<shortwavesurfer2009> Only way I would ever own a Mac is if it was running Linux.

<jpk68:matrix.org> Hey, they're not that bad

<jpk68:matrix.org> Of course, there are other reasons besides privacy, but you can harden them to the extent that they're effectively as good as something like Fedora, if not better.

<jpk68:matrix.org> Such a setup is even recommended by IntelTechniques books and whatever

<malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site> better than winglows

<malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site> that being said, fagOS is also just shitty software now with all the indians ai coding it to shit

<malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site> about as buggy

<321bob321> Isnt macos based on Unix or Linux ?

<malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site> based on freebsd

<malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site> it is a unix like but they only kept the posix tools

<malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site> rest is a frankenstein monster

<ravfx:xmr.mx> A Mac on Linux is basically a joke.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I think latest Linux kernel barely got M3 support. Its overpriced and probably the most closed PC hardware in existance.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> PC as personal Computer, not as amd64

<jpk68:matrix.org> @malcolmz:matrix.thisisjoes.site: Not really, Apple platforms are based on Darwin, which is derived from various UNIX/BSD things

<jpk68:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: It's not bad at all if you're using an Intel one

<jpk68:matrix.org> Second-hand Apple hardware is very affordable in first-world countries, and is arguably quite good value

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @jpk68:matrix.org: Yeah, that's also old by current standard

<jpk68:matrix.org> I don't even own a Mac right now, but I feel like most people who always dunk on them have never even tried one

<ravfx:xmr.mx> about to be dropped officially as for support go, if its not already the case

<jpk68:matrix.org> Newest macOS release drops support for Intel, yeah.

<jpk68:matrix.org> x86 machines will still receive security updates

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I still have a //c somewhere, does that count ?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Next mac I have is a amd64 powerbook with an undercooled GPU

<ravfx:xmr.mx> The model that all failed like, GPU desoldered itself thanks to the lack of cooling

<jpk68:matrix.org> What is "//c"? Apple 2c?

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, it's a relic

<321bob321> They must rely on people committed to the brand

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Recent mac are ok if you like MacOS and closed platform but I just find it rediculous to get them to install Linux simply for the very laggy hardware support they get

<321bob321> The apple fold price is stupid

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Actual Amd64 platform, with say, a Radeon card, get hardware support day 1 at least, might be full of bugs and quirk but it's at least supported

<ravfx:xmr.mx> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/WIFSzNMhaYsqZJhzCJLedGjr.png (clipboard.png)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/lgQsWPRGoiOMtTjxudgVdUsc.png (clipboard.png)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> So M3, almost 3 years old machine can boot linux since last month, but forget about the GPU

<ravfx:xmr.mx> win-win!

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Mac M1+ got USB4 and thunderbolt support last firt september too, also winner considering the M1 date from 2020

<ravfx:xmr.mx> So maybe they will be fully supported in 12 years or so, at that time the maintainer will begin removing support because too much AI patches

<jpk68:matrix.org> @321bob321: Very true

<jpk68:matrix.org> @ravfx:xmr.mx: On the bright side, AI might make reverse-engineering it much easier

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Might

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Apple stopped paying there Unix licencing fee a few version ago, don't remember which one

<haumea:matrix.haumea-sh.org> Wouldn't AI also make it harder? I mean big tech haves the best AI because they are not going to release it

<ravfx:xmr.mx> It was just for marketting ino

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @haumea:matrix.haumea-sh.org: I expect AI to make reverse engineering easier, assuming they can afford it and they can make sense of it (It's not reverse engineering software, it's reverse engineering hardware (but I guess they can do it by taking apart MacOS software...)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Can't say really more, I don't reverse engineer hardware newer than 25 years

<ravfx:xmr.mx> But considering it's been available (clankers) since more than a years, and that reverse engineering of Mac stuff seam to take longer and longer, I think we might be able to rule out "AI" as "turbo mode"

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Anyway, who care, just buy parts that work on the OS you want to use (except if you buy it only to reverse engineering it, of course)

I've heard reversers say clankers are a big help, but didn't get an impression this was a fundamental one. Like, it'd still take long but wouldn't even closely to carry you.

By the way, what's even the appeal of a Mac if it's not M? Like, if it's Intel anyway, why not get something more upgradable, repairable and friendlier to Linux from that time period anyway>?

<jpk68:matrix.org> I don't even own a Mac right now, but I feel like most people who always dunk on them have never even tried one <- TBH I feel like this is justified given how basic things, including quality-of-life ones, are just not there.

Just noticed now in the MRL meeting: The IRC-Matrix bridge seems to produce wrong mrelay.p2pool.observer links for long stuff, or that server has a problem and does not serve the linked content as it should

At least it does that right now