<r​owinian> Hello friends! Could somebody spare me $1? 😃 49YJd62RtSQUR7jUzPnqBNP112mnHXYw9A5dGadkr9gKCeDHiLKrfXHUezM6NgSsxe4Eqc18oaXDxZLN5ygAbgBPDXzNJZh

<c​h_nick7> If you send me triple

<r​owinian> Deal!

<r​owinian> You first... trust trade!!

<r​owinian> 🤞 no tackesies backsies

<c​h_nick7> Go fuck yourself

<r​owinian> Nigga shut the fuck up you autistic little rodent

<r​owinian> Go back to ur sewer

<c​h_nick7> Have fun yapping about money, poor guy

what is the current state of monero anonymity and that whole chainanalysis thing?

chainalysis and ciphertrace that is

what i understand is that it can only trace transactiosn with help from 3rd parties like exchanges, so it shouldn't be possible with a local wallet?

Yes

Exchanges have your monero and track what user (that is registrered with KYC things usually) sends how much to who. It is impossible for them otherwise

You send monero to another on an exchange and there is probably not a transaction. They keep track of that using their own software and not blockchain afaik

zyxer: so using a full node and not light wallet, and not letting a 3rd party do the transactions, provides privacy?

That provides the most yes. But I am not sure how much benefit running your own node gives you. Perhaps that is just marginal. Most important thing is to not let anyone else have your keys and not use a proprietary wallet.

Although some open source ones can also do shenanigans

that's only if they get backdoored or are malicious

Yes

But also, they just need to talk to a server and poof, your IP is associated with the crypto

yeah i assume that using tor or a vpn would be necessary to hide involvement with xmr

The proprietary wallets can send metadata to the wallet provider/devs

Installed software get access to more identifiable info than just your IP. Keep that in mind.

i would never use a proprietary wallet. i'm very familiar with infosec and networking security/privacy, but cryptocurrency is new to me

Ok, good.

if i know the threat model and cryptographic guarantees then i can make use of that without having to start from scratch with something as naive as "is xmr safe???"

Then yes self hosted node with separate hardware for wallet. That is what I do.

Or, I am currently in process of setting it up. Migrating from... not the best practices.

But that is mostly security and not privacy reasons

i don't need a separate wallet because i will never be having a large amount of money stored at any given time, and malicious software running on the same computer is outside of the threat model

Ok, makes sense

let's say i buy btc with a credit card -> not anonymous at all. use some crappy kyc exchange to turn btc to xmr. have them send xmr to a local wallet, then spend that xmr. question is if the recipient of that xmr or a 3rd party looking at the blockchain could distinguish that from any other trnsaction

No

what if that xmr is sent back to the same exchange from another account, to buy "clean" btc? of course it would be possible to correlate things like the amount of money set, ip used or browser fingerprinting, or other identifiers but assuming that's out of scope

Monero is entirely fungible. No monero looks or can be distinguished from another

The sender is anonymous

The reciever is anonymous

And the amount is encrypted

assuming post-2017 ring signature changes right?

That is why syncing monero wallet takes a lot longer time than most other cryptos.

I'm not sure.

i know that there are some side-channel attacks

If I am not mistaken the changes were made to be not only secure but overkill for the purpose

something about confirming an address if the attacker can tell whether or not it went through by you telling them

The main risk that I know of (I am not a dev or anything like that) is if many many many nodes get compromised and then you have to be very unlucky to be in a ring-signature where you are the only genious actor.

genious actor?

Sorry, I used wrong word

Opposite of disingenuous

I am tired

If all the fake signatures tell eachother they are fake then by process of elimination they can know it was you who made the transaction. They can't tell who the reciever is or the amount anyway, only the sender

that would require very bad luck or a large number of compromised nodes

But the way it makes ring signatures you have to compromise an insane amount of nodes, more than 50%

Yes

i'm very familiar with the research around tor's anonymity and other low-latency tcp/ip networks, anonymity with monero is very different, different threat model, different guarantees

all the resarch i am used to for it does not apply to monero which is why my question may have been so basic

aaabbb: They talk about the potential issues.

spotify blocks me

is it on yt?

It is allegedly here as well but I can't load the site

Yes

aaabbb: There is youtube

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Hi all . Please tell me what is the meaning of NO KYC on the Localmonero platform? Is this a fake concept or does it work?

<t​om:hackliberty.org> I'll give you an example.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> The user wants to buy xmr through this platform, registration without name, phone, email -Ok (but with java)

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Localmonero knows all the details (bank account, last name, first name, residential address, etc.) of the seller who is registered on this platform.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Next, the user selects the type of purchase through a filter, for example paypal, the seller gives his paypall account so that the user transfers money to a paypal account which is also known to Localmonero??

<t​om:hackliberty.org> You will say hey, use cache or mail)) But this is also anonymous, since when sending money via mail you will be asked to provide an ID.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> And when you meet with the seller to give him cash and get it, he may not be who he says he is.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Or does this mean a situation where Localmonero or someone else knows that the user and the seller have made a sale; further history with xmr is not known, since a mixer can be used to hide traces of the purchase.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> It is also unknown where Localmonero sends statistics, perhaps these are certain unfriendly services

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> with java? afaik, localmonero offers its website on an onion URL and with nojs options.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Yes, you’re right, there are both in tor and i2p, but the main site is with java. But my question was different✌️

you have to give your real name to use localmonero?

<o​mnero376:matrix.org> To me "no kyc" generally just means you dont have to go through the process of providing documents and selfies etc to prove your identity. Of course beyond that it's going to be shades of grey with respect to how anonymous/private you are. With localmonero you do have the option of manually encrypting the chat with PGP, but it is inconvenient and few people will be willing to do i<clipped message>

<o​mnero376:matrix.org> t. Another p2p site called localcryptos (now closed down, and never used monero) used to do end-to-end encryption for the trade chats and it worked well. I wish localmonero would do that, but i think their argument against it is that it would require javascript

<o​mnero376:matrix.org> no

Wat? Localmonero has issues with scammers

any platform that deals with the transfer of money will have a problem with such

cashapp and paypal certainly do

Yes that is true, but tracking down paypal user is easier

Or well, they do have escrow

Nvm, I take it back.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> where exactly?

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Hello . Thanks for your opinion. As for PGP, I think that I2P is better if I need this kind of communication.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Hello.You write that the user does not need to go through the identification procedure, formally yes, but in reality the user gives away his data as I wrote in the example indirectly.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Clarification on your answer. Naturally, I did not write the name anywhere since it is not required.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> But I’m talking about something else: NO KYC is more for advertising; in reality, the platform covers everything about sellers, how many there are, who they are, where they are located. And the user is forced to give his data to this platform indirectly, as I wrote in the example.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> As for scammers, I assure you that in real life there are 1 million times more of them.

<e​rembax:matrix.org> Does Monerujo still support swapping monero to another coin?

<e​rembax:matrix.org> I hear sideshift.ai dropped monero support.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> Hello . Here in matrix there is their channel, ask there.

<t​om:hackliberty.org> matrix.to/#/#monerujo:monero.social

Thanks tom

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> serai will literally save our wallets

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> If and when it comes

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it will come

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> it will come in a reasonable amount of time

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Everything monero repeated comes with ‘reasonable’ time 😅 Soon™

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Everything monero related comes with ‘reasonable’ time 😅 Soon™

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/sNyLdiQsGnmYZKLCMQprMiMq

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Lws seraphis fmcp Soon™

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Haveno

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Anything else coming ?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> uh

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> basicswapdex

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its live but not the version where you can have lightclients

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> That’s supposed to be already out

<f​orbidden_island:ihazurinter.net> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…rinter.net/XdFaHgISDCleWPkIwAIaDmaX

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> shrigma-off-topic

@seen reasonable amount of time

<9​_11_01> so if send to the same address twice will it be separate utxo's or will it be 1 utxo

It will be two utxo, one for each transfer

<9​_11_01> what if someone just spams 1 cent transactions to one of your monero addresses, will that cause any problems

non, you will just get a bunch of 1 cent output. You will be able to spend them if you which, or send them to yourself to concanate them into one single output or "freeze" them so then never get spent

<9​_11_01> it can still be an issue, will the seraphis update kinda solve this

<9​_11_01> nah idk

Na, seraphis won't prevent people to send you ton of 1 cent TX.

<9​_11_01> nah im talking about utxo's

<9​_11_01> not that

<9​_11_01> will it do utxo's differently

<e​rembax:matrix.org> Wallets should implement a warning against this type of dust attack.

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> Which of the 3 upcoming or already released Dex's (haveno, serai, basicswapdex) will be the one with the biggest opportunity to replace conventional centralized swapping services like side shift/flixedfloat etc?

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> It would need to have timelocked swaps where a swap is terminated and refunded after time limit is overgone. Would also need less than 10 confs for swap to happen because no one who wants to do a ltc (or other) payment wants to wait for 10 xmr confirmations.

<u​nkn8wn69:matrix.org> I know haveno probably out the window already but does serai/basicswap be possible for that? We need new ways other than trocador or others that use centralized platforms. We need EVERYONE to be able to get their liquidity in the market.

<j​oiboi.crypto:matrix.org> Where's ofrn