<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Size grows with usage

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> rate of size growth increases with adoption*

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> While the growth of drives can be somewhat predictable, the math on "how fast will the blockchain grow" can change quickly based on events

<t​hedragon44:matrix.org> Just to add context, I ask/share as I noticed a number of very large orders appear recently, and the owner seems to have gone radio silent since 🤔

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> That’s what she said

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> We can see the rate of change of growth and compare it to rate of change of average consumer laptop growth.

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Average consumer laptop hard drive size.

<s​nowman:tetaneutral.net> Phones are taking over though. They’re probably a better metric for comparison.

<p​reland:monero.social> Do you know if this would still hold true if the zk proof thingy becomes real (issue #110 on the Monero GitHub)

<h​orixon:monero.social> where can i verify outproof online?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> xmrchain.net?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Only the rate of growth decreases, not the fact usage causes growth.

<p​reland:monero.social> Hmm

<p​reland:monero.social> I guess the next questions would be:

<p​reland:monero.social> 1. What would a rough estimate of what the current blockchain size would decrease down to?

<p​reland:monero.social> 2. How does the rate of growth change relative to transaction growth (ie how many transactions to make 1GB of blockchain storage)

<p​reland:monero.social> 3. Would it ever be possible to prune older transaction data, or do things become too interconnected? (IE in the year 2 billion when the blockchain requires an entire planet computer to store all the data, what is their next move?)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 1. The blockchain wont shrink

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 2. i dont know the answer to this one

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> 3. short answer: yes

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 100m outputs which can be minimized to 64 bytes + ~33 bytes of wallet data? So ~10 GB.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 1 GB / 97b?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Older transaction proofs, yet not data.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> ofrnxmr: We can shrink the existing blockchain.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> but do we want to ?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'd also say the short answer re: pruning is no, not yes. The ability to shrink the blockchain 10x doesn't mean we can delete it entirely.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> SyntheticBird: yes

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> then what are we waiting for

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> If we can replace all existing Bulletproofs with a single Nova proof which folds in all Bulletptoofs, why wouldn't we?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Someone to develop an instance of Nova, build the necessary circuit, audit it to our standards, do the compute on it, and update the sync process to use the new proof?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> sounds simple

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> And that only accelerates sync unless you do it for all our new cryptography, have that audited (which pulls in much more scrutiny) and then define some form of a prover committee to do it on data in real time

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Presumably, miners would fold proofs from the mempool which would I crease miner burden and TX latency

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Yeah, sure, 6 months of straight dev and half a mil to a mil in audits, simple enough.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> *for a prototype of the proof

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It's several times more work than the FCMP effort.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Sure, it's the future of scaling. Emphasis on "future".

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yeah I see thanks for the heads-up

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> the team working on this would probably be depressed after that

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The question was what would the blockchain decrease to. Fcmp isnt going to shrink the blockchain afaik(?)

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> I wasnt saying it was impossible tk decrease the size of the blockchain file, i was responding in context to the question of usage growth

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> The question was on how recursive ZK proofs would scale Monero. The question was not on how FCMPs affect Monero.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> FCMP is issue #100, they cited #110

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Oh whoops

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> All good, simple mistake

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I just wanted to be clear the fact the existing blockchain wasn't designed for this (and isn't amenable for this) doesn't mean it can't still be shoved through to the future

<y​asabi:matrix.org> just put fcmp++ on mimblewimble, bam shrinkable monero

<y​asabi:matrix.org> 3 months dev work if we surround them with suicide nets

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> wait... isn't the fundamental issue with mimblewimble being both sender and receiver be online at the time of the transaction? or, is it possible without both of them being online?

<y​asabi:matrix.org> depends on how its implemented, a "pure" MW has no addresses so yes it requires interactive tx construction, tho technically it can be done async

<y​asabi:matrix.org> but other MW impls add addresses back tho i believe that cutthrough chain shrinking won't work in that case

<s​tarlingfarchecker:monero.social> Are there any vpns that accept monero AND has port forwarding capabilities.

<s​tarlingfarchecker:monero.social> I would love to contribute to the high seas

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> i think azirevpn does that

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> but i could be wrong

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yea they do it

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…owhere.moe/NChOxzkdqvSyuPiWpjeudMAp

<n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> azirevpn.com/apps

<k​k717353ic3n483r:nowhere.moe> Airvpn does allow port forwarding of 5 ports and rakes monero

<k​k717353ic3n483r:nowhere.moe> Airvpn.org

<k​k717353ic3n483r:nowhere.moe> airvpn.org