<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> It would be good if you could see how many transactions there were in block X or Y.

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> So when you tap on the block icon on moneroconsensus.info you can see detailed information about the block, for example the number of transactions in it.

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> It would be good if you could see how many transactions there were in block X or Y.

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> So when you tap on the block icon on moneroconsensus.info you can see detailed information about the block, for example the number of transactions in a block.

<b​lurt4949:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/lDpFonHPkCdGEwJiECcHHSuv

<f​ijxu:nadeko.net> where do you see that?

fijxu what is blurt4949 uploading

<b​lurt4949:matrix.org> miningpoolstats.stream/monero

we IRC users cannot view attachments

<b​lurt4949:matrix.org> Cindy: as of about 10 minutes ago, 51/100 of the most recent blocks were mined by "unknown" pools (qubic)

ah i see

isnt that just a rumor? how can you tell with a privacy coin?

you can tell what pool mined a block

i'm calling crap until blocks get orphaned

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> jetski reports ~36% on their pool atm explorer.jetskipool.ai/xmr-tracker.html

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> c3pool API seems to have dumped, putting extra hash into unknown on miningpoolstats.stream/monero

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I like jetski ui. Need to rip it off for my ui shit

tbh

qubic was a well-needed push to completely deprecate giant mining pools

maybe in the next hard-fork, we can lol

so qubic a new russian botnet? havent heard of  it until 3 days ago

i think we've been turning too much of a blind eye towards the problem of centralized mining

should i just run a miner despite it not being profitable? i think maybe I could rent a bare metal server to mine xmr

sure!

do you all think monero will hard fork?

or qubic will die

BETS ON

honestly even if qubic fails, a hard fork might be imminent to at least estalish more restrictions on giant centralized pools

doesnt matter to much for me. its meant as an exchange of value not a store of wealth like bitccoin

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> every stakeholder needs to mine or pay for honest mining for network security in a p2p project like this, relative to the stake they hold. This became a problem solely due to chronic under-investment in mining by stakeholders who are basically freeriding, and now they've found out that a huge amount of hashrate is malicious. That's a big whoops. Security budget is less than 1% <clipped message>

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> of market cap via emission, and it needs to probably be double that investment in security to maintain against current threat actors, which means on average, each stakeholder would need to chip in about 1% of their stake to secure it properly with PoW. It's insurance; we failed to buy enough of it for appropriate levels of indemnification.

we don't need more mining

we need more rules to be established to put giant centralized pools at a major disadvantage

do you all have a favourite mining pool? and back up ones?

p2pool

that should be the only realistic choice

Guest95: exchange of value also requires store of wealth

otherwise, what are you exchanging

what separates bitcoin from monero users  is that many understand monero is more fungible and will in the long term seen as a token rather than a speculative bitcoin asset

but i dont deny monero will be highly valued some day if not other related privacy coins

we at least need to take the problem of mass consolidation of hashpower under one person's control seriously

ideally a coin and its energy consumption should be profitable and incentivized to run on anyones machine including the family and friends idle processors and other machines. Energy costs are just too ridiculous right now

well yeah

that's p2pool + xmrig

i would still mine locally at loss if I knew monero would be valued some day

which is what im considering

but the pool mining helps spread the risk right?

yes

dont want to create another qubic

we have p2pool which is a distributed pool

the other ones are centralized pools

including qubic

we just need some way to disincentivize centralized pool mining at such a scale

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Monero, with a central miner, is not useful for its stated purpose; a single element, in this case Qubic, would effectively own the blockchain if they accumulate ~50% in a selfish mining strategy, this is a single point of failure that if reached, means you have a single entity to go after by any entity like FinCen. It also means anyone who mined for Qubic is also easily exposed <clipped message>

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> to RICO charges. Monero would be no better than E-gold was, and just as vulnerable legally, with the added feature of transaction obfuscation for stacking money laundering charges.

qubic will not actually own the blockchain for long

monero can hard-fork with new rules

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> *That* is the real world incentive against centralized mining and pools

and guess what, when that happens

they immediately die off

i know that some privacy coins like Firo allow mining on gpus while still being asic resistant. Maybe allowing mining on more devices can help?

monero can be mined on GPUs

but it's much less efficient

is everyone here maxi's or do they consider other coins?

im always open but monero seems the safest despite the hardship

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Monero can hard fork, but the problem is not as easy to solve with software as you might like to believe. Multi-PoW or changing PoW does not defend against it. Signing blocks adds some cost for collusion but "solo" miners can still collude off chain, etc. It's not a quick fix without introduction centralization like PoS validators or just becoming a vassal to another bigger fish

how do you think randomX was invented

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> It is more desirable to defend your value with a decentralized mining approach, which is best served by CPU mining for hardware availability, a great choice with RandomX

tevador suggested upping the bandwidth requirements of mining to disincentivize centralized pools

like 1 MB/day/miner

<b​asses:matrix.org> >G​uest95

<b​asses:matrix.org> Monero is used because of it privacy by default features

to 3 GB/day/miner

<b​asses:matrix.org> no coins offer that

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> but, the stakeholders also need to invest appropriately in network security with the right amount of hash rate

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> (relative to market cap)

we already have decentralized mining

when you talk about p2pool

but of course, just like how we've been hard forking to get rid of ASIC miners

we can hard fork to get rid of giant centralized pools

with more restrictions, more disadvantages

until they become mostly extinct and unreasonable to manage

m-relay many coins do not offer privacy by default but I'm starting like the Firo currency and its technical feats solving the trustless setups plagued by most Snark protocols, oddly enough suffered a 51% attack similar to Monero almost faces now.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Firo has masternodes

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> there's not really a magic switch for that that you can just drop in with a hard fork that I know of or have seen proposed, basically you trade one type of centralization for another in lieu of under-investment in network securing hardware, it's a bad set of options to avoid a (voluntary) ~1% additional financial overhead to secure your fully decentralized privacy coin

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> It could be that 1% is enough to push up against the liquidity constraints of Monero, that I'm not sure of, they make no small effort of containing the nexus with the greater financial system of course with KYC-AML garbage

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> after all that is a ~$36 mil/year throughput on additional security that has to pas through to energy and hardware costs

reading more about Masternodes, it seems if monero gets forked into a PoS it could look like Firo's chainlock masternode setup.  Seems more like ideological differences leading to different design. The issue of consensus may never be solved. Threat actors are just too resourceful or organized.

hope monero doesnt give in too easily

<m​odul8:matrix.org> what if we brought back gpus with a gpu mining algorithm as well as randomx for cpus? *hides*

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Just change mining payouts to be inline when monero bounties get paided out

<l​etscage.com:matrix.org> hey

<l​etscage.com:matrix.org> I was on vacation just came back

<l​etscage.com:matrix.org> there's been some stuff going around 51% attack lately right ?

<l​etscage.com:matrix.org> where can I read about this ?

probably this: monero-project/research-lab #136

rucknium: thanks for the clarification and further explanation.

<k​ufecure:xmr.se> what does the community suggest to do? CFB planned to 51% attack monero again on August 11

again?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> will people stop giving this whining bitch the attention he craves

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> he is out of money

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> he has been fud

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> he has never represented a threat to monero

<k​ufecure:xmr.se> Ye. again. He wrote on twitter

how can you do something again that you have never done before?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> someone posted a screenshot of them having 51% for a short while

<e​ddie:oblak.be> but I don't know how bad it was

it was not accurate as laready explained b4

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > someone

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> who

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> > screenshot

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> .

<e​ddie:oblak.be> this one

another pool was included in that unknown because their API was down

<e​ddie:oblak.be> must have only been temporary

eddie, I believe you were their wen it was explained

<e​ddie:oblak.be> no I wasn't

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> we still love you eddie

ok

imagine trying to remember everything wen you are 80yo

I try

<e​ddie:oblak.be> how do you know?

from the people that reported it

<e​ddie:oblak.be> anyway my point is I can understand why kufecure is concerned

<e​ddie:oblak.be> even though the real 51% attack hasn't happened

don't believe everything you read and only half of what you see

<e​ddie:oblak.be> A questions about these mining rigs for rent. When they're not rented out, there' still mining right?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> So would in theory the hashrate be just the same for the network, just ownership temp changes?

the ones available are shown as not mining

<k​ufecure:xmr.se> U r too rude. I am ming on p2pool to protect the monero network. What are you doing?

talking to me? IRC can't see quotes

I am also mining

recently turned on my shitty old rigs as well

it is summer afterall and Cat is not in need of heat

<b​asses:matrix.org> you know what he does?

who is he

<b​asses:matrix.org> working on github.com/Cuprate/cuprate

<b​asses:matrix.org> also it is not rude when like this topic is brought every single day

<s​bt:nope.chat> How is that even possible? If I recall it, pools have no mandatory requirement of identifying themselves. They can just stop adding their pool ID in the block metadata.

<k​ufecure:xmr.se> Sorry thanks for your service

basses aka rando is that link kufecure

soon we will have a proper matrix irc bridge :)

whether or not it is mandatory the reality is that virtually all, if not all, the pools now are know

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> np tho i'm not the most entitled dev, you should rather thx the others. also sorry im effectively being rude because as rando said, this is coming every single day. Didn't meant to offend you

<e​ddie:oblak.be> it shows that people care. Can be annoying, but I see it as something positive overall

<s​bt:nope.chat> Just like how Linus screams at everyone. He cares.

Mr bird was that cup rate link for you?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I see it negative overall. Because you just have to dig like 10 minutes on twitter to realize what type of person is CfB and how he is full bullshitting everytime. Seeing everyone reacting like that just show how someone with little influence can cause a panic

<e​ddie:oblak.be> no one was screaming afaik

<s​bt:nope.chat> Based.

<s​bt:nope.chat> I know. I was just talking about linus.

<b​asses:matrix.org> remember the Dero thingy? all they got is chain deanon after talking crap for few days

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> i remember, but im not sure to see the point

I really need to be working rn lol

<b​asses:matrix.org> misinfo about monero from chatgpt

i'm not mining :(

nioc: you mean that qubic was taking credit for some other pool because their API was broken?

Cindy is gone :(

I believe it was from miningpoolstats

back to cleaning up people's sloppy work lol

I would rather be shitposting

Cindy, you have (4) unread messages in #monero Follow the link to view libera.monerologs.net/monero/20250810#c552652 [unsubscribe]

aww

but it was a

more-intentional gone, cause i was putting down my monero hat and leaving in shame

up until my ISP made it unintentional

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> sech1 posted this last night, showing they have ~35%: paste.debian.net/1390657 This is enough hash rate to earn a positive ROI using intermittent selfish mining, explained here: kevinnegy.github.io/Selfish%20Mining%20Re-Examined.pdf . That means the attack can continue indefinitely, at a small relative profit to honest miners, as long as miners don't leave his p<clipped message>

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> ool and push it below attack profitability. The only defense against this that maintains the same level of long term decentralization we have today, is stakeholders buying and operating a larger quantity of honest hash rate.

is there some mf at my ISP pushing a button that says "kill Cindy's connection"

also btw kill-switch: that's not an attack

35% is not an attack, it's literally just mining monero

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> It's literally called an attack in the studies/papers for a reason - it breaks the incentive for decentralized mining if more than ~30% of your network is operated by an attacker who wants to achieve centralized mining, which is the case.

it's not an attack until it reaches 51%

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> tell that to the honest miners who lose more and more and more ROI to the attacker as the attack hash rate alpha (%) increases from 30% to ~50%

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> It's a snowballing disincentive to honest mining

then you can say all the big centralized pools are bad

which i will agree on you for

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> They pose the same risk, but it's not an attack until they actually attack using a selfish mining strategy. Same for the 51% attack, a pool with >51% can chose to be honest there too, but it breaks the built in incentives and requires trust that they won't perform an attack

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Currently, the ISM attack is underway and is being demonstrated in real time

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Figure 10(d) in the Selfish Mining paper linked above demonstrates the reward curve of the attack and the relative losses the honest miners (and all stakeholders that want decentralization) experience

no it's the same thing

it doesn't matter if they're not publicly strategizing

or "honest"

they're liabilities

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> it absolutely matters, it's fully explained in the paper. If your network has more than 30% selfish miners, the decentralization incentive of mining based on block reward is *broken*

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> it absolutely matters, it's fully explained in the paper. If your network has more than 30% selfish miners (colluding), the decentralization incentive of mining based on block reward is _broken_

collusion is harder to do without a centralized pool

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Stakeholders do and should have a vested interest in decentralization, a privacy coin without it is not a privacy coin, so there's economic incentive against selfish mining - but not algorithmically within the mining structure

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> yes

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Pow should never be more then a means to block spam attacks.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Wasting to much energy, and depending on being able to waste more energy then an opponent isn't a sound security measurement in my book.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Blocks should be formed by a trapdoor function without that waste.

wtf is a trapdoor function

a trapdoor function requires secret data to work

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> I can tell you what they aren't, and that is a solution to the byzantine general's problem that mining solves

and that means you need a centralized authority to chec if blocks are valid

because to verify, the miners have to have access to the secret data

and if the miner HAVE access

they can solve it much much easier

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Most crypto projects, and all of them that don't use some form of proof of work, "solved" the Byzantine fault tolerance the same way - by not solving it - and instead centralizing some control feature. Just use Fedbucks at that point.

proposing a trapdoor function would centralize Monero in the same way

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> its silly :)

<e​longated:matrix.org> Just become less dependent on botnets and we will be much more secure

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> No kingdom ever lasted for long relying on mercenaries for security

i'm sure botnetters do not give a shit about 51%

they just care about XMR rewards

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> By voluntary and forced agreements under network participants how resources should be allocated.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> It's secured by social contracts, not cryptography.

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> indeed. The same way fiat currency works

<e​longated:matrix.org> Or btc/ltc whatever coin they get paid on miningrentals

social contracts?

you must be joking lol

who's gonna enforce those social contracts

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> just get the monopoly on violence, boom social contract secured

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> brilliant

"if you break the rules, i will break your kneecaps"

"don't bother coming back to your house for fucking up the network >:("

let's replace cryptography with hitmen

anyone who dares attack monero, it'll be their last day

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> now that's a real proof-of-useful-work

<e​longated:matrix.org> And taint entire coin

<e​longated:matrix.org> And taint entire coin

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> It's not a singular entity and nor a singular social contract.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Police for example is one of many entities that takes part in enforcing those social contracts that relate to resource allocation.

police?

loooool

we need our own police

we need to kidnap people who fuck with the network

and do mexican cartel shit on them

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> is this selfish mining the reason monero's hash rate variability looks like the sine wave?

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> yes. specifically intermittent selfish mining, which operates as a part of difficulty adjustment

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> interesting

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> I always thought that it was because of the day-night cycle as botnets are farming the insecure office PC... but now you mention it, it sounds plausible

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> if the fluctuation was because of day-night cycle, the fluctuation would be smoother, right?

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> it would depend on the distribution of the network across the globe, but I think the hashrate you see in individual pools are varying due to mining on solar power, which also introduces a wave cycle. But riding difficulty adjustment is part of the two phase selfish mining technique as well

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> No.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> I'm stating what is. And I will from now on not engage with you, since you're either LLM or have no intention to engage on an the actual point made.

i'm not an LLM

i'm just thinking a cryptocurrency based on social contracts sounds absolutely ridiculous

because it's not a cryptocurrency at that point

it's literally just another fed currency

like the dollar or euro

if you want a currency based on social contracts, go use the dollar

if you've used the internet in the past couple decades, you'll learn nobody actually cares about social contracts

if monero even switched to using it, it would probably be even more vulnerable, from trolls or compromised individuals

<a​lexandre:uii.pt> if you want monero to have monetary value you can't be changing the rules of the game whenever you feel like it.

<a​lexandre:uii.pt> otherwise it's simply a piece of software only used as a PoC

<a​lexandre:uii.pt> unless i'm misunderstanding what is meant by "social contract"

they want to replace the cryptographic protections with social contracts (with questionable enforcement)

how is a social contract gonna stop somebody from stealing all the XMRs and dumping it before they can realize

people can realize*

i get being socialist is hip, but like, this isn't it

there is a reason why places moved from pinky-promise social contracts to legal ones where they can prison you or break your kneecaps or whatever

because it never realistically works

anyway, thank you for coming to my ted talk

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> I don't think it's selfish mining. It has been this way as long as I remember. I think the answer is people mining during the day with solar. Global population, much less solar, is not evenly distributed, so you can see the day / night cycles

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> I haven't done any modelling on it and don't really have the skills to do that robustly, but I think if you have enough geographically concentrated solar mining that the DAA has a predictable periodic wave, that might make the block orphaning ISM difficulty adjusting technique more effective if you time your intermittent phase cycle appropriately.

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> So, you might get some bump in effective return relative to the base ISM ROI scenario

<e​longated:matrix.org> Solar miners > Botnets 🤔

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> yeah, it really would rely on having a network mining node geographic concentration to exploit as a potential additional weakness, which it may be

<e​longated:matrix.org> Just mine when the machine is running

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> the shadow network of miners(tm)

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fluffy was correct

But sun make heat

is there a kickstarter for monero

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> there is one, apparently

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> I only saw it cuz of the rottenwheel-impersonating spammer

oh? what is it called

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> I forgor... wasn't too keen on remembering the address of some website that I got introduced through spam lol

ah fair

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> kuno.anne.media/fundraiser/recb

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> found the scam post LOLOLOL

this is literally the gofundme of monero

not kickstarter lool

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> oh

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> then I'm stoopid

nah it's okay

kickstarter has tiers and stuff where you get exclusive things depending on how much you donated

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> ohhh

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Thats the real rottenwheel

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> the fk?

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> real rottenwheel scamming on kuno?

man

i wish i could ask for money like that (

:(

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> mine harder. thats the only way. pump up the hashrate graph.

i'd rather kill myself 17 times than mine during a massive heatwave

This Kuno is primarily just a pun on myself, but if anyone feels generous, pity, or just would like to chip in for the sake of it, that would be greatly appreciated.

actually

i might just mine for the hell of it :P

lol

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> go to the basement, vewy cold >.<

i don't have a basement

every part of my home is hot as fuck

and i couldn't sleep

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> damn

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> sudo sleep

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> how hot was it?

i'd lay my head inside the freezer for 30 minutes at a time

104F

or something

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> HOLY

i only slept for 2 hours today

yaaay

i just really couldn't

<m​arioob:matrix.org> is a sin to stop mining. Set a CPU limit with this: "echo 2500000 | sudo tee /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu*/cpufreq/scaling_max_freq"

my CPU is at 208F

<e​ddie:oblak.be> just fired up a 2mh/s rig using rentals site, wanted to see how it works

<m​arioob:matrix.org> I keep my PCs at 50-55C in summertime and 75-80C in wintertime

i have to point my fan at my PC sometimes to cool it down lol

<s​bt:nope.chat> Bruh. Are you from middle east?

<s​bt:nope.chat> I don't know elsewhere that's so hot.

eddie I looked at renting, cost ~$500 to mine a block on avg

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> My main cpu is at 72C. Running at full bore

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 19KH/s

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And ambiant outside is 35

sbt: middle east? relaaax guy, i'm just your average monero user, take a rest

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> can you xmrig it to me :3

<e​ddie:oblak.be> what do you mean with that?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I am having an issue with this rig it's not performing as expected, it complains about low difficulty

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> point the hsshes to me. xpoolje.daviduwu.ovh:3222

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :3

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> point the hashes to me. xpoolje.daviduwu.ovh:3222

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> set tht as pool, wallet emoty cuz proxy instnc

17lifers: no CFB

get your own miners :P

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> ._.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> k i will pump the stats up

<e​ddie:oblak.be> The plan was to solo pool mine with it, and play the lottery :p

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> guarunteed xmr >

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :3

add some hashrate to p2pool mini pls

bcz p2pool mini rarely finds blocks

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> no k

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> too large for mini, above >500kh

need more blocks for p2pool mini 😇

is it bad? if too large

yes

I mean, what are the cons if you join with 500kh+

bot insisting tho

more HR to p2pool mini means smaller payout when you do hit

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I would like to but if there's a difficulty mismatch the rig underperforms

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I'm testing with various pools

you will get the same in the long run whether nono, mini or main

yes some rented rigs perform worse than advertised

<e​ddie:oblak.be> yeah but the one I am using I think it's more my fault at the moment

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I just switched to a moneroocean pool with correct share difficulty and this seem to work much much better then at first

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Imo rental is scam.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I did rent a few extra MH lask weekend just so the other asshole dont rent the same units

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> I barely made half back lol

<m​onero.arbo:matrix.org> pretty sure the main purpose (when not attacking Monero) is money laundering

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I agree it feels like a scam :D

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeas, was thinking the same actually.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> The only way I see it being profitable is when you solo mine and are lucky to find blocks

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> thats the smartest way ever

nioc, yeah I know, but average effort for p2pool mini is >100%, but for main chain and even nano have <100% average effort

maybe I just switch to nano

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> its always profitable when wallet number go up

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :33

dice don't have a memory

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Not when you spend monero to rent mine monero

oh nevermind about my message, nano block found frequency is 5 days :-) just will stay on mini I guess

what's the block reward?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> zero point six xmr

on p2pool? depending on the pool share % (PPLNS window)

yes zero point six zmr + tx fees

0.6 XMR is a lot of moneis

0.6 XMR every 2 minutes (theoretically)

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> i need to get that so i can NEET away

0.6 xmr every 5 days?

0.6 XMR every couple year

I can buy so much cheetos on 0.6 XMR

<e​ddie:oblak.be> no every 2 minutes

p2pool nano average 0.6 every 5 days yes

ruidx: i could buy an AC for uhhh

5 blocks

or so

what is AC?

air conditioner

oh yeah, you need that one

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Just open botton window in front of house, first floor

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> And open top window in back of house, second floor

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Air current that help bringing the temperature down execute, 0 kwh wasted in work that can be free!

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> sleep during day, wake up at night like a true wolf and open the windows wiide

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> vewy chilly >.<

<t​esttank:matrix.org> x.com/jack55750/status/1954302894586638589?s=46 Vitalik is a closeted Monero bro

<t​esttank:matrix.org> Curios to see how the regulators react

<e​ddie:oblak.be> this reply *Probably necessary for max government/institutional adoption*

<e​ddie:oblak.be> lol

<m​ilas900:matrix.org> Gf m

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> I mean that that there are agreements of resource allocation, and that is what gives monero its security. For example society is currently structured in a way that gives NSA lots if resources, billionaires lots of resources and so on. Till now they agreed to not take on a proper 51% attack, and only that agreement is currently what protects monero. Only these social agreements protect monero.

ideally you shouldn't need agreements

do you think monero relies on agreements with ASIC makers to NOT make commercially-sold ASICs of their algorithm on the market?

i don't think there was any agreement to not take on a 51% attack, centralized pools have been one of monero's issues to solve for a long time

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> No.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> I'm stating what is. And I will from now on not engage with you, since you're either LLM or have no intention to engage on an the actual point made.

.... you said that before

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Earlier post directed to you.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> "No.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> I'm stating what is. And I will from now on not engage with you, since you're either LLM or have no intention to engage on an the actual point made."

you don't have to keep repeating :P

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> maybe you hallucinated it, LLM! haha

you sound like an LLM yourself

again, this is a public chat, i can respond to your claims whenever i want

but you don't have to respond to me

neverthless copy and pasting the same message

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> Not attacking Monero is not really based on the elite just agreeing not to quash us like a bug though. One, it's insignificant in size, we can't even afford to buy even a few Patriot missile batteries for instance. Two, attacking small groups in such a fashion just scatters the seeds, like trying to kill weeds by plowing a field, you spread rhizomes everywhere - the unknown unkn<clipped message>

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> owns are a risk that is often better managed when you have a stable undisturbed state in certain areas

kill-switch, i remember you talking about stakeholders and stuff

whoops, i sent that at the same time

there are governmental entities interested in seeing us gone, like the EU though

i don't think we can rely on the agreements of the elites even if we had one

our values go against what they desire

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> But you just made arguments why they'd agree to not attack for now.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> I'm saying if they wanted, they can easily do 51% because the network security of monero is not based on cryptography but social agreements.

social agreements are such a fragile thing to rely on, as qubic has shown

<k​ill-switch:matrix.org> an agreement has a party and counterparties, a move not made in such fashion is just risk management, like not pulling a tigers tail. There's no agreement with the tiger and a whole tribe, just some common sense self preservation instinct. We host the Darwin Awards to celebrate that there is in fact no agreement and people can still do nutty stuff :)

exactly, kill-switch :P

if it isn't qubic, it'll be someone with much more resources to better perform the attack

such attacks also happen in tor too

in essence, there is no agreements and there are people constantly trying to attack these kinds of protocols and platforms

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> My point is that it depends on human decision and interaction and not cryptography.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> For the better or the worse.

overcentralization should be considered a issue regardless, holding social contracts over that makes the whole thing more fragile to human aspects

and i guess, monero more weaker

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> That's what I'm saying 🎉

oooh, so you WERE saying that

okay now it doesn't seem more ridiculous than i thought it was lol

sorry for pissing you off several times lol

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Is this what an LLM would say? 🤔😁

hey

if you ask kindly

i'll give you a recipe to make an ice cream cake