basses:matrix.org: "please sign this petition" No.

321bob321:monero.social: Yes, the final countdown.

yasabi:matrix.org: "hm i'm being told CoCs are literally dictatorship and tyranny" Because they are.

Q: What is the difference between "tranny" and "tyranny"? A: "One letter."

<s​iren:kernal.eu> You don't have to worry about CoCs as long as you're not an asshat

The problem is, what qualifies as an "asshat" on a given day?

I'd much rather say, as long as your opinions are in line with the status quo, you don't have to worry about CoC(k)s.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> no one if holding you hostage in an online space. if you don't like the code of conduct for the space you can leave. if you were serious in your convictions, you could even open a competing space without a code of conduct!

<y​asabi:matrix.org> having more channels for monero strengthens the overall community moreso than staying centralized in one channel. plus you could spam slurs to your tiny, shrivelled heart's content!

<y​asabi:matrix.org> the thing about tyranny is it doesn't allow you to exit or opt out, more often than not it tries to kill you for doing so. but you'd probably know that if you had any experience with it beyond using the term hyperbolically to make yourself feel persecuted :^)

And it happens every single time that centrists and right leaning people tend to get targetted first, and the left cheers it on. Eventually it comes for the left, and all of the sudden the COCK censorship becomes a problem.

"the thing about tyranny is it doesn't allow you to exit or opt out, more often than not it tries to kill you for doing so." Let's compare: trannies will groom you into becoming one as well, or exclude you if you're lucky, or kill you if you're unlucky.

As stated earlier, the Monero community would be far better off just hosting their own Monero IRC server rather than just making a Channel as a Service.

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> tyrranical is perhaps an incorrect word to describe the system, but the correct word to describe the person who abuses authority under the pretense of "civility"

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> people are free to move to another forum or IRC server but there are moving costs and network effects associated with that

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> the type of person who can rise the ranks and secretly network on online forums to the point at which they can exercise bureaucratic power to influence public opinion is generally a "control freak" type: discord, reddit moderators for example

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> look at what happened with the BTC/BCH fork. small blockers were able to control and direct discussion, network with miners and the press, etc. They even bought out the bcash domains

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> People cannot really opt out of a chat group if the discussions that take place have an influence over them. Kicking people out of the town square is a big deal, but many do not realize that the modern town square (social media) has been privitized by special interest groups funded by advertising

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> The reason why the internet seems to be so divisive and hateful is because the compassionate half of society has checked out of the conversation and given up on free discussion. In the modern day the internet is used to cultivate "safe spaces", but it used to be that liberal types would do the opposite: use the internet to cultivate an "unsafe space" where norms could be challenged

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> It's childish to spam slurs online but it's even more childish to care

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> The reason why people dislike CoCs is because they are generally set a pretense for neurotic people to control discussion

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> i can start an IRC channel if users need a place to scream slurs into the void, but idk if that will be of any use

<y​asabi:matrix.org> abusing authority, under pretense of civility or not, is still not tyranny. tyranny is an absolute power over subjects who have no say in the matter. no one is subjecting you to this chatroom. it's your choice to be here or to be elsewhere. to confuse this with absolutism, despotism, dictatorship, etc betrays either an enormously privileged naivete on your part, or a disingenu<clipped message>

<y​asabi:matrix.org> ous motive in the discourse.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> to claim the internet is divisive and hateful because "compassionate people" - whatever the hell that means - have "given up on free discourse" is asinine unless you believe conversations should be compulsory. free discourse is not owed, it is volunteered. if a conversation necessarily involves personal attacks, bigoted language, and brigading then some people will decide that t<clipped message>

<y​asabi:matrix.org> hey'd prefer to dissociate than continue in that context. to say they are obligated to remain in the discourse is coercive. to say they have given up on free discourse is to assume this context is the only one that it is possible to freely consent to.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> CoCs can be weaponized by control freak mods, yes. there are also plenty of control freak mods who operate in spaces without CoCs. one does not cause the other. even if it did is besides the point. Libera is a platform not owned by you or I. the people who do own and operate it do so under certain conditions. to continually violate those conditions puts the presence of this c<clipped message>

<y​asabi:matrix.org> hannel at risk of being shut down by the platform owners.

remiliascarlet | As stated earlier, the Monero community would be far better off just hosting their own Monero IRC server rather than just making a Channel as a Service <- The things you're talking about overall are very exggerated, but this one I agree with. Centralization of projects on Libera bothers me.

<y​asabi:matrix.org> it also just degrades the quality of conversation. the recent backscroll is overwhelmed with brigraders trying to harass the mods into reallowing someone who was removed for repeated bad faith engagement and hostility towards the people volunteering their time to this project. it's now escalating to spamming the CCS with bullshit about it. from a neutral perspective this is ind<clipped message>

<y​asabi:matrix.org> istinguishable from a social engineering attack on Monero's communication channels.

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I agree that it degrades the quality of communication

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> it is also important to be gracious with respect to moderation given that there is no sybil resistance to this network. some "good faith" is expected from both the users and the moderators

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> >Libera is a platform not owned by you or I. the people who do own and operate it do so under certain conditions. to continually violate those conditions puts the presence of this channel at risk of being shut down by the platform owners.

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> this kind of sidesteps a lot of the implicit assumptions being made. Is-ought problem

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> >conversations should be compulsory

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> some level of conversations, in normal society are compulsory

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> Every morning I walk past a preacher, I talk to someone while waiting on a bench or on the bus, etc.

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> and yet society remains civil. it is a sybil resistance problem

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> the internet as we know it generally does not have the ability to handle spam, so the ability to blacklist is handed off to powerful, centralized intermediaries (moderators, social media networks, etc) as opposed to operating everything on a whitelist basis which is more akin to how real-life conversations work.

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> secushare has a good rand about this

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> *rant

<s​iren:kernal.eu> Monero Offtopic

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> ok sorry

<3​21bob321:monero.social> rip

<b​erlin:hackliberty.org> morsche

<b​erlin:hackliberty.org> gibt es deutsche chaträume für xmr?

berlin:hackliberty.org: ないかも

<c​trej:matrix.org> German rooms are dead

<c​trej:matrix.org> At least here on matrix

<h​ijuv:tchncs.de> Ich kenne keinen

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> kenne nur den xmr channel in dieser bitcoin gruppe auf telegram t.me/trustbtcde

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Guten morgan

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats all i got

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> was ist das? Die Deutsche monero?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like 3 years?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> =-=

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> do i like have to make a new wallet to make the sync faster? I did it before which was like 5~6 year old wallet?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it says like 500 000 remaining blocks on all devices that i am trying to sync

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and it goes down very slowly

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> mby bcs the node is set to use tor proxy?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> > monerod[852479]: 2024-04-09 10:54:17.477 W No incoming connections - check firewalls/routers allow port 18080

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well it complains about this

not having incoming connections won't matter, all connections are 2 way

it notes which way the connection started

tor is s l o w

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> i see

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> syncing from a remote node seems to be significantly faster though

is the wallet on the same machine as your node?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> no, the node is on a control server whcih provides an onion service that i am using from other device

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> (control server = highly power efficient server which is always on and used to manage power efficient tasks and send commands to other servers e.g. wakeup calls for compilation server)

obv something is restricting the speed of communication

sorry not something I can resolve

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> thanks for trying

<m​rwonderland:tchncs.de> Es gibt einen aktiven SimpleX Chat. Wenn du interessiert bist, kann ich dir gerne einen Link zukommen lassen :)

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so calculated.. it will take another 5 days for the wallet to sync with the node

<j​oiboi.crypto:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/gMtDpEqAtoiXgLfSxqSVmSiQ

<b​asses:matrix.org> best way to store seeds other than hardware wallets?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> For often offline usage or for long term backup?

<b​asses:matrix.org> long term

<b​asses:matrix.org> would also be interested for the offline usuage

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Long term storage : aliexpress.com/item/32951973665.html + Whatever leftover eprom / eeprom from scrap

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> offline usage : castrated phone (corrupted baseband firmware) + Anonero?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> rando

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> For the eeprom thing, you can get the programmer alone if you can find big old chips that fit right in the thing (from ... 486 / pentium era motherboards)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> For more recent eeproms, you need an adapter that fit the chip you are going to use

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Hence the many many option in that aliexpress listing

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Ideally you make a veracrypt image that fit the chip you get. if big enough you can backup seeds, pgp keys, password manager data files, etc, etc

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Use floppy and use b side ;)

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I think mutisig is a good way to go if you want more security

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> do like 2-of-3, and have one on your personal computer, one on an always-offline-computer, and one on a piece of paper

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> fk that

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> make a weirdos non standard format, like 3 sectors per track, 1 sector offets, no gaps (so you can stuff more), and use more tracks than normal (as much as you can with your hardware). Oh, don't even try to write the disk from a different drive after you did that, garanted self destruct of the data

<b​asses:matrix.org> is multisig similar to Shamir Secret Sharing?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, multisig is nice, can have many backups but you need X amount of backup to recover the data (so if one get one backup he won't get to steal the nero).

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I think Featherwallet is going to support nice multisig soon™️

<b​asses:matrix.org> something like github.com/Twometer/hyperbacked

<b​asses:matrix.org> there's also bs.parity.io/# if you want a web version

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> rando: yeah I think they use secret sharing in monero but I haven't read up on it

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> how do cryptocurrencies normally do it? scripting?

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> there is not really any scripting because it is a de-anonymization heuristic

<b​asses:matrix.org> I really love Shamir Secret Sharing (SSS)

<d​etherminal:matrix.org> we need to fund someone to add and audit the shamir for monero

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Thought i saw tob say something

when writing seed on paper make sure that it is written correctly

best way to verify is to actually recreate the wallet and to do so before sending xmr there

live and learn :D

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ok i can't even use any other monero node it all is in 500 000 blocks to sync and it takes ages wtf is happening

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> How are you syncing?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I did notice today tor was extremely slow for some reason.

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ok i can't even use any other monero node its all is in 500 000 blocks to sync and it takes ages wtf is happening

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> via tor

Syncing over tor is slow but it should still progress

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Took me more than a minute earlier to day from

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Press Send

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And Send transaction confirmation

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 1.5 Mbps average DL / upload failed

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye it's really slow wtf

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and it's moslty in the 0.5 Mbps range

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, I do notice when tor have hiccup when I look at my node data

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye it seems like someone figured out a way to efficiently attack the tor network

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> earlier today, tor RPC halved in like 10 minutes... sometime it recover then it tank back down

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> guess i am figuring out how I2P works so that i have a fallback network to use

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> bcs via tor today i would be syncing for around 5 days at best

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> wait that wouldn't work bcs i can't use tor node only via I2P right

<b​asses:matrix.org> niw I'm worried lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> now I'm worried lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/tghWCbDnVFsHhucjHkYhhQIH

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Normally, it over "256"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That's one of the four node I have in my "reinforced node"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Normally, all four are +- at 256...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Since a week, none are at 256, and most of them over "128"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That image is from the worst one

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Normally, it over "256"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That's one of the four node I have in my "reinforced node"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Normally, all four are +- at 256...

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Since a week, none are at 256, and most of them hover "128"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> That image is from the worst one

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> brutal

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> My tor can barely handle IRC connection atm

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Good to know that I did not fsck something on my node end

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Sad to know that tor is heavily under attack or something real fishy

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But it'

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> it's been since over a week so far. Today was worst day I think

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> is I2P more sybil resistant?

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I could never get I2P to work

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Look what appening since april

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Today got worst dip lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/NNMRFmvFofpnLontiUCYRlfE

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> what the tor DDoS?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> lokinet is supposed to be sybil resistant

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, got have something wrong, ddos or something

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> lokinet has some associated crypto though doesn't it?

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I mean cryptocurrency

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> torproject doesn't seem to be aware about it either

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> yep they use monero fork OXEN to manage the sybil attacks

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> A week ago I did notice someting wrong in the atlantic routing or sometime (that did affect mostly tor because it "hop" all around and can cross the drink more than one time.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> But connection between me and some location on the other side of the earth where heavily affected

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I don't really trust cryptocurrency-as-sybil-resistance to network things

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> could be related or no

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> i just dont know how that works

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Didnt tor put 2x guards to stop spam

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> also there is a problem because cryptocurrencies have to sync data across the whole network, and that's not a desirable quality of computer networks that are divisible

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> sorry if this sounds dumb

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> and the problem with mixnets for messaging (e.g. tor, i2p) is that you need trustworthy proxies that don't log

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> tor ppl apparently think that it's a problem with tor guard and suggested to get a new one

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> so the user-proxy relation should be clearly defined somewhere, not just implicitly defined through some sybil-resistance mechanism

<b​asses:matrix.org> PoW too

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> also a lot of these sort of cryptocurrency-incentivied mesh networks end up using trusted computing which breaks

<3​21bob321:monero.social> I thought it was beta

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> wiped state and it's better now around 5mbps

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ~500K -> 400K blocks already

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Your still syncing?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> syncing ~2000 per minute

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it's still slow af

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> 7hs.com/s/vhq6pjor.pdf#subsection.8.3

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> this is weird

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> it is one of those systems where they just go "how do we trustlessly prove something occurs in real life? just make it proof of stake, stakers never lie, therefore it's solved!"

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> mempool did fill with a bunch of 146+/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/CWHGAikCftCbmfccDVWQhyPn

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/TtXghRRjXjQHJzFQJLwsbPsR

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> thats wierd

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 146+/2?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 146/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 147/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 148/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 149/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 150/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 151/2

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 152/2....

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> meaning

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Not related to your problem

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> just big susy transaction with a lot of input

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> context?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> hmm i see O.o

when did this start?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 21:56 UTC

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…oad/xmr.mx/hUSEGnukPTgdXMacqSTPCxIE

these large input transactions show up from time to time, should be gone in a couple hours

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Mempool spammed again

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Who let ofrn out

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Cheap spammer blocking legit txs keeping block size limited

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Was this normal preflood?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Does not look like normal flood

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Because if you where to flood, why would you destroy your ammunitions?

after a couple rounds they would run out of inputs

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> hmm 21:56 that's around when i got my wallet to try to sync

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> They are filling blocks for 0.025 xmr

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Legit txs stay pending

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Combine and spilt again ?

<5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> that can't be my fault right

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> could be.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> now we are just back to speculation

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> With monero it’s always speculation

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I should make an IRC bot that just scans for anomalies in the mempool and blockchain

<b​asses:matrix.org> when some retard spam networks, that means it will take longer to sync blocks?

<b​asses:matrix.org> for wallets

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> ok, the high fee 146+/2 passed.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Now normal TX resume flowing, I think

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> only low fees 146+/2 left

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> 80000*20/150 = 10k+ txs /4 = 2500 blocks

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> 80k spam txs outputs for 20 days , 150 inputs for blocking txs

basses: fuller blocks -> longer verification time each block -> slower sync

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> All possible due to cheap gas

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> We don't have scam gas here! Only fees!

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Esg compliant

<b​asses:matrix.org> hmm

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> we are going to get another bunch of higher fee 146+/2

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Binance can finally say network congestion

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> ~20 block of extreme constipation expected

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Sad they don’t have it anymore lol

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> heu, 10, not 20, sorry

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> I expect a few days of constipation

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> I think the "network congestion" on binance and other exchanges just meant that they had to move funds from a cold wallet

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> probably involving mutlisig

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Nobody knows, it usually was followed by market dumping

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> say what you will about the scammyness of exchanges, they generally have better security practices these days

<n​obfg9000:matrix.org> They probably don't keep that much crypto on live exchange machines

<d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Xmr network is actually congested

just pay a higher fee level

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Systemctl stop mempool