<lindoble> "i.imgflip.com/6pynl9.jpg" <- plowsof: cleanup pls?

nikg83:

Wallets, exchanges etc had more than enough time to release their updates

They simply chose to wait until the last minute

Edit: to update their sw

Just about every exchange and wallet maker was contacted.

Cakes release not coming until the second last day is 100% on cake

Monerujo not coming until after HF, 100% monerujo's CHOICE

meanwhile p2pool supported the fork since April 30th: github.com/SChernykh/p2pool/releases/tag/v2.0

Cake prioritized cakepay and didnt even start working on v0.18 until after cakepay was released

Monerujo has had the update pr's for weeks and simply didnt release

I, personally, released monerujo updates weeks in advance

Termux node also includes latest p2pool versions and has been hard fork ready for > a month

Mining pools who gave a shit, even minexmr was able to update

I thought it was funny how people thought one of the programs that was ready for weeks wasn't because the latest changelogs didn't mention it anymore

Which program?

Oh. P2pool latest changelogs. Gotcha

binance might have finally fixed their wallet, also seems like there is now less empty blocks and the average number of tx per block is slowly climbing back up as well

is the monero wallet updated ?

do I have to update my wallet ?

yea

just go on website and re download ?

yup

cool

when will Kucoin re enable XMR withdrawals ?

I use kucoin accs as bridges to hide funds

no idea, 2 hours ago they were like "sowry, no ETA"

btw

the new monero app

is way worse with antivirus

keep getting trojan something virus

which app?

like the wallet

gui

I also use NordVPN despite the hate on it lol, and it legit deleted the whole zip file immediately

should be about the same as before, could try uploading the file to virustotal.com and it'll tell you the report from multiple antiviruses

like, reason should be something like "miner" cause the wallet itself comes with its own integrated miner with which you can solo-mine with

bullskey[m]: Stop using CEXs

spacekitty420[m4: can I remove the "miner" part

when downloading

prob not

aremor[m]: dont tell me what to do lol

spacekitty420[m4: oh well, ill just whitelist it on nordvpn then

aremor: as long as you dont keep the funds on the CEX I dont see the issue

Isnt virus total useless if the hash of the file is new/has no reports?

bullskey[m]: Well be having losing your money

s/having/happy/

plowsof: everything is useless, virus nowadays have polymophic signature or somethin somethin anyways, like changing their signature at each new download

windows is the virus imo LOL

aremor[m]: you realise using CEXs as a bridge is a good idea right

bullskey[m]: No there’s an equal issue of using the exchange in the first place

use fake emails and make an acc, then use it as a middle man to go cross chain

aremor[m]: what is the issue

LOL

> <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> everything is useless, virus nowadays have polymophic signature or somethin somethin anyways, like changing their signature at each new download

> windows is the virus imo LOL

damn lol

:3

the issue is, you give them control over your rings

And yes, windows is the virus

ofrnxmr[m]: ? for a second

i dont mind

Someone needs a red pill

bullskey[m]: Wrong

No, not for a second

been doing it for over a year

If exchanges control outputs, they can decrease the anonymity of all rings

never had issue

Duh

ofrnxmr[m]: you realise I can just use multiple wallets ?

You realize you have no idea what youre talking about?

bullskey[m]: - KYC

- you are giving profit to an organization that actively works to destroy crypto. You are literally part of the problem

An exchange can pick and choose the ring members, and using monero as washer doesnt work

> <@aremor:matrix.org> - KYC

> - you are giving profit to an organization that actively works to destroy crypto. You are literally part of the problem

kucoin is non kyc

> <@aremor:matrix.org> - KYC

> - you are giving profit to an organization that actively works to destroy crypto. You are literally part of the problem

your second point is clown worthy

ofrnxmr[m]: wdym

if you can develop ?

ofrnxmr[m]: True, people don’t realize these securities are largely Wallet side and not network side

Which part? The ring members?

ofrnxmr[m]: yeah

if they choose ring members

can i not just use a second or third address of XMR

to send it to from the first XMR address

Exchanges, instead of going "im going to use monerod decoybalgo" say "fuck yall. Everybody who withdraws from my exchange will have identical rings, and the real sender will be the only variable"

basically, kucoin -> xmr #1 -> xmr #2

bullskey[m]: You’re the clown supporting companies that are destroying cryptocurrency. You’re the clown.

ofrnxmr[m]: you could just "churn" a few times afterward tho, right? like sending your whole wallet to another wallet and repeat that a few times

spacekitty420[m4: yeah thats what I meant

Identical or a choice of rings that they hand select

aremor[m]: I am using their service because it is the easiest and cheapest path for me. It is not about supporting them. I am not going to make my life harder for something so insignificant

And thats bad.

Why should we inflate the blockchain

Combining outputs is also bad

Especially if you churn a bunch of outputs from different exchanges

spacekitty420[m4: No. They’re not using the network it was meant to be used. They are degrading the network. They should be boycotted for attempting to destroy the network

I use kucoin. Dont get me wrong😂😂.

But i'd never say its a good thing

Its a necessary evil, at best

bullskey[m]: It’s not about supporting them yet you’re still supporting….. who gives af what your intention was when you’re still proficient profits to them…

+ you use windows...

obviously being spied in is fair game for convenience to you

aremor[m]: there has got to be a way out of this no ?

like a solution to that

bullskey[m]: So the health of the network and currency as a whole is an insignificant to you. We’ll go fuck yourself. We’re here for the currency. Not for our own selfishness

Atomic swaps

ofrnxmr[m]: how high are fees on those

s/proficient/providing/

Fee of the shit chain youre swapping to

ETH or btc only rn

And expect to get tornado ETH and stolen BTC jahahaha

lol not an option then

can i not use monerod decoybalgo after I am out of the CEX ?

👁️👄👁️ 🍿

bullskey[m]: Why not

Theres nothing wrong with no kyc btc or eth

ofrnxmr[m]: They’re only out for themselves. A parasite on the network

Hodl forever or something 😂

Non fungible shit isnt monwy

I have no love for atomicnswaps because they dont do anything for monero

They just allow regretful shitcoiners to offload their useless proof of a broken system for usable monero

ofrnxmr[m]: currently Monero and ADA are the main 2 projects I know that wouldnt have an issue with that. However Monero on a higher level.

ahead

way ahead

Using other chains as designed, means monero swappers have to accept tornado cash sanctioned eth

Otherwise we have to support censorship

I am wondering, what if github bans monero code and all

whats next ?

Ada 🥲

Solutions:

Today: peer to peer and pay the real price

Tomorrow: Serai and Haveno should eventually be solutions

like they did to tornado

🫣🙈

bullskey[m]: ??

bullskey[m]: I have a clone if the repo, and im a nobody

Monero isnt run by some head developer

bullskey[m]: Plan accordingly. If you’re not about this life, kick rocks

shouldnt there be a github decentralized

how is there not one yet

Because they get cucked

Like GitHub was bought by Microsoft. Monero tried to move to GitLab, but GitLab doesnt support SSH amonsgt other things

aremor[m]: mate, you do realise this is a slow process. One does not just go into full privacy from 1 day to the other. Of course you can do it. But for most It is a slow process, one step at a time

Self hosting is a pita for contributors, so while its up, we use GitHub, backhub and other solutions to mirror the code

And have backups ready if Microsoft ever pulls the repo

ofrnxmr[m]: is github not just a database ?

bullskey[m]: Step 1... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…f81d4a9782823a39ea5397102fc6f1467af)

<bullskey[m]> "I am using their service because..." <- Mate, you’ve already stated you couldn’t care less about supporting the project. So I couldn’t care less about what your needs are. I will not assist you on continuing to be a parasite on the project

bullskey[m]: No. "Git" isnt just a database

It included prs, comments etc

History of commits etc

oh okay quite complex then

is there really no one building a decentralized version of github ? sounds vital

there is yea but as mentioned earlier it all comes down to the features github having over the other options rn

aremor[m]: you are making so many assumptions its crazy. I legit just said, I am using Kucoin because its easier for me. not that I dont care about monero project and what not lol. chill out lmao

spacekitty420[m4: oh so none is developped enough for us to actually use

as posted the screenshot to quote fluffy earlier, there is a bunch of fallbacks already set in place so definitely not something to worry about

spacekitty420[m4: right

bullskey: I don't mean to be harsh, but most people who are concerned about GitHub banning do not understand that git itself is a distributed protocol. The first line of the wikipedia page is:

>Git is free and open source software for distributed version control:

Using GitHub is a convenience and is not vital for Monero development

<bullskey[m]> "how high are fees on those..." <- Coin that helps destroys Monero will always be cheaper. Yet you’re here looking for the cheapest option possible

Rucknium[m]: I am not really a dev nor do i understand how these things work. So of course I am asking about it.

I hope you are satisfied. It is a non-issue.

Rucknium[m]: yeah thanks for answering

<bullskey[m]> "I am using their service because..." <- Your last sentence here says that your own selfishness is more important than the project. You’ve made your priorities clear. I don’t know why you expect help from a community you clearly state is secondary to your own Pennies you save on transactions.

Can literally `git remote set-url origin git.samourai.com/monero-project/monero`

Can change where you push/pull your repo to/from with 1 line

I did not get an answer so repost: can i not use monerod decoybalgo after I am out of the CEX ?

It depends what you donwith the money, whether you carry a balance, have multiple inputs with known spends

Exodus wallet uses a custom decoy algo

So say you go from kucoin to exodus to fixed float.. if they wanted to track you, they could.

but why would u even use exodus in the first place? is closed source, same way as windows is o.o

aremor[m]: Unfortunately privacy is quite expensive. I cant really afford it. I am sure the same goes for a lot of people. Its just the way things are. If you have the money and willing to spend it on that then thats great. I personally cant afford it. Nothing against the community. Its not that deep.

He runs windows and uses cex

I dont think exodus is out of his realm

Or mymonero / edge

ofrnxmr[m]: I am trying to move money into Binance from another acc

I dont want binance to be able to view any of my history

Who used to use different decoy algos as well

😂😂😂

No more help for you

ofrnxmr[m]: unfortunate

just make a new wallet

churn into it

or just

send it to binanxe

that's why monero is used

the benefit of GitHub is free CI, we can compile each commit on a largw amount of different system environments

large

"privacy is too expensive" meanwhile linux is literally free and opensource :hyperthonk:

endogenic: thats what I wanted to do but the other guys are saying it does not work

and we can run tests on every commit

spacekitty420[m4: expensive not just in funds

time

bullskey[m]: can you quote where they did?

hold up ill reply to it

i dont use matrix for this room

so i wont see your reply thread

just copy it for me ?

anyway point is, it should work. whatever you're experiencing is likely on your side

spacekitty420[m4: This part….

endogenic: cool so I can just -> XMR from kucoin -> Churn into multiple xmr wallets -> binance

correct ?

I said something along the lines of... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…da8260a4ed0d62339a0fbcf7714c94327c9)

sure

or dont churn

that's the point of monero

What I did say was "using monero as a washer doesnt work"

why?

i'm gonna bounce in a sex

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> I said something along the lines of... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…dca1fc9cc0cceaad0f49b81016c34332411)

sex

sec

Why doesnt it work? endogenic:

ok yeah fine

bounce for sex is fine also

but it's a statistical statement

not a certainty

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> I said something along the lines of... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…e5a805ea8395ce0e473fadab0ff470a27d4)

that's why we want to remove ring sigs tho

but we chose the more mature and reliable option for you

give it time and eventually you will never have to worry about output poisoning

unless the monero project fails under the weight of its own data and tech debt

and social attack surfaces

ofrnxmr[m]: yeah thats the question

tho the second one has already been exploited

But give exchanges more outputs and you do

aremor[m]: i wish

foreveralone moneroismygf

ttyl

endogenic: ring sigs IMO are just security through obscurity but that doesn’t say much about Monero as a whole though

Rings arent just obscurity

But redundancy

nice chat in here

really like the community

even aremor

have a nice one

and thanks everyone for your help

likewise, cheers

Dont be mad at my short reponses . I just havent had breakfast yet 😉

ofrnxmr[m]: No worries you were helpful hahah

I don’t know if the message was meant for me

The need for churn is not well defined and to do it "correctly", well that defined at all

*that is not defined at all

Yes there are some things not to do but as far as getting a "positive" result, shrug

Churning best practices research is something I want to work on after OSPEAD

By the way when we say to churn, does it mean make new seedphrase and addresses, or just withing the same seed make multiple addresses and send it to em

not a new seed phrase

Best way to churn is sending monero to a goo CCS proposal :D

*good

all of it, literally all of the monero o.o

like lochamesh

best CCS to send all of the monero to

<selsta> "not a new seed phrase" <- thanks

nioc: wouldnt they own it then ? how does that work

or was it a joke

idk how that works hahaha

Yes a joke, but also a good way of supporting monero

And a tx is a churn, depending on how many outputs your wallet has

<nioc> "Yes a joke, but also a good..." <- I actually love working in crypto communities, it helped me build morals and make better decisions in life overall

I’m seeing syncing be far faster

<Rucknium[m]> "Churning best practices research..." <- How often are decoys? I don’t see it discussed much

aremor: How often are decoys...? incomplete sentence?

<spacekitty420[m4> "like lochamesh" <- You can elaborate?

aremor[m]: that was sarcasm :3

project was fucking great, like would have loved to see it kept going but it ended up being abandoned unfortunately

few years ago it did that ccs and took funding from the monero community, was one of those very few non-monero ccs and it just ended up in massive controversy

Rucknium[m]: My understanding is probably incorrect. Decoys Defined as == after you send a tx, there are transactions on the blockchain that look like there are additional txs happening, suggesting that the coin and moving to more and more places, when it isn’t. That’s what I’m referring to

s/and/is/

Sort of. Once you make a tx, your outputs (i.e. the "coins") can be freely used by other users in the ring signature, even though they do not actually "own", i.e. have the private key for, those outputs

> <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> that was sarcasm :3... (full message at libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/r0/do…10c8f43958bf12f7f27b3ab6d5d7aa46be9)

sure was

When a transaction is made, decoys are currently selected according to a log-gamma probability distribution based on research in Moser et al. (2018). I am working on an improved decoy selection algorithm:

Rucknium[m]: Thanks. That helps. It doesn’t seem to come up much in discussion

Further, Moser et al. (2018) claimed that the spend age distribution was stable over time, which is one reason why it hasn't been updated in Monero in years. However, even an analysis of transparent blockchains shows that the distribution is quite unstable even from week to week:

Rucknium[m]: To be clear, this selection happens in the wallet? This is important. I think part of the legal justification for attacking tornado cash is that the privacy was advanced by the protocol itself instead of software that was running in end user computers. Therefore they were able to prescribe blame to the service itself

Right now the wallet can freely select decoys. However, they must select a specific number of decoys. Prior to the hard fork a few days ago, 10 decoys had to be selected. Now, 15 decoys have to be selected

Enforcement of a standard decoy selection algorithm at the protocol level is being considered:

s/protocol/dapp/

In very early versions of Monero, users could select basically any number of decoys that they wanted, including zero. This was a very bad idea since privacy could be harmed

gotta have that tx uniformity thingy o.o

amounts werent shielded either

> <@rucknium:monero.social> Enforcement of a standard decoy selection algorithm at the protocol level is being considered:

> monero-project/research-lab #87

Ok and now that I think about it even the ring signature members themselves are Wallet side….. this IMO protects monero developers…. But at the end of the day the government will find someone to blame and it might be end users…. Time will tell

now its like just the fees that is different for some tx

aremor[m]: right, anyone can blame literally anything, like tbh, the whole NK thingy is just bullshit, they can even try to plant evidence and then claim it on you LOL

spacekitty420[m4: But fees are ~uniform, just on different tiers

> <@rucknium:monero.social> Enforcement of a standard decoy selection algorithm at the protocol level is being considered:

> monero-project/research-lab #87

With wallets selecting custom algorithms, it’s best for privacy. Because any uniqueness can be pin pointed to a specific wallet and start identifying people

Im from north korea

I live next door to my master Kim

🤷‍♂️. Boohoo.

i mean, laugh it up by i remember someone actually from nk lurking in one of the servers that was tryna make a fork and getting devs to work for free 😹

Who's laughing

:3

Spacekitty is from Venus

I dont discriminate

Dmartian is from Mars 🤷‍♂️

I just happen to be from NK

ofrnxmr[m]: Unfortunately this is not entirely correct. Wallets are free to choose fees, and sometime they differ from wallet2, the "reference" implementation.

alrighty then x)

For example, MyMonero had fingerprintable fees for quite some time:

>Thus, this difference from wallet2 should be fingerprintable on chain

aremor[m]: Ultimately developers should be protected by free speech. We already know MSFT doesn’t care… and probably lots of other companies would do the same, but that’s not a criminal issue. What they pick up the dev in NL for, we don’t know yet. I’m eager to see.

koe's proposal to make fees more "discrete" for Seraphis at the consensus level could reduce the fingerprintability of fees.

Rucknium[m]: Right right.

The default fee also offered very similar fees to users ***

Algo*

IMHO, we still give wallet software too much freedom, which can create fingerprintable or nearly-fingerprintable transactions. There are various way in which improvements to the protocol have reduced wallet freedom, but we have not yet "sanded down" all the possible tx uniformity defects.

Cake, monerujo, gui, all use the default algo. I assume feather does as well, but like exodus and decoys, they likely use a metadataleaking fee as well

Who here understands Monero fees in detail and would be willing to help me?

xmrack has been looking at fees in detail very recently.

hello monero community, I hope you're all doing alright. I wanted to ask if here I can get some XMR support. yesterday i synced my monero guy wallet and see my funds, but when trying to send some of them, i get a message saying : Error. Can't create transaction: unexpected error: cannot deserialize bulletproof rangesig. can anyone advise what to do? thanks in advance!

agus10: Looks related:

Trezor?

No trezor update afaia

xyproblem.info

Please dont leave out important info..

> <@rucknium:monero.social> agus10: Looks related:

> monero-project/monero-gui #4004

Thanks Rucknium

<bullskey[m]> "when will Kucoin re enable XMR..." <- Just realized, this was already my assumption, but this is proof positive that KuCoin is selling paper monero. They officially have a permanent spot on the shitlist. They’re officially a member of the worst CEXs available.

or maybe exchanges have wallet issues...

Are there any such issues that are known?

exchanges have huge wallets, they will run into issues that most users won't

figuring and fixing this can take time

kraken did mentioned having known issues on their ends and were working on it

it has happened often in the past that exchanges reached out to the team with wallet issues while reddit was making up conspiracy theories

eh..... binance had deposits open while withdrawal closed for like a whole week, at this point that's not conspiracy theories but str8 faxx

I mean you can believe what you want

you said they contacted you or somethin but its still shady af to have let only deposit open, if one is working from the software the other should as well

"if one is working from the software the other should as well" makes no sense

and that was pre-fork

they openly lied saying monero network might make you loose funds

they would also have closed deposit if it was the case

also exchanges keeping deposit open is good for people who want to exchange their xmr for fiat, arbitrarily closing it when only one is broken would not make sense

and since pre-fork, could just have reverted back to whatever fucked up change they did

again, believe what you want

all exchanges are in on one big conspiracy theory

lol

well no

i literally just said kraken said the issue was on their end and were working on it today

as opposed to binance that lied their ass off for a whole week

so no, not all exchanges

let's say an exchange has issues with transactions staying stuck in the mempool, which has happened often in the past

this would explain why deposit works and withdrawals won't

you can't arbitrarily say if deposit work withdrawals also have to work

and they could just flush_tx or whatever the command is

there was no issue on the network

yes, but many exchanges have no idea how to work with monero

so they have to reach out for the simplest questions

minexmr hasnt even started doing the dusting thingy

that was a whole week before all that

and conspiracy theories and there because it has been a pattern over and over again every single time

same back in april, even days before monerun

same way as rn where it was a whole week before the HF

s/and/are/

and its always the same ones (like binance) while the others a bit more legit (like kraken, tradeogre) never having that issue

<spacekitty420[m4> "and conspiracy theories and..." <- And they’re for profit companies with no regulation which means they can do whatever shady shit they think of and get away with it legally. Which is what most of them do. So it’s not a figment of imagination, it’s real life. It’s simply a question of determining which of them is doing which dirt

Ive been in contact with kucoin

No issues.

They closed on 12 will reopen ~ 19

Or earlier if network 'looks' good

sigh

By the 19*

And again, im anti cex but ive never had any issues with kucoin xmr. Ever

Exchanges aren't necessarily lying but just have one explanation whenever there are issues. Polo always does this

Kicking never does.

Kucoin.

I am not familiar with how others do it

But they are lazy and/or don't care

Not the same as malicious

ive seen on over a year was for this hard fork

Only one ive seen in*

there is also often a language barrier in finding out what the issue in the first place is

some exchanges simply have monero integrated better than others, which means they have less downtime

few years ago had an exchange (digifenex) literally lying to a fren checking in with them for me that their withdrawal werent closed while i had my funds there held hostage for 5 whole days, i just gave up, transfered to an other coin, withdraw as fast a possible then went to tradeogre instead

like, exchange literally lied to him saying withdrawal werent closed which there were for 5 days...... they all shady pieces of shit, its not one big conspiracy....

tradeogre is literally cryptonote focused, I'm not surprised that they know how to integrate monero without any issues

selsta did binance fix their wallet?

they did

both withdrawal and deposit open rn apparently

I know, I just checked

It doesn't mean they fixed it :P

😹

> <@spacekitty420:matrix.org> few years ago had an exchange (digifenex) literally lying to a fren checking in with them for me that their withdrawal werent closed while i had my funds there held hostage for 5 whole days, i just gave up, transfered to an other coin, withdraw as fast a possible then went to tradeogre instead

> like, exchange literally lied to him saying withdrawal werent closed which there were for 5 days...... they all shady pieces of shit, its not one big conspiracy....

I don’t see a point in trying to find out which one is honest. Why risk it? They’re centralised services…. Most require KYC…. What is the benefit is trying to find the good one? Just boycott all of them and be done with it

exactly :P

The sooner the entire community gets off of services that have the power to manipulate the value of Monero, the sooner we can have stable price and a revolving circular economy that has zero dependencies on what central banks are doing. I really don’t understand why people have the desire to try to find some compatibility with banks that report to central banks

like i been saying for awhile now tho, even if they dont have a single user on their platform they can still define the price from their fake volume

aremor:

Im not complaining because I have no xmr on kucoin

I trade NGU coins and withdraw xmr though.

and am not saying that cause "but it should go to the moon" or some shit, they literally giving bad user experience, slowing adoption by doing so (which adoption more important than price) and fucking up with having a liquid market which is also more important than the price itself

I dont care if they own 99=9% of eth and tokens 🥲

spacekitty420[m4: OMG someone that understands tj traders set the price

spacekitty420[m4: There’s so many different issues….. it just doesn’t make sense. Leave them and be done with it….

And this is why I ultimately call for delisting from cex

same :3

Traders set the price, meaning, if xmr folks wont use cex, cex gets to paper trade at whatever level they want

This is why I also say we need to completely ignore cex prices.

My exchange rate for BTC... goes by supply

ofrnxmr[m]: No problem. Not mad at you. You know what reality is and simply playing their game to get ahead. I guess I’m more upset at people who don’t know what truth is

Not by cex that want to trade 10k btc for the entire xmr supply 🥲

Moneruns etc simply dont work

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> This is why I also say we need to completely ignore cex prices.

>

> My exchange rate for BTC... goes by supply

apparently thats how serai gon work from what i understood, like liquidity itself on the platform gon define the price from the ratio and whatnot

ofrnxmr[m]: Same here. I’m happy to see it

when both haveno and serai out, if there is an actual push for cex delisting that could be really ideal

A lot of people are pro cex as onramps... and haveno is.. pricey

And serai has its only iggles

imo nothing wrong leaving the onramps to bitcoin then atomic swap that fucker

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> This is why I also say we need to completely ignore cex prices.

>

> My exchange rate for BTC... goes by supply

😂….. the common excuse is that localmonero is more expense. Yeah! That’s the real price! Fake monero is always going to be cheaper. Cause lots of folks aren’t withdrawing it. Of course I can offer you a discount…

Yeah yeah, I wasnt thinking. I was thinking shut down cex, but yea delist xmr fornsure

:3

aremor[m]: Local monero isnt even the real price. Its better, but imo big sellers should set their price to 5k and watch the magicn

localmonero = binance + 10% right? 😛

<bullskey[m]> "how is there not one yet" <- It's called `git`