-
BusyBoredom[m]1
Soiledcold, try not to be discouraged by ooo123, he's a little harsh in his criticism of everyone.
-
BusyBoredom[m]1
This is definitely one of those cases where thorough research of existing solutions is important though (unless you're just making something for fun for yourself, of course). You can learn a lot from other people's stuff.
-
soiledcold[m]
plowsof[m]: Yup, plus this is also going to help my project on spreading Monero in Punjab, India. I was just on a call with a small electric company in Punjab and they said they will eventually take monero once our thing is done. (it's for person to person not digital)
-
soiledcold[m]
> <@busyboredom:monero.social> Soiledcold, try not to be discouraged by ooo123, he's a little harsh in his criticism of everyone.
-
soiledcold[m]
>
-
soiledcold[m]
> This is definitely one of those cases where thorough research of existing solutions is important though (unless you're just making something for fun for yourself, of course). You can learn a lot from other people's stuff.
-
soiledcold[m]
We actually have been looking at some other payment processors to get an idea on how we can make ours better but I totally agree
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
<plowsof[m]> "
github.com/CryptoGrampy..." <- ^
-
soiledcold[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: They aren't the greatest tbh
-
soiledcold[m]
not tech wise but more ideological
-
soiledcold[m]
but i do agree with y'all
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
And hotshop is a webapp
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
You can "install" it and and pin/freeze it so it cent be dismissed.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Kiosk mode doesnt allow navigation
-
plowsof[m]
we can all send an invoice to the Monero ceo for 1 hour meeting / consultancy work , if anyone else wants to join in on the invoice let me know
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
plowsof[m]: Ooo approves of this msg
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
soiledcold[m]: What do you require that isnt offered by btcpay or flipstarter-waas
-
soiledcold[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: no im not saying that is doesn't offer much I just don't like the dev team personally
-
soiledcold[m]
but im looking at hotshop rn
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Ok and you want funding?
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
You're not a dev
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Fork it.
-
ooo123ooo1234567
> <@busyboredom:monero.social> Soiledcold, try not to be discouraged by ooo123, he's a little harsh in his criticism of everyone.
-
ooo123ooo1234567
>
-
ooo123ooo1234567
> This is definitely one of those cases where thorough research of existing solutions is important though (unless you're just making something for fun for yourself, of course). You can learn a lot from other people's stuff.
-
ooo123ooo1234567
There is nothing to talk about with a developer that didn't look firstly into available open source alternative for another payment processor. It's just pure scam. That's it.
-
plowsof[m]
waas is just 0-conf donations, no strings attached* garlix.io appears to be functional already, and looks nice, the funding is to 'add monero' - it does look like a nice project
-
soiledcold[m]
I might just use the hotshop pos tbh
-
soiledcold[m]
it looks really nice
-
soiledcold[m]
does anyone know if it will be a mobile app tho?
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
And its not finished yet
-
soiledcold[m]
cuz if it is then I can use it
-
soiledcold[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: hotshop?
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
#monero-community-dev:monero.social to talk to cryptogrampy
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
* to cryptogrampy about hotshot dev
-
soiledcold[m]
Thanks!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
soiledcold[m]: Correct
-
soiledcold[m]
perfect, im gonna look into it
-
soiledcold[m]
thanks for the feedback everyone
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
I believe he has prelim NFC working, exchange rates, integrated addresses and more
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
soiledcold[m]: But please, if you need to raise money for stuff that has preexisting solutions, dont use ccs
-
soiledcold[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: sounds good, thanks again!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Flipstarter-waas was created for fundraising goals that dont require approval
-
BusyBoredom[m]1
Cryptogrampy is a beast, I did not expect hotshop to get this far this quickly.
-
soiledcold[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: I do, my whole exchange is finished
-
soiledcold[m]
just working on apis for coingecko
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Yea, cryptogrampy is using coingecko I believe
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
<plowsof[m]> "there is a bit of a backlog of..." <- Check all of this out for fundraising
-
cryptogrampy[m]
<soiledcold[m]> "does anyone know if it will be a..." <- Hi- HotShop will not be a mobile app in the very near future. It will be web first and maybe then a heavily cached PWA. It can be turned into an android WebView quite easily and I would welcome any PR's
-
cryptogrampy[m]
For a real payment processor accepting online payments, you will need to do verification on the backend
-
soiledcold[m]
cryptogrampy[m]: It looks really good so far, I didn’t know about it until this chat. So if I got this set up a couple of my friends businesses they would just need to put this on a phone or smth and everything else is simple right?
-
cryptogrampy[m]
HotShop verifies on the front end and is meant to use a human cashier to validate someone isn't hacking the system / making bogus payments
-
soiledcold[m]
Is there any way an employee could change the address?
-
soiledcold[m]
Or is it password protected
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Is there any way to prevent an employee from taking cash as a payment instead of using the app?
-
cryptogrampy[m]
If I get PWA working, you could pin the app in kiosk mode as someone mentioned earlier
-
cryptogrampy[m]
On androids, pinned apps are password protected so you won't be able to make any changes
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Would work well for a POS used by maybe less trust worthy people
-
soiledcold[m]
cryptogrampy[m]: That’s true, didn’t think of it like that!
-
cryptogrampy[m]
But at the end of the day, a barista can just take cash, skip the POS and give someone a coffee
-
cryptogrampy[m]
I've been a bit busy the past couple weeks, but I hope to make more progress on HotShop very soon. I have pwa roughly working 🙃
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
soiledcold[m]: If would probably be (not too hard) to password protect the address field? cryptogrampy:
-
cryptogrampy[m]
I feel like password protecting it is a bit too much security theatre, pinning and using the android app password is much more secure
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Someone could just change the url
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Yeah yeah, 2 steps ahead of me
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Admin page = already password protected using device password
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
(To get out of kiosk mode, and employees would be using kiosk mode)
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Yeah I think you would basically have a kiosk pwa bookmark on your home screen
-
cryptogrampy[m]
I will also be adding a button that enters the app into kiosk mode
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Let me know as soon as I can test pwa :p
-
cryptogrampy[m]
So you could start the admin pwa, make any changes if necessary, pin the app, hit the kiosk button and you're good to go
-
cryptogrampy[m]
It's kind of a one way button
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Once you enter kiosk, you can't escape
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Have to password and close the app to get back to admin, which is perfectly fine imo
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Will see how people like that, I'm totally up for other idea, and in fact the pin would be really nice if people are using it in this pwa mode
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Maybe that does make more sense
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
I tried it in a "webapp" app, to emulate pwa
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Yeah there are some problems with that
-
plowsof[m]
the hour is up at 26 mins over the hour. ill tag on any overtime later but just putting this here for now:... (full message at
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…0e9531c3cd45f971dbe2cc97e7b3323e354)
-
-
cryptogrampy[m]
You can't really save a profile in the WebView mode
-
cryptogrampy[m]
What is a webapp app
-
cryptogrampy[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]1> "Let me know as soon as I can..." <- Will do!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Its not maintained, but it allows you to sandbox any website similar to a pwa
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
I have setting set to not show address bar when Launched from shortcut.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Useless for now, but good to see hot it would look / act when pinned in fullscreen
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
(Wen darkmode 😌)
-
plowsof[m]
can the blocked domains contain wildcards? 👀
-
cryptogrampy[m]
> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> Its not maintained, but it allows you to sandbox any website similar to a pwa... (full message at
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…28ab3546163fb67f5b60257b05ef87fa81c)
-
cryptogrampy[m]
Once the ui stabilizes, will work on themes
-
plowsof[m]
matrix users can disable 'read' receipts or 'is typing' with wild card url blockers (or with some /etc/hosts-fu in linux)
-
ooo123ooo1234567
why is so important to repeat it ?
-
ooo123ooo1234567
* why is it so important?
-
ooo123ooo1234567
* why is it so important ?
-
plowsof[m]
i get stage-fright
-
plowsof[m]
i always disable read receipts / typing in other messengers, and the matrix devs seems to not allow this in settings
-
plowsof[m]
Element* devs
-
ooo123ooo1234567
stage-fright for your own msgs or for msgs from others ?
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
On mobile you can disable "is typing"
-
plowsof[m]
BOTH -anxiety++-
-
plowsof[m]
ah thanks ofrnxmr , its right there in the settings to disable 'is typing'
-
plowsof[m]
i can plan my evil statements in peace now
-
zounds[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]1> "
f-droid.org/en/packages..." <- Slingcode I think does a similar thing but for your own apps, kinda fun
-
zounds[m]
-
zounds[m]
Fun way to test out apps and then use them from a menu
-
zounds[m]
(If I'm not misinterpreting what the webapps thing does)
-
-
john_r365[m]
^ It looks like the Monero integration for Molly (Signal messenger fork) is going to be delayed due to the bear market.
-
john_r365[m]
Oscar just posted the above update.
-
john_r365[m]
-
john_r365[m]
Just looking at the CCS - Oscar (nym: valldrac) hasn’t actually claimed any of the milestones yet.
-
john_r365[m]
-
john_r365[m]
So it’s been 8 months, work has been done, but now the first milestone is around 50% less than he might have anticipated being paid out.
-
john_r365[m]
Can understand this would cause some issues.
-
john_r365[m]
I guess we’re going to have to get better at this as a community. Ie - hedging volatility risk
-
monerobull[m]
People just need to sell xmr the second they are moved to work in progress
-
monerobull[m]
Obviously not practical for hugely expensive stuff
-
monerobull[m]
But if you have like 4k in xmr and your proposal is for ?? Xmr worth 2k, sell 2k instantly and get it back after finishing your work
-
monerobull[m]
Zero volatili risk in that
-
monerobull[m]
s/volatili/volatility/
-
john_r365[m]
Also bare in mind that the current system doesn’t pay people out until they claim their first milestone.
-
john_r365[m]
So those funded would have to change the payout structure such that they’re requesting a % of funds up front - before any work has been done.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
> <@john_r365:monero.social> Also bare in mind that the current system doesn’t pay people out until they claim their first milestone.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
>
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
> So those funded would have to change the payout structure such that they’re requesting a % of funds up front - before any work has been done.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Or request all up front.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
But no, everybody WANTS to gamble
-
monerobull[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: Nope, that's retarded
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Hasnt claimed any milestones yet development is paused? The past 8 months has been unpaid, how does the price affect anything
-
monerobull[m]
Sell your own coins to avoid volatility, get them back after finishing your work, no matter their price
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
monerobull[m]: And if you have no coins?
-
monerobull[m]
I'm not saying it's perfect but i would assume a lot of people working on monero have some
-
john_r365[m]
Paying them 100% up front makes no sense from the community’s perspective.
-
john_r365[m]
The point of milestones is to have accountability and incentivise output
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
> <@john_r365:monero.social> Paying them 100% up front makes no sense from the community’s perspective.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
>
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
> The point of milestones is to have accountability and incentivise output
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Not true
-
monerobull[m]
???
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
People change milestones and contract as they please
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
And still get paid
-
monerobull[m]
That's not how it works lol
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
"I went to 5 hrs of meetings "
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Was not in original proposal
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
"It took me 6 hours to do my accounting of my hours" ssd not in proposal
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Was not*
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
john_r365: whats the problem? Facts hurt your feelings?
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
<ofrnxmr[m]1> "People change milestones and..." <- Once again ^
-
john_r365[m]
Oh look here, a troll
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
6 months turn into 6 years, 10xmr turns into 100, reviews turn into accounting, shipping products turns into "in theory"
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
I'm not a troll, I'm a sock puppet.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Need look no further than MJ's "dev report" for the insane billing that was not in the ccs
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Thats just the most recent example
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Haveno as well, invoices are funny. No avg sell prices, banking profits, weird dates
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
And no usd amounts for the invoice, so trying to do any accounting is a clown show
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
<monerobull[m]> "Sell your own coins to avoid..." <- Or request maintainers convert all to fiat at time of merge, if not paying out immedietly
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
But as we went over yesterday, haveno sold the bottom when they held through a 50% profit
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
* But as we went over couple days ago*, haveno sold the bottom when they held through a 50% profit
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
203 was their target price.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
They held through 280
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Not quite 30% but you get it.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
s/30/50/
-
plowsof[m]
thanks john_r365 for keeping an eye on things, i forgot about this one 👍️ this is a learning experience for future CCS proposers.. we've seen one ask for 50% upfront and still manage to suffer which i think is the most realistic way of handling things (ideally only for trusted / regular contributors that could probably use direct donation systems like a wishlist (see monerujo)) - MAGIC pays in fiat(or stable coin (kyc), but
-
plowsof[m]
its another option for people
-
john_r365[m]
sgp_: Is MAGIC definitely KYC only for the person raising funds?
-
john_r365[m]
I thought so, but then a conversation at the weekend with kayabanerve suggested it might be possible non-KYC?
-
john_r365[m]
Or perhaps I misunderstood.
-
plowsof[m]
what if i made a CCS that said i want 100$ -> after ccs is funded / funds released , i sell the Monero, and now i have $100 + extra monero in my wallet -> everyone who donated can contact me to get a refund %
-
john_r365[m]
plowsof: yep, going forward with the CCS there will be more requests to get paid out a % prior to milestones being completed.
-
john_r365[m]
And in some cases, if this isn’t requested, it may want to be encouraged by the community.
-
john_r365[m]
I guess the applicability will need to be handled on a case by case basis.
-
plowsof[m]
one example to be weary of is xmrsale, who had alot of amazing buzzwords in their proposal, an easy self hosted monero shop! of course the community donated quickly - then he was awol for 7 months - returned and said some milestone was not possible (it was) and kinda done an easier version.. so a 'case by case basis' indeed
-
sgp_
> <@john_r365:monero.social> sgp_: Is MAGIC definitely KYC only for the person raising funds?... (full message at
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…699d4b2e26c5b356d967c9f5dab9ef680f1)
-
john_r365[m]
Thanks for clarifying sgp_
-
r4v3r23[m]
comply first amirite
-
eudaimon36[m]
Could someone comment on the weaknesses/issues with Paynym as a privacy solution for BTC? I.e., why is Monero still better in light of that option?
-
r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36[m]: inputs can still be connected/merged after receiving
-
r4v3r23[m]
so user still has to manage their UTXOs very carefully
-
r4v3r23[m]
example: you post a paynym online and get 10 donations
-
r4v3r23[m]
you use 6 on those inputs for a tx
-
r4v3r23[m]
any one of those 6 senders can see the other 5 inputs once merged
-
eudaimon36[m]
doesn't seem to be much of a solution at all then!
-
eudaimon36[m]
a friend was making the case that this tech would ultimately make BTC as private as Monero with very little effort (though admittedly by him more than Monero)
-
eudaimon36[m]
one has to be mixing and merging and whirlpooling all day long for any privacy
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Your friend likes to make excuses for using wrenches as hammers
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
"More effort than monero"
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
More effort than cash, efiat....
-
r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36[m]: youre friend doesnt know what hes talking about
-
merope
eudaimon36[m]: Except that blockchain analysis companies have already shown that they can untangle all that mixing and merging, pretty easily
-
r4v3r23[m]
s/youre/your/
-
r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36[m]: yes
-
merope
Think of Monero's ring signatures as non-interactive, protocol-enforced Bitcoin coinjoins that work for arbitrary amounts, and have a fixed number of participants
-
eudaimon36[m]
r4v3r23[m]: lol! that's what I was worried about
-
merope
Except that Monero also hides senders and receivers and amounts for all transactions
-
r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36[m]: and even then its still not as private as monero
-
merope
merope: In other words: if you actually wanted to make Bitcoin private, you'd have to implement all these features on top of it - and you would end up with Monero
-
eudaimon36[m]
merope: Interesting! Didn't know that. I thought one could avoid prying eyes, so long as one made coin-joining a part-time job...
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Monero is just bitcoin done right.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Digitial cash that actually works
-
r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36[m]: uSe tHe ToOls
-
r4v3r23[m]
or just pay with cash
-
merope
eudaimon36[m]: Too bad that some exchanges will outright reject/seize any deposits if they see any coinjoins in all your transaction history
-
eudaimon36[m]
merope: This is a great comment, and just what I suspected (but don't fully understand)!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
endor00: some mweb ltc is being rejected too
-
r4v3r23[m]
merope: coinjoiners think they are so slick evading blacklists, when the real enemy are whitelists
-
merope
Yeah, that didn't take long at all lol
-
merope
Quite hilarious, in a very sad way
-
eudaimon36[m]
merope: Seize?! WTF? How do they justify that?!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Another exchange will only accept zcash from T addresses (I guess they will freeze if you sent from a shielded pool)
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
eudaimon36[m]: They dont have to. You literally TRIED and PAID to wash your money
-
eudaimon36[m]
My Lord
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
They dont have to justify*
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
You walked in saying "im trying to hide money"
-
merope
eudaimon36[m]: "We have reason to believe that you're trying to hide something, therefore you must be doing something illicit. Prove that you are not, or we will be forced to seize your money as potential evidence of criminal activity"
-
eudaimon36[m]
Jesus!
-
merope
Basically the rejection of the presumption of innocence, enforced outside of a legal court by private companies
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Sir, what reason do you have
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
"Sir, you spent no less than 18 hours on YouTube to try to learn how to use lightning + samourai"
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
eudaimon36[m]: More like "holy shitcoins!"
-
eudaimon36[m]
hahahaha
-
eudaimon36[m]
You guys are a trip!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Well, we use real money
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Honest money
-
eudaimon36[m]
have all of you swapped all your BTC for Monero?
-
eudaimon36[m]
I still have some, though I now focus on Monero
-
merope
Literally never touched BTC, Monero was my first ever coin
-
eudaimon36[m]
once I understood the privacy issue (to the level I do) I adjusted my focus
-
eudaimon36[m]
merope: incredible!
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
0 btc here. I hold 0 of any coin that claims to be money and... (full message at
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…7aad06d844af45b04155d5ab221055d92c4)
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Bitcoin has a hard cap that makes fees 100% unfeasible with the fixed block size
-
merope
Should include 5. Is not a memecoin (cough wownero cough)
-
eudaimon36[m]
lol
-
merope
(Also Monero is public, but not transparent)
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Yeah haha..
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Wownero > Litecoin though
-
merope
* not transparent (by default), * ))
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
🥲
-
eudaimon36[m]
still so much to learn
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Haven charges ridiculous dev fees.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
They have xusd.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
They want to be the first private stablecoin and widely adopted.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
This is insanity. Giving a private company that much power over usd.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Aka dev fee on zcash or xhv = affinity scams
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Im not against dev fees. But I am when you claim to be money.
-
eudaimon36[m]
> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> 0 btc here. I hold 0 of any coin that claims to be money and... (full message at
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…6886e05549f0631ec5b9ea38c9240fd8f55)
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Public addresses and amounts on the blockchain
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
You send me 1$, I read you back your balance
-
eudaimon36[m]
Ah, the most obvious
-
eudaimon36[m]
hadn't heard that term
-
eudaimon36[m]
yes
-
eudaimon36[m]
it took me a bit to see the virtue in tail emissions rather than hard cap
-
eudaimon36[m]
not immediately intuitively better
-
merope
Unfortunately, hard caps have a strong appeal for the "collector" types who want to own things they perceive to be finite, and thus "destined to increase in price" due to "increasing demand"
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Which is baffling to me. Once the mining reward isnt worth it, the network will 'owe all security
-
merope
(See also nft collectors)
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
s/owe/lose/
-
merope
ofrnxmr[m]1: Yup
-
eudaimon36[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: Yes, but this is less obvious. One has to think a bit more. The supply/demand issue is immediately sensible.
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Transaction fees will NEVER cover the block reward. Simple math. Very very simple math
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eudaimon36[m]
ofrnxmr[m]1: Why is this necessarily so?
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eudaimon36[m]
(I'm comfortable admitting I can't do "very very simple math)
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eudaimon36[m]
It seems demand could drive it to where it needs to be once mining ends
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r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36[m]: you will take a finite amount of shits in your life. does that make them valuable?
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merope
ofrnxmr[m]1: Or rather: they *can*, but the coin price would have to skyrocket to insane values, and the average tx fee would have to greatly increase too
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eudaimon36[m]
r4v3r23[m]: lol
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sech1
r4v3r23[m] every shit I take makes me less shitty, so it is valuable to me
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merope
Ironically, BCH's "unpopoular" decision to raise the blocksize limit is exactly what will save it from becoming unusable 30 years from now
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eudaimon36[m]
hahaha
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r4v3r23[m]
sech1: need to cover the polices 'every breathe you take" with these lyrics
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Rucknium[m]
merope: IMHO, the BTC exchange rate doesn't have to appreciate, necessarily. But yes the average tx fee in real purchasing power terms would need to skyrocket.
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merope
It does, if you want the $/second mining incentive to remain constant as the block reward goes down
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-
-
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merope
And just for fun:
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-
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eudaimon36[m]
How the hell do you generate these graphs in seconds!?
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» merope feeling bad because I'm not done writing the bloody paper yet
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eudaimon36[m]
My lord!
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merope
Lol, been working on this for months
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ofrnxmr[m]1
He's fast
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eudaimon36[m]
Ah, right!
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eudaimon36[m]
You mentioned.
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Rucknium[m]
Oh. I thought you mean if BTC were relying on only fees. Yes, to avoid reliance on high tx fees, the real purchasing power of each coin would have to increase exponentially, in step with the exponential decay of the block reward.
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eudaimon36[m]
Though I am still impressed, for a moment you were G*D himself...
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eudaimon36[m]
How did Satoshi miss these facts?
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Rucknium[m]: If btc were relying on only fees, per trasaction on full blocks is somwhere in the 60-100$/ tx range
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Assuming full blocks, 24/7
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eudaimon36[m]
When I heard there would be an end to mining I immediately wondered how that could work.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
eudaimon36[m]: He didnt.
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Rucknium[m]
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merope
> if BTC were relying on only fees
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merope
That's actually the extreme case, which is where I initially started from. Then I worked backwards, and noticed that for most of the emission epochs, the reward will still be too tiny compared to the fees - even assuming the lowest fee levels possible
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Whoever sits on the btc throne doesnt want btc to be money. They want it to he an investment / an asset
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Rucknium[m]
"In a few decades when the reward gets too small, the transaction fee will become the main compensation for nodes. I'm sure that in 20 years there will either be very large transaction volume or no volume." -- Satoshi
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Rucknium[m]
We have 8 years
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Satoshi 1MB blocks iirc were not something set in stone
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merope
Rucknium[m]: Which was not wrong - until the 1MB block limit was introduced
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sech1
1MB blocks weren't even in the original whitepaper
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sech1
the limit was added later
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r4v3r23[m]
"what happens if electricity prices 3x?"
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Rucknium[m]
And Satoshi planned to increase the block size limit
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r4v3r23[m]
"You could always generate your own electricity. "
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ofrnxmr[m]1
1MB blocks mean a Max of ~3000tx/10mins
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sech1
I remember hearing about Bitcoin first in 2010
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merope
r4v3r23[m]: That makes the network even more vulnerable, because it reduces the maximum hashrate attainable by rational miners by a factor of 3
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r4v3r23[m]
merope: the answer to it is hilarious
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sech1
that limit of 7 transaction/second is what turned me away - I though it could never be the real "p2p cash"
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eudaimon36[m]
so interesting
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Rucknium[m]
For reference, here is Satoshi saying that the block limit should be increased over time:
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Rucknium[m]
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ooo123ooo1234567
it doesn't matter who is saying what, give all details about trade-offs and anyone else will make their own decision;
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eudaimon36[m]
ooo123ooo1234567: ?
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eudaimon36[m]
i.e., I'm not sure what you are saying there
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merope
eudaimon36 if you're responding to ooo123's messages - make sure you take his words with a heavy dose of salt. His conduct has been "less than stellar" in many other channels...
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» merope goes back to writing...
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r4v3r23[m]
ooo123ooo1234567: 100%
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eudaimon36[m]
I don't know what his words mean
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Also, language barrier. So if not understood you may just have to read him a few times
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r4v3r23[m]
dont just listen to people, make your own decisions
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r4v3r23[m]
just cause some one fancies themselves a privacy guru doesnt mean you shoud just blindly follow their "recommendations"
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Dont "use monero" because we say so.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Listen to all valid details and make your own mind up.
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Rucknium[m]
eudaimon36 asked "How could Satoshi miss this flaw?" The answer is that he didn't miss it. I provided the reference.
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eudaimon36[m]
Don't have to tell me that. Socrates is my idol.
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Rucknium[m]
And then the Block Size Wars happened.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
eudaimon36[m]: Ooo typed that, didnt quote or reply or tag anyone
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ofrnxmr[m]1
We just transalated for you
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eudaimon36[m]
gotcha
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r4v3r23[m]
eudaimon36: you can try to be cool like mr all star mental gymnist here:
nitter.pussthecat.org/Diverter_NoKYC/status/1462563858950807552?s=20
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r4v3r23[m]
or just use monero :)
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r4v3r23[m]
no LARPing needed
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eudaimon36[m]
LOL!
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eudaimon36[m]
hilarious
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ooo123ooo1234567
<merope> "eudaimon36 if you're responding..." <- comments from people that don't read code / can't answer to critical questions - take as is, comment that not all details were provide to make unbiased conclusion - take with grain of salt; facepalm
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ooo123ooo1234567
s/provide/provided/
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eudaimon36[m]
How about another question: is there already, or will there soon be something like the Lightening Network for Monero?
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eudaimon36[m]
although 2 minutes is much better than 10, it still isn't swift enough for certain transactions
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merope
There have been a few papers published about payment channels on Monero
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merope
But no active implementation yet, afaik
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eudaimon36[m]
I see
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merope
And for small, quick transactions (like buying coffe in a shop), 0-confs are generally regarded as "safe enough"
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eudaimon36[m]
right
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ooo123ooo1234567
merope: wow, 0-confs are safe enough
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ooo123ooo1234567
though, sufficiently competent reply for someone who is working with scammer
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ooo123ooo1234567
* who is "working, * working" with
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eudaimon36[m]
what is scammer?
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ofrnxmr[m]1
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ofrnxmr[m]1
- siri
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ofrnxmr[m]1
* From: siri
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eudaimon36[m]
Why is endor00 "working" with scammer?
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eudaimon36[m]
And why scare quotes?
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nioc
:)
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Stick around
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ofrnxmr[m]1
No need to stir up dust, it will stir itself
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Just have the popcorn ready
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Indigenz[m]
<eudaimon36[m]> "although 2 minutes is much..." <- Might be a related solution
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Indigenz[m]
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Wen bug fixes 🤓
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Indigenz[m]
More of an offramp to fiat afaik
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Yeah, but the wallet is broken lol. I need bug fixes 😕 or properly tested releases :(
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eudaimon36[m]
> <@indigenz:matrix.org> Might be a related solution
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eudaimon36[m]
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eudaimon36[m]
I have now like 6 wallets, and you suggest yet another new one. Drowning in wallets
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ofrnxmr[m]1
You have at least 3 too many if mobile only
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eudaimon36[m]
Hopefully at some point I will figure out which few are the best and dump some of these :)
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eudaimon36[m]
yea, I know, but I keep learning about better wallets
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Indigenz[m]
eudaimon36[m]: I'm a noob I don't even have one ha
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merope
Desktop: offical cli/gui or Feather
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merope
Android: monerujo
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merope
iOS: Cake
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Cake wallet, monerujo, shruum
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Mymonero for android is broken right now and edge is centralized
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merope
Everything else is pretty much pointless
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eudaimon36[m]
I haven't dumped all my BTC yet, though, so we have that
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merope
Right, there's MyMonero if you want to self-host the backend - because why on earth would you use a centralized service
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ofrnxmr[m]1
merope: This. It works with mymonero, probably. Never tried.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
But it wasnt working with lws and was leaking my view key.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
* This. It works with mymonero backend, probably. Never tried.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
But it wasnt working with lws and was leaking my view key.
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merope
Yeah, seen that bug. Not ideal...
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ofrnxmr[m]1
If you use monerujo, make SURE you backup the seed.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
"Backup" option uses a different password than the wallet password
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endogenic
it used to make sense when there was like one person with access to the mymonero server
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endogenic
now who knows who has access to it
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endogenic
i mean like back in 2017 times
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eudaimon36[m]
I use the official Monero GUI with the full node activated
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eudaimon36[m]
that is what I mine to
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ofrnxmr[m]1
eudaimon36[m]: Using p2pool, correct?
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eudaimon36[m]
Not yet; too difficult still for me.
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ofrnxmr[m]1
P2pool comes built into the latest GUI release
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eudaimon36[m]
that is my target, but right now I am xmrpool and supportxmr
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eudaimon36[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]1> "P2pool comes built into the..." <- hmm
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eudaimon36[m]
I set up xmrpool on my main rig running Linux
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eudaimon36[m]
I had Hive OS working for about a week, but then somehow screwed that up and couldn't reconfigure
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eudaimon36[m]
<ofrnxmr[m]1> "P2pool comes built into the..." <- I see that now looking in the GUI on my desktop. Since I have the rig set to dual boot, I could use the Windows GUI with P2Pool after downloading the wallet there too. You think this is better than XMRpool?
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ofrnxmr[m]1
P2pool should be better than xmrpool (no fees, immediate payout)
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ofrnxmr[m]1
The setup confuses me though
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ofrnxmr[m]1
What would you like to do? Where is your node now? Linux or windows, rig or desktop
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eudaimon36[m]
my wallet/node is on my Windows only desktop. My rig has both Linux and Windows 10, from which I am currently using xmrig pointed to xmrpool.
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eudaimon36[m]
(very proud of my noob success setting up the dual boot, fyi :)
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cryptogrampy[m]
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cryptogrampy[m]
fresh grumbles
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ofrnxmr[m]1
<eudaimon36[m]> "my wallet/node is on my Windows..." <- Do you use the windows box to mine xmr?
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eudaimon36[m]
no, I use Linux
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ofrnxmr[m]1
cryptogrampy[m]: Ive been off twitter for a while.. they want doxxing
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ofrnxmr[m]1
But wow. Its hard to understand how people can be so braindead
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eudaimon36[m]
I put Windows on it to use Ryzen Master and other such programs for tuning
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eudaimon36[m]
so I go back and forth (test on one, run on other)
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Ok, so you'll need p2pool startup flag --stratum=0.0.0.0:3333... (full message at
libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…a25724be58bbaad3ba30cc727512b966f17)
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Then on Linux, point xmrig pool section at the lan ip of your windows machine
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ofrnxmr[m]1
192.168.x.x:3333
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ofrnxmr[m]1
Xmrig doesnt need your wallet address, p2pool should use your base wallet address in gui
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
ALSO. Might want to create a new wallet to mine to, as the address is public on the p2pool website
-
cryptogrampy[m]
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cryptogrampy[m]
looks like a fun read :)
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Rucknium[m]
>Not least, the system must protect privacy as a fundamental right, and provide user control over financial data. The integrity of the system must be protected, by guarding against illicit activity such as money laundering, financing of terrorism and fraud.
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Rucknium[m]
Recent U.S. Federal Reserve papers of CBDC are taking a similar rhetorical approach: Protect privacy, but prevent illicit activity.
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r4v3r23[m]
will be more private than bitcoin
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nioc
.lenny
-
ofrnxmr[m]1
Easily