<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> I made a few graphics showing Monero block sizes (and median of last 100 blocks) in March: github.com/spackle-xmr/chaindata_graphics

<s​packle_xmr:matrix.org> Not rigorous, not polished, just a bit of fun.

<c​0mmando:hackliberty.org> Microsoft gets hacked by Russia like once a year

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Trying to remember about that russian botnet that got taked down because a a Linux CVE a few months ago

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That one about ld-linux.so.2 giving root to everyone asking for it

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Linux-ld? Anyway, the linux loader that come with glibc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I did not say linux suck, I say that all sucks, diffently

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> My 486 copy files faster on dos (small 512 bits files) compared to my Ryzen on windows 11.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> #alloperatingsystemssucks

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Not only that, but the 486 class machine dont have dma on the ide channel its stuck in pio mode 3... Its a compact flash with an effective speed of ~3mb/s. Wtf why it win again a ryzen /w 4gb/s nvme drive (with windows explorer).

What's the most private way to exchange monero and USD (or any other real money)?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> n​ij- : localmonero via tor

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Assuming you have access to peers that have "cash at ATM" option

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And live in a country that allow that thing

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Wait, it won't be USD.., but local other countries USD...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> If you want USD USD its going to be hard because US bank don't do that.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> You can exchange to USDT (via trocador.app, available from TOR), if so, use with TRX network because cheaper. Then it will be as private as it get imo

:(

Yeah, last time I was traveling in another country,

the exchanges are required by law to film me, my speaking of an honesty statement.. and more before I can exchange with them.

That's crazy.

How about.. monero<->gold ?

Why is this so difficult..

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> You can buy gold in the USA, using XMR.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> moneromarket.io

Is the transaction trackable?

Doesn't seem to be.. hmm..

I just want to figure away to raise the liquidity between monero and USD as much as possible.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Monero is fine (as long as EVE not involved)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> For moneromarket.io, you can setup PGP keys and if you do so, moneromarket.io or whoever have access to his data won't be able to read any of the message you send to the other peers you transact with

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> assuming the seller does not leak your informations

How about this pipeline? -

(1) monero - > get bitcoin online

(2) exchagne bitcoin with usd in person

I just need to ensure that they can't trace back to the fact that I owned those monero.

(Btw, I havne't checked for 2 years. Is there any crypto that claims to be "more secure" than monero?)

(2 years ago monero was definitely still the mose secure and private)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> it depend where you get the bitcoin from and if you have proper opsec (you use a fresh bitcoin address, use tor, use an exchange that don't mind tor and have no kyc). BTC issue is that while it "can" be private, it is not by default, you have to do some gymnastics to be able to use it privately. And even if it's private, if you get your btc from non kyc exchange, there is some cha<clipped message>

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> nce of getting tainted BTC (tracked BTC that got used for drugs, crimes, cp, etc, etc)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Monero is definitively the most serious private option that exist.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And monero probably have the biggest altenative market option...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> For example you don't have moneromarket.io or localmonero.co equivalent with Piratechain or Firo

Awesome. Is monero under development? Any new concepts that's yet to be implemented? Besides its user friendly manual, where I can read about its deeper implementation details (source code is may be too hard for me so far.)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> masteringmonero.com

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> You can download the PDF for free

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Monero is still under development, you can even see what's up right now in #monero-dev:monero.social & #monero-research-lab:monero.social , But stay silent in these except if you actually have something constructive for the project to share ;)

Got it. Thanks! Exciting :)

I hope the world find an easier way to exchange cryptos with real money soon.

Before that I need to find workarounds..

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Haveno soon™️

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Try to onboard bitcoiners from bisq, binance p2p, etc, etc to Agoradesk.com (it work the say way and they can also trade the Monero on there).

I don't know how "private" I remain if I take that route.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> agoradesk allow you to trade BTC and XMR, if these Bitcoiners look at the traders on the XMR side, they might see that they get more trades with time... and if so might also do the XMR ;)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, it all depend of what methods are available in your country, to exchange the cash.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I think in USA they have a lot of "cash by mail"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> for most private

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> While in Latin America and Russia they will have also some "Cash at ATM"

I wonder.. if the transaction is too big and it's becmoing risky,

how do I make sure that they will actually send the money to me?

I also wonder.. if I'm at an ATM.. how do I make sure that the money will be spit out?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Localmonero.co is reliable but pay attention to trade with reputable trader (or start with small amount when you try a new trader and go up slowly at each new trade)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> If cash at ATM is available in your country, usually you press "withdraw without card" and then you type the code... then the cash just flow out.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But again use traders with some feedback and/or with small amount to test the water first.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Stay way from people offering Western union, paypal and other shiet, Theses are usually not local in your country and will often crosspost there offer in all countries.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They are know to be a lot less reliable than real locals

I see..

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> and those systems aren't reliable to begin with

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I never got any problem with localbitcoins then localmoneros, it really depend of your location and the quality of traders you can access

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> The one time I got a problem, localbitcoins ruled agains me but then the trader said oups and fixed it... AFTER localbitcoins ruled again me

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But yeah, not all countries have high quality traders and some country only have access to these "western union/paypal/kindof/scammers"

I trust you that your experience was overall fine.

But, I mean, much effort has been put into monero, making each step as safe and sound as possible.

But how secure the whole model is is how secure the weakest spot is.

I find that a bit pitiful.. and hope that there's a way to resolve it.

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> monero -> BTC -> CEX at a crypto-friendly country

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> bitcoin. the ledger is public

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> safety guaranteed. monero is hidden, obscured. they will scam you 100%

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> theres only 3 guys working on monero. kayba, rucknium and plowsof the moderator. thats it. development is slow because of this, unlike the fast speed of bitcoin lightning

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Lol

<a​remor:matrix.org> plowsof: you got the banhammer?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> fcmp coming in 1.5 years minimum. monero will be insecure for another 1.5 years

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/sEtySgokSxYJCudepRWjIpBd

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> why you trying to scam people sayiing monero is private? it isnt anymore

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Can you track my transaction?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i need enough resource to spam the network so no not me but stronger people like government or chain analysis company can do it

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> So it’s private

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> no thats a lie

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If you can’t do it then it’s private for me

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> that like saying bitcoin is private because we dont account for chain analysis

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you cant trace my bitcoin transactions. all my tx goes through whirlpool and this safe from you. so bitcoin is private for me

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> You don’t neeed chain analysis account to see txs on blockchain explorer and see inputs and outputs being spent

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Good for you, go and use it then

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ok. i was just answering question from newcomer. dont want them to get scammed from monero liars saying it 100% private when it not

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It is private

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Even after spam the probability was less than 20%

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> yes that probability is higher than using whirpool...

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> my point still stands, monero shit compared to bitcoin for 1.5 year minimum. until new changes maybe it get better but right now you lying

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Go use your rock, don’t waste your time here; we can churn our transactions much faster and cheaper than your retard tools

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> what happened to only use monero? what happened to it be simple? you have to churn now haha it insecure

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> liars come to bitcoin community and say it more private. i just exposing bullshit

<a​remor:matrix.org> Gotta stop playing with the clowns. Just slap ‘‘em and keep it moving

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Churning monero is using monero

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s private than your transparent bitcoin, are you retard ?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> btc is more private than xmr with less effort now. i agree with you in the past xmr was better but now its weakest point and you lying. you can do the same with bitcoin. buy from dex (like localbitcoin like localmonero) then churn (use whirlpool) with lower pecentage of getting tx exposed...

Im impressed at how many xmr dot ?? Urls there are

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> You are stupid, plain btc transaction is no where private than plain monero transaction

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Churned txs are much more private than your whirlpool txs

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> with fcmp and seraphis monero will beat bitcoin privay

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> with fcmp and seraphis monero will beat bitcoin privacy

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> That is 5-6yrs away and I am not holding breath

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> your spreading misinformation now. churn can actually hurt privacy. you need to learn how to do it and stop saying it blantant. it not simple

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> uboe said 1.5 years minimum

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ukoe said 1.5 years minimum

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Same way you need to learn how to use whirlpool ? Retard go back to your maxi cave

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> No, go read MRL

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> no. whirlpool you click one button with a samourai wallet

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> churn you have to read obscure guide from darknet and maybe it more secure

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> UkoeHB

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> It would be less time without a curve change. A FCMP solution for RingCT is at least a 1.5-year endeavor from this point based on the current landscape. Writing papers and reviewing very advanced cryptography takes time, in addition to the dev effort required.

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i did

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you read nothing clearly

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> You don’t need to use churn on monero unless you have participated in a Russian attack, but with btc even to hide from me you need to use whirlpool

<a​remor:matrix.org> dave.jp: why you feeding the troll?

I would still not use CEX because sharing an ID is too uncomfortable. Might very well leak.

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Seraphis with fcmp, go read again your own words

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ok i see you right with seraphis. but even without seraphis it be more private than bitcoin

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Bored

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> so 1.5 year minimum

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how im trolling? all im saying is monero is not 100% private and current with btc whirlpool its more private

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> All time frames in monero land needs to be 2-3x

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> whirlpool volume increase super after the spam attack

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> and price went down. i wonder why...

<a​remor:matrix.org> s/monero/software

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Price has been going down since 2018 lol

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> haveno prove this haha

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> coming out 2022

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> 👍️

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Indeed and I don’t shy away from the fact

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> But bitcoin is 💩

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i agree with this before monero went to its weakest point. bitcoin normally shit but monero is so shit now that bitcoin is valid alternative FOR NOW...

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> hopefully monero does well. it not like i want to fail im just addressing concerns

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Monero has similar attack in 2021 If I remember correctly, you are new here

Monero is reasonably private

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> We can do 40 ringsize now with a small fee bump and your attacker will have to bleed xmr

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Only if these devs wake up lol

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> not as bad as this. solution take 5 years minimum with seraphis and fmcp or 1.5 years with rngct + ring. thankfortoday situation fork was worst one but this bad as equal

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> And not go after piped fcmp

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Time to change that on getmonero?

<a​remor:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/HWuLxfzlBdekwXnzzixSHSLV

<a​remor:matrix.org> Oh Element got my back!

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> its okay aremor you can hide from monero vulnerability and wish it safest

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> but the market prove for now that bitcoin and other even ethereum with tornado cash like getting lots of volume after spam attack

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> one serious critcism i have. if cbdc ever come - how will monero fight against this? all tx related to monero can be blocked like localmonero can track sellers with the cbdc. how will monero have on/off ramp with cbdc? i always see this situation as good for monero but it seems more bad

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> only solution i think is mining but the reward so low if someone want lots it wont be enough

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> nobody is hiding, its discussed in public

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> where are you getting this data ? charts ?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> what ? same way you are using whirlpool ; there will be atomic swaps & on/off ramp to cbdc can be p2p

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> infact whirpool txs will be banned by kyc exchanges if they already havent

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> lets say all have to be on cbdc. even if p2p the owner of cbdc can block accounts who transact with monero if they suspicious enough

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> how are they going to know what was sent for monero ? lol

that "bitcoin is gold" person looks like the persistent troll that visits Monero rooms and channels for a few days now

For a while it's fun, but then becomes a bit tedious

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> all sellers on localmonero are public? it easier to create fake mole like fed and get the bank id or cbdc of someone. also if seller want to cash out they have to give reason...

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> same way banks dont know what you have sent a tx for, cbdc wouldnt know they can see just you sent to xyz acc

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> they have their cbdc or banking details public ?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i got something perfect for you

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i need to find post. someone seller on localmonero withdrew their profits to bank and they found out. they closed his account and sued him

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> ther is nothing to see, same issue you will have cashing out your whirlpool btcs

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> this isnt even cbdc just bank

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> so no one wins?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> yes same banks also banned localbitcoin accounts

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> im not saying whirpool is perfect. i said it was only better than monero FOR NOW

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> we stay in xmr, we dont need your fiat onramps

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> only retad bitcoiners need fiat offramps

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how is someone going to get into xmr in the first place if they cant buy because their no seller?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> buy/sell goods/services

<a​remor:matrix.org> Rbrunner I tried to get plowsof on the banhammer. Could have fixed this early before all the spam got out

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> yes good point. circular economy

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> obviously xmr needs to go there and not suck dick like btc did with banks

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> bitcoin is different to monero. it will be 100% compliant in future

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> bitcoin is cucked

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> yes and i dont care

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> no you do care, thats why you came here lol

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> nobody will accept your tainted coins

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> while ppl will stil transact in xmr

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i still like both bicoin and monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i dont need tainted. all my btc is kyc and from cex not darknet like you i presume

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> good for you, now go to sleep

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> i dont have a single tainted btc, its all clean xmr

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> and not all cex block whirlpool

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> soon

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> only normie cex do that

it's not a zero sum game

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there will be no non-normied cex

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you like darknet. if btc go down then so does monero. all darknet withdraw to bitcoin or other clearnet coin

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there will be no non-normie cex

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> the volume increase from whirlpool prove it

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> are you retard ? you dont need dnm to use monero

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> only retard vendors cashout their xmr to btc and usdt

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> they will regret soon

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ok good night

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you know nothing

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> and you do, bcoz you are one of those tainted bitcoiner

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> for darknet vendors the liquidity of xmr not enough

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> some of the biggest one

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> they have to withdraw with other means. i wont describe it but it with clearnet coin

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> liqudiity to what ? fiat or btc ? lol

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> soon they wont be able to use that fiat

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> from xmr -> fiat

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> and will have to use xmr circularly

Is it time we get yet another troll in the room?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> fiat dead in a couple of years, only left with cbdc

I just did a tx

find it

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> same

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> find mine with whirlpool :)

so it's not broken

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> not now but 30 mins ago exactly. if whirlpool so bad track me

great \o/

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i said it broken but you need lots of resource to spam network again. government or chain analysis can break it not me

did I say that?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> no but you make double standard

I did?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i hope xmr have circular economy but it sound like pipe dream. lots of normie cant use browser properly

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how they going to use a full xmr circular economy?

lots of people can't logic

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> cex very hard for normie like coinbase and you only connect bank account, kyc and click buy button

beware; I am posting b4 tea lol

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> lot of normies couldnt use a phone at some point in time

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> so you think it will take 10+ years?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> what stopping normies from getting misinformation and thinking bitcoin more private?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> bank will use bitcoin against normie

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> 10+yrs to rollout cbdc and take cash out of circulation ? yes

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> cbdc might even be bitcoin we dont knnow yet

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> like you do ? nothing, some normies are retards anyways

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> cbdc might even be bitcoin we dont know yet

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if you actually read what im saying its right

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> im not saying bitcoin is better than monero. im just saying its more private temporarily because monero is very weak from black marble attack

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> most norimies are not going to use btc or xmr, they will be stuck with cbdc

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i like both bitcoin and monero like you probably like cash and monero. impossible for you to use monery only now

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i like both bitcoin and monero like you probably like cash and monero. impossible for you to use monero only now

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there is no ongoing attack, so btc was temporarily better ? but it wasnt

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i dont know what the probability is now but if it above 10% approx then it worse than bitcoin solution

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> during attack it was above 20%

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> for bitcoin its 100% , unless you are using some obscure tools which normies have never heard of

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> xmr right now sad as it is more obscure than bitcoin coinjoin

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> lots of bitcoin normie know about coinjoin

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> prove it

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> are you on bitcoin twitter?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> no i am not on shitcoin twitter

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you can literally ask most know about taproot, coinjoin and privacy btc solutions

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> prove this first before going away to other topics

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how do you want me to prove it exactly?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> this from my experience in bitcoin community vs monero

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> how is coinjoin better than xmr

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ah this easy to prove

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> before xmr attack there was very low probability of guessing correct output. after spam it was raised as rucknium proved. this mean you have to do churn now if you want near 100% safety and this can lower privacy. it make more complicated since delisting too so if you want privacy now its dex + churn.

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i argue that because of this bitcoin coinjoin is easier and safer solution. you can use localbitcoins like localmonero then use coinjoin. it has lots of output (200+) like rings:

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> mempool.space/tx/198aee6e1b2cad9b7c…80fbaab0b20c07016031d0c2416b3ef9b70

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> it more safer

people that used coinjoin have been tracked

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there is no attack right now, how is coinjoin better than xmr right now ?

but I hear that lightening increases privacy lolol

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> vulnerability still here

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> the attack stop but its not gone. someone can start it again how naive are you

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> coinjoin has plenty of vulnerability, if you dont do cointrol properly you are dead

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> straght away tainted

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> xmr its only probability , they cant prove its same coin moving around

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> same with coinjoin if you follow the basic rules. dont withdraw from coinjoin too quickly and avoid using unique amount. xmr has same vulnerability with fees and breaking monero show others. im not saying coinjoin perfect

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> and you just need to churn a few times, you dont need to show entire world you are using whirpool and then hide in a cave while using those outputs

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> coinjoin doesnt even hide amounts, its more vulnerable to attacks

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> all you need to do is churn, all you need to do is avoid unique fee if spam attack, all you need to do is use localmonero and hope liquidity is enough then it only probability. both have issues

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> this doesnt matter as you have to use base amount (same like 1 btc, 2 btc) which obscure it. unless you use custom amount like custom fee in monero, you stand out. the privacy still there if you buy from dex

unlike btc monero has always been upfront with its limitations

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> i dont need to use localmonero, only retards want fiat liquidity

and btc has many more of them

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> clearly not read earlier people saying its private 100%

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> aka bitcoiners

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how do you get monero then?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> from the air fluffy inflates some token for you?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> alraedy said it previously buy/sell goods/services, but i guess you fiat hungry maxis cant think outside of central bank coins

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how am I going to see 100k+ worth of goods tomorrow?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> how am I going to sell 100k+ worth of goods tomorrow?

did btc ever do a breaking btc series?

no cause you don't need to break it

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> if your goods are worth it, you will find a buyer

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> not this but on btc twitter we constantly discuss privacy issue

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ???

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> there is no privacy in btc lol

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> nothng to discuss, full stop

sorry not on tweeter

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> thats just false

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i dont blame you being ignorant about it

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> you have anonymity, not privacy

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you probably dont follow btc development anymore

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> maybe you should look in the mirror

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you can have privacy if you get it from dex

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> using those same banks ? which you had problems with monero doing so ?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> or you are selling your soul on dex

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you can use cash by mail like monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> in the future btc will fully comply with banks and selling will be easy but kyc everywhere

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> so monero is better than bitcoin, bcoz it does everything bitcoin does but better and has privacy by default

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> not right now

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> in future ? there are already compliant blocks being mined

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> monero WAS better and it can be better in the FUTURE

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> your coinjoins will not even be mined

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> monero is better and will get better

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> lol

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> keep telling yourself that

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> you can laugh as much as you want, your shitcoin has been captured and your privacy dream will have no light

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> cant wait to sell a house to get $1 million in monero because in the future you cant buy anything

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> are you saying that to yourself in the mirror ?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> good night

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> ok china man

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> nothing wrong with china. its a good example of why monero failed. xmr in china is instant jail time

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> good thing about xmr you cant even know i have it :)

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> china is a jail

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i dont know but if the chinese government was motivated enough they can know by spamming the network

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> not even hard for them to do 51% attack

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> yah its easy for them to do 51% on btc, as govs know where those miners are

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> anyway what i learnt today is that no coin perfect and cryptocurrency still shit. stop overhyping monero because its far from perfect and stop living in imaginary perfect world. criticize it constantly so it improve

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> btc a good example. if china attempt 51% it war on US. bitcoin can never be 51% because of this

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> with blackrock now exposed it in best interest of US to keep btc safe

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> we dont go out taking our monero flags on streets, its bitcoiners who wear it on their shirts lol

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> monero is better than your butcoin, simple

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> blackrock has no intrest, they can naked short and make money if they want to

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> yes you put sticker on pole and tell people on bitcoin twitter that monero is 100% private

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> we get trolls from monero as do you from bitcoin

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> lol atleast we dont go out sucking dicks of bankers

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> were being honest

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> yah i am being honest xmr doesnt suck dicks of bankers, bitcoiners do that daily

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> thats fine and i appreciate that xmr try to be private

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> xmr is private and better than btc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Bitcoin has been hijacked long ago. Sad 😞

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> we are going in circles now

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> you are going in circles, you know its private but you want to go shill your coinjoin

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> monero will be too soon if this bullshit continues. learn from our mistakes

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> my whole argument was that monero wasnt 100% private and that coinjoin is better if used correctly. i dont care what you say because the volume on samurai and wasabi proves me correct

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> what bs ? we are already talking about upgrades ; what are bitcoiners doing ? talking about next etf and how to suck the next baner

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> banker

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> anything cant be 100% private

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> bankers are okay right now. if any economy tried using monero it would fail because its not even scalable

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But you can know if the output you receive got coinjointed before, right?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> volume of wasabi samourai speaks, how tainted btc is that they need to use those tools

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> nothing to do with monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> yes its possible to track but if you do it properly it becomes a game of probability. the probability is lower than guessing the correct output for a monero transaction during the spam attack and currently if the probability is still above 10% for xmr

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I don't mean tracking it. But does it's bright red and say "track me, I been coinjointed in the past" on it?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> this doesnt matter because xmr is the same

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> using xmr has the same implication of suspicion from cexs

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> on dexs this coinjoin doesnt matter and you can withdraw a larger amount than on monero

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Like can cex just bark at you instantly because its been coinjointed?

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> no, only retarded cex have suspicions ; kraken works fine

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> bcoz they understand privacy

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> this wont last long

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> literally same with xmr. if you deposit a high enough amount they will force kyc and lock it

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> At least all xmr look the same.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Kinda

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> sure, you bitcoiners will suck dicks somehere and get monero delisted ; you coinjoiners want to show your dick is bigger

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> all fraud is how xmr look

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i dont hate monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> calm down

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> biggest fraud was bitconnect all bitcoin

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if you dont want to have a civil conversation go rant somewhere else

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> ok sucker

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> serai and haveno are being built for a reason

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> cexs will never work with monero. governments hate monero because of its association with crime

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> stop replying to me

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Gouvs hate monero because they can't track it. There is was more crimes using cash and banks.

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> ignored

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ill do something better, muted

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ok and when cbdc comes

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> where is all that crime going to go? disappear?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They are implementing cbdc so they can have an eye oh what every pleb is consuming and doing

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Its not about crimes

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i agree and i have a problem with this. the retard jack ma said that a circular economy for monero will be the only way of getting high amounts

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> with cbdc do you know of any solution to get xmr? p2p may not work because governments can list all tx as suspicion if they dont have proof of why its being made

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> High amounts of what ?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I assume monero might pump when it go full cbdc. As you said bitcorn gonna get full KYC

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> cbdc -> xmr

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Circular won’t need cbdc

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if I have $10 million in cdbc how would I go into xmr in the future? how will xmr pump if its impossible to do that?

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Pump? Fiat btc maxi mindset?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> for $10 million what goods could I buy/sell?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i was responding to ravfx he mentioned pumped

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> here

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> If xmr economy existed you could be buying yatchs condos

Well I can buy a VPS and domain, might buy gift cards. A bit closer to this.

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i wish this would happen but it has to start somewhere and i dont know how. like i agree btc will be kyc but it will be 100% possible to do high volume tx and then coinjoin or another privacy layer may be developed in the future

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> What would happen when miners start complying and blocking conjoin txs?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> P2p might work but the state might get suspicious depending of the pattern you make while dumping it (technically they see you giving money to some random but if you do it each time you get your wagie deposit they probably going to know there is something going on)

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if ravfx suggest bankers like doing crime still they would still like doing it on btc

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> With xmr you can’t differentiate txs, with bitcoin you can

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> They can do it with their compliant btc txs

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> this is a problem of consensus that no crypto has solved. you can say the same about monero. what happens if monero is successful and the government spends billions on cpus to 51% attack it? miners wont comply its unrealistic as that would mean many nations like china, us where the miners are based need to collaborate

TIL btc is safe cause of blackrock :D

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Monero doesn’t comply or can’t even comply as it’s all fungible

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> true

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> anyways this wasnt meant to be about btc. ik it will comply in the future and i admitted it earlier. this is about liqudity and monero when/if cbdcs come

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Indeed black rock is the bitcoin god this cycle

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Dident they reverted that compliant mining thing when people went berserk about it. I assume its delayed only

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> ETH is more compliant

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But some btc mining pool are KYC afaik

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Liquidity can come from goods and services doesn’t always have to Fiat coins

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Liquidity can come from goods and services doesn’t always have to be Fiat coins

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if a circular economy is the solution, how would this start? care to give an example scenario? if yatchs, boats, etc. are sold that would mean rich people would somehow need to trust moneo

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if a circular economy is the solution, how would this start? care to give an example scenario? if yatchs, boats, etc. are sold that would mean rich people would somehow need to trust monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> correct and i fully agree btc is a compliant, bank loving coin. my point way earlier was that FOR NOW its better than the current scenario of the black marble attack vulnerable monero

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Same way your frnds at black rock trust bitcoin

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Whats the ratio of btc owned by these etf corpos?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> black rock only trusts bitcoin to earn money from fees

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> For now, current scenarios, very short time frame for to come and argue about it

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> from etf holders

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Good, so they can rug pull anytime

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, blackrock there to milk it, they dont give a fsck about the rest

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> they cant because theres something called the law. thats like index fund managers rug pulling from people

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> For now, current scenarios, very short time frame for you to come and argue about it

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They are going to fiativize btc, sell paper btc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But they wont rug, your right

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s all cash settled, they can stop the product anytime they want and force ppl to market sell

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> from blackrock i think its just shy over 1%

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Satoshi can actually rug, if he is still alive or something

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> In a couple of months, imagine a few years and then they rug

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> very useful site @ravfx:xmr.mx

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> bitcointreasuries.com

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> you can track all the companies, etf funds and the btc they hold

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> etf is now 4.878% supply this is bad, i agree

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> like i said this wont happen and its unrealistic to expect

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Thanks for that link, thought it was more than that

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> its better for the etf managers to earn as much fees as they can

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> within the constraint of law

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It would be realistic to not allow non custodial transactions, like EU has done

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Then good bye to your conjoins

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> paper btc may happen

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s all paper, all the volume you see on exchanges is paper

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i agree but how is monero excluded from this?

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> None of that is on chain volume

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Monero is excluded from the system

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> wrong. the addresses are public and you can see the on chain btc they hold

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I say more will that may. I assume etf will continue to accumulate and ride ngu then sell more and more paper btc. At the end you get a new fiat...

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Exchange volume not addr holding them 😂

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> It’s all about Fiat

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> ok lets get back to my original question about monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> so trust will happen because blackrock trust bitcoin? is that it?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Non

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Trust will append when state scan, whatever scam they do. For example, look at the date trudeau enacted the emergency laws and began stealing bitcoins and freezing bank accounts. Then look at xmrbtc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Trust will append when state scan, whatever scam they do. For example, look at the date trudeau enacted the emergency laws and began stealing bitcoins and freezing bank accounts. Then look at xmrbtc for that date to few months after

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> im talking about trust for a monero circular economy. how will wealthy people trust selling yatchs, houses, etc. for millions of monero suddenly?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> When most people use it obviously. Some probably did but they might not leaked the fack they sold there house in monero to the world, you know, privacy...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> More*

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i understand. theres no way of predicting what will happen

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i dont think a circular economy solution is viable. there has to be a way for going from fiat and back

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> a circular economy implies that people will get paid their salary in monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> economies will have to be based on monero

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> its unfeasible. even bitcoin wont do that

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, as long not all store accept it. I personally convert some every now and them for cash (no bank shit, im unbanked). Then use cash for rent, food, etc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I don't want to take the risk to onboard locals directly, so I'm also stuck with putting stickers.. No walking around advertising I have an unknown amount of monero. Hope the locals eventually figure it out one day.

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i also hope monero succeeds too but i dont have high hopes. i think the future will be cbdc only. everything will be compliant. btc, eth, etc. monero will either fade into obscurity or stay at the level its currently at. hopefully im proved wrong

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Note all place will switch to cbdc I assume, it seam to be mostly a first world things plus some outsiders. Some countries will get there gouvs official beheaded if they do that, some other just can't to it properly

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just hope they get massive hack so I can watch it go down with some popcorn.

<n​umotion:matrix.org> Following the discussion...to add to the viability of a circular economy I would say don't underestimate the size of black markets around the world that use mainly cash. It is not about yachts and condos perse. In addition consider the size of offshore banking where one needs to trust a third party. Markets to get in/out will develop in line as demand and dystopia grows imo.

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> lol cbdc will be based on blockchain. have you seen BUIDL and blackrock?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> someone here mentioned that this stuff happens with banks already. if a compliant coin comes in the future, criminals (big ones I speak of) can just use those same banks

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Dystopia will be the biggest force that will help monero grow (hopefully) or it might also be its demise if people have no way to get out of there cbdc without going to jail

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, criminals already use banks, like... HSBC 😂

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> those in the black market who have the biggest money dont use monero and dont have to. they have so much money they can go through the traditional system lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But cbdc will change the thing. Now state dont have much insight about what bank do. With cbdc, the state is the bank

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> bank = central bank

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> fed would be responsible in the us

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> one case for monero that i think may give it value is negative interest rates. not often spoken about but monero can be a way out. negative interest rates are not possible with cash but they will be if cash is phased out

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, so no more massive fraud like HSBC

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> if cdbcs somehow become tyrannical with spending limits on how much meat you can buy or your maximum carbon footprint

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> that can also provide a case for monero

<b​asses:matrix.org> RavFX: what are the methods to cash out monero? no KYC CEX?

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> my only issue is with liquidity. everything seems fine

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> my only issue is with liquidity. everything seems fine otherwise

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, like i said, dystopia will be the monero real bull market

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i wouldnt bet on it but hopefully monero does become used more in a dystopia. i wouldnt call it a bull market tho. remember that monero is a currency not investment. btc has taken over the investment narrative :D

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, with normie exchange running away when they see a monero. We need the other DEX tools asap and only people with a brain will be able to evade the scam

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> DEX wont solve the problem of cashing out that @basses:matrix.org mentioned

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> it will make it easier for crypto -> crypto swaps but then youll be relying on btc, etc.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Haveno will work where they wont implement the cbdc

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i did see haveno but it will prob have the same problems as bisq

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> for large amounts its not feasible

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But yeah, first world is cooked, they will need to circular economy (without getting caught)

<b​asses:matrix.org> Sanctions is the stupidest shit

<b​asses:matrix.org> Sanctions are the stupidest shit

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> it seems like circular economy is the only answer. maybe someone can come up with another solution in the future. monero has smart people

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i do agree with you all that btc is compliant. we dont even hide it anymore lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Same with Local monero. Bank atm have limit of how cash you can extract without a cast if you need to transact in loop to extract more.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But yeah, circular economy is the best answer as you wont need the cash if you can buy food with the xmr

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> > <@bitcoinisgold:xmr.mx> i did see haveno but it will prob have the same problems as bisq

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Same with Local monero. Bank atm have limit of how cash you can extract without a card if you need to transact in loop to extract more.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But yeah, circular economy is the best answer as you wont need the cash if you can buy food with the xmr

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> another possibility is the integration between ETH<->XMR. its looking like a cbdc may be based on eth as blackrock is now using it to distribute its tokenized fund. current cbdc implementations also rely on eth tokens (cbdctracker.org). it may be possible for xmr <-> eth cbdc swaps in the future but i imagine same kyc issues for today will arise

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> We already have eth<_>xmr atomic swap. Need usable UI afaik. But can they detect you swapped, is the question

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> serai will solve the problem of ui

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> True

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> currently all big criminals on the darknet use USDT as their front. even USDT promises to blacklist and they can do it but it rarely works out

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> XMR -> USDT -> CEX with VIP option

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> for $50m+

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, usdt only block when they know. Need someone to track it before or someone who complain to them (with proof) then they can block fast

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> mostly for scammers they do this not big criminals from other topics

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> scammers/hackers

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, bigger volume get a pass.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Scammer get caught because people complain

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Same for hackers

<b​itcoinisgold:xmr.mx> thats right :D

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Ok, now it's coffee time!

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> If you want to "CASH OUT"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> just find contact on localmonero for cash at atm then go to random bank ATM to get the cash

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Or Cash by mail if you don't have the "withdraw without card" option in your country

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> It's the only way to not have to interact with banks directly

<k​arano:poddery.com> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oddery.com/mtklGMqdJdpAEyWkwzvmwqDe

Cash by mail is not an option everywhere.

<b​asses:matrix.org> yep

<b​asses:matrix.org> will haveno also be able to do so?

<b​asses:matrix.org> also had a different idea, buy giftcards then sell them for fiat

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> yes

<b​asses:matrix.org> or swap to diff crypto and then use some exchange

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> giftcard are annoying but in countries that don't allow just extracting cash from random ATM it can be a good option

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> If you are going to other exchange in the plan of cashing out then I assume you are going to do a bank transfer, that you can also do on Localmonero and haveno soon™️

<b​asses:matrix.org> any specific differences between LM and haveno?

I have never heard of cash just being withdrawn in a random ATM. They need you to present a card even for basic transfers...

k​arano that is not unusual and is due to variance

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Main use case is the same time, XMR <-> Fiats

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But Haveno is decentralized and should not block countries like Localmonero do (LM do have to comply)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Also Haveno support swapping other coins too but that is not the primary use imo (plenty of place you can swap faster than waiting for contacts...)

sometimes to many and sometimes too few blocks blocks will trigger that warning

just check with an explorer if you like

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I did get that warning from time to time, that can append, fast blocks, slow blocks...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Do we still have that 1GH surprise miner?

havem't seen them for quite a while now

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Same

<b​asses:matrix.org> yep

<b​asses:matrix.org> how you are going to receive it, what address? I'm only aware of bank transfers

<b​asses:matrix.org> that require you to register a bank account

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> In some country you press withdraw without card, then you just type in a code. Then money flow out.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I assume most of Latin America and some other countries like Russia also have it afaik. No idea about africa.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I also assume that none of the western countries have it because they want to have maximum control

<a​leenor:matrix.org> don't think it's about control here. the money has to be withdrawn from somewhere, which means the code is linked to your account, which means it can be traced

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> The code is linked to the localmonero contact, not me :p

<b​asses:matrix.org> yep

<a​leenor:matrix.org> ah, I see what you mean

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> if you are scared about full traceability with that, go to the bank in covid mode

<b​asses:matrix.org> only U.S USPS luxury

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> In my location there is no cash by mail, never saw that being used

<b​asses:matrix.org> so you just go there type code from LM and cash out? no link to your personal address? etc

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> yep

<b​asses:matrix.org> wow lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> living in

<b​asses:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/sGcQFusWwofwgyZniqOLcEQC

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They have probably have that option because there a **lot** of unbanked in latam

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Probably same reason I can deposit into other people bank account from random convenient store (and also buy stuff on Amazon and Aliexpress that way)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Imajin not having the option "Cash" when you buy online 😂

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They probably have that option because there a **lot** of unbanked in latam

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Probably same reason I can deposit into other people bank account from random convenient store (and also buy stuff on Amazon and Aliexpress that way)

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> pretty nice

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> what country is that?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I let you guess

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> It's in latam (and a lot of latam countries have theses capabilities)

<b​asses:matrix.org> Brazil

<b​asses:matrix.org> lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That's the only one I would not touch

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I don't know if they have that, I mean, it's the WEF testbed

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> of course they used Brazil to test the digital ID scam

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And Ukraine... lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> better privacy laws than EU

<b​asses:matrix.org> need to immigrate

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Oh, might still be good then

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> We literally have "private mode" for the post too

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> only DHL complain when I order from China using that mode lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> njal.la/blog/dhlsucks

<b​asses:matrix.org> >We usually prefer getting these legal threats in physical form but we are aware of the skillset your company lacks in order to get physical letters delivered to it's destination.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I have no problem with DHL for local shipping.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But no not touching that anymore for international orders, if I can use alternative

<b​asses:matrix.org> btw I didn't quite get it, what address does the sender put (to send you cash)?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> He put the keyword for "private mode" in all fields except "country" and "postal code"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> It have to be tracked of course

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Then when it arrive in the Post/DHL/Fedex/whatever office that match that postal code, you go to the office, give the tracking number and get the package, easy.

<b​asses:matrix.org> that's cash by mail?

<b​asses:matrix.org> I mean the whole ATM thingy

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That's whatever by mail, can be ebay, aliexpress, random, whatever you use the mail for

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> oh

<b​asses:matrix.org> sorry I replied to wrong message lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> why do you mean for address, I do not do cash by mail

<b​asses:matrix.org> you said when you want to buy monero you go to some random convenient store and tell them to deposit this cash (handed by you) to X account.

<b​asses:matrix.org> but what if you are selling monero

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> cash at random atm

<b​asses:matrix.org> you said when you want to buy monero you go to some random convenient store and tell them to deposit this cash (handed by you) to X account. (localmonero recipient address)

<b​asses:matrix.org> flex

<b​asses:matrix.org> what address tho?

<b​asses:matrix.org> it has to be linked to your bank account, right?

<b​asses:matrix.org> not some temporary code

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> whatever the address the LM/haveno contact have

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I withdraw from **his** bank account

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I deposit into **his** bank account.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Hope theses contact have good opsec 😂

<b​asses:matrix.org> lmao wtf

<b​asses:matrix.org> I withdraw from his bank account

<b​asses:matrix.org> any limit?

<b​asses:matrix.org> he has to confirm

<b​asses:matrix.org> via some sms message that X rando wants to deposit?

<b​asses:matrix.org> via some sms message that says X rando wants to deposit?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> non, it's automatic

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Once I deposit, I press the I have paid button on LM

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> and he go check into his bank account

<b​asses:matrix.org> I mean the withdraw part

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> or get a notification on his phone

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> it's the same, he give a code, I type the code

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> then his phone notify him that he withdrew X amount

<b​asses:matrix.org> 🤯

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> it's in the bank app, just choose "generate a withdraw code"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> you punch the mount then it give you a code. Usually it's valid for one or two days depending of the bank

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> it's in the bank app, just choose "generate a withdraw code"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> you punch the amount then it give you a code. Usually it's valid for one or two days depending of the bank

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Banking in latam is sooooo much advanced than western nations 😂

<b​asses:matrix.org> 🤣

<b​asses:matrix.org> probably less corruption where you live

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.se/BWZQwwnTXRbbJzlBcJvotREx

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Everyone just use that for everything

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Like I purchase concert ticket, he ask me to deposit x amount in 1234 1234 1234 1234

<b​asses:matrix.org> or there would have been some extreme measures to to prevent _stuff_

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> Yes, especially Venezuela.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I don't know, some contact sometime have issue with there bank but usually give a code from another one lol, These people seam to horde a lot of bank account

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> It also work cross country depending of what bank

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.se/VgmBohaBfHaUuiHcmtdPxFBX

<system> file image.png too big to download (1413129 > allowed size: 1000000)

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> image.png

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> Most advanced country in the world.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> if it's like my country then yes, it beat everything up north (except on the inflation side 😂)

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> Their money has transcended the barriers of art.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> yeah, they got second use for cash, it's nice... You know ♻️ mean reduce/REUSE/recycle

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.se/oHgdfBPMnwUtpGuRobXtHMUB

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> I can guess what country you're in, not gonna doxx you bro, but I think I know now.

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> Worth visiting.

<b​asses:matrix.org> dm trust

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> are you a CCP agent?

<b​asses:matrix.org> nah FSB

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> oh, ok, imma patriot, imma doxx the whole bunch of these losers

<s​implemachines:xmr.se> wait a sec

<b​asses:matrix.org> 192.168.1.1

The option I can think of is using one of these cash terminals that you can pay for a variety of things through. The digital wallets like Qiwi are present there, and idk if they KYC you on the spot now. Afaik you can fill a phone balance with no problem at least.

But idk if you can just fill some digital wallet by the phone associated with it... Had no opportunity to try, but it might work.

As for cashing out - this one is a problem.

<b​asses:matrix.org> need real cash

<b​asses:matrix.org> not "digital wallet"

I haven't been following the discussion, but I'd generally be happy to sell some USD cash to people for Monero.

if they're real people

I men you can't really buy it for cash everywhere. I just got lucky knowing a person.

On Localmonero there were no such offers, on another site (which people usually use here instead), the only offers for cash were for enormous sums (like, $100 minimum) and the ones I even looked at had KYC.

I think you mean "you can't really sell USD cash for Monero everywhere", considering how little USD resembles money these days.

Not even USD - I meant local currency.

hmm

USD is not of much use here, mostly in preparation for travel or if people want to save the value of their money from decaying too fast.

Define "local currency". Do you mean you aren't in the US and the local shedding-value-notes aren't USD (e.g. EUR, AUS, CAN et cetera)?

wait, CAD

I think it's CAD.

I don't really recall all the abbreviated forms.

I am not in the US indeed.

And the inflation is way more than that of USD.

ouch

That's pretty bad.

So for buying without knowing someone IRL, I would probably try these cash terminals for a seller who accepts payment via the digital wallet systems. I don't know whether they confirm that the number you're sending to is really yours, or if they ask for both where the money should go and then KYC your number too.

By the way . . . I wonder about your name. Is it a mix of the ideas of an emergency medical technician or other medical professional and the Blue Heeler dog breed?

I've had occasion to meet one Blue Heeler, and it was an awesome dog.

Kinda have a feeling that at least some networks might just ask for the destination number, because that's what happens with filling the mobile carrier balance. But know there is at least one network that tried to KYC when you try to fill Steam.

It is a pun on the Bluey's breed.

Is that a kid's show?

or toys, or something

Web searches are less than clear on this subject.

Yes, kids' show that is also popular with adults.

I'm not familiar with it, apart from some pics I found via search engine.

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> x.com/ofrnxmr/status/1774141107393200385

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> x.com/ofrnxmr/status/1774141680825864371

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> this p2p pr need to be reviewed/adjusted asap, would help nodes if they are attacked in future

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> decoy selection doesnt move without R

<b​asses:matrix.org> ofrnxmr saving monero once again

<r​ucknium:monero.social> jack_ma_blabla: Do you know which researcher it was that said no to avoiding using coinbase outputs in decoy selection? It wasn't me: monero-project/research-lab #109

<r​ucknium:monero.social> IIRC the researcher who didn't like the change was koe. I supported the change and ran numbers to evaluate its effects.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Banned name

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> ofrnxmr for monero ceo

yes monero is in dire need of a new ceo

What happened to xz is slowly happening to Monero. You clearly risk a lot by keeping luigi with access to master. People without basic knowledge and practice of informational security have no place in core. Still no security audit report of his backdoored Windows machine and all of you are completely fine with that.

Your community is a fucking joke and your negligence on obvious things is slowly ruining a great project.

<j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> vterm_ dont tell me you come from btc

openwall.com/lists/oss-security/2024/03/29/4 - have a read so you cucks can finally understand how effective backdoors are implemented and nobody of your passive science believers and soymilk drinkers here would be capable of finding one.

If only RMS knew what you faggots are doing here...