<webwipe:matrix.org> x.com/WebWipeMeDown/status/2010096076070789209

<webwipe:matrix.org> Monero meetup in Charlotte, NC this Friday

<webwipe:matrix.org> January 16th

<webwipe:matrix.org> @webwipe:matrix.org: Venue: Tip Top Daily Market

<webwipe:matrix.org> Friday January 16th

<webwipe:matrix.org> 6-9 pm

<webwipe:matrix.org> 2902 THE PLAZA, CHARLOTTE, NC 28205[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/7P3an9sKYVJrNXl4 ]

<remake6316:matrix.org> yo! which options leaves behind less metadata

<remake6316:matrix.org> 1. Purchase XMR directly from a CEX

<remake6316:matrix.org> 2. Purchase LTC directly from a CEX and swap to XMR using Trocador

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Both leave metadata, but on trocador its splitted with two different data broker, except if the service you choose on trocador use thebsame CEX as the one you got the ltc, in that vase it make no difference +except that they know you tried to fuzz by using a swapper)

the one with less steps so 1 D:

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Sorry for the typos, using a phone right now

<remake6316:matrix.org> all good thanks for the response. so 1) leaves behind less metadata, okay.

<remake6316:matrix.org> can chain analysis determine that when you send LTC to a swap service, that the swap was for XMR?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @remake6316:matrix.org: If the swap provider use the se CEX then the one you got the LTC, then yes

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Same***

after you buy from the CEX, send immediately to a non-custodial wallet

(aka. wallet with keys on your computer)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, and churn eet

<ravfx:xmr.mx> If you dont own the keys, you dont own the crypto

many people make the mistake of leaving the money in the CEX

and then when their account gets frozen

that shit is GONE

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yep, even if its 2025... Threat the cex as a bank accout, so stupide

<remake6316:matrix.org> so it actually depends on the swap service if chain analysis can determine if your LTC was swapped for XMR? that doesn't make sense to me..

<remake6316:matrix.org> cos whether or not the XMR you get comes from a CEX, on chain it will look the same

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Your fine as long as the xmr endup in your wallet

it depends on if they got access to off-chain data

<remake6316:matrix.org> yeah, but I mean purely from public on chain data

<ravfx:xmr.mx> To be double sure send the xmr to yourself (one output at at time)

<remake6316:matrix.org> how do y'all acquire your XMR? anyone DEX chads here?

<remake6316:matrix.org> or cash to mail gigachads?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I just get paid for coding service

<remake6316:matrix.org> that's dope

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Buy I got enough that I just decided to retire

<remake6316:matrix.org> did they list the job as paid in XMR or did you arrange that afterwards. if the latter, was it hard to convince the payer to do monero?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Just arrange it.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Get them code preview... Then they like and want your code...

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Then you tell then... No xmr... No code :)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Then they send you xmr even if you dont make a line of code in two month...

i wish i could retire on XMR

<remake6316:matrix.org> I wish I could GET xmr without KYC

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Then take "vacation" for a month, and dont show up after a month becuase you dont care

<remake6316:matrix.org> im pretty computer literate but Haveno and Bisq looked complex af

<remake6316:matrix.org> keen to see what serai brings

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Haveno is not hard to use

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Its like localbitcorns or localmonero

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Before they got executed by ussa or something

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Generic p2p transaction

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Literally, the same as binance p2p but decentralized

<ravfx:xmr.mx> "Decentralized"

<remake6316:matrix.org> localmonero seemed to be used by loads of people and much simpler

<remake6316:matrix.org> i don't really hear of anyone using haveno, i hear of people saying you can use it for non-kyc p2p tx's, but not of people actually using it

<remake6316:matrix.org> not a single listing in my country either

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Well, it was a web page and a nice app but of course... It was located in a ussa protectorate and they did not ask for Kidnap Your Customer™ so rhey got offed

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Off-ed**

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Like localbitcorns

remake6316 for haveno you can try making an ad if there are no ads

might work

<kriek:matrix.org> @remake6316:matrix.org: I used it to buy my monero ehehe

<remake6316:matrix.org> @kriek:matrix.org: that's cool to hear!

<ripening:unredacted.org> If I need to interact with DEFI on ERC20, what do you think about anonymizing tokens via railgun?

didn't you say this before

<321bob321> Echo

<milas900:matrix.org> A transaction input has less than 6 transactions please try again later what’s this error on cake wallet ?

<milas900:matrix.org> It opens transactions In history and ask me to pay but refuse to pay from cake wallet now it’s all stuck

<yokoama:matrix.org> @milas900:matrix.org: contact their support

<yokoama:matrix.org> seems like you are lost in translation

i can see that monero-oxide is really meant for expert users (who understand most of the technical aspects behind monero)

like for example, getting the amount from a received output isn't as easy as just calling .amount() on a WalletOutput. you have to get the Pedersen commitment from the WalletOutput and then get the amount from there

<boog900> tbf you could add a function that returns the amount from a WalletOutput, I don't really see the value as currently its just .commitment().amount.

<boog900> The ecosystem is missing a high level wallet lib that abstracts all of monero's complexity away, this lib can be built on top of monero-oxide.

yeah i could just add stuff myself

<lch361:lch361.net> Hi everyone!

<lch361:lch361.net> Is there any way to run a private Monero node with RAM < 4 GB? The official guide (docs.getmonero.org/running-node/monerod-systemd/#monerod-config) just assumes 4 GB, but never specifies whether this limit is for private or public node.

<lch361:lch361.net> I just want to have a constantly running, and thus, always synchronized node

<yurimyname:matrix.org> @lch361:lch361.net: I ran one with 2gb (not recommended), it's possible but not a fun time

at some point, you'll probably run into problems with the amount of RAM RandomX allocates

<yurimyname:matrix.org> True ✅️

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Is nothing else running on the system?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Then 4gb should be fine if blocks remain small

i don't know if monero runs RandomX light mode

<yurimyname:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: ofrn dm me

cuz the full RandomX mode uses 2 GB of RAM

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Bro

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> 1 sec

Cindy_: yeah, I made a few helpers for that reason to scan outputs on my wallet stuff, it handles that + tx keys + tx proof scanning

i dunno who's this Pedersen guy

but he sounds cool

the complexity is that it gives two different scan types, one for pre-carrot states and one for post-carrot

<milas900:matrix.org> Hello

<milas900:matrix.org> Please help me

<milas900:matrix.org> I’m completely confused

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @milas900:matrix.org: About?

<milas900:matrix.org> I did a transfer on cakewallet

<milas900:matrix.org> To exchange ltc to Xmr

<milas900:matrix.org> The balance totally disappears and in history it says I just transferred ltc

<milas900:matrix.org> But I didn’t transfer ltc I exchanged to xmr

<milas900:matrix.org> I did it one hour ago

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @milas900:matrix.org: No, you DID transfer LTC, that's how an exchange works. You send your LTC to the exchange wallet, they do their thing, then send XMR back in exchange. It can take from a few minutes to hours to happen.

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> You can check in the transactions list and should be able to see a link to the exchanges website and see the status of the transaction.

<milas900:matrix.org> So technically I need to wait until I receive ?

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @milas900:matrix.org: You got it. Or a refund happens

<milas900:matrix.org> There is 12 confirmations

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @milas900:matrix.org: That has to work both LTC -> Exchange -> XMR

<milas900:matrix.org> Ok so it doesn’t say anything pending in my xmr wallet

<milas900:matrix.org> And it’s 50 mins ago the transaction is done

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Have you checked the status of the swap transaction? I'm not talking about the blockchain confirmations, I'm talking about the status of the swap on the exchange website.

<milas900:matrix.org> It says sending it doesn’t say swap

<milas900:matrix.org> Because I did multiple times

<milas900:matrix.org> In the previous time there was swap thing but it’s expired

<milas900:matrix.org> When I tried again it’s just sending transaction no swap transaction

<milas900:matrix.org> I did like three times swap and there was error each time

<milas900:matrix.org> And then I did again and transaction happened but no swap in history just sending

<milas900:matrix.org> I choose to send from cake wallet tho

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> You could send a screenshot of what you're seeing - just delete everything sensitive / PII

<milas900:matrix.org> Ok guys

<milas900:matrix.org> I contacted support

<milas900:matrix.org> They figure it out

<milas900:matrix.org> And the balance now of swap moved to exchanging

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @milas900:matrix.org: Cake Wallet support is very good

<milas900:matrix.org> Yes they are awesome

<milas900:matrix.org> I can’t understand are they considered dex or cex?

<milas900:matrix.org> Or cex without kyc !?

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @milas900:matrix.org: Neither. All they do is make an API call and the app does the wallet work.

<milas900:matrix.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: But centralized no !?

<milas900:matrix.org> Like you can sanction it if u want

<milas900:matrix.org> If xmr is delisted how they get to find exchange which lists xmr

<milas900:matrix.org> What’s their business model

the wallet is just a software, they use an external provider to swap

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> It uses a panel of DEXs, how they decide which one I'm not sure (probably a balance of their commission and the exchange rate you get?)

<milas900:matrix.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: No they swap with centralized exchange I guess

<milas900:matrix.org> No ?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes. Centralized

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Some swappers have their own liquidity, some fwd the coins to mexc, kucoin, and kraken

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: I think cake just picks whatever has the best rate at the time(you can enable and disable some.of the providers since some of em might randomly ask for KYC and such if they want at whatever point of the swap)

i feel bad for europeans

they won't have any swappers that accept XMR

unless it's DEX

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Criminals

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> Cindy: I mean, I'm not European but I'm sure they can always use Trocador through Tor if they are trying to hide getting xmr, I've never had issues with them, I've only used that and sometimes retoswap

johnjenkinss: EU is planning to ban XMR by 2027

or at least, the deadline is

there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU

holding xmr in a wallet could be a grey area

they will not ban holding xmr in a wallet

but the rest will be banned :P

no, but they're pessuring services into not accepting XMR

true

kraken already delisted XMR for EU users

because of the pressure

16:21:47 <Cindy> johnjenkinss: EU is planning to ban XMR by 2027

private ownership and exchanging p2p IS allowed

where did you get that info from? p2p i mean...

holding is not a grey area, it's still allowed per se

DataHoarder: yes, but they're be pressuring companies and services into not accepting them

they'll be*

btcdwed: it only disallows non-private entities

DataHoarder i say grea area, cause i think they will ban that too :D

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> yeah but the US doesn't list XMR either, and I know of plenty of friends, including me, always buying > <Cindy> kraken already delisted XMR for EU users

16:24:05 <Cindy> DataHoarder: yes, but they're be pressuring companies and services into not accepting them

companies and services won't be able to accept them, that's the ban :)

yes

kraken US allows buying xmr i think

that's what i was referring to

also kraken US does allow XMR

i rekt my kraken acc riight before re-verifying

sad day

it's only the EU branch that doesn't

EU is stupid af

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> yeah kraken I believe lists it > <btcdwed> kraken US allows buying xmr i think

they already wiped out their XMR liquidity for EU users

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Never mind. > <Cindy> there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU

its still listed on cmc too

converting like all of them into BTC

LTC is the way

lol nice

oh, later they delisted XMR for canadians

would you rather auto-convert to ZEC?

:D

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> DataHoarder: So let's say for example, EU users couldn't get mullvad with XMR anymore? and also, how would they know the XMR transaction was done by a EU person if , by the nature of XMR and if used right, you can't even tell who did the transactions? just a thought, I'm no expert in this field

I buy xmr on Kraken, no problem at all

liberavento: what country are you in

they don't care about the private person

Mullvad is in EU, so they'd be prohibited from receiving *any*

not just from EU

^

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> DataHoarder: Hmmmm, wonder how'd they react to that, haven't seen any blogs posts on it

they already have alternate ways

Mullvad still accepts montero

A country with no restrictions

like have entity elsewhere resell via XMR, coupons

liberavento: if you're not in the EU or canada, then obviously there'd be no problem

So far...

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> DataHoarder: yeah but I mean if the ban is for 2027, of course it still works now

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: They can't, that's why the EU (and others) are leaning on it.

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> since it isnt put into law yet

using cake 🎂 wallet, Cupcake opto

yes, ofc it works now

*option

the deadline is 2027

before the law takes effect

it's a grace period before they take shit seriously

also in the same EU legislation, they also prohibited anonymous crowdfunding (or crowdfunding via anonymous cryptocurrencies like XMR) i think

it's a pity

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> To be fair, it's all of this that makes me want XMR more

EU won't exist much long past 2027 anyway

lulz

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: So, just a theory, if someone wants to make a private purchase, they could use Trocador to exchange to XMR, move to a new wallet(idk I keep hearing about churning, not sure if it even matters), then swap back to BTC the amount you need for a purchase, making the new BTC wallet unknown to who owns it unless you use BTC for something that requires your identity

u mean a private purchase with bitcorn?

DataHoarder: resellers could be a good loophole

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: Yep. As long as you follow best practice.

it's already done for other entities and services

xmr XMR is becoming a scarce and valuable

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> gingeropolous: if you buy with BTC that has no identity, and the service you're getting also doesn't require your identity whatsoever, it is indeed a private transaction

i'm betting mullvad will let entities bulk-buy discounts

i mean gift cards*

to resell for XMR

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> Cindy: Big brain move if they do that lmao

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: Yes, BTC privacy is only really broken by on / off ramps. But you need to know what you're doing and the risks to stay private, it doesn't happen by accident. Whereas Monero, it's built in - as long as you don't do anything silly.

Cindy | there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU <- The bigger worry is if they KYC all crypto payments because otherwise Trocador+LTC is the way lol

bulk-buy giftcards at a discount

how would they know the XMR transaction was done by a EU person if <- I assumed it was not for EU users, but for EU companies.

on / off ramps and the entities you interact with and your output management

BlueyHealer: the law applies to companies applying XMR, yes

Yes, BTC privacy is only really broken by on / off ramps. <- Eh, not really. I think there may be cases when how the funds move also tells at least something.

you can own it. hell, you could send it between each other

Like, reminds me of how DNMs' wallets were investigated

but if you wanna establish a company and accept XMR, the EU will breath down your neck

<lol_dump_it:matrix.org> wdym monero is pumping? lets start a dump it campaign "it gonna be banned and delisted and illegal to use the monero lol"

<lol_dump_it:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/HZQpUeUGUemGAJqATQZTLGqF.png (image.png)

that's such a sad reality

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> BlueyHealer: oh yeah for sure, like if you send $400 ltc to swap for xmr, then you swap $400 xmr to BTC, there's enough right there to look at you I'm sure

yeah like that

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @lol_dump_it:matrix.org: NAH PUMP ME BABY

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> okay pause

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Cindy: Being honest with ourselves, XMR will never be mainstream. The authorities will never allow us to have privacy. The corrupt politicians and elite have their methods, the peasants can't have one of their own.

<lch361:lch361.net> @yurimyname:matrix.org: Thanks for the answer!

<lch361:lch361.net> Then I guess I'll host Monero node in the future, because currently can't afford more RAM on server. It's got exactly 4 GB, but has other services running

monero will be as mainstream as tor

I'm not sure I want it to be outright mainstream anyway - it has its niche, and it fits the niche like a glove.

or something along those lines

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: Facts

Yeah, like Tor!

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Cindy: I agree. But Doris next door has never heard of Tor. Thank god! But the people who have the brain capacity to exist slightly outside the mainstream do. Same goes for XMR. And I know who I want on side.

<yurimyname:matrix.org> The only way xmr would become mainstream is if the powers that be could get backdoor access (?) or control most nodes

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> BlueyHealer: I agree. I don't even want it for any illicit purposes. I like the ideology behind it, and I like the store of wealth that I can carry anywhere absolutely privately. So when the elites screw things over, via wars or whatever, I don't need to sweat their FIAT crap becoming worthless.

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: Man teach Doris some Tor, poor lady living in the past 😪

I found that ☝🏻

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> tf is that

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> sorry never heard of it that's why I ask lmao

kaigoh: nowadays i do see more and more people steer slightly outside the mainstream

real market place outside the CEXs

normies even switching to linux, having the clippy pfp

etc.

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Cindy: I know! I can't tell you (sad, I know) how happy it makes me to see normies moaning about Windows and being brave enough to make the move. Though I suspect Valve and Steam Deck might be owed some credit there.

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> liberavento: never heard of it some I'm a little iffy bout using it BUT, if its legit, it seems like a good addition to having Trocador/Infinity Exchanger

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Cindy: I think a seismic shift is happening, albeit slowly, but I agree.

But Doris next door has never heard of Tor. <- IDK, people are using quite a variety of methods to circumvent ISP blocks and Tor is an easy and free one. So very well might've heard of it.

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> BlueyHealer: But usually only those in the know. Look at what the UK is currently going through with regards The Online Safety Act. I'm yet to have a conversation with anyone who knows what Tor is, but more and more know what a VPN is.

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @kaigoh:gohegan.uk: VPN , contrary to popular believe, is very mainstream, people just don't understand the technology and ignore it later on in life

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> but I remember in highschool, grade 9 or so, everybody like "Get Psiphon VPN or Hotspot Shield VPN to bypass the school block so y'all can use social media and YouTube" 😂😂😂😂

i remember hotspot shield

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> Cindy: You just had to be there, shit was popping 😂😂

i feel like vpns are more popular because they're always marketed with a purpouse besides user privacy

the average user doesn't really care, they just want to watch the office on netflix

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> alem: Facts, specially the "Stream other countries content on Netflix!" marketing tactic lmao

exactly lmao

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> which I mean, if that gets more people to use a VPN, I'm not mad, but its funny 😂

i think netflix has VPN detection methods now

i don't think that's necessarily a bad thing that tor is still not mainstream

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> Cindy: they do but they lowkey suck tbh

if they can't reliably determine your country (from proxy usage), they'll just show you content they have world-wide rights to

instead world-wide + your country

few people host tor nodes and if it went really popular bandwidth would scarce

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> alem: the bandwith would be a scary sight if it goes mainstream 😂

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> Omg $507, who is pumping, what is going on 😂

oh hell yeah keep stacking

no price talk pls

there's a seperate channel for price talk

<ofrnxmr> #monero-markets:monero.social

BlueyHealer: But usually only those in the know. <- in my experience... Not really. When your favorite social media gets blocked, you find the easiest ways to get it back. Although most of the time I see sketchy free noname VPNs rather than Tor.

<ofrnxmr> Favorite social media sites like to block tor, even the ones who once had hidden services (facebook, twitter, i think reddit did too)

facebook's hidden service doesn't work because they didn't take into account that tor users look like they all have the same IP

same for reddit

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Tor can be painful to use to browse the Normienet

twitter's service is just.. dead

the normienet lmao

it uses HTTPS over onion, but the HTTPS cert is expired

Few people use "legit" streaming here though

i wonder how they forgot to renew the HTTPS cert, or maybe elon fired the guy who maintained the service

ofrnxmr, true. However, funnily enough, Reddit IS consistently accessible over Tor, but is one of the only sites I've seen (maybe the only one) that blocks my proxy.

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> I think the world would be a better place if Twitter and Facebook vanished full stop, not just from Tor

Cindy, Twitter is impossible to browse in its vanilla form anyway...

Like, I can't even see REPLIES. This was actually why I left a couple years ago, except they didn't even show the post itself.

kaigoh, it's about time!

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> I get blocked accessing Reddit via VPN all the time... > <BlueyHealer> ofrnxmr, true. However, funnily enough, Reddit IS consistently accessible over Tor, but is one of the only sites I've seen (maybe the only one) that blocks my proxy.

you can tell what was the budget and priority for these hidden services

simply by the fact how they always forgot to write their anti-bot detection to exempt tor users

it NEVER works

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Cindy: If I remember correctly, the priority was the Arab Spring for socials over Tor?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Literally perm banned on reddit for using tor

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Hm this all seems oddly offtopic

I'm just sad that a lot of people who did leave left for Bluesky instead of Mastodon. Like... It is better than staying on Twitter, but this is fundamentally not that different. Every time I saw Bluesky's success mentioned on Lemmy, the first comments are "why not Mastodon".

<hbs:matrix.org> That's incorrect, will just impact credit institutions and CASPs/VASPs, other businesses will be able to continue to accept XMR legally. > <Cindy> there won't be any legal entity that'll accept XMR in the EU

ofrnxmr, lol, I got shadowbanned on Reddit for DOING NOTHING!

<nthpyrodev:nthpyro.dev> !crypto XMR eur

<nthpyrodev:nthpyro.dev> .crypto XMR eur

<nthpyrodev:nthpyro.dev> .monero

hbs, did something change? I've heard it was about the organizations in general.

Also, under what context would credit institutions and such would even encounter XMR?

Binaries for latest version v0.18.4.5 are now available at getmonero.org

<gan:skhron.org> Bluesky have a better protocol than AP, but it's hardly a success > <BlueyHealer> I'm just sad that a lot of people who did leave left for Bluesky instead of Mastodon. Like... It is better than staying on Twitter, but this is fundamentally not that different. Every time I saw Bluesky's success mentioned on Lemmy, the first comments are "why not Mastodon".

bluesky just slapped on a scraper

<hbs:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Show me the legal document that says that, I've never encountered it

hbs: eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/HTML/?uri=CELEX:32024R1624

fucking cloudfront

this is the legal document

gan, from what I've heard, it'd require a lot more resources to host a "proper" server.

"Credit institutions, financial institutions and crypto-asset service providers shall be prohibited from keeping anonymous bank and payment accounts, anonymous passbooks, anonymous safe-deposit boxes or anonymous crypto-asset accounts as well as any account otherwise allowing for the anonymisation of the customer account holder or the anonymisation or increased obfuscation of transactions, including through

anonymity-enhancing coins."

<gan:skhron.org> BlueyHealer: I moved the convo into the offtopic room, if you'd love to continue

<hbs:matrix.org> Cindy: Yep, so not concerning organizations at large, you can still have a small business and accept XMR as now

Ok!

hbs: but it applies to swappers too

"

Directive (EU) 2018/843 was the first legal instrument to address the risks of money laundering and terrorist financing posed by crypto-assets in the Union. It extended the scope of the AML/CFT framework to two types of crypto-asset service providers: providers engaged in exchange services between virtual currencies and fiat currencies, and custodian wallet providers. "

"In order to ensure effective application of AML/CFT requirements to crypto-assets, it is necessary to prohibit the provision and the custody of anonymous crypto-asset accounts or accounts allowing for the anonymisation or the increased obfuscation of transactions by crypto-asset service providers, including through anonymity-enhancing coins."

Are there even reputable swappers that only exist on Tor or I2P?

the legislation also extends this to crypto ATMs

to quote: "Conversely, activities such as the provision of crypto-asset services through ATMs constitute an establishment having regard to the limited physical equipment needed for operators that mainly service their customers through the internet, as is the case for crypto-asset service providers."

hbs: i guess yes you can accept XMR, but this kills most sources of obtaining XMR

except P2P transactions or mining

Crypto on the internet?

Cindy, ATMs are apparently nonexistent here already... There used to be one but it was KYC

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> Cindy: Which is the best and most sustainable way forward, I think

also don't you think it's only just Monero

"‘anonymity-enhancing coins’ means crypto-assets that have built-in features designed to make crypto-asset transfer information anonymous, either systematically or optionally"

Cindy, but P2P is big anyway

"optionally", yup Zcash will also be affected

Especially given how Bisq is bigger than Haveno and you can use it instead

unless they completely strip shielded transactions from their system

But what about the BTC that was swapped to from XMR?

Haven't dug into that

And some companies accept LTC/BTC only anyway already.

they are literally going after centralized swappers too (that reside in the EU at least)

<redsh4de:matrix.org> Cindy: or add a long-talked about backdoor for compliance

I mean that came from swappers located elsewhere, because they're definitely not going extinct

better yet, they could just conspire to not mine shielded transactions

only mine shielded->unshielded or unshielded transactions

this was already done before by a pool

Really?

<hbs:matrix.org> Atomic swaps? > <Cindy> hbs: i guess yes you can accept XMR, but this kills most sources of obtaining XMR

F2Pool refused to mine shielded transactions

once

i think their excuse was they couldn't write support for shielded transactions

so they barely mined any, only mined unshielded

but like, here's the deal, zcash is already taken over by one giant pool (on the PoW side)

the PoS side is also taken over by the devs themselves

they could just.. make an agreement together to never mine shielded

they could just.. make an agreement together to never mine shielded

(reposted just for you BlueyHealer)

what makes it worse is that the legislation also goes after "crowdfunding"

not just crypto-asset service providers

Yeah that could be concerning, because some charity causes can be interpreted as "crowdfunding"

or even accepting donations in XMR

yeah

ath is close to be overtaken

price talk elsewhere please

/TOPIC says #monero-markets

ah okay 👌🏻

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It's the normal thing. > <Cindy> i think their excuse was they couldn't write support for shielded transactions

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Always support transparent transaction. Shielded is always optionel

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> Cindy: says invite only for me, do I have to be in the monero.social servers?

works for me, but i'm a IRC user

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> ahhh, I'm on matrix, maybe thats why I guess

probably cause of some spam a couple weeks ago

might need to poke the ops there

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Cindy: Its not bridged

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> DataHoarder: I dont remember spam in markets

oh

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Probably room state was reset cuz matrix is ass

libera spam if it was bridged

fair, too

I can't remember which one it was that had different ops

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Markets room was one of the most broken rooms for a long time

markets room is the one where you say "i cant join because it says invite only or something" and ops say 'its fine' then you just give up - but i think this was fixed recently

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> yea

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> It was fixed like a year ago

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Was a pita and server admin had to do a bunch of backend stuff

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Which makes me thing the room state was probably reset due to shitty matrix

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> It says the room is public when i look at it

probably migrate it to a new version and see if that fixes it :D

<ofrnxmr> Thats what i was thinking

<ofrnxmr> Should just upgrade the room atp

<milas900:matrix.org> I can’t understand why people have all their life on WhatsApp and some of them work in IT. And when I challenge them to use more secure things they say I have nothing to hide

<milas900:matrix.org> Do you encounter such mindset in your daily life ?

<ofrnxmr> I use whatsapp

<ofrnxmr> I also use facebook, instagram, snapchat, tiktok

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: For all ur communications ?

<ofrnxmr> of course not

<ofrnxmr> Im here, arent i. I use matrix, signal, simplex etc as well

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: So once you grant access to photos and mic and location it takes all data

<ofrnxmr> for most people that use social media, whatsapp is a tier above

<milas900:matrix.org> Once you download it on your mobile and grant access then your data flies .. people understand this right ?

<ofrnxmr> These people post their location publicly, intentionally, and share pictures of their food, workouts, swimming, whateber, in real time

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: But you understand it’s not about using multiple apps. It’s about granting access to WhatsApp enables them to take your data without your permission

<ofrnxmr> extreme privacy isnt something that they care about

milas900: i use whatsapp too

but in a seperate profile and with restricted permissions

<ofrnxmr> @milas900:matrix.org: They share this data with the world already, intentionally

on grapheneOS

<ofrnxmr> Whatsapp doesnt have access to my contacts or media

i don't even allow it to access my mic, contacts or location

<milas900:matrix.org> Cindy: Ok so the trick is not when to use the app. The trick is what access you provide the app

<milas900:matrix.org> My understanding is correct !?

<ofrnxmr> But everyone you know already gave whatsapp your phone number, and whatever else they had stored in ypur contact

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: Yes but what I’m saying if you grant access to any app your microphone so it can spy on you without your authorization and the OS doesn’t stop it

<ofrnxmr> so whatsapp already knows "ofrnxmr, mobile: 1231231234 home: 2242342345 email: ofrn⊙gx email: ofrnxmr⊙mg"

<ofrnxmr> Why would i think that whatsapp is eavesdropping on me, but the phone app isnt?

<ofrnxmr> @ofrnxmr: And any alias that other people uploaded my contact with

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: Because WhatsApp is meta, their dream to create metaverse by profiling each individual on the metaverse

<ofrnxmr> And android is google, who's entire business model has always been to scrape your data

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: Goggle data more raw

<milas900:matrix.org> Facebook data more about profiling ,behavior, friends

<ofrnxmr> windows is m$, ubuntu is canonical. Signal is cia, simplex is some random guy who was funded by the worst of the worst

<ofrnxmr> Google data more raw? They have the largest "free" email provider gmail, storage backup google drive, know every app you install on your phone

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: No but there should be some minimum measures taken. I’m not talking about extreme.

I could avoid Whatsapp but not Telegram :(

<ofrnxmr> Their text messaging app and keyboars learns about you

<milas900:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: Ok fair enough what measures should be taken by normal people ?

<ofrnxmr> I dont use telegram and dont knkw anyone irl that does

<ofrnxmr> @milas900:matrix.org: Whatever they feel like

<ofrnxmr> so none. If they dont care about uploading their nudes to google drive, why should i

I switched to Grapheneos but this is situation-dependent, I was willing to spend $300 on a phone because I really wanted a degoogled OS.

<ofrnxmr> Why should i carw what they do*

ofrnxmr, everyone around me is on TG. University and IRL meetups.

<milas900:matrix.org> Question is there any plugin can be created when two people chat they chat is encrypted

<ofrnxmr> BlueyHealer: different demographic / locale

<milas900:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: How to degoogle share some thoughts

I shared the best way to degoogle - removing Google services from the OS. But this may not be for everyone. Before that, I disabled Google services with ADB, but don't know if some spyware remained active.

<milas900:matrix.org> The only way it will work if monero xmr goes to some built in communication app which is private

<milas900:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Any article to read ?

But before that, I just treated my phone as "public" and did anything even remotely private on my laptop.

milas900, I don't think finance and comms mix together. Better do one thing and do it well.

also yeah, switching the keyboard is one of the first things I did on the old phone. But I don't know how impactful this was because the Google Services had essentially root and I don't know what they collect... Like, do they collect the messages you do on XMPP?

milas900: the trick is what access you provide whatsapp yes

also keep seperate identities

I assumed they do because it's just an easier adsumptipn to make while you can't check granularly, so did the private things on the laptop.

Cindy, yeah, if I were to use it, I'd do so in a separate profile, I think the isolation is good enough.

<milas900:matrix.org> And how to get phone non kyc!?

Depends on what you need and where.

<milas900:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Just for WhatsApp

<milas900:matrix.org> Coz many people force me to download WhatsApp to talk to them but I just can’t digest this app

<milas900:matrix.org> Each time I see this app I remember mark zuckherberg

<milas900:matrix.org> And I get a little bit diarrhea

Tbh I don't know about phone rentals that much.

<milas900:matrix.org> I started to take care about privacy after mark Zuckerberg irritating speeches

But I remember seeing discussions on a forum that Whatsapp refused to work properly on Graphene, probably wanting Play Integrity.

<milas900:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Interesting. I also heard that signal doesn’t ring when you call people

<milas900:matrix.org> Android degrades the operation of these apps and surprise surprise WhatsApp works perfect

Eh, I don't think there's a conspiracy here tbh

Bigger company, more polish

<milas900:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Graphene need which phone for downloading ?

google pixels

from 6 to 10

though i recommend 7 or 8

<milas900:matrix.org> Cindy: Is it coz they got help from Google or the os designers choose this ?

<milas900:matrix.org> Why not other phones

the OS designers chose it because pixels have much better security models than other phones

google tends to care a lot about the security of their phones

<milas900:matrix.org> So why they didn’t choose iPhone ?

because you can't load another OS on an iphone

<milas900:matrix.org> Cindy: What if jailbreak ?

<milas900:matrix.org> On pixel u don’t need to jailbreak right ?

no, you don't need to jailbreak a pixel

but even if you jailbreak a iphone, it's not enough

you need a boot-level exploit to actually load another OS

not just any jailbreak

also btw, grapheneOS devs frown upon using exploits to unlock the bootloader

because an attacker could do the same

this is why they don't choose any other phone, since pixels let you unlock the bootloader, flash the OS and relock it

I don't think there even are jailbreaks for the newest iOS at all (not like it'd help in this case as mentioned earlier).

it wouldn't help because you need something that lets you overwrite the boot firmware

Yeah you mentioned it just clarifying the other part

oh i see

(may be mistaken)

it wouldn't really help anyway because grapheneOS devs don't like exploits to unlock the bootloader

they want something official since it comes with security guarantees

re whatsapp - even if you run it on grapheneos, and don't give access to contacts/mic/photos/location, it still leaks knows your IP address (= approximate location). Use VPN

<ofrnxmr> Right.

<ofrnxmr> graphene literally calls home everyday to check for updates with no option to disable it (i block internet access to the updater using a firewall)

<ofrnxmr> If you want perfect privacy on a mobile phone.. then throw the phone away

yeah. You go to your favorite pizzeria, connect to their wifi and boom - all your apps see the new IP and know you're in that specific pizzeria (from geo location of the other people with the same IP)

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> @ofrnxmr: Why would it matter if you contact grapheneos for updates daily?

<johnjenkinss:unredacted.org> like , what's the risk there? I use VPN 24/7 with only turning it off sometimes for like 5 minutes at most, but just curious

<kaigoh:gohegan.uk> @johnjenkinss:unredacted.org: Like all things, I guess it depends on your threat model. I think the bigger point is that you can't turn it off, so phone home functionality is not optional out of the box.

<icarolongo> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/TSGnqMHsVfxsRFwwGWhWpyTd.png (Screenshot_20260111_223430.png)

<icarolongo> Today, the Monero all-time high: US$ 550.10

go to #monero-markets

now

<elongated:matrix.org> Cindy: Let him rejoice while it lasts

<cringe_af:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pVjZYhQwlaxhhkikjUAoPwCp.png (image.png)

<cringe_af:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/mzpJCZRhpAdzmuojFEonUqxN.png (image.png)

evasion and meme but i understand