<o​pen.devil:matrix.org> Guys what do you think of other anonymous/privacy-respecting cryptocurrencies?

such as?

there aren't any other anonymous cryptocurrencies ...

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> wow is as anonymous as monero

hmm, maybe so. but it has a weakened PoW algo.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> [GRIN](grin.mw) is interesting but i wouldn't use it if i needed strong privacy guarantees at this time. its output linkability at low transaction volumes is a work in progress, though at higher volumes it might not be an issue

<y​asabi:matrix.org> at low volumes it is easy to see what output is spent to what input, however since there are no addresses or amounts written onchain, only EC points, that's not as damning as with bitcoin based chains. at high volumes its native coinjoin block format would make that linkability hueristics arguably even less useful

<y​asabi:matrix.org> at low volumes it is easy to see what output is spent to what input, however since there are no addresses or amounts written onchain, only EC points, that's not as damning as with bitcoin based chains. at high volumes its native coinjoin block format would make those linkability hueristics arguably even less useful

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> grin ? ever heard of logging nodes ?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> what makes GRIN interesting is it offers substantially better privacy and scalability than Bitcoin, while it's codebase is about 10% the size

<y​asabi:matrix.org> yes, it's a known issue since the protocol design, and it's not a new retort

<y​asabi:matrix.org> hence why i said i wouldn't use it if i needed strong privacy now

so. not anonymous, not really "respecting| privacy.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> privacy is one priority for GRIN, alongside scability and simplicity

there's plenty of garbage out there that paid lip service to privacy

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i think comparing a unique codebase that achieves the same security model in 1/10 the code size, while still being more private than bitcoin, to garbage is a bit unfair

if you prefer other coins you can just send all your monero to me. ive never had any

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> 1/10th code doesnt mean they should compromise on privacy lol

too bad. you yourself just admitted you wouldn't use it if you actually needed privacy

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i said it's interesting, not that it's better than monero

it's not useful in any situation where you actually need digital cash. therefore it's not interesting.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> perhaps we have different interests

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> grin is was a good experiment

the question was about "anonymous and privacy-respecting"

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> grin is/was a good experiment

<y​asabi:matrix.org> privacy isn't binary, it's a spectrum

it doesn't answer the requuest.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> perfect is the enemy of good

"privacy is a spectrum" is a cop-out. yes, there are stronger and weaker crypto mechanisms. Like nobody uses 56-bit DES any more.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> jesus man, take your shitcoin with you and go away

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> so btc coinjoins are also good ?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> GRIN is a good project even if it's not perfect privacy. if they resolve their issue without sacrificing their other strengths it'll be a real privacy coin competitor

<y​asabi:matrix.org> if you can't get XMR, then yes BTC coinjoins are better than nothing

but there is no reason to use known-bad approaches when known-good ones are available.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> yall are being absolutists

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> no, it's not, nobody knows about it because its tech is probably the worst around

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> its not a competitor its a experiment

<y​asabi:matrix.org> hate to break it to you but all of crypto is an experiment

unbelievable that people in the official monero irc are monero absolutists

weird huh

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> why you cant get XMR ? atomic swaps exist

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Everything that mankind has created is an experiment if you think about it that way

<y​asabi:matrix.org> wow slippery slope much

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> 😉

grin starts from the get-go saying "oh yeah, we have this gaping wide privacy hole in our design"

<y​asabi:matrix.org> how do you even use words with so much uncertainty about everything created

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I'm joking, I wasn't serious

<y​asabi:matrix.org> they have more than one proposed solution but won't mandate any that break their other core values

<y​asabi:matrix.org> all things are processes

it's like saying "here's our cool new design, and by the way we use 32bit RC4 encryption"

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> but we wont fix it for years/decades till inflation goes low 🤣

<y​asabi:matrix.org> hyc i respect the hell out of you but i feel that's disingenuous

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Grin's technology is based on Harry Potter books, literally. What a joke.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I don't think that matters

<y​asabi:matrix.org> if you cant tell the difference between branding and protocol design then you should hit da books kid

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The virgin Grin: based on Harry Potter books.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The chad Monero: based on a language that is going to conquer the world by surprise - Esperanto.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Get lost loser!

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Lol, the stupidity

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> so grin was all about branding and taking donations ?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> If branding is what you are looking for... not sure why you are here

<y​asabi:matrix.org> what are you talking about lol

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…iberty.org/YBtdPiUrugiVQlqMOxmPxDed

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> HarrypotterCoin

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> how is grin preserving privacy in its current form ?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Mimblewimble does have some credibility behind it afaik, but I don't know too much about it

<y​asabi:matrix.org> privacy is a spectrum, not a bit. designing a protocol without addresses, and using confidential transactions to hide amounts, is more private than literally 99% of the garbage in this space

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> MW is good for sidechains, but even that needs improvements like beam has done. But its a scamy ico coin.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Yeah, that is just a matter of fact

<y​asabi:matrix.org> BEAM improved it by tacking on lelantus, and thus lost MW cutthrough capabilities, meaning its no longer scalable

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Mimblewimble is a protocol, no? Not a coin?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> GRIN's team is balancing priorities

no addresses sounds amazing for privacy. also no computers, no electricity, no photons

<y​asabi:matrix.org> MW is a protocol, and MWCoin is a coin that forked GRIN and added a hardcap and "veteran awards"

oh, so that's what they mean by virtual currency. there's nothing real there

<y​asabi:matrix.org> ie its a scam

<y​asabi:matrix.org> its just the most well known one

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Thanks for clarifying

<y​asabi:matrix.org> of course!

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> are you from Grin team ?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> nope

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i just hold a lil, albeit the smallest bag i have

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> a bag holder ?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> not in comparison to my monero lol

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> i am sure you hold more Grins than XMR

how much monero do you have? and whats your address so i can donate to you?

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I think there was a talk about MW at MoneroKon

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> so, tell me, yasabi , now that we know that you're from Grin's dev team, tell us if your coin is listed somewhere, can I buy it with BTC right no?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> technically true, tho i was speaking of dollar value input

<y​asabi:matrix.org> GRIN's about three cents so

the language being tossed around about "scalability is a priority" tells all you need to know, the designers are clowns.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> have you looked at Cuckoo Cycle hyc?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> So yes, a bigger bag

it's like small startup companies putting all their infratructure on Kubernetes because "it scales"

even though they have nowhere near the workloads yet that would demand anything like a scaling solution

<y​asabi:matrix.org> as a proof-of-work designer i'd be shocked if you didn't think it was noteworthy

and real designers understand that *efficiency* is what matters. scalability i a side-effect of that

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> hyc kubernetes is the most popular flavor of cancer around, you shouldn't trash talk it like that

cuckoo cycle is junk. already ASIC'd

<y​asabi:matrix.org> it was designed for ASICs so i don't see how that's a counterargument

yasabi we looked at it in depth back in 2017 or 2018

i put all my 40 line bash scripts onto kubernetes clusters

<y​asabi:matrix.org> that doesn't make it not noteworthy

<y​asabi:matrix.org> 42 lines of code for an implementation, a single PoW that can scale up in memory many factors without any changes

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> WHAT? You either got it, or you don't. That sounds pretty binary to me. There's no such thing as "good enough privacy". Spectrum 🤣

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> they love their ASICs and i dont mind that either, someone keeping their price up from collapsing to zero.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> thats unique in the space

for our purposes, it is not noteworthy

<y​asabi:matrix.org> yeah i wouldn't want it in monero either

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I guess it depends on how you're using the word

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i prefer ASIC resistance

<y​asabi:matrix.org> but even fluffy was willing to push SHA-3 if RandomX didn't work out

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> i woudnt mind asics, if they were readily available

fluffy was hedging his bets because nobody had a provablly ASIC-resistant design at that time

<y​asabi:matrix.org> and Cuckoo is designed long-term in the hope of commodity ASICs - tho i am skeptical that will work out

you cant make a readily available asic that also solves problems hard enough to matter for PoW

<y​asabi:matrix.org> you can buy a GRIN ASIC on amazon tho

governments can always "regulate" these asics

<y​asabi:matrix.org> it's so smallcap it hasn't been hijacked by Wu and his cabal

but who will want to buy one? The only way mining gets ubiquitous is if it works on things people already on. not if they have to go out and buy some new gadget.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> where can I buy your coin, yasabi ?

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> as if you know what % of hashrate come from a single warehouse

<y​asabi:matrix.org> yasabicoin will be launching soon on BSC, will let ya know

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> as if he knew what the word "cabal" means

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> tradeogre and gate

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> ok, checking it out

<y​asabi:matrix.org> oh you meant GRIN

<y​asabi:matrix.org> not my coin, but i don't recommend buying for speculation

<y​asabi:matrix.org> its linearly disinflationary and the rate of emission is still high for another few years

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…iberty.org/hylilWInzQECnddQPUYEkiCq

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i own a bit cuz i like the project and played with it, but it will not make me any dollars anytime soon

<y​asabi:matrix.org> another one of its ethos that it shares with XMR

<y​asabi:matrix.org> price talk is discouraged

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> how many other tradeogre listed coins do you own

<y​asabi:matrix.org> y u making shit about me bruh

all that matters for XMR is taht you can actually conduct commerce with it. speculation is irrelevant to the goal.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i agree hyc

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> just want to know, what other coins to buy for moon 🤣

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i don't buy for moons

<y​asabi:matrix.org> moonbois are cancer

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> where do you use Grin ?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> with other people who like GRIN

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i've donated with it, commissioned art with it, and written scripts that interface with it

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> nice a circular economy, xmr needs it

<y​asabi:matrix.org> yeah no shit

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…iberty.org/LazHDBRCFJdkNKTCmlaKhKYz

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> LIES, no grin coin

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> atleast GriN got that right :)

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> coinmarketcap.com/currencies/grin

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> This is not an exchange. Cringe.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> just gonna leave this here for now: youtube.com/watch?v=6e_OZvfwP3Y

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> pin it

<y​asabi:matrix.org> maximalism of any kind hurts the entire cryptocurrency experiment

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Yes, of course

<y​asabi:matrix.org> we're fighting a millennia of legacy finance

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> 'I think elaryan is a 'troll' or something

<y​asabi:matrix.org> shitting on eachother isn't gonna get us anywhere in that fight

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> You are thinking wrong.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> monero is by far and without question the best solution for the moment, and most likely will be for some time, esp when FCMP drop

<y​asabi:matrix.org> but there's no guarantee it is the best solution forever, and refusing to admit that gives power back to those who captured our entire society and extort us to death from their position

<y​asabi:matrix.org> it is good to be critical, but refusing to entertain alternatives is for sure a death sentence

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> All I'm saying is your coin is dead.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…iberty.org/IPrBPzjkWFfuDsdldWyBLsnV

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> it's fine

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Price in fiat doesn't matter too much

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> don't worry about xmr

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> just go buy bonk

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> doge

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I don't know if it is dead or not though

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> it does tho

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> seems the problem is you are not rich

<y​asabi:matrix.org> nearly all maximalism is ppl who are overleveraged

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Good for you.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Sure, in regards to evaluating certain aspects of its popularity depending on how the coin is obtained

<y​asabi:matrix.org> don't spend money on crypto that you need and you'll keep rational

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> On exchanges that will have a market cap, the price will play a factor

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> But XMR price for example, is manipulated quite hard. I would assume the same for grin, but not sure

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> No, if it is inflationary or scammy in other ways, low price may be a symptom of that.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Also "Harry Potter" 😖 cringe

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Sure, it really depends on how much info you get from the coin

<y​asabi:matrix.org> i also dislike harry potter

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Total supply, block reward, and things like that

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> pepe is for you

<y​asabi:matrix.org> fwiw they ditched a lot of the HP shit a few years ago when JKR started on her shit

<y​asabi:matrix.org> but the names are kinda in stone already so

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Pepe has a frog, Doge has a cool doggo, Monero has Monerchan... Grin has harry potter 😖

<y​asabi:matrix.org> hindsight is a bitch lol

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> You mean when she became based?

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> seems like grin is being pump/dump shit

i believe it was when she said boys have a penis, girls have a vagina

you cant say such things in the modern era

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> having 1 mil $ volume daily it just spikes up and down

<d​ezinfik:matrix.org> i won't but your shit

<y​asabi:matrix.org> oh gosh

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> CAN'T SAY THAT

<y​asabi:matrix.org> gnight all

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> That went sideways

why do woke leftists always say woke leftist things in a way that assumes everyone else theyre talking to is a woke leftist, and then act shocked when thats not the case

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> snex because Obama won

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> and Klaus Schwab walking on da beach dressed as a bride

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> btw Big Mike 2024 ✌️🍆

at least you know how to get them to stop talking about their shitcoin

<p​ndxmr:matrix.org> 1 coin/sec forever works too

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Depends on block time, sure

<h​ailey2000:matrix.org> Hi,I withdrew from binance to monero wallet but I never received it.Binance customer service said it has been withdrawn to the address I filled but I really didn't receive it, can anyone tell me who I should contact. Can anyone tell me who I should contact. thanks.

<h​ailey2000:matrix.org> 11a1bd6a22c8d383c39e6e4ca6f1fb15921987cf18e395855bffa101147c3d0c

tell them to provide the tx proof

this tx is real

<h​ailey2000:matrix.org> Yes

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> xmrchain.net/search?value=11a1bd6a2…b15921987cf18e395855bffa101147c3d0c

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> If you go to the "Decode outputs" section, you can input the same wallet address you gave Binance, plus your *private view key*, and it will show you if any of the tx outputs belong to you

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> NOTE: this will send your private view key to the xmrchain server

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> Otherwise, if you're using the Monero Gui wallet software, there should be a function that allows you to input your txid and rescan it for incoming Monero

<e​ndor00:matrix.org> (This is the best option)

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So, after this exercise, you'd probably want to migrate to a fresh wallet, just in case.

<I​nako> cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/6204…af74b73c48b2f4573b08c041b109ccd7fe&

<I​nako> What does this mean?

it means you just gave us all your credit card number. thx

<b​asses:matrix.org> fill the other fields and send the pic 👍️

<y​asabi:matrix.org> Inako what's your pornstar name? it's a combination of your last and name your CC expiry date

<y​asabi:matrix.org> Inako what's your pornstar name? it's a combination of your last name and your CC expiry date

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Hey guys, I have a question: Let's say I have a wallet that is 1 year old and I sent 10 transactions worth 1xmr each to it. If I now send all 10 XMR back to myself today, can I set the restore height of my wallet to today and not have issues?

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Sorry, I sent the 10 1xmr transactions to the wallet 1 year ago*

<y​asabi:matrix.org> sure, if you don't need to keep the record of that in your most recent wallet history

<y​asabi:matrix.org> merging all transactions at once though is bad for your privacy and your wallet will warn you as such

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Okay sweet, that's what I thought!

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Would it be better to do it in batches then?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> yes, in random temporal intervals

<j​ohnkmus:matrix.org> Thank you 🙏

<y​asabi:matrix.org> of course!

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> Hey, I saw on the keystone hardware wallet reddit (Most secure hardware wallet apparently) That they have tried to reach out to monero GUI and other wallets so they can work on monero integration. Has there been any answer from the monero side of things?

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> lr.vern.cc/r/KeystoneWallet/comments/164ym15/monero_support

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> lr.vern.cc/r/KeystoneWallet/comment…/13uj9ja/monero_wallets_gui_and_cli

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> they said in that last link that they are in talks with moneroujo team thats in may 29 2023

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> 1 year ago

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> ledger and trezor are the only ones supporting monero right now

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> would be cool to have keystone wallet too especially since they expressed they are trying to get it done

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> note the links above are reddit, but from a privacy viewer because reddit super annoying with requiring login just to see their website if you use vpn

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Did they send email to hardware⊙go?

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> they did write somehwere on their reddit that they emailed the monero gui team but never mentionned which email

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> Soooo is there anyone here that can help with this?

<n​orvegan:nope.chat> Are there any websites out there for buying and selling property, but you know, for crypto people, or more specifically, monero people? Is that even possible, to circumvent banks and governments in this exchange? I imagine that it would have to be a contract with a symbolic sum, but that the _actual_ transaction happens away from prying eyes. I'd love to know more about this.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Goatskey: Ask them to ask in #monero-dev:monero.social

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Or #monero-gui:monero.social

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> ill contact their customer support team hopefully they can escalate it and all

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> or can someone type it on their reddit? I dont have a reddit account

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Well, you won't find that in Australia and Europe, afaik, they made it a crime to buy land or even cars outside of the banking system.

<e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Your best bets are Argentina and El Salvador.

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> why is it getmonero, makes it look like a scam

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Thats the “offical”

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Cakes owns monero.com

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> what about monero.org

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> instead of getmonero.org

<y​asabi:matrix.org> monero.org is owned by a domain squatter who tried to get 10K XMR from the team for it

<y​asabi:matrix.org> no one knows who they are, don't download anything from the site or you could get pwnt

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> wtf, thats the website I use

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> for downloading shit

<y​asabi:matrix.org> welp

<y​asabi:matrix.org> you should do more research

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> oh wait no

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> I just checked

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> I always used getmonero.org

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> I just never noticed

<y​asabi:matrix.org> good to hear!

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> I realized now because javascript is only enabled on getmonero not on monero.org

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> alright cool thanks

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Should be no js on getmonero.orgy

<y​asabi:matrix.org> you may want to consider switching to using a package manager instead of installing things from websites

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> I know but the icons dont load without js so I enable it on some website just for looks

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> never heard of this will look into it

<y​asabi:matrix.org> MacOS has homebrew, windows prolly has something but you shouldn't use windows regardless lol

<y​asabi:matrix.org> looks like windows has winget, but the version of monero in it is way out of date

<y​asabi:matrix.org> it won't work on the current network

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> why not? yeah its winget I used that before

<y​asabi:matrix.org> it's by far the most invasive and least secure operating system

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> its the best UI though, is there any linux system with similar UI? Also windows has the most support across all applications

<o​rion_midast:matrix.org> sent them the email and told them they can join element devs chat as well. We'll see.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> KDE Plasma is basically the Windows UI, though obviously not as polished