<j​oiboi.crypto:matrix.org> BRINGBACKOFRN!

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> #freeofrn

<j​oiboi.crypto:matrix.org> #freeofrn

<b​asses:matrix.org> fucker eats his feet and likes necro, little... and doesn't browse the internet likes humans

<b​asses:matrix.org> fucker eats his feet and likes necro, little... and doesn't browse the internet like humans

<b​asses:matrix.org> monero.town/post/2251

<b​asses:matrix.org> _10 month ago_

<t​rasherdk:monero.social> So, what little bitch banned ofrnxmr this time? Do we need some spring cleaning ?

<d​ufebo98:monero.social> The total daily transactions have dropped dramatically. Did The flood attack finish?

the spam stopped, yes

if it was an attack or not is not clear

It has stopped now. Avr 35k tx per day. The ring size was 16 and now it's like 7, some say 5 but the attack has made the network less anon.

afaik the ring size 5-7 was during the spam attack, it does not apply anymore since the spam stopped

I remember when ring size 7 was considered enough D:

<a​remor:matrix.org> Good cautionary tale

<a​remor:matrix.org> Maybe the morale of the story is to always be creating new accounts

<m​exmoneroexchange:matrix.org> hello goyim

<k​arano:poddery.com> thats little risky , as you need to nr cautious everytime to secure your new seeds properly and you don't accidentally lose all your balance while sweeping funds

<k​arano:poddery.com> > <@aremor:matrix.org> Maybe the morale of the story is to always be creating new accounts

<k​arano:poddery.com> thats little risky , as you need to be cautious everytime to secure your new seeds properly and you don't accidentally lose all your balance while sweeping funds

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> Also shouldn't that be unnecessary because we already create one time stealth addresses anyway? So the risk you described is bigger than a potential gain.

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> I mean there shouldn't be a difference between churning and sending to another seed, am I right?

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> aremor

<a​remor:matrix.org> That comment was about LM accounts kevino

<a​remor:matrix.org> MrWonderland: ^

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> Ohhh, okay sorry 😅 Nvm then

Is there any currency or currency-like object which I can exchange privately and *easily* with monero, and which can be exchanged into real currency (preferrably USD)?

Bonds? Stocks? I'm not sure how it works.. are there any open platforms where I can trade those? Or it must be through a platform controlled and overseen by the GOVs?

gold and silver

Does it deliver actual gold? Or can I just store the gold in my account there?

In the latter case, can I get USD quickly from that account?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ladies and gentlemen, paper gold

they deliver gold

i've never looked into paper gold, doesn't appeal to me

but i'm sure there's someone out there willing to take your xmr and give you their own fiat currency...

hashem I want to make sure that the risk is really low, robustly repeatable.

Anyway, thanks for the pointer. I will take a deeper look on what they offer.

how are monero and wownero related?

they have a mostly shared code base, it's the doge to our bitcoin

except, kind of opposite because XMR has tail emission like doge, while WoW is hard capped like BTC.... which is probably not good for WoW long term but anyway

Lyza: what's the likelihood that wownero devs will put malicious code into the codebase one day

how low effort is it exactly?

I can't really put odds on that for you but I would not call it low effort. there is active development / maintenance from what I can tell, and if they were gonna try to rugpull they shoulda done it when it was $1.5 not 15 cents =p

WoW is 5.5 years old now

there's the #wownero channel on OFTC if you wanna check it out

> WoW is 5.5 years old now

what

yeah since late 2018

April 1st 2018

what other day would it be lol

lol

lolero

An ero that lols.

Do the Wownero devs actually contribute back to the Monero codebase? Not sure, I would be surprised however

Anyway, it's probably not that easy to put malicious code into our codebase, from anywhere

Sometimes you can hardly get your non-malicious code in :)

Does monero's "history" unbreakable guarantee relies on the assumption that certain cryptographic techniques it uses will never be broken?

My, do we have a guarantee?

But seriously: Yes, I think so. Like the whole rest of all crypto-using software on the whole planet.

nij-: yes. reality so harsh usually no one mentions it

If somebody starts to factor 2000 digit primes with an abacus and some clever system, it's game over

the algos will be broken someday

Maybe. For some things, you can prove that they are "unbreakable". For many, not yet.

B-| Ooops :(

I think this should be on the front page.

rbrunner What are some things that are unbreakable?

permaybehaps. the problem is that basically every reasonably secure message exchange between everyone relies on them

people don't wanna think about it

Thanks. I will find out exactly how it will break. First by reading the intro pdf :D

Every promise is an abstraction, and every abstraction leaks.

even i don't think my bad jokes will be decrypted by your favorite glowing organization within my lifetime

which is probably the compromise that will lead to my utter destruction

Where can I see the raw data of all transactions?

(I don't want an UI.)

data.mdb ?

not sure what you mean by "no UI"

He still lives in the 1970s, back when everything a computer did was printed out on paper.

Lyza where is data.mdb?

(Sorry I'm really new..)

Also, does monero mandate Tor for transaction? It seems that "Kovri" is still not mandated.

data.mdb is the raw LMDB (database) file, it's in the lmdb folder inside bitmonero, but I don't think that's really what you want

If so, how about when one wants to transact at a place where TOR is banned?

tor is not mandatory

clearnet and i2p are also supported

Kovri is dead, if you want i2p just use i2pd

Here? github.com/monero-project/monero/tree/master/src/lmdb

like, it's literally a file on your computer if you are running a monero node..... but what is it you actually want?

what do you want transaction data for? "no UI" just means you'll be staring at a bunch of hexadecimal you don't udnerstand

I want to see the its real struct info..

something like this? monerohash.com/explorer/tx/b2904afd…cde695239c25ecf8e3ad5d7769172e6d9/1

(obviously this has a UI but....)

Ok good enough :) It has a JSON rep.

in monerod there is the option: print_tx <transaction_hash> [+hex] [+json]

I'm not really using monero yet..

gotcha

I'm interested in learning the cryptographic techniques and implementations :-)

Lyza is there a de facto copy of the ledger db online somewhere?

(I just wanna make sure that it "exists" :D )

if you want a technical write up there's web.getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf

Thanks!!!!!

It's almost 4 years old though.)

still mostly accurate

a somewhat out of data copy of the blockchain is kept on the getmonero.org downloads page, and then like, all the various block explorers are also 'de facto copies online' I suppose

out of date*

Thanks.

How many full nodes are running, roughly? Can I list all of them?

this number will be an undercount but the main map I am aware of is: monerohash.com/nodes-distribution.html

Thanks! monerohash.com seems to be a great site for all sorts of info

just found this, they claim to have seen over 22k nodes over the last two weeks: monero.fail/map

How official is monerohash.com ?

it's just a mining pool

Btw, where can I see roughly how long it takes for a miner to complete a block (and how many txs therein)?

like on average? not sure, but the expected block time is 2 minutes and difficulty adjustments are frequent. you can also see a daily transaction chart at bitinfocharts.com/comparison/monero-transactions.html

Wow, what happened in init March?

preliminary analysis: github.com/Rucknium/misc-research/tree/main/Monero-Black-Marble-Flood

possibly somebody testing effectiveness of so called "black marble" attack on privacy, but we don't really know

Hmm Oh yeah.. what if someone deliberately flood the network?

Can the network ban that person? No way, right?

yeah, no way

:( ...

That's an actual problem, right?

fees are really the only discouragement, there has been some talk of raising them a bit but it's hard to raise fees enough to discourage a powerful actor without adversely impacting normal users

so-called full chain membership proofs are also being researched, which would make the "ring size" the entire chain, which would neutralize the effectiveness of flooding on privacy

increased ring sizes for the more short term have also been discussed, but at a certain point performance becomes an issue. node software needs some optimization work

I see.

anyway if you check the research, even assuming the person was controlling 80-90% of the transactions, they only took the average effective ring size down to 5-7

which is not great, and obviously some transactions are more affected than others just by bad luck, but at the same time, ring size 7 used to be the standard

and luckily even when a ring is fully revealed, amounts and addresses stay hidden

Note taken.

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> @Lyza fees are too too cheap, users who want privacy can pay 5cents

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> @Lyza its not badluck if bad decoy selection is using too many recent outputs which might be 'black marble'

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> or even using know coibase outputs / p2pool outputs

I'm saying that selecting decoys is random, therefore there is naturally variance in how many 'poisoned' outputs users would pick

the DSA used to pick among all outputs equally but that led to having an effective "most recent output = real spend" heuristic since most outputs get spent quickly

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> @Lyza its impossible to know if most recent outputs are spent quickly, its impossible to know in monero unless you guys have bugged wallet apps to know this data

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> using other chain data which is never actually used money but mostly exchanges doing txs, to make dsa depending on that is not correct

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> also using so many recent outputs in your decoy selection, invites these kinda attacks and makes them effective

there is also data from Monero pre RingCT

also, using recent decoys makes the effectiveness of these attacks die out faster than it otherwise would

everything is tradeoffs

also I didn't design or choose the DSA, I'm just some guy who has been following the r&d

<a​remor:matrix.org> What are good Monero accounts to follow on Nostr?

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> npub1l0j7srkgmdwy8839st2hn8f9utlgh9vtrm04jksh8tsu32h5vpms9k7zqa

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> npub1p47we20qqrn3rcnrhs22ygt2kayk320fq046y998zscq4hk7tgsqjn2qfl

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> @lyza effectiveness didnt die off, they have just paused while they regroup or analyze the data and make needed changes

The DSA had a bug fixed recently getmonero.org/2023/06/08/10block-old-decoy-selection-bug.html

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> @plowsof that selects more recent outputs ?

what I meant is that for black marbling to continue to be effective, an adversary has to continue to spam, and when they do the effectiveness dies off. wasn't making any sort of statement about the recent spam or saying the risk has passed

when they do stop*

"while they regroup" Sweet.

<r​objharr:matrix.org> new member

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> sum eth dapps are mandating kyc like vusd. onchain dapps are all going to require kyc sooner or later. monero wins again

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> question. when serai come out why would people who use monero want to private liquidity for kyc, non fungible coin?

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> btc, eth and other public chain are not fungible. lots of dapp on eth going to kyc now for stablecoin buyer. this mean stablecoin market for eth will soon all be kyc. if users want to safely hold money they will swap from btc/eth to xmr but who from xmr want to take on that risk when swap? this is where price premium come in. when this moment comes, not cbdc or other bullshit, xmr<clipped message>

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> will go up lots because people want to sometimes save their money

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> that why serai and haveno is most important

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.se/PFfQPYyrUMTxDdUrknlhgPpE

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> eth also based on staking. all protocol now rely on liquid eth or other leveraged eth. for most user they are in US when staking. when sec come for eth all stakers will need kyc. 2k+ nodes also in us need kyc. big trouble for eth users:

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> cointelegraph.com/news/kyc-to-stake…-eth-it-s-probably-coming-to-the-us

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> this is because eth is a security

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> i dont know if this post real but also satoshi actually say bitcoin investment even tho in his email he "doesnt want it to be viewed as investment". satoshi also knew bitcoin was ponzi

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> he didnt want get in trouble for it so he distance after wikileaks incident

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> $50m in this dapp and only growing. kyc 😍

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/YuEdZxRSqvuGtqaJjshnyMQi

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Is there a way for monerod to always use tor when interacting with stuff on the web?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> > --tx-proxy arg Send local txes through proxy:

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> <network-type>,<socks-ip:port>[,max_con

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> nections][,disable_noise] i.e.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> "tor,127.0.0.1:9050,100,disable_noise"

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> this?

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> i think if you use this some txs will go through clearnet if no onion peer is available

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> -p2p-bind-ip 127.0.0.1 --no-igd

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> + running tor proxy that locally forward connection to monerod

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> this using torsocks i think there is a newer experiment way (github.com/monero-project/monero/bl…b/master/docs/ANONYMITY_NETWORKS.md) but i havent tried

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> --p2p-bind-ip 127.0.0.1 --no-igd

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> how does it know to use 9050 as the port?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> would like to avoid torsocks tbh

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> have a read of this then: github.com/monero-project/monero/bl…b/master/docs/ANONYMITY_NETWORKS.md

oh

exit

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so --tx-proxy won't use clearweb?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> when sending a transaction yes

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> (You said it might but the linked doc doesn't seem to say it will)

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> only txs are routed over tor

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> I want it to be onion-only tbh

you can use --proxy for whole traffic

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> txs will be held in a local mempool. they arent broadcasted unless you start monerod the tx-proxy flag again or your connected to tor

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> there are no way to force your node to be *tor-only* as there are no usefulness in doing so. Peers need a fixed address to communicate to and broadcasting messages between them don't leak any privacy sensitive informations. You can at most: Tell monerod to broadcast transactions on anonymity networks and support peering through anonymity networks. You can't disable clearnet p2p

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> if you specify --add-peer I think so

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Torsocks remain the only option for your requirement as selsta proposed with --proxy

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> what mnemioc seed len will seraphis support again?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> iirc polyseed, so 16 words

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> it still possible to recover older seeds with 25 len?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> cool. i cant remember then what the bad thing was. i think it was that all user have to regenerate their address?

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> because old address wont work

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> When Seraphis will arrive. Everyone will need to regenerate addresses yes.

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> but apparently seraphis going to take 10 years so i guess i leave worry for later

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> More like 5 years

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Before 2030

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> wow

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> Ideally i don't want my ISP to know that i have a monerod on my network tbh and i don't trust VPNs

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> i hosted node to with torsocks isp wont know

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> thats only way i know how to do it with torsocks

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> I hope the devs working on it would be around by the time it’s completed 😅

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> is fcmp the same. i know it take shorter time if implement with ring sig but with seraphis 5 years?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so iiuc `proxy` is not enough right?

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Add more time if you want seraphis with fcmp

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Also seraphis is still under consideration and can be rejected if it’s not suitable

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> you said you want tor for everything when interacting with web so yes you need torsocks

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> oke thanks for info

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> were too early 😢

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Or too late

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Only time will tell

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> kyc on all public blockchain coming

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> were early not late

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yah would be effective in a decade

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> you know your early when you can use fishy exchange like tradeogre no kyc without problem for now...

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> remind me of btc no kyc day where you can buy with paypal nothing

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s last obscure exchanges left

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> there always will be 1 obscure exchange because of money to be made from fees until the blockchain becomes kyc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> We need more of that type of exchange, it's like OG exchange who don't care about anything

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> when blockchain become kyc thats when it end

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> We will see, I am waiting for $60 to see if we survive that

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> it's why we need Serai and Haveno last month

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> ^

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Last year

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> look at this. eth dapp need your fucking address now 😁

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Haveno last year

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Serai last month

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> serai most important over haveno. people on eth need exit liquidity when the chain captured by blackrock

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> I don’t deal with gambling shit, I need a functional currency

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> this not gambling. its just stablecoin

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I need to be able to get cash even after LM get cooked

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> So I really need Haveno before that execute

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> if all stablecoin need kyc which will happen because they all on usd

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> eth stakers also will need kyc

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> And they will kyc if they need Fiat

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> not eth staker or most stablecoin user dont want kyc. if they kyc they wont use stablecoin just go on exchange not offchain stablecoin

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> the price will increase because of the privacy premium monero has when all blockchain become kyc

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yes but for privacy you need a functional coin, not something which can be attacked for $600/day

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> that why were too early

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yah too early and too much hopium

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just take it in a different way

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> the more it go down, the more you can accumulate

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And when the great admins scam execute, you are going to be happy

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> i wont say hopium. this one of the lowest point for monero

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> The more it goes down, more clown I look

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> did you see my post in monero community?

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> xmr illiquid right now so the price cant be trusted

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Where does the liquidity come from ? When you can’t even have a working coin

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Effective ringsize 5-6 is dinosaur tech

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> We even saw a demonstration about how monero can go up when admins scam

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Lookup when Trudeau did confiscate bitcorn and freeze bank account

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Then check on XMRBTC daily chart for that date.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just bring more scam please

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> compared to alternative this is still good

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> alternative is ring size of zero yeah lol

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> what you going to use bitcoin mixer and make your coins 100% tainted?

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> There are enough alternatives we are not in 2016/17 even wownero can adapt faster

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> wownero still has limited supply

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Plus even if Monero ring stuff get totally cooked, Destination and amounts still protected. That's the advantage of having different obfuscation system for each part of the thing, instead of using one protection for all

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Just like ngu corn

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Finex hackers got busted for pre ringct txs

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> all you saying just prove were too early

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> by your logic someone who saw monero in first days when it very cheap shouldnt have got into it. monero when it first came out had very shitty privacy compared to today

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Eae eabe is easier with 5-6ringsize

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> lol

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> go submit to irs bounty then

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> claim the $700k prize

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Spg is in line

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> /s

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Anyways price will be dull and lower adoption for years to come

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> they got busted because they use bitcoin and deposited into cex

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> they tried coinjoin with wasabi and it failed not monero

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> And xmr swaps

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> it doesnt matter if i do btc -> xmr -> btc

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> btc always tainted from that way

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> they converted millions of tainted btc on cex. what do you expect

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> chain hopping dont work

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> I will have some hope when MrL decides to up ringsize and not be a pussy behind computational power and depend on single remote node which fails due to bad load balancing

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> imajin thinking coinjoin offer proper protection.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> As far as I know they can know it got coinjointed in the past meaning when you coinjoin you apply taint to your coin.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Exchange can just confiscate the coin and bark at you just because it got coinjointed, even if they can't track what's before

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> also they compromised their cloud account to access their bitcoin wallet

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> so many errors made. monero doesnt protect you from every opsec

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They coin instead have slowly converted to xmr using thing like unstoppable... But nooo, let's use a CEX for that 😂

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They could instead have slowly converted to xmr using thing like unstoppable... But nooo, let's use a CEX for that 😂

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Didn’t exist

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> oh, that one was that old lol

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> actually it very easy to track coinjoin. it only safe if you keep a constant amount like 1 btc in there for months. even after that the coin is tainted and if you deposit into cex they will ask for kyc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> yeah, that's what I tought.

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> You can’t even swap a few btc without paying atrocious premium there

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> they had over 100k btc. it impossible for coinjoin to protect that volume

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> coinjoin only work for small amount. when the % of coinjoin tx is all from you haha it dont do shit

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> this why monero even without the ring sig guarantee is better because amounts and reciptant hidden

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Just accept the fact that there was a rug pull on monero roadmap

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Fluffy and gang sold at 0.03 and left bag holders

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> ok and bitcoin any better?

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> bitcoin hasnt changed their roadmap for 15 years

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Yes atleast has better buying power than xmr

<-​coffeeplease-:matrix.org> Dave's posts are always demotivating and mostly FUD. Talking about devs leaving, lower adoption, dinosaur tech, easy attack-able blockchain, non functional coin, only in the last few minutes alone.Don't pay too much attention, he is not here for Monero, he is only looking for a fight.

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> it all about alternative. if better private coin come then i will leave xmr but right now there shit

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> you didnt read my post from the community

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> ill post it here

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Okay I will not talk if you feel demotivated

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Have some coffee and chill

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> bitcoin initial usecase wasnt mainly dnm. it was used a lot there but it was heavily manipulated against trader this was the main one. one day bitcoin go from $30 to $2 because tether/bitfinex was manipulating price to scam bitcoin trader. this proof from CFO of tether

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/fdfXkXLXbQgttDNdjoijNYzZ

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> exact price after this post

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/rqvQyoeMrMLQwnfwPwqItNak

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> i like criticism. today is skepticism sunday so i open to it

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> No it’s ok, we are at bottom and ppl feel the pain when I put salt on it.

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> its to be expect. when you invest into a project like this there massive risk involved

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> whether that be invest your time or money

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Time is more important

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> I should have smelled the coffee

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> very little goes through cross-chain bridge (like from crypto->moner)

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/mbjRlCcJIKTpfLEsoSTRQygc

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> very little goes through cross-chain bridge (like from crypto->monero)

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> criminals literally just either go through mixer or straight to exchange

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/hBIwZLIwMReKFfVISDxhGPvz

<m​onerogoingto0:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/eQrmSIXcMBpFwxWpqHlzkMre

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Just yesterday someone was here claiming how samourai coinjoins have better privacy than monero with effective ringsize of 5-6. I don’t know the merit of that argument but it was right here.