<p​rivacyx:monero.social> So its not btcs peeps who made some good gains moving over to xmr?

<e​longated:matrix.org> No

<e​longated:matrix.org> No, btc peeps would buy meme coins

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> True i cant wrap head around why it pumped up so quickly. I took advantage of the pump and paid for whole year of vpn subscription

maybe someone noticed that other altcoins had pumped and monero had not, and thought they could make money pumping it

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> My personal hypothesis is that the Bitcoin bullrun is over since it won't go to 100k, so people go to altcoins instead and XMR is one of the only top 50 that hasn't pumped yet, so it might seem like a good gamble.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> But since it's speculation money that won't stay it'll deflate back to the natural price based on supply and demand. As long as the daily transaction (adoption) doesn't go up I don't see the actual price of Monero raising.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Daily transactions and daily price has been stable for years after all.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> But since it's speculation money that won't stay it'll deflate back to the natural price based on supply and demand. As long as the daily transaction (adoption) doesn't go up I don't see the actual price of Monero rising.

<m​odul8:matrix.org> after 0 talk at crypto at work. the other day workmate said have you been following cryptp market. yeah its crazy. pitty the only coin i care about doesnt pump is because its private and its delisted everywhere and i dont bother recommending anything to anyone cos its all bullshit.. *a few hours later* fucker pumps.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i think the same

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this is why we didnt pump / dumped in the beginning while btc went up

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> people selling XMR for BTC

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> then once they see it cant make it past 100k, even with the saylor ponzi at full blast, they went back into XMR with their gains

at least monero will never pump as hard as the other coins, even if it too goes up occasionally

never say never!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> this could go so much higher once we have serai

Its just that people have not realized that monero is closest in resemblance to what real money was supposed to be..

Maybe one day they will

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/ChrXXCjrCZrPvvuZtmtBISGA

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> all of these are kyc only right?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ogre only had 4.5 million in volume across btc and xmr

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ogre only had 4.5 million in volume across btc and usdt

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i looked at the books during the pump and that shit empty

more or less yes, at least the first 4 are!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the r/xmrtrader guys who kept talking about coins running out are probably on to something

maybe! or guys not selling

have a small ridiculously high sell order on ogre!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its not unlikely to get hit

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> one big marketorder on ogre can wipe the orderbook clean

Yep! Its for speculative purposes.

<o​we_addams:matrix.org> It's pretty interesting idea. Do you think many people will start using Monero after this pump?

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> No. They have no reason to.

Governments and regulators dont want to touch anything "untraceable"

Cause they think folks will evade taxes that way

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Convenience is king.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> 95% of people don't care if their clothes and electronics are made in a slave shop in an enemy state then sold to them via a gigacorpo that will spy on them and sell their data.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> If it's convenient and doesn't affect them directly, people will keep doing so.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> If they have no real reason to use Monero, they won't.

That number will reduce with time

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Why would it?

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> I don't expect Monero to grow significantly, because I don't expect privacy to be important enough for people to forgo convenience.

So why do you use Monero?

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Things might change if states become more tyrannical and the fiat system becomes too inconvenient for people to use, but we're not there.

Yep! thats why

A couple of Governments are slowly becoming that way...

Controlling every little aspect of their citizens...

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Me personally? I'm both a privacy enthusiast, a tech enthusiast, and I used to buy some stuff that was only bought with Monero

I like the Privacy part

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> I always tell my wife that she doesn't really want Monero to grow very big, because if it does it means things are really bad in real life

Cause once some right dude with crypto realizes that anyone can figure out how much they hold by just revealing their public address,

they might start rethinking what they want public

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> People have been saying that for years and the reality is that no one cares.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> We've been able to see the Bitcoin wallets of everyone for a long time and no one cares.

Yes but maybe you are in a secure country.

So the point you make to you wife is very real..

In some places, people shoot you for less that $1000

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> I've been an annoying friend and forcing my friends to make a Monero wallet for me to pay for my share or dinner or vice versa, they do it to humor me and they actually like the privacy part but they call it too bothersome to actually use it and go back to Venmo or Revolut each other because it's easier and they can spend the fiat on everything.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Sadly, people that have nothing to hide don't care about hiding stuff.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Well yeah, but everyone knows you're rich when you have rich clothes, cars, watches, phones, houses, and everything is fine as well.

we might not live long enough to see its usefulness but still it matters

Just the same way Satoshi started btc

governments don't want to let people have financial privacy, so they ban monero and restrict the use of cash and most people just accept it

People said something similar...

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> I don't need to see the BTC wallet of a dude to know he's rich if I see his luxury car. I could also just steal his car or threaten him into going to an ATM. It's not different.

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> My belief is that Monero hasn't grown in years (no increase in daily transactions) because it has already filled its niche.

Of course you are right!

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Now, maybe the niche itself will grow in the future, but I don't believe Monero will be used outside of it.

Change is always a good thing....

until its not..

Smart kids in the future will figure something out....

<m​ark:chat.nicecrew.digital> Sure. They'll have to if the state starts to force everyone to abandon bank bills and just use apps to pay everywhere, like Paypay in China.

A buddy of mine back then 10 years ago was doing a Financial thesis on btc and told me about it. I never cared then.

Anyway my point is that the next 10 years will be something totally different from now.

<p​rivacyx:monero.social> The problem is the general public have no idea about privacy how government uses our data to control us etc.. but slowly this privacy education is starting to spread this will then trickle down to usage of monero etc.. its a long term project but we need to have the infrastructure in place for when people will reach out use monero etc..

Surprise, surprise, now with the bad, bad Chinese breathing down their neck, the FBI wants encryption:

A glitch in the Matrix, perhaps? :)

Do they urge to use the "right" encryption that sends the key out to the "right" people?

Well, the Chinese probably entered through such officially mandated backdoors in the first place, so who in their right mind would ask "More such backdoors please"

At least people with a few working brain cells left would probably scratch their heads ...

Matrix, hehe)

us: bans encryption

china: spies on us

us: suprised pikachu

Not sure they can ban it even if they wanted lol

*ban it if they wanted

not a complete ban but they have placed restrictions on it before and they suggest new restrictions now and then

Modern fairy tale No 37: Government mandated backdoors are safe and only get used under strictly controlled circumstances, only with permit from a judge

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah or when some group of teenage hackers make emergency information requests to facebook

Or if the info is just bought.

<p​reland:monero.social> Serious question: has anyone looked into how Monero could keep running in the case of an internet failure? (This doesn’t just include the internet completely dying because of a catastrophe; it also includes critical functions of the network being suppressed by ISPs or other threat actors)

<p​reland:monero.social> Because even in the case of a temporary failure or blockade for portions of the network, if the failure occurred for long enough it would almost certainly cause the network to fragment beyond failure if different chains were being added to during said failure

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> ISPs get rekt by encrypted node traffic

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you can in theory make traffic look like regular internet traffic

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> wasnt necessary so far because if running a node is not allowed where you are, you likely would use them over tor.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> surviving and recovering from such an event is exactly what pow blockchains were designed for

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> worst case, the portion of the network that got cut off gets deeply reorged

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> in theory there is even an incentive for miners to get in on that splintered network

Yeah, good thing Tor bridges are also evolving, like with Webtunnel!

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if you are the only miner with access to both splits, you can mine the transactions nobody else can see

<p​reland:monero.social> Thank goodness ISPs can’t refuse to allow encrypted communications

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and in the end the longest chain wins

<p​reland:monero.social> What happens to the shorter chain?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> gets dropped

preland, and thank goodness for the multitude of protocols that allow mimicking a normal TLS connection!

<p​reland:monero.social> And what happens to the transactions that are unique to it? Do they get dropped?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> correct.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> its not great

<p​reland:monero.social> And if the shorter chain doesn’t want them dropped…..hard fork time

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> but it works and so far none of these horror scenarios have happened in any crypto

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> yeah

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> or

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you have someone in the isolated network re-broadcasting transactions onto the non-isolated one

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> then they get mined on both chains

<p​reland:monero.social> I guess my main question would be this then: is it even worth it to try to plan for a scenario where Monero is effectively blacklisted from the internet?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> and when the short chain gets dropped, the transactions are still recorded

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> not right now

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the internet is still way too open

HOW would you blacklist Monero?

Is the node traffic that recognizable? And even if it is - it would run over Tor, or over VLESS/XTLS/whatever

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> as long as i connect to russian peers while torrenting, the internet is free enough for at least 1 connection to make it through

<p​reland:monero.social> Anything that could be vague or hiding data gets either backdoored or explicitly banned (guilty until proven innocent at best)

<p​reland:monero.social> See: ameteur radio in the US

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes its "that recognizable"

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> you only need 1 person/node to link both networks and relay transactions

Guilty until proven innocent? Used to that status.

preland, amateur radio is explicitly prohibited encryption though, while the Internet is overwhelmingly encrypted and in a current landscape cannot go back.

<p​reland:monero.social> I guess

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the S&P 500 would tank so hard if you tried to remove internet encryption at scale

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the world can not go back

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> at least for now

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i can see them go "ok online banking is encrypted but only when the bank registered their app with the backdoor department"

Yeah, exactly.

<p​reland:monero.social> Kazakhstan?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to protect the children & fight terrorists

What I am afraid of is indeed disallowing everything they cannot decrypt, but that would require cutting off everyone who doesn't use the government-controlled CA, which even they are not willing to do because it would break WAY too much.

<p​reland:monero.social> I mean that’s kinda why they blocked it in ameteur radio, “because it would make law enforcement’s job harder”

<p​reland:monero.social> Also something about interference, but if that was the issue they could’ve just disallowed that (which they did)

In amateur radio I guess it is also a cultural thing - a lot of amateurs do want to be able to communicate with everybody and not get locked out of an encrypted channel. But yeah, probably mostly law enforcement.

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> with radio you have limited amounts of channels, right?

<b​asses:matrix.org> preland good discussion about this topic

<b​asses:matrix.org> .

<e​longated:matrix.org> We need traffic shaping like BitTorrent clients do

<h​bs:matrix.org> yes, but even for high density comms like FT8 you cannot use any form of encryption.

That's actually the reason why I am not into amateur radio anymore, another being prohibited pseudonymity. Realized it did not fit my newer special interests.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Iptables -t FORWARD --dport 18080 -j DROP (isp magic one-liner)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Why doing dpe and ho nooooo, its encrypted!!!

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just block 1808*. If they want to block monero, its what they are going to do.

It's just a default port number, you can change it in the command line

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, nodes should really do more of that.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Or node code should do automatic.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Use 18080 and an extra random port number or something like that

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Afaik bitorrent now use random number especially because ISP twarting them.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Its up to the operator to see what port it is and unblock it / route it

My ISP does not thwart Bittorrent... But only on download! The upload is slow as balls!!

I hope this is just me not being as needed as a peer though, because I have seen decent upload speeds a while ago.

the isp mafia has been 'traffic shapping' bittorrent for the past 20 years

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Usenet always win

Usenet is paid tho