Even if privacy isn't a concern once you swap into Monero (and I'd prefer to treat it like it still can be, just due to some currently-unknown flaw, you can never know if a system is perfect), I'd avoid CEX like plague. Not another place for my ID to leak.

<ofrnxmr> Context?

torir above suggested buying Monero (or a coin to swap into it) through a CEX.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If you are already using a cex, the only issue is that your kyc'd transparent coin will now be in the hands of a non-kyc user

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> So you could be blamed for what is done with the coins by someone else

Yeah, I just assumed we weren't talking about damage already done, indeed.

<torir:matrix.org> For some threat models, a CEX is acceptable. For some... it's not.

<torir:matrix.org> It is an option for buying Monero that is valid for many people at the present moment.

<torir:matrix.org> Especially if you are in the rare situation where you can use a CEX that doesn't require KYC.

<torir:matrix.org> We do need to remember that if we push away the people who find it acceptable to use a centralized KYC exchange to buy Monero, we hurt adoption. We can't gatekeep and lock out ordinary people who don't need strong privacy but are willing to try it out.

<torir:matrix.org> The more ordinary people who use Monero, the harder it is for governments to ban it.

For me it would be inacceptable just because it's another place that can leak data sensitive enough for people to commit crimes in my name.

<moneroni:matrix.org> > <@torir:matrix.org> We do need to remember that if we push away the people who find it acceptable to use a centralized KYC exchange to buy Monero, we hurt adoption. We can't gatekeep and lock out ordinary people who don't need strong privacy but are willing to try it out.

<moneroni:matrix.org> Disagree. Ordinary people are sheeps who would willingly switch to using paper monero over a 1% cash back, or just coupons to stuffs, or just free toilet papers. Then the government can debase their paper monero.

<moneroni:matrix.org> People were trading in gold, then the government convinces people to trade in paper pegged to gold, then the government "temporarily" suspends the convertibility from paper to gold. Governments can do same to monero.

<moneroni:matrix.org> [... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_tiX478KMXY1VDRv ]

but we still benefit from ordinary people using monero :P

like wider adoption, more places to spend monero

and it being less of a niche thing

it's easier to crush monero if people intentionally sabotage the wide adoption of it

and gatekeep to the point of it being a niche currency

for governments

i don't believe in your "mass sheep adoption" theory

"paper monero" - you mean cash? I still think it's king in the physical world

Monero is for when cash is impractical

also btw i feel like the term "sheep" suggests a sense of superiority

and that's like.. dumb

YES

<moneroni:matrix.org> Sindy: It's not. People who see the importance of privacy is, at least in one aspect, superior to those ho don't.

shut up wit this corny shit

<moneroni:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Anything custodial is paper monero.

<moneroni:matrix.org> Sindy: Nope.

Ah, you meant more metaphorically. Understood!

I do not think it is a good term for this at all, though

i don't think pushing away people for using CEXs is a good idea

<moneroni:matrix.org> Sindy: True.

Yeah, if you already were using them - it's a way. But I wouldn't be advising signing up for it after.

<moneroni:matrix.org> My point is that adoption by people who would use custodial monero over real monero due to some trivial benefits wouldn't help much when government tries to ban monero

<ravfx:xmr.mx> We do need cex even if there annoying / a-hole sometime

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It's more exposure to people at the end. But ideally they would have asset proof and some way to actually audit if there not doing shady thing

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @moneroni:matrix.org: That's a problem with any crypto yeah, one should only leave in the exchange, what you need for your current trading operation.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Using the exchange as a wallet is dumb as we saw many many time lol

<ravfx:xmr.mx> people don't learn and still do it

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Exchange vanishing with the funds did occure way more frecently than "gouvernement baning one of the coin".

the EU ban on monero will filter out the crappy CEXs at least

I was talking about joining a CEX at first

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Sindy: Well, as long as the good exchange don't operate at OVH

before starting caring

<johnyjr:matrix.org> is there anyway i can use retroswap without having to despoit xmr?

<johnyjr:matrix.org> im trying to buy with paypal

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Would need to find a "no deposit" offer

<johnyjr:matrix.org> dang

<johnyjr:matrix.org> i guess nobody takes a no deposit offer as its too risky

<johnyjr:matrix.org> what do you guys recommend to use to buy xmr with fiat?

<johnyjr:matrix.org> like paypal, moneygram stuff like that

retoswap

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Anything but scampal ideally.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Too easy to reverse payment, its why seller who accept that scam add an extra 10-20% to there profit margin

<ravfx:xmr.mx> And hope that extra profit will cover the loss from the people who manage to reverse the transaction

<johnyjr:matrix.org> what is scampal?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Paypal

<johnyjr:matrix.org> ok

<johnyjr:matrix.org> damm i just cannot use id

<johnyjr:matrix.org> like anywhere in the process

<johnyjr:matrix.org> thats what makes it hard

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Its like the most high risk payment method that exist

<johnyjr:matrix.org> yes true

<johnyjr:matrix.org> i wish i could just buy monero easily with no kyc

<johnyjr:matrix.org> its just gotta be this way though sadly

<johnyjr:matrix.org> the problem with all the others is that you need id

<johnyjr:matrix.org> atleast paypal doesnt require id

<xmrslave:matrix.org> Could do cash payment on retoswap

<recanman:kernal.eu> test

<testtank:matrix.org> Got a question, with FCMP++ will only the transactions done after the hard-fork count in the anonimity set?

<testtank:matrix.org> If not, does it mean that the first transaction done will have an anonimity set of 1?

<jeffro256> No FCMP++'s key image composition proof is backwards compatible with Cryptonote / RIngCT key images. The very first FCMP++ tx will have an anon set of however many transaction outputs are in the chain at that time. So >150M

is there a monero explorer for the FCMP++ testnet?

<testtank:matrix.org> @jeffro256: Thanks

<jeffro256> Sindy: Are you in the #monero-stressnet:monero.social room?

no

i'm on IRC

<jeffro256> Ah

<jeffro256> Well that's a good room to join, there's a link in the room description: stressgguj7ugyxtqe7czeoelobeb3cnyhltooueuae2t3avd5ynepid.onion

ring members for one TX is... empty

<jeffro256> Yes

<torir:matrix.org> Because there are no rings anymore. FCMP++ replaces ring signatures.

is it too big to display

oh

<torir:matrix.org> Instead of 15 decoys, your anonymity set per transaction is the full blockchain.

<jeffro256> FCMP++ doesn't use anything like a ring construction anymore, it proves membership through something more akin to a Merkle tree. An FCMP++ transaction thus doesn't contain ring member references anymore, it solely references a single block which is used to deference a Merkle tree root

how does taht work

<jeffro256> You could start by reading the curve trees paper: eprint.iacr.org/2022/756.pdf

<testtank:matrix.org> Sindy: Man… to truely understand what’s going on you would probably need a degree in mathematics

<testtank:matrix.org> We are fortunate enough to have people to ELI5 us

i suck at math

<jeffro256> Sindy: Do you know what a Merkle tree is actually? I would start there first before moving to curve trees

<yatta:private.coffee> @testtank:matrix.org: Discrete Data structures free MIT class would get you pretty close, no?

but i try my best

jeffro256: i do

i've actually used them to split files into chunks

and hash them into a tree

for one root hash

but wtf is this

<jeffro256> I have a presentation at MoneroKon 25 that goes into some more details but they still haven't published the videos :/

<jeffro256> oh well

<testtank:matrix.org> @jeffro256: Yeah i was wondering about that

<testtank:matrix.org> Wtf

<testtank:matrix.org> Still havent published the videos

20:48:38 <Sindy> i'm on IRC

join ##monero-stressnet

the curve tree whitepaper is like

hurting my brain

it's like trying to climb up a mountain from understanding merkle trees

<gogo2464:matrix.org> Hello people! I do not own my own node in monero (simple mode from gui getmonero), it sounds that the node could reach my ip. If I keep the same wallet, from another computer configure to run with tor, will it work?

<gogo2464:matrix.org> to relmain anonymous

<testtank:matrix.org> @yatta:private.coffee: 🤷‍♂️

gogo2464: just use tor

the privacy risk comes from sending a transaction to a remote node

because your transaction ID will be associated with your IP address

by the remote node operator, if they wish

if you use tor, and a monero node hosted over tor, there will be no IP to associate your transaction with

<eddie:oblak.be> I am seeing this Thorchain proposal on the CCS, hahahahaha. these guys squandered like what, 250 million dollar or something, and now they ask XMR to fund their idea 😂 the nerve...

thorchain has a dev fee

they already have the money to do this

<eddie:oblak.be> but of course

<eddie:oblak.be> that's why it's so ridiculous

<eddie:oblak.be> They need monero, we don't need Thor 😂

<gogo2464:matrix.org> Sindy ok then I keep my wallet but I exchange over tor, and then it will be ok

<gogo2464:matrix.org> ?

<heyadora:matrix.org> @gogo2464:matrix.org: The 50 step tutorial on how to use crypto in 2025 xD

<321bob321> Where ready for mainstream

does monero GUI use the socks5 proxy setting for remote nodes?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Ya

ofrnxmr: i'd like the GUI to use a onion monero node if it detects tor being used

or same thing with I2P

is that a pending PR?

<eddie:oblak.be> @whoever is running the repo.getmonero.org server, I tried to activate my account but the confirmation mail never arrived

your mail server is probably blackholing emails

what server are you using

<eddie:oblak.be> My spam filter is rejecting the emails because the mail server that is sending the emails for this gitlab instance is misconfigured:

<eddie:oblak.be> Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname

<eddie:oblak.be> I could exempt the sender, but I rather have someone fix that configuration

<eddie:oblak.be> Sindy: Exactly, and for good reason. The sending mailserver is leaking metadata

eddie: what was the hostname that repo.getmonero.org gave in its HELO command

it's not leaking metadata, but probably just misconfigured

<eddie:oblak.be> helo=<Ubuntu-1804-bionic-64-minimal>

okay, i'd like to thik that whatever mail server they used

it used the system's hostname as the domain name

<eddie:oblak.be> no shit :p

which is dumb :P

<eddie:oblak.be> it's most likely a default postfix or exim config

<eddie:oblak.be> also ubuntu 18.4 is EOL since 2023 at least for the free version

<eddie:oblak.be> anyway, I will gladly help to fix this if help is needed

<eddie:oblak.be> Also, this ubuntu machine sends mails from 178.63.96.7, a hetzner hosted box for the domain getmonero.org.

<eddie:oblak.be> However, the spf record doesn't mention this IP, which is also a problem, strictly speaking.

<eddie:oblak.be> An issue is not only consistent email delivery, I see cloudflare proxy was configured for the subdomain repo.getmonero.org but this email configuration is leaking the origin IP

<eddie:oblak.be> The simplest way to fix this is to disable the locally installed mail daemon, and send emails through a decent smtp relay, zoho offers this most likely.

<eddie:oblak.be> I said Zoho, because the MX servers listed for getmonero.org are zoho's. So I assume there's a getmonero.org hosting plan with Zoho. They also offer clear instructions to use their smtp relay (use TLS); Zoho does, if this Zoho : zoho.com/mail/help/zoho-smtp.html#smtp-details

<eddie:oblak.be> I'm sorry if this is to specific for a generic channel like this, please advise where it is more appropriate

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> fwd'd