<nnnn20430:plfgr.eu.org> i really do not like how irc-matrix endlesly spams join/quit events to matrix, it makes it very difficult for my client (fluffychat) to even load any messages, as i have to spam "load more" a dozen times before a real message appears....

<syntheticbird> @nnnn20430:plfgr.eu.org: yeah honestly accounts could be kept in channel and flushed every once in a while. but I also understand the argument of being able to know when an IRC user is joining or leaving the chat

<dgently:catgirl.cloud> I don't see irc join/quits

<syntheticbird> skill issue?

<ofrnxmr> @syntheticbird: The more shit clients lets you hide join/leave events

<ofrnxmr> So yes, skill issue

Why "more shit"? Why would you not want to have this functionality?

<dufebo98> LATEST: 🔒 Zcash developers are targeting January to add support for quantum-resistant, hash-based signatures

<dufebo98> how can they

<syntheticbird> LATEST: who cares

<ofrnxmr> Ai is the new quantum. Keep up

<ofrnxmr> x.com/DarkWebInformer/status/2108568172408320402

<ofrnxmr> Just another example of why i dont own/trust a HWW

<spirobel:kernal.eu> youtube.com/watch?v=dDH6cUQIwbw&t=1152s here at the 19:12 minute mark i break down why the zcash quantum claims are bullshit

Man, I hate how Twitter links are still omnipresent yet the way to properly view them is now shut down and partially broken (none of the Nitter instances I tried displayed images).

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @spirobel:kernal.eu: here this is the buenz work i was talking about eprint.iacr.org/2026/1329 if you unironically believe in the hypothetical magic rock

<jpk68:matrix.org> spirobel still thinks quantum computing is a psyop?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> medium.com/@espressosys/we-just-bro…limit-on-snark-proving-0f47da6340de

I might be not up-to-date on it, but I got the impression that "this is a possibility a while in the future, but its priority probably wouldn't be decrypting your random ciphertexts"

<jpk68:matrix.org> Well yeah, CRQCs mean basically nothing for symmetric encryption

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @spirobel:kernal.eu: listen to what i have to say here @jpk68:matrix.org there is more nuance to it.

But it's asymmetric that people worry about

<spirobel:kernal.eu> I believe Energieerhaltungssatz applies to computation as well.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> absurd hypothetical world where expensive computation is suddenly free. Lack of imagination to think that in this hypothetical situation anything would matter

<spirobel:kernal.eu> but ohh spirobel it will only apply to this one cryptographic problem

<spirobel:kernal.eu> the hypothetical magic rock is very smart and very goofy at the same time. you have to think about this possibility, be obsessed with it and piss the next decade of your life down the train to study this and make sure your crypto shit uses at least 1000 character long addresses

<spirobel:kernal.eu> would be to easy and convenient to use otherwise and there are no other pressing needs than this hypothetically super smart and super goofy magic rock that is going to appear any day now

<jpk68:matrix.org> $55 billion worth of capital disagrees with you

<jpk68:matrix.org> ...as well as government contracts, IBM, Google, the list goes on

<jpk68:matrix.org> The government isn't stupid

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @jpk68:matrix.org: drop in the bucket. the semiconductor industry is a trillions

<spirobel:kernal.eu> also mostly tax money theft

<spirobel:kernal.eu> without scamming the tax payer this "industry" would not exist

<jpk68:matrix.org> What about the trillions put into the semiconductor industry from the US government interfering with Intel?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> ???

<jpk68:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/KxjZpoxFnDmyUDalRZNgnYez.png (clipboard.png)

<jpk68:matrix.org> Hmm...

<jpk68:matrix.org> forbes.com/sites/frankholmes/2026/0…mpanies-intel-is-just-the-beginning

<jpk68:matrix.org> Not sure if you have been living under a rock

<nnnn20430:plfgr.eu.org> it very much is and spends lots of money on projects that never amount to anything > <@jpk68:matrix.org> The government isn't stupid

<jpk68:matrix.org> My point is that NIST knows what they're talking about when it comes to cryptography

<spirobel:kernal.eu> i dont get what your point is. this aligns with what i am saying. the semiconductor industry is so big that even the small intel stake that the us government has is larger than the quantum tax payer scam compaign they recently announced with quantum.gov

<jpk68:matrix.org> Again, my point is that you can't just say quantum computing is a fraud because governments are investing in it, meanwhile you think the semiconductor industry isn't a scam, despite even more investment in that?

<jpk68:matrix.org> There's also genai.mil, but is AI a fraud too?

<boog900> I don't know why you want to die on the hill of QCs not being possible so we should not do anything about them. If you are wrong Monero dies, if you are right we save research time

<spirobel:kernal.eu> so to make it very clear: the normal semiconductor industry is trillions, the quantum "industry" does not exist. those are just different groups of people that manage to parasite in large organizations and through government "grants". without these kinds of grifts "quantum computing" could not sustain themselves

<boog900> Can you prove you cannot build a QC?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @boog900: no. listen carefully what i say here: youtube.com/watch?v=dDH6cUQIwbw&t=1152s and what my position is. you are free to waste your time on this. not my problem

<jpk68:matrix.org> @boog900: But it's le heckin' magic rock (unlike silicon), so it can't be real?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @boog900: In one chapter, Watzlawick recalls the story of the man who would clap his hands every ten seconds. When asked about this strange behaviour, the man explained that it was to scare away the elephants. “Elephants? But there aren’t any elephants here!” To which he replied: “Exactly.”

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @jpk68:matrix.org: Energieerhaltungsatz applies to compute. that is my strong belief. if you want to believe otherwise go ahead. but be consistent and at least follow the state of the art

<spirobel:kernal.eu> dont restrict yourself to the addressing scheme

<spirobel:kernal.eu> do the entire proof system hash based

<boog900> I'll take that as a no ... > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> In one chapter, Watzlawick recalls the story of the man who would clap his hands every ten seconds. When asked about this strange behaviour, the man explained that it was to scare away the elephants. “Elephants? But there aren’t any elephants here!” To which he replied: “Exactly.”

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @spirobel:kernal.eu: that is where the rest of the people that care about the magic rocks are going

<jpk68:matrix.org> Energy is conserved in a quantum computer, not sure what your point is > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> Energieerhaltungsatz applies to compute. that is my strong belief. if you want to believe otherwise go ahead. but be consistent and at least follow the state of the art

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @boog900: the whole proposition is so absurd. its like as if you say can you proof that a God like entity will not arrive in the future that will make very expensive computation free.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> oh spirobel it will only apply to this cryptography thing. it is very smart and very goofy at the same time

<spirobel:kernal.eu> we should be obsessed with it

<jpk68:matrix.org> Okay, so after watching the 27-minute video of oxygen being converted to carbon dioxide (on 2x speed), it seems you have noticed a concurrency bottleneck in wallet2 code, and somehow come to the revelation that quantum computers are not real

<syntheticbird> @jpk68:matrix.org: r/brandnewsentences

<intr:unredacted.org> holy reddit

<syntheticbird> its like these game where you pick random cards and start making a story out of it

<syntheticbird> clearly the funniest ones are the one political

<syntheticbird> but its a great game concept as a whole

<boog900> @jpk68:matrix.org: Ah tbf spending too much time reading wallet2 would make me go crazy too

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @jpk68:matrix.org: stupid people should watch it at 0.5 speed. you clearly dont get that this is a separate topic

<boog900> I mean we know the algorithms already > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> the whole proposition is so absurd. its like as if you say can you proof that a God like entity will not arrive in the future that will make very expensive computation free.

<syntheticbird> @boog900: iirc sneedlewood is working on splitting wallet2 for fcmp

<boog900> Its not making expensive computation free

<boog900> There is still computation it can't do fast/free

<spirobel:kernal.eu> anyway its an unrelated topic

<syntheticbird> why

<syntheticbird> i do like oxygen

<syntheticbird> oh you meant unrelated as in the video, not like "hey let's focus on the point"

<spirobel:kernal.eu> i recently used a quantum secure system x.com/spirobel/status/2105658373844984185

<boog900> You could be right, we might never scale quantum computers. But what if we do ...

<spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/BnbqotRiCjabvehHrgCewcuM.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> nice monero addresses should be like this too

<syntheticbird> @spirobel:kernal.eu: beautiful

<spirobel:kernal.eu> thats what i always wanted

<boog900> A lot of "impossible" things have been done

<jpk68:matrix.org> Brings back memories of talking to the guy with dementia at rehab > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> stupid people should watch it at 0.5 speed. you clearly dont get that this is a separate topic

<syntheticbird> @boog900: still remember when electricity was invented

<syntheticbird> what a nice day it was

<syntheticbird> im 211 years old btw

<boog900> It'll take 1000 years to fly!

<boog900> Gets to the moon on 80 .... (Or whatever)

<syntheticbird> @boog900: creative mode coming to real life in next update (ETA: 500 years)

<syntheticbird> @jpk68:matrix.org: bro's dropping another main quest as if it was a side quest

<syntheticbird> more context please

<jpk68:matrix.org> I seem to recall humans making magic rocks do math before

<jpk68:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: I was joking, my bad. My point is that the video was of so little substance, even watching it on 2x speed wasn't stimulating

<spirobel:kernal.eu> you are just too stupid

<spirobel:kernal.eu> watch it at 0.5x

<jpk68:matrix.org> I never claimed to not be stupid. But clearly, you think you're some sort of misunderstood genius, and everyone else is wrong about quantum computing

<jpk68:matrix.org> Put the fries in the bag

<syntheticbird> @jpk68:matrix.org: where is that one coming from

<syntheticbird> first time hearing it

<spirobel:kernal.eu> everyone else like the trillions of dollars semiconductor market

<spirobel:kernal.eu> maybe you cant tell billions from trillions thats why the misunderstanding earlier

<jpk68:matrix.org> You should go short quantum stocks, and see how much money you'll make

<spirobel:kernal.eu> important to understand size differences

<jpk68:matrix.org> If what you say is true, then you'll be rich in no time

<syntheticbird> the amount of self control not to scream ad hominem

<jpk68:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/xeUNfxuUYCvhcwMgddNZfcSN.png (clipboard.png)

<jpk68:matrix.org> Maybe you're the one misunderstanding?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> no. look at the tsmc market cap

<spirobel:kernal.eu> look at the market cap of "quantum" stocks

<spirobel:kernal.eu> compare the two. start to get a grip on reality

<syntheticbird> @spirobel:kernal.eu: there is toothpaste named quantum

<syntheticbird> it tastes bad dont try it

<syntheticbird> (reference to elon musk saying signal is good and people unironically invested in signal the toothpaste brand instead of signal messenger)

<jpk68:matrix.org> IBM, arguably the largest current player in quantum computing, has a market cap of ~$213.50 billion

<jpk68:matrix.org> But yeah, that's just pennies

<spirobel:kernal.eu> how large is the ibm quantum computing business

<spirobel:kernal.eu> lmao this is such a retarded reddit tier conversation here

<jpk68:matrix.org> $67.5 billion in total revenue in 2025

<jpk68:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Why not just hang out in a MENSA group chat then, instead of here?

<syntheticbird> MENSA ?

<jpk68:matrix.org> I'm sure spirobel knows what it is

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @jpk68:matrix.org: you are a clown lol

<spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/dVAMmkaxkIaugzGvnLpKBcfn.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> its just scamming money from the tax payer

<spirobel:kernal.eu> nothing of value

<spirobel:kernal.eu> all the stocks really focused on quantum are just penny stock scams

<spirobel:kernal.eu> look at interviews with these people ... they are little larping shacks not real companies

<boog900> @spirobel:kernal.eu: what will you do when the first QC is announced

<syntheticbird> is that claude ? > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/dVAMmkaxkIaugzGvnLpKBcfn.png (image.png)

comparing an industry that has been around for decades to R&D of new tech

<syntheticbird> NO NIOC DONT GO ONTO THE BATTLEFIELD

<jpk68:matrix.org> Does anyone have a logical fallacy bingo card?

<syntheticbird> @jpk68:matrix.org: hold on

<spirobel:kernal.eu> oh noooo spirobel ibm made 67 billion just from quantum puter revenue

<spirobel:kernal.eu> clown

<syntheticbird> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/PoIRCfiqiYsmmRzsIsNODWnB.png (image.png)

syntheticbird I just ordered 3 bird feeders as winter is approaching

<redsh4de:matrix.org> six seveen

<syntheticbird> thx you so much

<syntheticbird> @redsh4de:matrix.org: tsmt

<spirobel:kernal.eu> cnbc.com/2026/07/30/ibm-ceo-quantum…able-impact-earnings-2028-2029.html > <@syntheticbird> is that claude ?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> it doesnt even have measurable impact lol just like his retarded quantum computer

<spirobel:kernal.eu> that can be replaced with /dev/urandom

<spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/syOcysWLoipDJeuLwpaoqfaO.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> clown computing

my first computer consisted of 3 potentiometers

<jpk68:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu I need a "slippery slope" argument to finish my bingo card

<syntheticbird> they did that in an anime actually

<syntheticbird> well i mean they made a logical gate out of potentiometers but whatever

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @jpk68:matrix.org: you can still play bingo with dementia?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> nice

<syntheticbird> AD HOMINEM

I know people with dementia that play chess :D

<boog900> if they had a real QC it would be a top secret anyway

I love this off-topic channel

<syntheticbird> @boog900: shit imagine if someone discovers O(n) prime factorization and put this in a laptop. You can bet they will disappear in 20 hours top

maybe ai will invent qc but you must be nice..... mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/FRbHSXrKDLbXJXtRBBdWWHYf.png

<syntheticbird> this

<syntheticbird> what cruel monsters would insult their absolutely stupid ai

<machineswillrise:matrix.org> nioc: lol, i find it funny that people think anthropic keeps pushing for ai regulations out of the good of their hearts and totally not to eliminate competition

<syntheticbird> @machineswillrise:matrix.org: anthropic is a good company

<syntheticbird> stop lying

<syntheticbird> they are ethical

<syntheticbird> they are top tier most kind company on earth

<syntheticbird> and claude is top tier most kind ai on earth

<syntheticbird> The message from this creator includes commercial advertisement or sponsorship operations

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> Yeah don't be cruel to claude

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> It's the new policy

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> U can imagine why

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> AI remembers?

<machineswillrise:matrix.org> yeah if they don't train on your stuff it wouldn't make sense as a policy

<spirobel:kernal.eu> > <@boog900> I don't know why you want to die on the hill of QCs not being possible so we should not do anything about them. If you are wrong Monero dies, if you are right we save research time

<spirobel:kernal.eu> it is not just about research time. its also about focus. the goal should be to make monero as convenient to use as possible so it has a realistic shot of replacing the financial system. I have a feeling that QC is often used to derail this conversation

<spirobel:kernal.eu> i am also not against pqc research in general. it should just be done sincerely

<spirobel:kernal.eu> if there was a flock for monero i would definitely support it

<spirobel:kernal.eu> it is most likely a waste of time and will not be deployed, but if you want to play this larp battle you need to play it right.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> maybe in the microcosm of crypto twitter that is bombarded with this kind of quantum doomsday propaganda on the daily time line ... this battle has a prize.... the wider public though doesn't care about that. the larp battle might be won and our magic internet money is perceived as more secure about the hypothetical magic rock

<spirobel:kernal.eu> but the war for building an alternative financial system is lost because the thing is super slow and has 4kb addresses

<spirobel:kernal.eu> normal people just want a thing that works and is easy to use

<spirobel:kernal.eu> etherum is most likely going to win this larp battle

<spirobel:kernal.eu> they have the most resources and best minds on this

<spirobel:kernal.eu> nobody is going to care and the narrative is just going to die in a few years ...

<spirobel:kernal.eu> they are not going to flip bitcoin with this nonsense

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> I feel very strange when I read such stuff at the extremes. Some see quantum as a viable threat to fight and some say we have to become the financial plumbing. Both abstract and eons far. Reality is so much simpler and closer. We are fundamentally getting suppressed and barrier to entry increases every single day with a 10 yea [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_Pva2rILUHNOY2dT ]

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> If we don't succeed local geography, we are underground to extinct in 15 years is my humble opinion

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Probably third world country

<ofrnxmr> He's a btc maxi, dont mind him

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Hopefully you don't get me wrong. Not give up privacy and anonymity, but barter level trust at local geography would have to emerge as a driver

<spirobel:kernal.eu> yes i also thought about this. monero could be a tool to establish trust for larger barter trades that are done off the books

<spirobel:kernal.eu> using multisig escrow

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> We are way closer to last verified node problems or few VPN and ISP laws than to anything else we look at

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Yep. It has to. 73 exchanges or so unlisted xmr without a single enforcement of law at people. Just CASP targeting single handedly destroyed KYC acquisition.

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Next is Dex

<ofrnxmr> @gentlemoose:matrix.org: Next what lmao

<spirobel:kernal.eu> i mean like if monero was easy enough to use + better finality & throughput ... almost like the ux of a normal bank account, then normies could use it to settle larger construction projects / local services ... and is escrow / arbitration to make sure they don't get fucked over

<spirobel:kernal.eu> that is the original vision for "smart contracts" in my mind

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: What do you thing the state is going on after in your opinion?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> seems unrealistic that they can really do something. there were some chilling effects because of samurai and tornado

<spirobel:kernal.eu> but there was also roger ver. the people that got some years in the can

<spirobel:kernal.eu> have one thing in common: they were openly libertarian

<spirobel:kernal.eu> that is the common attribute that links all the crypto enforcement cases

<spirobel:kernal.eu> staying out of the gaze of leviathan is an optics game

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> seems unrealistic that they can really do something. there were some chilling effects because of samurai and tornado

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Those are the structures of authoritarianism emerging. Going to court to hear the sentence, not fight it. Good enough to make enough people flight and don't try and not brutal enough so it triggers a riot. Monero is facing that. If they kill it directly going vs the open internet, something better will come straight away. So it has to be slow, measured and quiet

<spirobel:kernal.eu> yes if you have to go to court it is too late

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Yep, because it is 90% data collection and frame building. The door closes suddenly and violently in the end where there is not much to do. That is probably why a lot of people can't see it happening.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> better make sure to select the right aesthetics, don't look like someone who will have to

<ofrnxmr> @gentlemoose:matrix.org: What do you consider to be a dex?

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> i mean like if monero was easy enough to use + better finality & throughput ... almost like the ux of a normal bank account, then normies could use it to settle larger construction projects / local services ... and is escrow / arbitration to make sure they don't get fucked over

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> I think it has become better with time however I doubt we gettk large scale anything. We won't become financial plumbing ever. At least I don't think that's a possible pathway

<ofrnxmr> Because there are a lot of platform parading as decentralzied, but are extremely centralized with killswitches etc

<ofrnxmr> Not sure how the uou expect the government to go after a decentralized platform other than by attacking it

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: If we have to simplify - non-custodial like swaps, brief custody aka aggregators or 2/3 escrow

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> My belief at least is that last verified node from kyc linkage Is an attack vector to acquisition of non custodial.

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> But I won't pretend I understand deep enough this topic my friend

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: Just blocking upstream access in any way, shape or form possible

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> As they did with travel rule

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Or MiCA 76 for that matter

<spirobel:kernal.eu> > <@gentlemoose:matrix.org> I think it has become better with time however I doubt we gettk large scale anything. We won't become financial plumbing ever. At least I don't think that's a possible pathway

<spirobel:kernal.eu> if the experience is good enough it can grow a lot. we also have to see how many pain points the current system has. many small construction businesses go bankrupt because a client does not pay.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> enforcing contracts, arbitration managing who can be trusted and who can't

<spirobel:kernal.eu> the current system is not that good at solving these issues otherwise the economy would be in much better shape

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: That won't ever happen in a asset like xmr. Half the population on the planet are people are operators and people of structure. They want predictability, order and laws. Not changing the world for a better privacy let alone anonymity.

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Intuitives that ask why the system is broken are 3-5% of the population, half of them not even privacy believers

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @gentlemoose:matrix.org: i would much rather pick an arbitrator from my web of trust that will help me get my funds back than try small claims court or some eu consumer protection complaints form

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> Me and you are a brutal minority my friend

<spirobel:kernal.eu> this kind of arbitration is a massive pain point for many people. it is what smart contracts were supposed to solve but they got completely lost in the weeds. we should pick up that mantle. especially because privacy is a key ingredient that is needed in addition to just the escrow part

<gentlemoose:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Let's first focus on making it survive. The protocol is great and cared dearly. The seeds to grow are there but so is the threat. We need people who want to build projects around irl communities that exchange goods and services at a decent volume while simultaneously being brave enough to show themselves to the world. Not an easy task and not for everyone.