somehow by pure luck i think i have just enough monero for a deposit wow

deposit for what

havenoreto

ah

has anyone actually gotten actual xmrs from there?

what is the deposit amount for havenoreto?

i thought they got rid of the deposit amount of buying XMR

depends on offer

or are you selling XMR?

there are offers without deposit even

no, buying Cindy

ah

i remember localmonero was so good... so easy to get xmr via that

they have gotten rid of deposits for buying XMR though

of course, i have some contacts that sold me some xmr here and there... but i want to try it without that

just like i downloaded haveno, monero wallet, elektrum wallet

Cindy: who localmonero or haveno?

haveno

haveno has not gotten rid of deposits to the best of my knowledge

but they did make it optional at least

if i remember

for buying XMR

in im running haveno-v1.2.0-linux-x86_64.AppImage

Cindy: yes, you can click "no deposit" and only view offers that require no deposit

yeah

it wasn't like that before

haveno used to always require deposits regardless

i used it before

oh i didnt know that

but yeah, you dont need a deposit apparently... the problem with no deposit offers is that they're mostly 0.4-1.5 XMR

so 0.4 minimum

it was annoying to people that they had to get some initial XMR for the deposit to buy XMR (like catch 22)

so they changed it to make deposits optional (for offers to buy XMR ONLY)

oh 0.4 XMR minimum?

not a lot of breathing room i guess

right this second

i imagine offers change constantly + you can make your own offer i think...?

yeah you can make your own offer

i mean by current rate that's about a hundred bucks

i say that's reasonable

but you have to make it a little generous if you want somebody to take it fast

oh wow this SWIFT offer starts at 10 XMR lol

wow

i mean that's the problem with haveno offers tbh lol

they have an absurd amount of minimum XMRs

the main problem with haveno is just the UI and the complexity

it's based on bisq

like say i found offer pay-by-mail that looks good, it's minimum 0.2 xmr, maximum 22 xmr that's 42-4655 british pounds... i dont have pounds but say i did have them

now i'm looking at the deposit cell, precisely "Deposit XMR" column

you could get away with the currency differences if it was some payment service

but i assume they have to factor in conversion fees

but considering pay-by-mail

so there's a "<= 3.34452 (15%)" in there

.. you better go find some british pound bills :P

what does that mean? :)

15% is probably the percentage above exchange rate

i assume the price is tied to the exchange rate rather than being static

ah maybe but why oh why is it in the deposit column

ok screw it let's look at something i can actually click at... the XMR/BTC

i think if the offer is about buying, the percentage represents ABOVE exchange rate

while selling, percentage represents BELOW exchange rate

(of course the percentage can be negative.. for any reason)

there's offer XMR/BTC with price "0.00222925 (4.40%)" and min-max 0.05-4.99 XMR

in deposit column it has <= 0.7485 (15%)

again what does that mean? :)

i think you can type whatever in the deposit part, and haveno will automatically convert

it's been quite a while since i used haveno lol

ok so the exchange rate is in the Price column i belive

believe

hù

wtf did i type

you need more monero for the security deposit

like 0.10 XMR

so i did acquire some bitcoin last night... i have exactly 0.10 xmr

also.. 200.00% of the trade amount?

wtf is this offer?

the deposit is bigger than the trade amount

well 0.103xxxxblablabla

ah

so the trade amount is less than 25 dollars :P

i think i'll make it same

i'll try to get 0.1 xmr and i think that means ill have to deposit 0.1 xmr

another problem is like... who are these people?? on localmonero you could see a person's profile, you could see their reviews, how many trades they did etc

you'll never know

that's the thing about haveno

but haveno has deposits to prevent scams

i mean idk

you should ONLY release the deposit after you get the money

from my point of view it's just asking me to give it monero lol

lol

i think this would have the potential to be much bigger if it wasn't so damn confusing

i mean, the deposit is there just to penalize potential scammers

Cindy: have you like traded on haveno?

yes

did it work?

yeah it did

ok that's really making me feel better

i mean, the person i traded with was really nice

but if at any time, things go wrong, you can click the "arbitrate" button

it's like a system where a 3rd party (the arbitrator) examines the whole thing, asks you both some questions, and decides what to do (either send money to the seller or buyer)

wait you can talk to them too? or at least you could at the time?

yeah you can talk to the buyer/seller

i'm realizing that haveno is actively in development

via chat

and even arbitrator when the trade is currently in arbitration

so the version you were using was most likely different than mine

nah

not that different from the UI at least

then again, its a fork of bisq

both have similar UIs

ok but there is the main software.. haveno and then reto is this particular network i think

yeah reto is the network

also i have 0.103908037906 xmr... i really hope that after fees and everything it'll be enough to cover deposit

the deposit is a mix of the buyer and seller's funds

so it isn't just you.. just in case you're wondering

i'm trying to do this also to see if there's anything i can send a PR on

oh really

yeah

it's a security deposit for a reason

so there's an internal xmr wallet in haveno

both you and the other party send their own part into the deposit

do i move my xmr there beforehand or do i just send it to the wallet they give me when asking for deposit

nah, the program does it automatically

it's a 3-to-2 multisig wallet

(3 parties, 2 signatures required to properly sign a transaction)

2 signatures of either party*

ok so what i'm wondering is, should i load my wallet with xmr before to clicking on any offers?

yeah, you should load haveno's wallet with xmr

so it can handle stuff

it likes to do things automatically

ok so im sending all my 0.103908037906 of xmr to the haveno wallet

oh boy that's like $26 of monero im nervous lol

i'm not really that nervous. first of all, it looks like i can do trades without deposit i'll just have to get more bitcoin and risk a hundred dollars. second of all, i have some connections left over from localmonero that i can contact and trade a little bit of xmr with personally.

the only way you'll lose money is if the other guy is a dick

and the arbitrator is also a dick

which ideally shouldn't happen

but xmrbazaar has had some malicious arbitrators

what i might be sending a PR about is the ability to select and copy things... like i had to type all those numbers manually before.

when you're in the table of offers, there's no way you can like just copy stuff from the table to a clipboard. and i know from personal experience working with clipboard in X or Wayland is a bit of a bitch but it's kinda important :)

i think you can... copy things?

oh so i figured out a workaround kinda

you can click on the (i) button like next to whatever payment method you have and then you get this window that seems like you can copy things there

oh god

so you can copy things... but only those things that have that clipboard icon

anyway im just ranting now :)

it's pretty easy to deal with this issue using like normcap or textsnatcher or something else tesseract-based

How is everyone

Soiled: soiling our pants, seeing Unknown pool percentage climb higher from 23 to 24

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Unknown pool percentage is 19.6% now

miningpoolstats.stream/monero says 24.1%

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> That's a snapshot of the last 1000 blocks, which only represents the hash rate from the past 24 hours. Given its limited scope, it's subject to a lot of randomness. If you're looking for a more accurate picture of the current LIVE hash rate, check out the network hashrate header:

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Network Hashrate

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> 5.60 GH/s

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> (5.04 GH/s)

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> 19.6 % unknown

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> That's a snapshot of the last 1000 blocks, which only represents the block distribution from the past 33 hours. Given its limited scope, it's subject to a lot of randomness. If you're looking for a more accurate picture of the current LIVE hash rate, check out the network hashrate header:

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Network Hashrate

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> 5.60 GH/s

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> (5.04 GH/s)

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> 19.6 % unknown

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Before qubic began mining, approximately 2% of the network was comprised of solo miners. to estimate their current hash rate, you can subtract 2% from the total hashrate

so you are saying qubic is still currently mining?

without trying to reorg

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> They're currently mining, but don't have enough to perform deep block re-orgs. Qubic has only managed to reach a maximum of around 30% of the network's hash rate and hasn't been able to sustain it for long periods. MineXMR was a pool that maintained an 48% of Monero's total hashrate on a consistent basis back in 2022. This current issue with Qubic is significantly better than Mine<clipped message>

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> XMR's situation, which was much worse. It's fortunate that the MineXMR shutdown occurred when it did

alright

What led te MineXMR shutting down?

makes sense, but doesn't it not profitable to rent hashrate or pay miners x2-x3 as they claim they do for mining on their pool?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> MineXMR where not shitting on other people blocks and closed to apease the network

how is qubic situation?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> MineXMR where not actually hostile, as far as I know

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> MineXMR shut down voluntarily, as they chose not to pose an existential threat to the network's decentralization

trying first ever trade on havenoreto

Did Monero not learn to adapt then? Or is there no way to adapt?

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Compared to MineXMR, Qubic is nothing. It reveals that the system isn't perfect, but a 51% attack via Qubic is still highly unlikely. They might temporarily regain around 30% of the network's hashrate in the short term, but it's unlikely they could sustain such a level for an extended period

blah it glitched out... so apparently it's better to have BCH than BTC on haveno, many more offers with BCH and at reasonable minimums

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Evolver tevador (a Monero developer) posted a solid proposal in response, but I think it misses the point that PoW/PoS are vulnerable to 51% attacks regardless of which consensus algorithm is used. The fact remains that pools owned by Bitmain can already carry out a 51% attack on Bitcoin, and they could do so again if they chose to. None of the consensus algorithms are perfect, bu<clipped message>

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> t Monero's can be improved

sorry i'll stop interrupting y'all are having much more serious conversation with much higher urgency. good luck i'll keep an eye on this room.

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> Improve PoW + have a hybrid consensus -> gain(?)

nopeeee: Can be improved in which ways? Also, how about a hybrid, yes

Not claiming anything about the effect of a hybrid.

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Here's Tevador's proposal: monero-project/research-lab #98

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> It aims to improve decentralization by requiring pools to either send cache to miners (that may be unfeasible, but people are suggesting there might be flaws) or for miners to run their own node, at which point mining on p2pool (a decentralized pool) would become appealing.

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Hybird PoW + PoS was also suggested with a finaliity layer, but the problem is 1) most of the Monero community don't like PoS and 2) it would likely take at least 2 years to implement.

actually

now that i thought about tevador's proposal

how would remote nodes react to that

small miners mine stuff from public remote monero nodes (like in gupax by default)

would the clients have to ask around random stuff in the remote node's blockchain

and would the remote node handle this well at scale?

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Small miners can mine on p2pool

yeah but p2pool also needs a monero node

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Yeah the downside is it would disproportionately affect small miners, who would need to set up their own node. this would force many small miners to choose between quitting the network or hosting their own node

and tevador's proposal has the cache be selected from random parts of the blockchain

which would cause the client to ask a lot of stuff from the node

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> My answer to the second question: Sometimes is needed a bitter pill. I believe a hybrid consensus system is good if implemented correctly. Ultimately.

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> It would be about 3G of bandwidth per day for the client

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> I like hybrid, but do we really want to wait at least 2 years to implement it?

public nodes would start ratelimiting blockchain searches

to mitigate the effects

and thus, making mining on a remote public node harder

and well, harder for small miners to participate

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> I think small miners will face significant disincentives as well, but the resulting hash rate decline is likely to be relatively small. Those who genuinely want to contribute to the network can simply run their own node

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> we can implement the other things first until the finality layer is ready, in 2 years it would be the longer term solution and during those two years we improve PoW.

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> And after too

pools will just require people to host their own monero node

as a work-around

and p2pool will probably be the same, for the sake of not killing public nodes

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> If you host your own node, why wouldn't you mine on p2pool?

<u​sb:envs.net> Yes

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> It makes no sense for someone who hosts their own node to mine on anything other than p2pool which has 0% fees

pools will not increase fees because they will not be offering RandomX caches

for the sake of bandwidth

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Also @xenu, I'd like to correct your take on Monetalk regarding the fee increase proposal. To be honest, I don't think anyone is seriously considering that idea anymore. The main proposals are Tevador's and PoW + PoS, which will soon be formalized in a discussion thread: monero-project/meta #1254

big pools may justify the cost a bit

but the smaller ones will just force people to host thier own monero node

also there's also the fact that not everyone (who wants to contribute to the network) has the necessary equipment to host a whole monero node

Hosting your own node just to mine is a big ask, why wouldn’t the average Joe just mine something else

for one, even i don't have a SSD

i can't host one because monerod completely uses up 100% I/O

so i have to mine off of a public remote node

if i was forced to host a monero node to mine (even if i didn't have the proper equipment to do so), it would drive me off of mining completel

baz: exactly

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> It's a trade-off: the average Joe (small miners) will likely leave the Monero mining scene altogether. I believe that the resulting loss of hash rate, although significant, may be worth it in order to further decentralize the network

depends

if it's 30%-40% the global hashrate

it might not actually be worth it

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Yes, the potential impact on hash rate distribution was a point of discussion

i'm fine with PoW + PoS

this should only really be a temporary solution

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Implementing the hybrid solution hinges on whether or not the 51% threat remains persistent. With a 2 year implementation timeline, it's uncertain how the community will respond to the introduction of PoS. If adopted, I worry that it could lead to a split in the network similar to what happened with Ethereum Classic and ETH

since it'll massively deincentivise mining for the average joe

It can remain a last ditch option, implemented but not merged unless the price and hash activity drops really low

so when you have nothing left to lose

PoW+PoS or bandwidth

?

whichever ones are controversial

can proof of stake be modified to incentivise p2pool?

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> The hybrid solution isn't perfect and still poses vulnerabilities. CEXs are likely to become dominant validators, which is concerning given their shady nature. The unknown distribution of XMR makes it difficult to predict how the network will actually be structured. If we're drawing parallels with Ethereum's distribution, I think that PoS will be bad for the network

like you can only stake mined blocks

mined monero*

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Yes, PoS can be modified to ensure that each block requires a fixed amount of tokens to be staked

if you send your mined monero to someone else, it becomes unstakeable

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Yes, PoS can be modified to ensure that each block = a fixed amount of tokens to be staked

yeah, i don't know how to design that thouh

considering monero's privacy details

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> It doesn't necessarily have to be XMR that is staked, although implementing it as the stake token would be the simplest solution

implementing XMR as the stake token would favor the richest people and CEXs

we need some sort of token that only applies to mined monero

Why wouldn't it be XMR that is staked? That's the whole point of the PoS component, is it not...

so that miners are the ones who are favored, not people with the most money

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> E​volver It doesn't have to be. You can use 1 block = 1 token to stake for example

can a block be tied to a specific wallet address?

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> CEXs hate Monero, this is good to a PoS hybrid consensus :)

like completely unmmovable tokens

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> We could better demonstrate to the community how implementing a hybrid system in Monero could be beneficial. I've noticed that many who oppose PoS use the same arguments against a hybrid system. We should also make it clear that we will never be 100% PoS (and will always focus on PoW, although PoS integration would be very helpful). It's an idea, but the biggest problem with the h<clipped message>

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> ybrid system so far is community support. I believe it's necessary to demonstrate to the community how a hybrid system will make us even more decentralized and won't affect PoW.

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> I feel like this could easily be gamed

i don't like when only the rich people are the only ones who get to benefit from this

or CEXs with a massive amount of XMR

Btw, regarding miners, would weighing the RandomX hash more in favor of memory (RAM) help?

no

randomX's RAM requirement is already super massive in comparsion to any other mining algo

nopeeee: can you tell me more about how? :o

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> The common criticism is that adopting a hybrid system using both PoW and PoS might as well make us switch to PoS entirely

I think having a secondary token would confuse and complicate things too much for a foundational crypto like Monero.

this is why tokens should be tied to the blocks that a wallet mined

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> From what I understand, PoW will still have most of the reward, so PoS is another additional layer of protection.

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> by PoS layer, you mean the finality layer?

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Yes

Evolver: is it a bad idea?

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> I believe that no one here wants a 100% PoS system, as this will only bring us disadvantages, a hybrid system solves most of the problems if implemented correctly (we can make the stake completely self-custodial to take away the possible power of CEXs, although Monero does not have large CEXs like in other blockchains like BTC or ETH).

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> This is the proposal: monero-project/research-lab #135

I don't know if I like PoS alot, maybe Stellar's PoA?

but PoS+PoW can make mining outside of pools more profitable

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> finality layer is the only solution that sticks IMO... no other option disables the existence of private chains that can force reorgs / chain forks

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> as for rewards, why not just give finality validators <1 % of the block reward?

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> also, make each validator node be identified by a wallet... they'll have to expose their view keys so that their funds can be marked "burned" if they misbehave

but yeah

you have to have a seperate wallet for mining

just in case you don't accidentally burn your own funds in an accident

Fwiw, PoS is not without its attacks, e.g. arxiv.org/abs/2505.07713

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> How would making the stake self-custodial prevent CEXs? Assuming their Monero is held in hot wallets they own, CEXes can still fractionally reserve XMR by staking user deposits

Evolver: this is something that can be solved with BGPsec

but like, hijacking IP prefixes sounds easy on paper

but in reality, it'll probably just DDoS yourself instead

see: malaysia telecom's "accidental" hijacking of facebook's ASN

but also the CEX problem can be solved by staking tokens gained by mining, but i don't actually know if that's a good idea

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> An issue with Tevador's proposal I just thought of is that if we assume botnets contribute significantly to Monero's hash rate, then the proposal will likely destroy all botnets. On one hand, this means that botnets are no longer a threat. On the other hand, this could have a negative effect: during the transition, the hash rate may drop so low that the network becomes easily vulnerable

like in the github issue, "assigning anyone who mines a block 1 stake"

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> For CEXs to have greater power, they can hold users' funds (not your keys, not your coins). Of course, they can still have liquidity, but I believe this would help a lot, despite being more of a mitigation measure. In any case, the attack would be very costly, having to exploit two consensus mechanisms. If the community notices that one has been compromised, we'll still have the o<clipped message>

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> ther, which allows us more time to respond to an attack.

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Cindy, I said it could be gamed because that would mean the PoS distribution would simply reflect the PoW distribution. As a result, centralized pools with high hash rates would end up with the most tokens, and could potentially attack both the PoW and PoS finality layer

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> how would one attack the finality layer other than DDoSing the validator nodes?

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> A transition to a hybrid system should be made over time (probably a few months). Good side: we won't have any more botnets. Bad side: we won't have any more botnets. lol

ah

nopeeee: that makes sense

yeah it seems like a bad idea

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> If the set of validators is determined by 1 block = 1 token, then pools with the highest hash rate would essentially become the validators. This would lead to centralization, allowing them to '51%' attack both the PoW network and the finality layer

wait

i actually thought of a countermeasure

since all the validators must disclose their view key

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> If the validators are determined by staking one's own XMR, the distribution is likely to be different from 1 block = 1 token. However, this would still pose a problem: the wealthiest individuals and CEXes could potentially become the dominant validators

and pools must distribute the rewards to its miners

<f​iatmoneysucks:matrix.org> Decred created this: dcrdata.decred.org/attack-cost This shows how costly a serious attack is. Considering that Monero is much more expensive than Decred, this attack would be almost economic suicide for the attacker. This is just counting the code, as we still have the Monero community on our side against a potential attacker.

then basically, tie the tokens to monero mined

if they get sent to someone else, deduct a token

(the person who gets the monero will not have the token)

this would punish centralized pools, because they have to send the rewards out somehow

while letting the honest miners stockpile the tokens and withdraw to their main wallet without issues

(other than no tokens)

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> why not just make anyone with a minimum of 1 unit of "staked token" (be it XMR, block, or whatever) equally a validator? any additional "staked token" will not grant you bigger weight

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> a side-effect would be too many validators (thus, network latency + congestion)

<n​opeeee:nope.chat> Cindy, I guess that could work. However, I'm still uncertain about how such an implementation would actually be carried out

so basically 1 block == 1 stake, but sending out monero to some other wallet will deduct <amount> / <block reward> amount of stakes

nopeeee: well, the wallets are assumed to be completely dedicated to the mining/validation (due to the exposed view key)

so it would probably involve some complicated network consenus?

it would be the same as regular PoS but you do not count monero obtained from other means, just mining

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Proof of pow 🙃

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> similar idea to what i was saying, the pos would be based on coinbases-only

Other than PoS, would proof-of-burn help?

Proof-of-burn, even with PoW.

Maybe it'll also take less than two years to implement.

> By burning coins, participants earn the right to mine new blocks. The amount of cryptocurrency burned typically influences their chances of being selected for mining.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont have enough monero for that

Another good thing about burn is it psychologically relaxes those who fear tail emissions.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> That probably works best with coins where its easy to obtain 1 trillion safemoon

it works for ethereum too

at least the burn, idk about proof

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> eth was premined

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Abt half of it in circ is still from the premine

The burn amount obviously is very small, and if it solves a legitimate issue of centralization, it's worth exploring.

<s​bt:nope.chat> xcancel.com/r_a_d_a_n_n_e/status/1955365591969304999#m

51% attack, thoughts

file.gtk.ge/file_share/0689c309-67a…gGVeKmjfAXdCGaNzFsouNHStjWNfVgD.jpg

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> "...However, it is not clear if there was a double spend attack or if this was just selfish mining, i.e. trying to earn more of the block rewards. It seems for now that there is no evidence this was a double spend attack."

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> xcancel.com/BitMEXResearch/status/1955254320305217726#m

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Reposted by kayaba

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Just the possibility that they could have done double spend attack seems pretty scary.

<u​ju:riot.anarchyplanet.org> Even so it's unlikely they did.

<f​reedom-quester:matrix.org> Hello, when using monerod over Tor, does it matter if the /etc/torrc file is world readable?

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> They did not did a 10 blocks reorg, so they could not have done a double spend attack.

why does it need 10 blocks

taba: 10 is the Monero standard. I had suggested the same sentiment earlier that anyone who takes incoming transactions (not directly from mining) should await a lot more confirmations for now until this Qubic thing rolls over, maybe as many as 6*5x = 30 confirmations.

i've seen wownero markets ask for 8x confimations

that's what i expected, yes

there are 200 xmppeople here?

There are a lot more via linked Matrix channels

imaginary ones?

real, like the reply you got before you asked about 10

<l​etscage.com:matrix.org> is it possible to detect double spending attack on xmr ?

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> you'll have to keep track of all the orphaned blocks and deduce if there was a possible double spend attack

orphaned txs go back to the mempool ?

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Yes

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Isn't this like detected by monerod automatically?

does a bigger block reorg need more resources

does a bigger number of block reorg need more resources

<u​sb:envs.net> lol someone named gupax

<n​eromonero1024:monero.social> yep... monerod keeps track of orphaned blocks and alternative chains

hello

any suggestion about helping mining and confronting qubic?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> What's your experience?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Gupax seems to be the easiest way to get started

how much RAM do you have

and what's your CPU

Cindy are you asking me

yes

4 e7-8880 with 440 gb ram

moneromooo come and tell us what to do

hyc ?

articmine?

that's actually good specs

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that are awesome specs :D

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Too bad it's CPU and not RAM mining 😂

you can either go with gupax (which is user friendly)

or setup xmrig and p2pool manually

also you don't have to ask the monero core devs for this lol

i mean more generally what to do

my 4 e7 wont change anything

uhh.. it will?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> afaik you can do 120kh/s + n so that's already something 😉

setup xmrig and p2pool or use gupax

440 GB of RAM is waay more than enough for RandomX on 18 cores :P

one e7-8880 v4 has 22 cores so 22 x4

RandomX takes up 2 GB of RAM per thread i think

88 cores * 2 GB = 176 GB of RAM

2MB L3 cache

Per thread

don't worry, 45MB :P

or at least, i found on the internet

any chance that's true?

can anyone tell us what will gone happen with qubic?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> 2gb of ram per thread?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> wtf is that calculation

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> 2.6gb for every cpu (in dualsocket +setups)

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> 2.6gb for every cpu (in dualsocket+ setups). thats all thats allocated in memory.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> hugepages and 1gb pages will increase that to like 4gb

the qubic money volume is going up and this is not good

any link that explain in depth how this works and what they want to achieve?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> own the entire world and sleep on stacks of cash

i think they mine monero to fund their project or smth

probably vc money to mine monero to fund their *coin

how much they need to have that 51

%

how much money

2 dollas

4 quid

2 billions?

2 squillion wownero

i dont know you but i'm asking seriusly not joking

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> nine hundred billion dollar

so they cant

We don't have enough info to calculate

There are 432 XMR to mine everyday, plus fees, but those are typically small compared with the tail emission of 0.6 XMR per block

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> the cats don't have any secrets to hide

Those 432 XMR currently have a fiat value of about USD 100'000

That's the so-called "security budget" of Monero

can't wait for PoW+PoS

If I somehow manage to set up an arrangement where people mining for me will receive not 0.6 XMR, but considerably more, I can "bribe" a number of them to mine under my control

E.g. throwing in an additional USD 100'000 per day

In whatever form

Qubic does it in the form of emitted Qubic coins

Thx rbrunner

Which, unfortunately, people consider valuable, at least until now

only moonboys consider it valuable

how many qubic coins are they giving away everyday ?

just to ballpark the "loss" value on their side

The weekly emission is 1 billion coins

i can assume CFB can spawn them out of thin air considering how centralized the currency is

That's around USD 200'000 per week, at current coin price

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> sudo print token --amount 50000

Well, spawning 0.6 XMR per block is exactly the same, philosophically

is qubic PoW or PoS ?

Neither :)

but qubic relies on some arbitrary monero wallet

that is not disclosed

They call it "proof of useful work"

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> proof of useless work

You optimize their AI with your CPU, you get Qubic

how much they throw everyday."their real loss"

That's hard to say, everything is pretty shady

rbrunner: is that why you need 2 TB of RAM to host a qubic node?

I mean, their financials

No, Cubic nodes have nothing to do with mining

i know

but that RAM requirement is absolutely insane

A node needs 2 TB of RAM because they basically hold the "blockchain" in RAM and only save it periodically to an SSD

also you have to run the program entirely in UEFI

so you can't run anything else on the same server

No. That's one of the funniest aspects of Qubic, if you ask me: They really must be the fastest cryptocurrency on Earth

"A node needs 2 TB of RAM because they basically hold the "blockchain" in RAM and only save it periodically to an SSD"   ????

what???

Yes, really

yolo blockchain

if you ask me, they're the fastest because the only node is CFB's node

> can't wait for PoW+PoS

proof of sex

monero blockchain?

They had their speed tested, here is the report, and note how it's not on *their* server, it's on the server of that respected testing company: certik.com/assets/qubic-performance-analysis-report.pdf

so the question is, how is their coin not dumping with so much minting ?

Well, periodically may be "every 10 minutes", not sure, and if all the nodes don't do it at the same time, that may well work

Enough people speculating? And almost everybody crazy right now about AI? They claim they build the world's first AGI, a "truly" intelligent program

also btw, how does qubic's UPoW work with AI training lol

are the miners just gonna scrape the whole internet for data

I suspect that whole "proof of useful work" does not hold up, because I suspect you can't prove that you really optimized with all your CPU cycles honestly

But I am far away from being able to prove anything

isn't CPU gonna be a lot slower for.. training a model?

Don't ask me, they don't really tell what exactly they do

It's not an LLM, that much is sure

Because LLMs will never achieve AGI

where is this "A node needs 2 TB of RAM because they basically hold the "blockchain" in RAM and only save it periodically to an SSD"

(IMHO of course)

mine: their requirements

"You will need the current spectrum, universe, and contract files to be able to start Qubic. The latest files can be found in our #computor-operator channel on the Qubic Discord server: discord.gg/qubic (inquire there for the files)."

Proof of useful work is an academic concept in blockchain: arxiv.org/search/advanced?advanced=…e&classification-computer_science=y

This one is also quite interesting, a kind of overview: qubic.org/blog-detail/qubic-s-unofficial-interim-whitepaper

oh wow, i LOVE having the files i need gatekept behind discord

It's not permissionless, not at all

Running a node is an honor that you have to gain and work for

so you have to asskiss CFB until he gives you the files?

You said that, not me :)

lol

what decentralization :P

They don't claim decentralization, for what it's worth

Only enough nodes that consensus can be reached reliably, and colluding enough nodes is improbable

i do remember a tweet from CFB stating they'll continue the 51% attack because of the community

Which community?

and this proves that "qubic is decentralized"

qubic community

Yeah, they do hold votings

At least it looks like it from the outside

"Only enough nodes that consensus can be reached reliably, and colluding enough nodes is improbable" but if you have to get the files from their discord (and probably seek their approval), wouldn't it heavily increase the odds of collusion?

Evolver: Yes, it's a concept, but I am not sure you can prove for *this* particular work that you did it, and that it was useful

by the creator or.. whoever else higher-up in the team who has the files for the current epoch

Yes, I don't think it's public info who operates the nodes. They could all be close friends of CFB, for example.

yes, it could be a nepo cesspool

But well, does it really matter? I mean, if you are not permissionless, does it really matter how strongly permissioned you are?

They got a working cryptocurrency, that's it

And it's fast. Really, truly fast.

Not that this is needed ...

I really recommend to read their somewhat dated, but still basically correct "interim whitepaper"

Here the link again: qubic.org/blog-detail/qubic-s-unofficial-interim-whitepaper

There you find this gem: "The reason for the weekly epoch change is that not only does Qubic run without an OS on baremetal servers, it runs entirely out of RAM. I repeat, Qubic runs entirely out of RAM ...

truly revolutionary

At least it's something different for a change.

so it's a livecd ? with a ramdisk ?

:)

it's a UEFI application that needs 2 TB of RAM :P

can it run crysis?

Can it run Doom?

UEFI can run super mario bros

if you're into that

inside the browser?:D

isn't this amazing? you can play NES games in 10 FPS

and still it would be more worth-while than running a Qubic node

<e​ddie:oblak.be> where is the time a bunch of teens point a low orbit cannon at an asshole and take his website offline 😅

<e​ddie:oblak.be> pew pew

wow, low orbit cannon.. something i haven't heard of for a long time

Get a little slowlioris in and we can ddos like it's the 00's all over again.

This pool attack is just a launching pad for the next several attacks. The way to fix it is with math, with updates to the blockchain.

updates to the blockchain?

to the blockchain software

we'd need a hard fork

yes

for me, i prefer PoW+PoS

or finality layer

i know i flip-flop a lot between options

I don't prefer anything, but I consider PoW+PoB (proof of burn), also secondarily to deflate Monero while simultaneously preserving the reward.

Why do some people not like the finality layer?

proof of swag when

what's proof of burn

" Why do some people not like the finality layer?" because they probably think the wealthiest will be in control

Doesn't make sense

even though i hope that the monero dev team doesn't make it like that

and make it so that the independent miners are the ones in control (with the stuff i've and ofrnxmr been talking about)

I don't see what it has to do with how many tokens one has

the ones with the most stakes*

Cubic blockchain is in ram hmmm, monero used to run that way in the beginning

PoB component will burn some Monero at every transaction, and the burn tickets are given to the miners to mine more easily, or to otherwise raise the bar for mining.

PoB will probably deincentivise mining

it will redistribute it to those who actually use Monero

unless they have big rigs

I used it 3x yesterday, how much do I get?

> does a bigger number of block reorg need more resources

did anyone answer this

Evolver: what if someone has no XMR to burn

do you just orphan their block?

If they're spending, their transaction is not validated. If they're mining, their mining difficulty is harder.

so you're just treating poor people much harshly?

i mean

i didn't have XMR in my wallet when i first started

i don't think i would like if i "owed" the network some XMRs because i didn't have some to burn

If it helps, burn fee *rate* could probably be made proportional to the transaction amount. Just a thought.

just slightly

i still like PoS because you can slash bad validator's XMR and stakes

on top of PoW

We know pure PoS works, but if hybrid PoW+PoS is used, how can the ratio of weight assigned to PoS be scaled up if the network is under threat, and scaled down thereafter? Can the network even know when it is under threat?

it should be tweaked though so that it doesn't depend on how much XMR a person has, but how much MINED XMR that a person has

<e​ddie:oblak.be> How is PoS not going to benefit the richest parties?

aka. the XMR that that person obtained via mining

and if they send over some of that mined XMR to someone else, they lose some of their stake

and that sent XMR becomes unstakable because it's XMR not obtained via mining (to that other person)

eddie: exactly what i've been saying?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't remember

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Or don't understand

1 block = 1 stake, but if the mined XMR is sent to someone else, they lose that stak

stake*

this means that you can't just be rich to get all the stakes

and also that if you want to hold onto your stakes, don't send your mined XMR to someone else

<e​ddie:oblak.be> So it would cost 0.6 XMR to become a validator? or

<e​ddie:oblak.be> So PoW+PoS would mean you would *have* to mine in order to be able to stake?

it would depend on the amount of blocks that a person mined, not the amount of money they have

yes

<e​ddie:oblak.be> ok, that sounds reasonable

and, if you distributed your rewards to some other wallet, you lose some of your stake

which will punish centralized pools

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Proof of pow, yeah

because they have to give payouts, right?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I would just not like a situation like with eth you need 30k to become part of the club

I hope I wasn't the only one who bought the dip yesterday.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not necessarily 0.6. P2pool pays coinbases in smaller chunks. It would only cost a coinbase output

a centralized pool willing to do 51% attack in this case would have to put gigantic fees

to hold onto their stakes

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 120k*

and become massively unprofitable for the miners mining for it

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 32 eth * 4500usd = 144k**

even then, it probably wouldn't increase their chances of 51% attacks on the PoS layer

unless they go all-in and refuse to pay out their miners

<e​ddie:oblak.be> o yeah last time I checked eth was worth 1000 usd :p

ofrnxmr: yeah tying it to p2pool's coinbase is a good idea

lets everyone, even small miners have a stake in the PoS layer

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I like the idea that you would have to mine your stake

yeah, it shouldn't be any other way

<e​longated:matrix.org> Until someone does 51% and keeps mining all blocks

you'd need a lot of computers

you can't setup a mining pool because then those miners need their own full payouts (which will harm your stakes)

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> dont worry, north korea got infinite pwned computers

unless you increase the fees on them to astronomical amounts or just flat-out refuse to pay out miners

but then they'll get angry and refuse to mine anymore

independent miners will have a lot more stakes than centralized pools in this case

which is good :P

<Cindy> ofrnxmr: yeah tying it to p2pool's coinbase is a good idea

lets everyone, even small miners have a stake in the PoS layer <<>> just don't consolidate your hundreds of outputs :D

or thousands

and the ideas about raising fees will hurt p2pool

<e​longated:matrix.org> Cubic pays in shitcoins

nioc: i mean heh, have fun trying to consolidate every wallet with 1 stake

i wonder how that'd work though

<t​esttank:matrix.org> xcancel.com/theragetech/status/1955690772277137526?s=46 cakewallet will have to add kyc (?)

<e​longated:matrix.org> Did they remove non-custodial wallets from play store ?

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> why would anyone not use fdroid and a custom rom!?!?!

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> thats how everyone should use android

this is all because of the EU lol

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> and just use an older cakewallet version

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> fuck can they do? disallow access to the app?

delist it off of the play store

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> select nodes.hashvault.pro:18081 and ur good

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> the monero protocol wont change much

which means no updates

unless you move to fdroid

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Then they should just fuck the play store

<e​longated:matrix.org> Just dl apk from GitHub

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> even mymonero (unmaintained) still works

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> as emergency option

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :3

this is no big deal

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Maybe they can list on huawei store 😂

if you have cakewallet installed from play store, it'll just stop being updated

eddie: winnie the pooh would crack down on that like his buildings crack down lol

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> ...

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> chinese ppl dont do anything abt it lmao

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> xmr-tw pool exists

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I can't imagine why anyone would even download cake "because monero is private" and then actually do the kyc

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> because theyre told to do so

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :3

17lifers: because xmr-tw is in... taiwan

not in china

unless you drink winnie's kool-aid i guess

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> there are chinese people using it obviously

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> theres a mining guide on bilibili bilibili.tv/video/4786593176226816

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I don't think we have much to say about china given it's the US enforcing kyc everywhere atm

it's US and EU

in fact, it started with the EU

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> where we should flee to escape the eu

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :3

<e​ddie:oblak.be> are they those ppl with their univeral human rights declaration?

the EU wanted to fully ban monero by 2027

and other privacy coins too

<e​ddie:oblak.be> this is what you get when you vote for boomers 🤷‍♂️

<e​ddie:oblak.be> cindy, yes, it is going to happen

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> pfft

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> illegal for financial institutions (exchanges) to deal with monero

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> ok?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> indeed

<e​ddie:oblak.be> not for individuals

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> we already got that

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> so no problem

and illegal for any legal company to deal with monero

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> we'll survive this

<e​ddie:oblak.be> indeed , not much will changes, xmr is delisted almost everywhere

if it's just financial institutions

then why did google play store force these requirements

it's not just financial institutions

it's ALL the companies

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> everyone

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> mine as much xmr possible before 2027

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> 2027/01/01 we're DEAD

they don't just go for financial insitutions, they are going for everyone

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I said it before, we need to get lobbyist on our side

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> lobbyists too old to get into crypto

<e​ddie:oblak.be> laws change all the time

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> :3

<e​ddie:oblak.be> gen-z lobbyists

<e​ddie:oblak.be> :D

"the UN claims that "illegal crypto mining operations provide organized crime groups with a powerful tool for generating and laundering illicit funds while minimizing detection risks.""

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> yes

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> gain money

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> use money

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> mine money

is there somebody you forgot to ask?

some people in libya: i consent to using my hardware to mine

the government: i have better shit to deal with

UN: THIS IS ILLEGAL YOU KNOW

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Actual mining (cobalt, diamonds, ...) is waaay more shady

<e​ddie:oblak.be> and it's used everywhere

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> oh no think about the precious materials

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> theyre very... err... precious

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> xd

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I mean, the UN couldn't operate either without tolerating all the evil shit that has to happen to produce goods

<e​ddie:oblak.be> so what are they bitching about

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> they ran out of other stuff to bitch abt

the fact that people in 3rd world countries are getting money?

no no, you see

this is illegal because WE (1st world countries) are the only ones who get to give THEM money

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> cryptomining is income 👍️

in exchange for their materials

<e​ddie:oblak.be> "in exchange"

<e​ddie:oblak.be> we just take their shit and give 'm drops of aid in return

<e​ddie:oblak.be> then we say "no say thank you please"

<e​ddie:oblak.be> s/no/now/

if they actually get money from cryptomining

the UN will come down and start cutting up their wires

for "human rights" or whatever

<e​ddie:oblak.be> EU is very eager to shake hands with warlords and dictators to keep poor people out ..

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> monero makes ppl rich

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> if it werent for xmr id be broke

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> lel

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I have been thinking about this EU situation, it will probably further deteriorate in terms of silly regulations, but there are still a bunch of European countries that aren't EU members. Those countries might still stay safe havens for a little longer, depending on the pressure the EU will put on them to align...

<e​ddie:oblak.be> But in theory those countries can do whatever they want.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> The problem with KYC stuff is that it will be normalized and kids growing up don't realize that these practices are not ok

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> well

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> be part of the 0.001% smartest

<e​ddie:oblak.be> They are also pushing chat control again, which will be basically enforced spyware on your phone

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> what are they gonna do with my custom rom phone? install spyware? i dont have google play services

<e​ddie:oblak.be> App developers are going to be forced to build it in their apps

<e​ddie:oblak.be> so if you don't use these apps, you're fine

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> im not a whatsapp user lmao

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> simplex, matrix 4 lyfe

<e​ddie:oblak.be> It's going to be interesting to see how it will work with open source software, that you can use compile yourself with flag --no-spyware

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> it's going to be interesting to see how it will work with open source software.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> thats more important.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> what will happen to maintainers who dont impl it.

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> will they get shot?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> maybe open source software becomes illegal

<e​ddie:oblak.be> gives people to much freedom

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> the shadowsocks story strikes

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> chinese dev. guy was approached by police to stop development, but people fork it to continue development

<e​ddie:oblak.be> yeah, and tornadocash.. you can ban a UI but not a smart contract 😂

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you can however ban public keys, ...

<1​7lifers:matrix.org> ipfs is decentralized :3

<s​bt:nope.chat> Nothing concrete will happen. EU is run by bunch of clueless boomers. They don't know jack shit.

they don't know jack shit

but they like to write up a bunch of dumb shit

which will bite us in the ass

<s​bt:nope.chat> Sadly storm got fucked by DOJ. Mfs making an example out of him. This is the reason I run Tor relays anonymously.

who's storm

<s​bt:nope.chat> Nah, we're good.

<s​bt:nope.chat> Developer of tornado cash.

fine

oh i see

i don't know what that "nah, we're good" was

<s​bt:nope.chat> Don't forget, they need anonymous overlay networks to carry out there shaddy work. If no one's using it, they stand out.

<s​bt:nope.chat> It won't bite us in any way.

lol

they made an exception for politicians

"It won't bite us in any way." keep saying that 'til 2027 hits

<s​bt:nope.chat> Why do you care about a useless draft? It's nothingburger. Focus on important things.

i'm talking about something they're currently doing?

which is like, planning to fully ban monero by 2027

which they started doing by pushing CEXs to delist it (successfully), and now they're pushing app stores to delist wallets unless they're owned by some approved crypto company

they are trying to keep a tight control over as much of the cryptocurrency community as they can, and the ones that they can't control, they'll ban them away

<s​bt:nope.chat> It's impossible to ban. How do you even do it?

exactly by making it as hard as possible for people to use it

and by standing over and pressuring companies who even dare try to appeal to it

<s​bt:nope.chat> DEX are gaining traction and by your dystopic year, it would be way more mature.

well i hope people in the EU got that lol :P

they could probably try to honeypot DEXs

like make fake offers or take existing ones, just to catch people behind them

if they ever get that popular anyway

<s​bt:nope.chat> There's no one behind it. It's just code. Don't use github and you're fine.

i meant people behind the offers

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that's like "controlled buying" or whatever these fbi junkies do? :D

If you don't use GitHub, no one will use you.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> that said, monero source code still on github, bothe monerod and cuprated

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Its also on ofrnhub

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And ****hub

<d​uggavo:matrix.org> that said, it's easy to set up a monero source code mirror on self-hosted Forgejo, Gitea or Gitlab (and there already are such mirrors)

<e​ddie:oblak.be> is it mirrorer?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> is it mirrored?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> It is, a few places. I cant recall off hans

<e​ddie:oblak.be> of course but maybe the github version should be read only

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> wrong

<e​ddie:oblak.be> why?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> so other mirrors are the backup?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> We use the runnners (eapecially for pull requests), issue trackers, spam mitigation, and other features. And m$ pays for it

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yep. We'll switch is m$ rugs us

<e​ddie:oblak.be> you could let gitlab pay for it too, but I get the point

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> we host a gitlan enterprise

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> repo.getmonero.org

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Has thousands of spam accounts

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Problem with public git instances? People using them for storage.

<e​ddie:oblak.be> does gitlab sponsor it?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> or is it paid by community?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> just curious

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> And i doubt gitlab or codeberg is paying for our thousands of hours of runners

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> By generalfund, iirc

<e​ddie:oblak.be> totally not, I was going along with that other person bitching about github

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> ? A lot of public git instances are plagues with CP

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I wasn't aware

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I host a privatee one

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Even proprietary software, just uploading to thebrelease page of empty repos

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Someone here was hosting one, and had to regularly look into private repos to ban users with CP

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Jeez

<e​ddie:oblak.be> Has main gitlab instance ( dot com) same issue, or is it mostly public self-hosted ones

<e​ddie:oblak.be> anyway doesn't matter that much..

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> codebergnand gitlab, i dont think their runners are as extensive as githubs

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> we run full builds >1hr long tests on every push on a pr, or merge

<e​ddie:oblak.be> the free version of gitlab gives you 400 minutes for free / month

<e​ddie:oblak.be> which I can imagine is not enough

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> thats on proprietary or private repos

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> oh gitlab*, mybad

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Yeah, not enough for monero

<e​ddie:oblak.be> then the github strategy is perfectly understandable

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Self-hosted is also very expensive, and requires upkeep, especially if we hosr our own runners + storage

<e​ddie:oblak.be> of course, I understand

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> The stupid part, is that github likes to shadowban people who sign up over tor

<e​ddie:oblak.be> is it even practical over tor, with all there js

<e​ddie:oblak.be> is it even practical over tor, with all their js

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> yes

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> It is decently fast

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I know with tor browser using JS is relatively safe, but it still gives me the creeps 😂

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> nah

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> its not more safe than firefox

<e​ddie:oblak.be> then it gives me even more creeps 😱

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Github should allow me to pay 0.01xmr to sign up over tor

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Crim

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Or using email alias and then proceed to argue its not a real email when your clearing resppnding back

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Responding*

Hi! How does one get on the matrix server? or is it just through federation?

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> On which server?

the one youre on

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Monero.social? Signup is closed. On xmr.mx? Maybe can get an account if you donate

ic

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> monero.social has been closed for a while, due to heavy spam accts

Thanks for the heads up

<u​sb:envs.net> im pretty new to matrix, what happened to the hackliberty rooms??

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Closed and moved to simplex

<u​sb:envs.net> why did they close

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> Matrix lack of real privacy

they got unabled to decrypted out of the matrix

<u​sb:envs.net> lol

they may leave the matrix

but the matrix will never forget them

that's why 100000 of homeservers will now be DDoSing them

<e​ddie:oblak.be> shwouchk, if you send me an email I can give you a matrix account if you promise to behave

eddie: <3 1sec

Any idea how I send a dm via the relay?

you can't

maybe soon we get a good relay

even then

you wouldn't be able to send DMs via the relay

<e​ddie:oblak.be> shwouck, just go to my website oblak.be you can find an email address there, and you can use pgp if you want

we used to be able to

I believe the new relay will allow dms

I wanna believe :D

time for scrollbacl 0_o

eddie: the bottom email?

<e​ddie:oblak.be> yep

<a​tori_0xbdc3ab4e:matrix.org> I need your help monero family. Recent attack freaked my the fuck out. I have to force myself not to sell and go all in on bitcoin. Help me keep strong ✊

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bitcoin had a 31block reorg. Thats 31*10mins

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> bitcoin decided to, essentially, roll back/delete one of the chains

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero had a 7 block reorg. This is ~14mins, or equivalent to 1 block reorg on btc

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> (14mins on btc is less than 2 blocks, so its 1 block)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 1 block reorgs happen on btc and nobody dies

goo goo says that custodial wallet thingy posted earlier doesn't apply to them

<e​ddie:oblak.be> source?

<a​tori_0xbdc3ab4e:matrix.org> When was this 31 block reorg?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 2011

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Source: ofrnAI

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 53 blocks

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> MArch 12, 2010

<a​tori_0xbdc3ab4e:matrix.org> And they rolled back the chain? Was this when there was a bug that created 80 billion bitcoin?

5VpmcubmFU

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> 2013, 24 blocks

shit

have to reset password now

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> No

source was google

i do not care what happens to monero's blockchain

ofrnxmr: are you referring to the btc/bch split? or is that unrelated? I forgot by now

because if anything bad hapens

a hard fork to a earlier state of the chain can happen

BRING IT OOOOONNNN!!

<e​ddie:oblak.be> I remember that split, good times

fork it to when it was 50 cents so we can get some of dat

i remember that split too lol, i was a dumbass in 2017

but seriously

a blockchain is just a bunch of data, it's not the end of the world if they got a 51% attack

because we can just hard fork with newer protections to an earlier state

<e​ddie:oblak.be> atori: instead of going all in on bitcoin spend some money on mining and help protect the network

^^^

if your country was at war, would you fight for them or run to some other country

<e​ddie:oblak.be> You're not going to be blasted to shit by shrapnel because of defending monero, different consideration :p

<t​esttank:matrix.org> I would break my leg so i wouldn’t have to fight

eddie: yes :P

I have a country?

testtank: you don't even need to break your leg, just have the my 600 lb diet

my 600 lb life*

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The reorg that i refered to, was for bitcoin v0.8.0 producing larger blocks than 0.7.x would accept

does XMRig refresh the config when the file is modified?

yes

really? i don't have to keep killing it?

damn that would have saved some time

you used to but no more

thank you

<t​esttank:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/WKSYXHTodgOtlllZfhBaxqDm

pls attachment for IRC users

<t​esttank:matrix.org> From @newsFromGoogle: Thanks for flagging this. Non-custodial wallets are not in scope of Google Play's Cryptocurrency Exchanges and Software Wallets Policy. We are updating the Help Center to make this clear.

yaaaay

what I was referencing but couldn't copy to here