<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> @orbit_eyes:matrix.org: that's a good enough grade to continue next semester

<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> Me personally, I can't wait to go back to school

<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> nioc: No one in the Monero community would ever take something without consent how dare you. !!

<eravsar:raubritter.org> using Monero as the name system of Tor. read on how it works at xns.rocks/docs, xns.rocks/docs/xns-and-tor/xns-on-the-web

<eravsar:raubritter.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/raubritter…oQoAXjHsCa3k9CTP80TKQaJ9gvWLXBv.png (xns_in_action.png)

<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> Kkk

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: why would i not just squat every single name out there

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: because you have to burn 0.01 XMR per name and even if you squat names you can't sell them safely since there is no update mechanism. no one can know if you have a copy of the private key of the name you are trying to sell.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: i will squat every name and then honestly lease them out to point at other people's onions for a crazy markup, then what

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: good luck with that

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> this is like saying no one will resell normal dns names because at the registrar the guy who owns it is some random dude's hosting company and you can't "safely" "own" it

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> now we have njalla doing exactly that and if they don't like you they will just take away your domain

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: yeah but they are legal entities. and yes you can't safely own it. if ICANN doesn't like you they can seize your domain or even worse impersonate you. that's why you want to own a name no one can seize.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> having centralized domain names as a trust mechanism is bad no matter what. we have cryptography and better make use of it.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> you have to fix the website dude every time i click a link in the docs it flashes me with this giant white and blue github logo before rendering your dark mode docs

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: it works fine for me, i am not a frontend dev, but i will try.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> im 100% sure a clanker can identify the problem and fix it

<eravsar:raubritter.org> i will let my clanker know

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> after skimming this are you saying it is impossible to update? i thought at first that the owner of the key could update it or something

<gan:skhron.org> Squatting is already a thing with ICANN-sanctioned domains, never understood the people that use it as an argumentation against blockchain-based domains

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> so if i have mycoolname.xns and it points to an onion ed25519 key

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: no and it is intentional to avoid squatting. at least make people not have an incentive to squat

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> and oops the onion domain key got deleted on accident

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> then its messed up

<eravsar:raubritter.org> yeah you can't update. and even if you could you lost your key how could you sign an update

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @gan:skhron.org: yes i read dfurther and saw there was a fee but because the first intro page of the docs talked about "free" i thought it meant like free as in money

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> so i said that

<eravsar:raubritter.org> no it is free as in freedom

<eravsar:raubritter.org> the fee is a burn transaction

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: djifferent keys for differetn things

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: Hate English for this issue (and many others) to be honest, contextually Germans use the term "gratis" to mean free-in-sans-pay

<gan:skhron.org> Somebody should normalize that

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: i mean ed25519 is the most elegant thing today. you can use it for signing and encrypting (x25519) and it is 32 bytes. very elegant until PQ arrives

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @gan:skhron.org: yes it is better to use libre for free-as-in-freedom and gratis for free-as-in-value

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: different keys as in you have a key for your house and a key for your mailbox not as in my door needs to be a tumbler type and my mailbox needs to be a pin type

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: yeah then use different keys for different XNS names

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> different key for controlling the xns name and the onion name sounds better

<eravsar:raubritter.org> i think XNS is very elegant. people can adopt it for PGP or Tor purposes. i made it because i believe in it

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: then you cant derive one from another

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> yeah that's why it should have updates

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: if it has updates it makes the protocol more bloated and makes an incentive to squat. squatting is one of the reasons Namecoin have failed.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> to me it's just super weird that if i buy a domain for 2 years and then my onoin server gets wiped because i was being stupid, it's totally over

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> how will you prevent me from squatting every name at 0.01 a year

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> there arent that many interesitng sites

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: just keep your main Ed25519 key safe. you would do that anyways. like what do you expect from an update mechanism? it would require you to sign with that same key for update.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: it can't and it won't but at least there is a price and you don't have any incentive to squat. who are you selling it to? why would they trust you?

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> what if the onion gets hacked and the key is found but the local hardware still has a safer key, the safer key is used for safer things

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: no one, it's just to troll

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: nope. it is in same trust level. onion key = xns key

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> that is not good

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> that is what i am saying

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: go ahead if you are gonna burn 0.01 xmr for each just to troll lol

<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> Hi

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i will if anyone ends up using this

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i will register them all to a random key 😂

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: That looks more like self-trolling 🚎

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: tell me any other name system thats more elegant than this. i dont want to sound like a damn shill but this is nice since it depends on Monero. as long as Monero is okay you can always derive the same XNS state.

<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> Ok

<eravsar:raubritter.org> instead of handing out people your PGP key you can give them your XNS name, and it will be fine as long as you renew your name

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: I hope you're familiar with Zooko's triangle?

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @gan:skhron.org: i heard it now and i guess XNS achieves all three?

<gan:skhron.org> I guess, there's some papers on petname (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petname), and something like GNUnet GNS, but generally blockchain as clunky as they are - pretty close to the middle point of Zooko's triangle

<eravsar:raubritter.org> but it is about being built-in to network protocol i guess? not another blockchain. if so Namecoin also achieves it

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> @gan:skhron.org: is that where you have to pick 2 between getting rich, being honest, and not getting arrested

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: Eh, more or less - yeah. generally in the P2P scene, piggybacking off already existing cryptocurrency blockchains considered either harmful or in bad etiquette

<spirobel:kernal.eu> zookos triangle is just made up.

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i know it is, i just made it up

<spirobel:kernal.eu> but there where lots of scams around this idea to push premined altcoin scams

<gan:skhron.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Everything is made up, by people even

<gan:skhron.org> @gan:skhron.org: So and Math, do you have anything more solid towards its criticism?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @gan:skhron.org: but this idea is just retarded. he just made it up. there is no good reason for it.

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: yeah like, what memorable actually means? does it mean arbitrary? if not you can have something like urbit's.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @gan:skhron.org: math. does he use math to give proof for his stupid triangle?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> he makes it sound like its some deep thought mathematical theory

<spirobel:kernal.eu> but it is just a brainfart

<spirobel:kernal.eu> zero proof

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: You'd consider something like pkarr (github.com/pubky/pkdns), onions and i2p addresses as memorable?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @eravsar:raubritter.org: urbit 😂

<eravsar:raubritter.org> it is like weird frameworks in sociology. it looks complex and seems smart but actually means nothing > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> he makes it sound like its some deep thought mathematical theory

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> let me know when you have some users and i will register a few dozen of the most common names to resolve to nothing 🍵

<gan:skhron.org> Completely side-stepped what I've said, spirobel take some catnip > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> math. does he use math to give proof for his stupid triangle?

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: It have some use, but indeed it's not as rigidly defined, many things aren't

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @gan:skhron.org: so your claim is that this "idea" needs some deep rebuttual. he makes these wild claims in this theory about what is and isnt possible and shows no proof

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: that's the problem. i don't know where to find people who are interested in this. that's why i am talking in monero matrix. i believe this is extremely useful, but where are the actual cypherpunks? sometimes i feel like i am talking to the void. i would like this to get adoption.

<gan:skhron.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Hm, to be fair, I'd agree that unlike something like Dunbar's number, there's no proof for that idea

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @gan:skhron.org: it is not even falsifiable. it is just zooko saying random scientific sounding words that are vague and mean nothing. unsure how this ever got a wikipedia article. should probably be marked for deletion.

<hoss__delgado:matrix.org> Let's stay on topic

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: Any real cypherpunk is busy editing /etc/hosts or mapping keys manually à la Addresshelper on I2P 🧌

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> be the change you want to see

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @gan:skhron.org: yeah i've seen many interesting eepsites. but i am not sure if it would be possible to resolve pure Ed25519 pubkeys to I2P destinations, probably not. I2P is abstracting destinations for a good reason though. it can get PQ resistant very easily. i can't say if PQ is a FUD but if it is even theoretically possible then it should be known

<gan:skhron.org> @hoss__delgado:matrix.org: This is somewhat on topic since the person's software uses Monero to function, but if it'd balloon, we always can move to the offtopic, thankfully there's no support discussion to derail currently :P

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @gan:skhron.org: is there an offtopic channel? i didn't know. but yeah XNS is a parasite of Monero.

<gan:skhron.org> @eravsar:raubritter.org: matrix:r/monero-offtopic:monero.social (#monero-offtopic:monero.social)

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @gan:skhron.org: thank you

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i think cyppherpunks just copy super long onion domains and pgp messages etc around because it makes them feel cool

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: there is nothing wrong about that but i would like to find them and talk to them about this

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i guess you just did

<eravsar:raubritter.org> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: lol.

<berry.stiller-2w:matrix.org> Any recommendations websire or software for swaps bitcoin and monero