
-
apotheon
The only people I have on Signal as my main communications channel are ex-co-workers, I think.
-
apotheon
Everyone needs encryption, but yeah, most people don't think they do.
-
Snipa
Yeah, that's fair.
-
Snipa
Tbh, if OTR wasn't such a pain in the ass to integrate into things, it's still one of my favourite general options.
-
alex[m]1234
In my opinion Briar is not good for day to day chat, Briar was build to bypass censorship
-
apotheon
The main reason OTR is so difficult to integrate is probably its licensing.
-
apotheon
That's one of the detriments of using licenses that discourage forks.
-
apotheon
Being built to bypass censorship makes it great for day-to-day comms, in my opinion.
-
apotheon
It's actually what the missus and I use most, because (among other benefits) it's the single most reliable way to get text messages through that I've ever used.
-
apotheon
Briar even beats SMS for reliable message delivery, in my experience.
-
apotheon
Over the years before better stuff than Signal appeared, I had a LOT of issues with Signal losing messages altogether.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<apotheon> "Session doesn't have shit for..." <- Google fcm
-
apotheon
I'm pretty sure there has never been a completely lost Briar message.
-
apotheon
Status looks promising, too, but I don't know enough about it yet to be sure.
-
apotheon
ofrnxmr[m]: Is that a reference to Firebase Cloud Messaging?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<sech1> "Signal's messages are kept on..." <- Session stores "disappearing" messages for 14 days. I thought signal did in fact delete "deleted" messages
-
ofrnxmr[m]
<apotheon> "Signal has also had some..." <- So does session, shipping binaries with no source
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Deoendencies*
-
apotheon
Yeah, there's a two-week grace period before the decentralized message nodes delete messages.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
apotheon: Yea
-
apotheon
I think it deletes them after delivery, if they're picked up before the 14 days, but I might be mistaken.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Session doesnt
-
apotheon
re: source . . .
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Theyll even reappear under the right circumstances
-
apotheon
Do you mean they haven't published the source, or that the binaries don't come with source included?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
My github issue after they reappeared, and many others + session response that it is by design
-
ofrnxmr[m]
apotheon: I mean they ship dependencies that dont have source available
-
apotheon
Well . . . the fourteen day thing is a known feature allowing for message delivery without both endpoints having to be online at the same time, which is a far better approach than Signal.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
When we tried to fork it for fdroid, linsui found the version of some module they used for encryption or transport never had any source available
-
RavFX[m]
Session source look buried deep somewhere
-
RavFX[m]
when I Go in Download, I do have all platform, zero "source" option
-
ofrnxmr[m]
So linsuo used an open source alternative
-
apotheon
Oh, if you're talking about the notification stuff in the standard Google Play version, just use the FDroid version, which doesn't come with that crap.
-
RavFX[m]
Same for signal, have to find it yourself. If it's even there
-
apotheon
17:32 < ofrnxmr[m]> When we tried to fork it for fdroid, linsui found the version of some module they used for encryption or transport never had any source available
-
ofrnxmr[m]
apotheon: It stores the messages agfter they are read and "disappear"
-
apotheon
that's news to me
-
ofrnxmr[m]
the fdroid fork ks a cpmmunity fork
-
ofrnxmr[m]
By linsui
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not endorsed or recommended bt session
-
apotheon
huh
-
apotheon
Well, that works for me, anyway.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Session agreed to remove google shit, then backtracked and said they wont do it until there is a foss alternative as reliable as fcm
-
ofrnxmr[m]
yep
-
ofrnxmr[m]
The fdroid version uses foss dependencies
-
apotheon
I was pretty sure Session was delivering an FDroid version, from its own repo, though -- and that'd have to be a version that doesn't use the Play stuff, by definition.
-
apotheon
I'd have to go back and check.
-
apotheon
If it's as bad as you make it sound, it still beats Signal, but just reinforces my preference for Briar.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
apotheon
One thing about FDroid that annoys me is the way it uses the term "UPDATE" for the downloading process and the installing process, which makes it difficult at times to recognize what part download-and-install is happening at any given moment.
-
apotheon
ofrnxmr[m]: Is the Session fork you mentioned in the standard F-Droid repository or in a separate repository?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
ofrnxmr[m]
apotheon: Separate
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Nvnnvn
-
apotheon
It looks like the official F-Droid version has FCM disabled by default, but it can be enabled.
-
idkrn[m]
<apotheon> "One thing about FDroid that..." <- Use a better client
-
ofrnxmr[m]
I read session repo. Yes, its in fdroid.org
-
apotheon
idkrn[m]: What's a better "client" for F-Droid?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
apotheon: Its just cosmetic
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: Droidify or neostore
-
ofrnxmr[m]
auroradroid and neosomething
-
apotheon
interesting
-
apotheon
I didn't even know there were alternate clients.
-
apotheon
Can they be installed from F-Droid?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Theyre available in fdroid too :p lol
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: The official one is the worst. It uses an ancient target SDK and has bad design
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: Yeah but it would be better to use izzyondroid
-
apotheon
good to know
-
apotheon
thanks for the info
-
idkrn[m]
The other ones can auto update without privileged access
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Fdroid basic can do this ^
-
ofrnxmr[m]
On android 12+
-
ofrnxmr[m]
"F-droid basic alpha"
-
apotheon
I like how positive the Session guys are about an FCM-stripped Session fork.
-
apotheon
That's a pretty strong indicator they aren't doing something sketchy, I think.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not to me
-
ofrnxmr[m]
-
ofrnxmr[m]
They backpeddled
-
apotheon
The Briar guys are pretty positive about forks and reimplementations, too.
-
apotheon
Oh, did they? Shit.
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And its been > a year since linsui did it and they just continued on like nothing happened
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Told linsui to maje sure people dont think its official or supported
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And said they woukd eventually release an officual one
-
ofrnxmr[m]
started off sounding great. Quickly went left when they went from "yes, i agree, we should ship a free version asap" to "use our apk, it has no fcm (lie)" to "if you dont enable it, who cares" etcetc
-
Rosie0801[m]
I’ll help 11 people ,on how to make $40,000 in 3days from the polymath cryptocurrency. if interested send me a friend request or direct message by asking me (HOW) for more details on how to get started
-
ceetee[m]
<apotheon> "idkrn: What's a better "client..." <- droidify. neostore looks a bit nicer, but can be quite buggy and frustrating
-
ofrnxmr[m]
rosieeeeeee
-
ofrnxmr[m]
How much is that in xmr? Rosie0801:
-
ceetee[m]
GIVE ME MONERO Rosie0801:
-
ofrnxmr[m]
She must be too busy for me
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Ohhh, so she cums when you call.i see
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Yo rosie, speak. We were in the middle of a conversation
-
rbrunner
Curious people want to know why, out of all possible numbers, 11 people will make that money
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Theres only 4 of us though
-
ofrnxmr[m]
So do i get ... twice as much xmr
-
ofrnxmr[m]
apotheon @apotheon:libera.chat: this was my conclusion on session foss... (full message at <
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…6e26e21ea62cd90af331450b5609fd073dc>)
-
ofrnxmr[m]
at the same time, session twitter would be tweeting things like "remove google from your life - use session"
-
ofrnxmr[m]
And id be replying like "you rely on and ship google though"
-
apotheon
heh
-
apotheon
. . . so "it beats Signal" isn't by as big a margin as it could be.
-
plowsof11
does Rosie0801 need to be banned or
-
apotheon
If I could just get everyone in the world off of iPhones, a major motivation for using Session instead of Briar would be eliminated.
-
idkrn[m]
<apotheon> ". . . so "it beats Signal" isn't..." <- I'm not aware of anything that actually beats signal
-
apotheon
depends on what you want, I guess
-
apotheon
I want privacy and trustworthiness.
-
apotheon
I also like it when things don't lose messages.
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: Signal provides both
-
idkrn[m]
And you don't need to trust signal servers
-
apotheon
Session doesn't beat Signal for losing messages, but Briar does.
-
apotheon
How do you not trust Signal servers?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: A lot does
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: By design
-
apotheon
Do you run your own? Great. Now you can't communicate with most of the world.
-
idkrn[m]
Sealed sender is a big part of that
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: No necessary
-
idkrn[m]
* In reply to @apotheon:libera.chat
-
idkrn[m]
Do you run your own? Great. Now you can't communicate with most of the world.
-
idkrn[m]
Not necessary
-
apotheon
. . . so you see no dangers in metadata.
-
apotheon
good to know
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Centralized network of ips and phone numbers is easily beatable
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: ?
-
minth
signal links your account to your phone number, that's terrible opsec
-
apotheon
Social graphs aren't a thing, I guess.
-
idkrn[m]
minth: Not true
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: ?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: ^ this is the design you speak of?
-
minth
idkrn[m]: not true that it links them or not true that it's terrible?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Or you just believe that signal runs the same code on the server as what is published openly?
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Or you KNOW that they do
-
idkrn[m]
Signal designed things so that you don't need to trust their servers
-
ofrnxmr[m]
koolaid
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: The code on the servers is irrelevant
-
ofrnxmr[m]
What r u talking about? They designed things so you MUST trust them
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: You just don't understand how signal works
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Even your phone provider knows youre using signal
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Do you know what sealed sender is
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: No, you dont understand anything, really
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Basic stuff here
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Do i care? Yes. There is a big long blog post about it
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Sign up with a VoIP number. Also who cares if they know
-
ofrnxmr[m]
What does that have to do with SIGNAL SERVERS
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Coming from you lol
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: What are you supposedly trusting them with
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Yup
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Metadata
-
idkrn[m]
Everything is e2ee even metadata
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Rofl
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: This is a very convincing argument
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Yeah,signal doesnt know times or routes 🤡
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Phone numbers are cosmetic 🤡
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: You can use a VoIP number…
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Signal has nooooonidea how much you use it or who you talk to 🤡
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: They don't know who you talk to if you use sealed sender
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Why? I thought signal was trustless
-
idkrn[m]
Sealed sender makes it extremely difficult to find out anything
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Cause you complained about needing it
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Thats for sender recipient
-
ofrnxmr[m]
Not for servers smh
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: If its trustless, i can use my work phone number with np
-
ofrnxmr[m]
But i cant, now can i?
-
idkrn[m]
What are you worried about the servers doing
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Go ahead
-
apotheon
18:15 < idkrn[m]> And you don't need to trust signal servers
-
apotheon
18:20 < idkrn[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Sign up with a VoIP number. Also who cares if they know
-
apotheon
explains a lot
-
ofrnxmr[m]
ill upload my contact list while im at it 🤡
-
apotheon
"Who cares about opsec? I only care about encryption."
-
apotheon
Encryption isn't a silver bullet.
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: About what
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: What are you talking about
-
ofrnxmr[m]
about your lack of 🧠
-
apotheon
18:21 < idkrn[m]> Everything is e2ee even metadata
-
apotheon
your telephone number is metadata
-
idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Your not really in a position to claim that
-
apotheon
information about who you're contacting is metadata
-
apotheon
rate of messaging is metadata
-
ofrnxmr[m]
👀 plowsof dm'd me and said "go tf to off topic. Ill kick you too"
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: Sealed sender makes that almost impossible to find out
-
idkrn[m]
apotheon: Fair, but what can they actually do with that
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: You dont know what yas is talking about
-
ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Off topic
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ofrnxmr[m]
We watched a movie in classlast week about thus
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: You keep saying that and nothing this
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plowsof11
i think the best thing to do is to direct ALL of these complaints toward Molly. (after the android wallet sdk ccs is merged and hopefully funded) 🙏 are you ready for this energy valldrac
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apotheon
Are we in danger of being kicked if we don't change the subject?
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idkrn[m]
* In reply to @ofrnxmr:monero.social
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idkrn[m]
You dont know what yas is talking about
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idkrn[m]
You keep saying that and nothing interesting
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apotheon
18:27 < idkrn[m]> apotheon: Fair, but what can they actually do with that
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plowsof11
is the topic just "encryption" vs "metadata used to build social circle / time / frequency of messages"?
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apotheon
build social graphs, leading to investigation of other aspects of your life using targeted tools
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apotheon
opsec matters for communication
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ofrnxmr[m]
Fine, fuck yall
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ofrnxmr[m]
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ofrnxmr[m]
skip to 5:35
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apotheon
economic activity is communication, including Monero
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idkrn[m]
plowsof11: Molly does not deserver complaints 😤
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idkrn[m]
* In reply to @plowsof:matrix.org
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idkrn[m]
i think the best thing to do is to direct ALL of these complaints toward Molly. (after the android wallet sdk ccs is merged and hopefully funded) 🙏 are you ready for this energy valldrac
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idkrn[m]
Molly does not deserve complaints 😤
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ofrnxmr[m]
What does it "deserve"?
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idkrn[m]
apotheon: There is no social graph to be built when they only know how many messages you send
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ofrnxmr[m]
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ofrnxmr[m]
5:35 please
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Praise and money
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ofrnxmr[m]
Watch slowly and stop embarassing yourself in public
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ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Lmfao
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apotheon
idkrn[m]: You ignored the part about who's on the other side of the communications -- and yes, the number of messages sent does contribute to social graph analysis.
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ofrnxmr[m]
Praise for what?
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apotheon
It shows strength of connections (or purports to show that, at least).
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ofrnxmr[m]
Please tell me what molly has accomplished in 2 yrs worthy of the praise and money aboce what is already allocated
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ofrnxmr[m]
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idkrn[m]
apotheon: Who's on the other side of is protected by sealed sender
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ofrnxmr[m]
l o l
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: Not in a place where I can do that
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ofrnxmr[m]
Go reread sealed sender. Even if it it, IT HIDES NOTHIBG
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: This is too technical for me to understand
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ofrnxmr[m]
Signal knows what ips are receiving messages, replying
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ofrnxmr[m]
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: That's its purpose
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ofrnxmr[m]
Video form ya damn hippo
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ofrnxmr[m]
idkrn[m]: Says you and nobody else
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: What
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ofrnxmr[m]
Not even signal
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ofrnxmr[m]
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: What does signal claim
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ofrnxmr[m]
Read what sealed sender is and does
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apotheon
Sealed Sender is designed to reduce data retention, not to prevent data collection.
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plowsof11
im going to read this
cs-people.bu.edu/kaptchuk/publications/ndss21.pdf in #monero-offtopic:monero.social
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ofrnxmr[m]
Only a jackrabbit would think it obfuscates data flows from 1 endpoint to another
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apotheon
While it theoretically prevents building a social graph directly, anyone with access to the system can use it to collect data elsewhere to build a social graph.
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idkrn[m]
ofrnxmr[m]: "shouldn’t need to know who the sender is."
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idkrn[m]
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ofrnxmr[m]
#monero-offtopic
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ofrnxmr[m]
Apotheon you can join on irc too
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apotheon
You don't even need much technical background to get that from the sealed sender "technology preview" blog post.
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idkrn[m]
apotheon: Collect what data? From where
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apotheon
I'm on IRC.
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apotheon
What do you mean?
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apotheon
oh, I see what you mean
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ofrnxmr[m]
#Monero-offtopic is bridged to irc
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apotheon
not that I need more channels
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apotheon
Of course, the general stuff about social graphs and metadata are relevant to Monero, too. Opsec matters for all communications, including economic transactions.
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apotheon
The particulars of sealed sender aren't Monero-relevant, though.
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ofrnxmr[m]
...
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ofrnxmr[m]
Wrong room apo :)
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ofrnxmr[m]
Weve moved chat to where we can speak without restraint and go as far down rabbit holes as necessary
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apotheon
. . . so opsec is off-topic for Monero now?
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apotheon
weird
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ofrnxmr[m]
signal has absofuckinumgluteky nothing to do with monero
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apotheon
18:39 < apotheon> Of course, the general stuff about social graphs and metadata are relevant to Monero, too. Opsec matters for all communications, including economic transactions.
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apotheon
18:39 < apotheon> The particulars of sealed sender aren't Monero-relevant, though.
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ofrnxmr[m]
The other room is monero-offtopic, not random-offtopic
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apotheon
ohhhhhkay then
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ofrnxmr[m]
Like research lounge instead of lab
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ofrnxmr[m]
it gets to be pretty active too, and some good convos there
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ofrnxmr[m]
Such as thus exact chat was has with the past week
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ofrnxmr[m]
Within*
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ofrnxmr[m]
Regarding signal, metadata, and social graphs specifically
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chesterfield[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "signal has absofuckinumgluteky..." <- It does use a fork of Monero 😊
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valldrac[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]> "Regarding signal, metadata..." <- So, what's the room to discuss this? I'll join in 😁
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apotheon
As always, in my experience, shifting channels killed the conversation, but in this case it was probably a mercy killing.
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valldrac[m]
No problem. Next time. This is a recurring discussion
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plowsof11
apotheon you didnt switch channels , the conversation is happening on our computer screens which remains in the same place
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apotheon
Really . . . ? I'm in monero-offtopic and I see nothing but a link to a video.
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apotheon
oh, and a link to a usenix conference thing
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apotheon
. . . and the video was linked here first, so it's not exactly a continuation.
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plowsof11
we're batting for the same team, the devils advocate has left - so we can just agree with each other or let the conversation die
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ofrnxmr[m]
sgp: can you fix history in off topic
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sgp[m]
what do I need to do there
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ofrnxmr[m]
Its set to since invited, the rest are.."since the point of selcting this option"
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sgp[m]
Is seeing the history important? I wouldn't think so for an offtopic channel?
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ofrnxmr[m]
We have important convos there all the time
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sgp[m]
in offtopic?
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ofrnxmr[m]
just not necessarily about "monero"
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ofrnxmr[m]
Pools is the cesspool
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ofrnxmr[m]
Offtopic is just not monero specific
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chch3003[m]
Hmm what is the backup plan if there is a global internet outage? Asking for a friend.
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Alex|LocalMonero
chch3003[m]: For broadcasting xmr txs? Short-wave radio.
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Alex|LocalMonero
Bounce them off the moon for extra swag.
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chch3003[m]
And synching nodes
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DanIsnotthemanBr
Send plowsof
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hyc
Althea network is worth looking into, they seem to be doing real usable infrastructure as opposed to Helium's useless toys
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hyc
but yes, we can do packet radio too if needed
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hyc
probably we should get more HAM radio folks into Monero
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hyc
a lot of them are already experts at off-grid living, run solar+battery operated radio relays, etc
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hyc
but I like the notion of Althea's community owned 4G networks. LTE mesh networking, pretty much ideal.
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hyc
still would want some satellite assistance, for intercontinental comms
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RavFX[m]
But you need KYC for HAM, except if you ignore the law of course.
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DanIsnotthemanBr
Isnt it licensed?
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RavFX[m]
(You have to pass tests then you get assigned a callsign (linked to you)
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RavFX[m]
so yes, it's KYC/licensed
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hyc
yes that's true
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hyc
and if you ignore the law and operate an unlicensed transmitter powerful enough to have a useful range, you'll have unwelcome visitors come to shut you down
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RavFX[m]
hyc: yep. exactly :/
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hyc
there are some unlicensed radio bands still, for short range comms (1 mile or so? something like that)
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hyc
walky talkies, FRS radios, etc use them
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RavFX[m]
Yeah, more than a mile.
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RavFX[m]
Using some frequencies I don't remember
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RavFX[m]
Like these doomsday communicators I saw a while ago (forgot links)
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RavFX[m]
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hyc
you can also get pretty decent range with wifi if using narrow beam point-to-point antennas
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hyc
oh, that uses LoRaWAN
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hyc
low energy, low bandwidth. good for SMSs I guess.
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hyc
we funded these guys, but their Lorawan project went nowhere
twitter.com/Locha_io
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hyc
maybe they exit scammed, I don't recall the details
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hyc
that armachat looks like a nice device to have anyway, for dire emergencies
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hyc
but it won't keep the monero network running
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RavFX[m]
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RavFX[m]
Non, for Monero, you need way better (can't even work on HAM even if you have a license) as the allocated frequency are quite narrow, you might be able to use a 9600 bauds modem legaly.
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hyc
yeah. so LTE mesh or point-to-point 802.11 wifi
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hyc
maybe Elon's Starlink will still work ;)
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hyc
or we send microSD cards around, strapped to pigeons' legs
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chch3003[m]
Interesting, I bookmarked the links :)
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chch3003[m]
I am afarid we can't sync nodes from radio tho. Hopefully we have Starlink or renting a satellite like BlockStream is doing
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RavFX[m]
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chch3003[m]
@hyc Was it this guy working on Locha
twitter.com/willcl_ark ?
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RavFX[m]
That kind of tech could work.
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RavFX[m]
But we would need designated nodes. to prevent people using all the bandwidth syncing
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hyc
chch3003[m]: it was Randy Brito, but I dunno who else worked with him
twitter.com/randybrito/status/1219236455823921153
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DanIsnotthemanBr
Anyone notice wavweb constantly connects and leaves?
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idkrn[m]
Yes
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ofrnxmr[m]
Kick
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ofrnxmr[m]
Em