<ravfx:xmr.mx> Is the ban list now part of the DNS thing? Like if you have the dns blacklist enabled, it also take care of the MRL black list?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> (Asking for friends, personally I implement the MRL list in the various firewalls)

ravfx yes as of now DNS has the MRL banlist

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Oh nice, perfect

are we pumping again?

<munching:unredacted.org> what is pumping?

xmr?

pls #monero-markets

sorry

kk

<lostish:matrix.org> @munching:unredacted.org: "is a market manipulation tactic where the value of a token is artificially inflated to attract participants, then sold off, causing the price to crash." - CoinBase docs

<lostish:matrix.org> btw, in Latin America and Spain, many content creators use this to scam people, e.g., Dalas Review.

<lostish:matrix.org> People are very innocent around here.

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> Cindy: > "pls #monero-markets"

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> lol, #monero-markets is still not even bridged to your irc thing and u still out here telling people to go over there

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> meanwhile.... irc #monero-markets is filled with Centralized Exchanges (CEX) shills, literally

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pAOWcbjXGsTgzyhuwfoUXkam.png (image.png)

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> can't make that shit up, that cringe ass dumbass be like "delistings are bad"

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> like wut? nah... centralized exchanges shouldnt even be a thing and are a threat to the cryptospace as a whole....

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> they hijacked the whole space, doing price manipulation on their own off-chain software that has nothing to do with the actual blockchain

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> and yet that dumbass be like we need more of that?

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> fuck off, literally fuck off with that shit lol

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org DataHoarder[m] ur psyop of keeping #monero-markets not bridge is getting more cringe by the day....

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> please fix

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> kthxbye

<lostish:matrix.org> lol

which of the 5 broken matrix rooms are you on, anyhow? :D

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Why does it need bridge? So kitty can read w/o an account

<rbrunner7> So that we have IRC as a fallback for the comparatively many times the monero.social server doesn't feel like working

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> > which of the 5 broken matrix rooms are you on, anyhow? :D

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> fuck do i know, the default one when u add "monero.social" in the "server" on matrix and search for "market" to join #monero-markets

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> the one that xenu/antimoonboy the true market maker out here is in:

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/mgxoErNxjnmWnDuvXuzUvazY.png (image.png)

<rbrunner7> Oh, it's about 1 particular room only then?

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> i guess, plowsoff remade it the other day, currently 76 people in

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> they apparently have other versions of the room tho, with that long string of characters or whatever, like 5 different of them for #monero-markets apparently, idk wtf that is about tbh lol, i just talking the current active one that people are joining by default when looking for the room i guess lol

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> !IJwltLbZTwLnaNOHks:matrix.org this 1

@rbrunner7: yeah just kitty wanted that room bridged so they can read via logs to drop in when ban evading

and yeah. just that room is borked and there are multiple copies of it, some with bad state

<intr:unredacted.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/unredacted.org/PhHmsdlTGaMpgIPWRnvEcsvQ.png (92c33670-f512-4224-b4fc-1d0fdbd3f832_d46680e4805d369540cd5b045c57a03c488fb141.png)

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> ^ coinbase changed their ToS to allow themselves to steal all the customers funds in case of bankruptcy

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> better hope they dont fall into a "hack" that would force them into bankruptcy lol

<bridge_audit:matrix.org> their customer service also got bribed to sell customers accounts including passwords, balances, home addresses and so on and didnt disclose it for 5 whole months while being aware of it, centralized exchanges shouldnt be endorsed

<torir:matrix.org> The ToS change likely was to reflect the current legal reality that in the event of bankruptcy the courts are unlikely to award cryptoassets to customers and instead award them to creditors of the exchange.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> There are tradeoffs to leaving coins on an exchange, but fundamentally you've relinquished your spend ability and have entrusted that to someone else

Imagine keeping your crypto on an exchange at all times lol

<torir:matrix.org> ccn.com/education/crypto/what-happe…ns-if-crypto-exchange-goes-bankrupt

TBH if I were to use an exchange to buy, I'd do so in small chunks, so that a large sum can't become missing all at once.

<torir:matrix.org> I can't find it, but I read an article that essentially said that even if the exchange promised that users would get the deposited cryptocurrency before creditors did in the ToS, with bankruptcy law that might not actually happen.

Treat exchanges as public toilets. You get in, you do your business, you get out

<torir:matrix.org> Of course, there are so many variables and it is difficult to know how a court would actually rule if Coinbase went bankrupt. But the principle "not your keys, not your coins" always applies. If you are the only person controlling the wallet keys, then you don't have to care about things like legal seizure of exchanges (TradeOgre), exchange bankruptcy, or general exchange dishonesty.

<intr:unredacted.org> (mind you the meme was a joke)

<torir:matrix.org> I was pretty sure it was, but we get all kinds of people in this channel.

<intr:unredacted.org> yeah fair

<intr:unredacted.org> I've never signed up to any exchange actually

wasn't there a guy here crying about the fact that all his XMR got stolen by kucoin?

TBH I feel kind of wrong to mock people this happened to, because we all made our share of mistakes and we didn't always use to think of some things that would later come back to bite us.

yeah true

Like, I didn't use to think about surveillance or software freedom until very recently. About security - until even more recently.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: I've lost more crypto locally than remotely but your mileage may vary. I think it's better in general to only have stuff on an exchange when you need to trade, IF you are ready to follow good processes for self-custody

<imprevisto:matrix.org> which honestly, most people aren't

but this guy deposited all his eggs into one basket

so that he could swap to USDC

<imprevisto:matrix.org> obviously it's a huge risk to designate authority to an exchange

instead, he got caught by automated AML systems

At least locally you can take more measures rather than it being entirely out of your hands.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> it

<imprevisto:matrix.org> is also a huge risk to just think things will workout locally without understanding wtf

<imprevisto:matrix.org> exchanges are not created equal. software isn't either.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> and old setups can stop working

<imprevisto:matrix.org> papers can be lost, drives fail (where I lost the most)

<imprevisto:matrix.org> what was 'spare change' becomes significant. you get it enuf spam

<321bob321> You dont keep the seed phrases backed up ?

<imprevisto:matrix.org> my biggest lost was when I neglected to. What was 'change' became worth a lot more, didn't write the phrase down, drive failed

<imprevisto:matrix.org> so it was definitely my fault

<imprevisto:matrix.org> combination of factors..

<imprevisto:matrix.org> made terrible trades too

<imprevisto:matrix.org> so, step 1 is become proficient in linux, step 2 is sort through all the huge amounts of bullshit and find the right programs to run, step 3 is write down your seed phrase

<imprevisto:matrix.org> step 4 is don't opsec fail

<imprevisto:matrix.org> I'm sure normies are capable of all that (not)

<imprevisto:matrix.org> I'm not counting step 2.5 where you sync for like half a week lol

TBH I do my backups the normie way anyway - Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V

Although now I know better than to use thumb drives.

(thankfully that was not learned from experience)

<imprevisto:matrix.org> my fail was an SSD that had only light use (besides the sync)

<imprevisto:matrix.org> totally unrecoverable

<imprevisto:matrix.org> basically, you should keep your seed phrase (which assumes physical security, ofc)

<imprevisto:matrix.org> or if someone finds your phrase they don't know what it is. or you encode that or break it up. might be best.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> all I'm saying is in the face of all that, exchanges might make sense for a normie

Yeah. Several copies and periodically check the medium.

What's even the point of using crypto if you're keeping it on an exchange though?

I can only see "using them as stocks".

And some doubts about how useful that is for "paying for things that you can't use your card on"

BlueyHealer: yes, people keep them on CEXs to use them as "stocks"

these are the people who get their ass bitten hard

<imprevisto:matrix.org> there's fun stuff where you can lose all funds due to the way your phrase is generated too

<imprevisto:matrix.org> see milk sad

<imprevisto:matrix.org> so then you'd still follow all proper processes but the library you used had a problem that was discovered later.

do seeds have error creation?

i mean error correction*

<imprevisto:matrix.org> so your cold storage air gapped wallet just went to 0

<321bob321> Not to be a dick, but sounds like skill issue

is there like a seed format that has error correction, because i've only seen those that have checksums

<imprevisto:matrix.org> the milk sad thing? or how I lost a few coins?

which only defend against typing the seed wrong, but doing no correction

<imprevisto:matrix.org> I'm talking about seed phrase generation

i know

<imprevisto:matrix.org> ok. that relies on good system entropy

<imprevisto:matrix.org> and a good library to use it

ideally libraries should have test cases or fuzzers

that encode a randomly-generated array of bytes to a seed and then decode it back to the original

and compare both

and do this for many many times to catch bugs

<imprevisto:matrix.org> yes, I like what you're typing

If you'

i learnt that polyseed does have some error correction

"The mnemonic phrase can be treated as a polynomial over GF(2048), which enables the use of an efficient Reed-Solomon error correction code with one check word. All single-word errors can be detected and all single-word erasures can be corrected without false positives."

I still don't quite understand. If yu've tested that your seed phrase works already, can it stop working after a while?

Or you're talking about "wrote down the seedphrase and it turned out to be initially corrupted"?

so from what i can understand from this

if you can't figure out one word in a polyseed, you can still import it just fine

<imprevisto:matrix.org> i'm saying a few things. one is that this is all way way way too much for a normie to handle

<imprevisto:matrix.org> it won't be handled by normies, properly, ever

Backups sometimes are, though? At least that's a relatively easy thing to learn.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> maybe they can get a device that allows them to be dumber but still have self custody like a hardware wallet

<imprevisto:matrix.org> but those have problems too, it's not a full solution

Aren't hardware wallets prohibitively expensive?

<imprevisto:matrix.org> the other is that even when everything is 'done right' there are failure modes

<imprevisto:matrix.org> such as when your seed generation library has a flaw. see milk sad

<imprevisto:matrix.org> so you can have a valid, working seed, but then years later someone finds a weak spot in how it was made and pood

<imprevisto:matrix.org> poof

fair

can't you recover it from a older version of the library?

if it used to work in a flawed way?

(i mean surely there could be a compatibility mode for flawed seeds from previous versions)

Cindy, maybe the point is in someone using it to steal money from wallets?

<imprevisto:matrix.org> you cannot recover your coins if someone spent them

Like, that they weren't actually random enough?

<imprevisto:matrix.org> as I'm sure you know

oooh

you mean someone stole them

not that, the seed algorithm was changed up

<imprevisto:matrix.org> yes, someone found your seed phrase, because it wasn't really random enough, exactly

yeah now i understand

that's not a problem with the seed algorithm

that's just a problem with the RNG

Like, I've seen writeups on how supposedly-random values were actually guessable/bruteforceable from the data you know.

<imprevisto:matrix.org> cindy, that's not entirely correct

hm?

<imprevisto:matrix.org> read up on milk sad

<imprevisto:matrix.org> you'll see what I mean and we'll both save time :)

"On vulnerable 3.x versions, bx seed used the weak Mersenne Twister pseudorandom number generator (PRNG) to produce cryptographic key material, which is a critical design error."

yeah, it's a problem with the RNG they used

this was obviously not designed by cryptographer

cryptographers*

<imprevisto:matrix.org> no, it was a problem with the library that generated the seed phrase

yes, the library used a garbage RNG

regardless of whatever source it was

using a RNG not certified to be cryptographically secure is dumb

you get me?

<imprevisto:matrix.org> ah I see what you're saying. That wasn't the only issue but yes, using the wrong RNG is bad

reading from /dev/random would have been a million times better

I like how Veracrypt prompts you to move your mouse for extra randomness

did they get the entropy from the system clock of all places?

like only the system clock? (that's why it's called "milk sad"?)

<imprevisto:matrix.org> I thought milk sad was a fascinating read

<imprevisto:matrix.org> I have to do some work, but good day to you all, keep your seed phrases handy!

<imprevisto:matrix.org> keep em close keep em random

shit i read up most

more*

they fucking used a mersenne twister PRNG seeded on the CLOCK

this is the worst cryptographic design i've seen

so basically, i could compromise accounts if i knew at what time they were made

11:46:43 <Cindy_> which only defend against typing the seed wrong, but doing no correction

there are some that can do error correction, but explicitly do not by default

they tell you that it's wrong, and show the possible errors

but they do not automatically correct by design, or you could never notice the error

DataHoarder: i think you'd notice the error if the paper was torn off or scribbled in a way

I mean, user writing it down wrongly

oh

or typos in words that convert them to others

though that is somewhat addressed by word selection and distance

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Is monerod --enable-dns-blocklist supposed to work? I can't resolve any of the servers specified in the source code and get "WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received". Turning off dnscrypt didn't help.

do you have dig installed?

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Yup

try dig -t txt checkpoints.moneropulse.net +dnssec

you can add @8.8.8.8 or whatever to use a specific DNS server

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> That returned a bunch of stuff

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> ;; ANSWER SECTION:

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> checkpoints.moneropulse.net. 300 IN TXT "233000:4f69bec2af6c0852412bdd10c19e6af10c8d738fe2618b5511a98efd03ab477e"

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> And so on

did it also include a RRSIG?

like this

checkpoints.moneropulse.net. 300 INRRSIGTXT 13 3 300 20260120142112 20260118122112 34505 moneropulse.net. DyvIoxserEpmvGcxxGb82gY1NnZqChbimXfvNG/DnFdjx2Raoi3xqQdv 8ct62GrZNCqTEw+PERR4Y2dgMlfI5g==

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Yeah it did

hm

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Oh, hold on, I think dnscrypt-proxy was actually the problem

really?

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Yeah, I configured it wrong. Turning off dnscrypt-proxy helped. There's an issue for it: monero-project/monero #9546

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> I guess the solution for now would be to download a local list?

or you could patch dnscrypt-proxy to accept a much bigger response

like 64K

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> That's true, but I don't feel like it

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @maxlpm:tchncs.de: Or specify a dns env variable

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> How?

DNS env variable bypasses DoH

and DNSCrypt

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Like DNS_PUBLIC=tcp://8.8.8.8 ./monerod ...

as a disclaimer

monerod uses DNS over TCP, so you could route it over tor

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> The env variable worked, I'll stick with it for now. Thanks y'all for the help! :D

<yokoama:matrix.org> docs.getmonero.org is down ?

<higherlander:matrix.org> @yokoama:matrix.org: It’s not working on my side either.

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Yeah, it's down

plowsof: ^

Thanks, checking

<redsh4de:matrix.org> beta website deployments stopped as well

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Does anybody know what happened to the Outreach workgroup? Their website is mentioned in the FAQ on getmonero but it's inaccessible, and all of their other stuff looks frozen in time

redsh4de yes i see deployments have failed , checking - docs has/had similar issues

<17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> @maxlpm:tchncs.de: coordinated marketing efforts are dead yes

<maxlpm:tchncs.de> Is there any specific reason?

<17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> no msgs since aug 4 '25, so effectively dead

<17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> oh moneromarketing at matrix.org is active, cool

<imprevisto:matrix.org> methods for success: one, do not market. two, do not have a centralized board to go nuclear and kill the golden goose

<imprevisto:matrix.org> three: say nothing. four: keep your seed phrase handy

<munching:unredacted.org> why are there so many miku 17lifers in here???

<munching:unredacted.org> that’s kinda creepy

wtf is this domain

<17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> redundancy is important in federated services as one service can go down at any point

You don't need to explain that, I mean the domain name

<17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> >.<

<lostish:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: I just realized, shit... xDDD

hi, can someone help me with enabling dns block list on the gui

phantomphreak yes, are you running a local node that the gui controls?

yes

@plowsof whats a site i can copy the logs and send you the link to.

just add... --enable-dns-blocklist to daemon start up flags in settings -> node

thats where im getting an error

F Error starting server: Failed to bind IPv4 (set to required)

ah ok come to #monero-support

ok

<basses:matrix.org> hello, I see this answer from services when they are asked to accept Monero (or any other crypto).

<basses:matrix.org> > We would like to, but we don't have the resources to figure out the tax implications and implement it at the moment.

<basses:matrix.org> Is there a resource to point them to it?

<fijxu:nadeko.net> Mhh, depends of the country, some countries for example enforce tax if you use crypto, like czechia (I heard this from a person I know)

<fijxu:nadeko.net> but if they wanted to accept crypto they can just use cryptomus or heleket

IDK how true it is but Proton said they had to be audited, and that Monero is really frowned upon by such auditors.

Doesn't excuse them making a BTC wallet nobody asked for though...

<basses:matrix.org> @fijxu:nadeko.net: I think all countries treat crypto and money, were you have to report tax for it like any business so it is not only czechia

I mean having an extra tax on top if something is paid with crypto/

basses: you don't have to worry about such a thing in the EU :P

exchanges don't want anything to do with Monero (because the EU breathes down their neck)

and most businesses usually use exchanges to conduct Monero transactions

so by extension, it'll be much much harder for businesses to accept Monero

because they don't know what to do with it

it's easier to say "oh we got DEXs, haveno and P2P and shit"

but businesses don't want to deal with those forms of coverting Monero to fiat because it's way too risky and unstable

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> ya converting xmr to fiat p2p as a function of your business would make you a MSB unless you are selling to a MSB

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I think business would also have to be on the "cyberpunk" spectrum to adopt accepting payments in Monero. Not just supporting it as yet another payment option.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Mullvad VPN is based in Sweden and accept XMR. It's all about principles.

mullvad probably have their ways of converting the money into fiat

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I'm only a newcomer to the community but I really think this is how things will stay (probably for the better if I'm being honest).

businesses outside the EU are probably the only ones that can accept Monero as yet another payment method

because exchanges haven't delisted XMR for others

(other than canada)

the US still has exchanges that deal with Monero

<intr:unredacted.org> > Mullvad VPN is based. It's all about principles.

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Cindy: For now.

businesses don't have to be into it to accept XMR

just look at Steam and their phase of accepting BTC

they did it through an intermediate exchange

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Speaking of, Steam could highly benefit from incorporating Monero to circumvent the recent censorship demands from Visa/MasterCard

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Monero and the other coins I guess

they're a US-based business, they could definitely do it

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Cindy: The longevity of Monero being available in CEXs is not something I'd bet on.

you may not like it, but they are what businesses that accept currencies use

because it's by far the most stable way of doing it

and fast, available anytime

DEX can't uphold to those guarantees, but that's fine

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> Cindy: What I think about them is irrelevant here.

it has an edge over CEX

<pyratevevo:matrix.org> I'm saying it's more likely than not for Monero to continue getting delisted.

i know

That and the fact that cryptos in general can be unstable in price, so they just don't want another one.

<basses:matrix.org> IVPN too > <Cindy> mullvad probably have their ways of converting the money into fiat

<viktor_ivpn:matrix.org> we don't sell all our XMR and not instantly. offramps are less straightforward these days. two are not connected.

<hbs:matrix.org> @basses:matrix.org: Crypto is more often considered intangible assets rather than money (because not issued by a central bank and not legal tender)

<321bob321> I think they treat them like shares